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Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing => Combat => Topic started by: phil c on June 25, 2011, 06:30:07 PM
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Just a quick update:
WW-II was a bit of a disappointment. We had six pre-entries, but two dropped out due to health problems. The best match of the day was between Ken Towers and Paul Smith. They did some real maneuvering and ended up 3-2 on cuts.
Speed Limit Combat was a brawl, at least in the flying with 4 midairs or line tangles. Louis Lopez topped the list with 2631 pts, Shawn Cooke, a junior who has learned very fast came in second with 2547. Roy Glenn was third with 2321, just edging out Tom Skinner at 2310. The next 4 flyers were in a 200pt range down down to 2037. Out of 30 some matches 12 or so flew hard the whole 5 minutes. All in all, lots of fun flying.
Many thanks to the judges, Stu Henderson, Tony Kubes, Dennis Hastings, and Sam Bolton spent most of the day doing a fine job. They had some really tough calls to make, trying to figure out what happened in several matches.
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Thanks for the report. H^^
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How did the spectra lines work out?
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I didn't notice that anybody used anything but regular 7-strand steel lines. If they had, it wouldn't have proved much, given the 70-MPH speed limit. The real issues will surface in events that allow maximum performance.
The Thursday afternoon time slot was good. A lot less crowded than the old Friday night/Saturday morning thing.
Six pre-entries with four actual flyers is not so bad. Other Brodak events have survived a long time with fewer. In my opinion the practice of giving awards to "The Most Memorable Match" is not so good. I think using actual scores and giving first, second, and third place by points might attract more entries.
I wouldn't mind trying to use a twin, like a P-38, but I need some relief on the hand-flipping. I won't hand-flip a twin under any conditions, especially not in combat match.
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Sorry I missed it Phil. Hope to return someday, when I do I'll bring a P-38 or two. :)
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We was looking for you catdaddy. Maybe next year.
I used Spectra for a couple of matches. The plane has to be trimmed for it, since it weighs about 1/5 of steel. Overall it saves about an ounce- 1/4 oz. of tip weight and 3/4 oz of line weight. The really nice thing about lighter lines is that they don't swing the plane around in tight maneuvers, even when the plane slows down. You can also wrap up 10-15 loops and not even notice any drag on the controls.
Allen and Tom have WW-II on the list again for next year. Other than the low entry it worked pretty well. I can't see how placing trophies would attract more flyers. 2/3 of the entry was just looking to survive three matches and bring home a plane, a lot like real combat flying. Only one high scoring match had any real maneuvering in it. Most cuts were level flight cuts.
There is a fine balance between making a scale-looking plane and decorating it effectively vs. making a very near scale plane with scale deco and being totally afraid of losing it.
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I always thought the Brodak Warbird series of profile planes would make for some slow combat planes. Yes there is a lot of construction for a profile, but they are recognizable. Limit them like when I first read about combat years and years ago. Loops and eights legal. No more than one lap of inverted flight. H^^
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Doc, I don't think limiting maneuvers would help. Something like 2/3 of the midairs come from two reasons: 1) Inexperienced pilots who don't recognize a bad situation developing. 2) Experienced pilots who make stupid moves, either on purpose or by mistake. The other third is mostly pure accident when theo pilots get too wound up in a match and have a brain fart or the plane gets upset by a gust of wind or something.
Most folks don't realize that flying combat is about 8 times as hard as doing anything with one plane.
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I am just talking about myself here, but with the Brodak warbird series, after spending around $130.00 to 150.00 to buy the kit and finish it, the cost is a bit much for me. I like Phil's series with the Gotcha wings and stock covered foam fuses. They're a lot cheaper. And a LOT less work. Just my thoughts.
Bob
P.S. Thinking I'm going to try to get back into combat after not flying it since the '70s, I'm probably going to be that inexperienced guy who screws everything up, just like I do in stunt.
Bob
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Bob, in that case you can fly with me. I recently tried my hand at flying combat. I will say this, I did enjoy myself. Yes, I did get into line tangles. I also crashed in another match. All in all no major damage flying one of Phil's wings. Keep enough props on hand. I broke plenty of those as well. With the help of my son, I'm slowly learning how to fly better at combat. I should've flown at Brodak's but I was keeping busy as pitman. My son Shawn had a great time and I had one just watching. Ken
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I do NOT fly combat but!
They made a mistake on the PA Announcement that World War One (not World War Two) Combat was going to start. My Sport Scale Taube is an early WW1 model so I picked it up and carried it down to the Combat Circle.
I don't know who had more fun, me taking it to the Combat Circle or the Combat fliers who all seemed to enjoy looking at it.
Clancy
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Ken,
Build some WW2 stuff for Brodak's for next year and we'll have a go. I don't see me flying against anyone in the next year unless the friend I invited to come play shows up. Or if you want to comne to play we can do so. Currently running all over the place for various family events. Am currently in Evanston Il. at daughter's house for granddaughter's birthday tomorrow. I still need to get thank you letters written, but "duty calls". And yes, I know they will be adults before I know it and will want nothing to do with this "old fart".
Bob
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There are just a couple simple rules to follow if you are starting combat or getting back into it.
Don't hit the ground!
1) Don't pull a maneuver if you can't see the other plane. Like as not something bad will happen.
2) If somebody gets on your tail make your first turn an outside, wide and low. It let's the other guy avoid hitting you. If you do go upside down try and keep it low so he can fly high and avoid you.
3) Line tangles are exciting. Just keep flying the plane and try to stay near the other guy so you both retain control. If you never follow for more than 3/4 of a loop the lines won't get tangled.
The other thing is TAME THE PLANE DOWN. For your first attempts it should feel like a nice, comfortable profile stunter. Inexperienced combateers almost always turn way too hard and way too tight. Once you get a feel for what is going on(50 matches or so) you can start livening up the controls and pushing the plane harder.
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Thanks Phil. I'll try to keep those things in mind. I'm planning to use ST 34s on the Hellcats and old C35s on the Wildcats with 9x6 on the .34s and 10x5s on the 35s using suction and running them rich. Also, one Hellcat and all the Wildcats will have external controls, also wing mounted landing gear. Wings will be covered with silkspan and then moneycoat. And, of course, .018 braided lines.
Bob
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Hey Ken. Where are you? Are you close to northwest Ohio by any chance? Or maybe within a reasonable distance? Let me know please.
Bob
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(snip)
I like Phil's series with the Gotcha wings and stock covered foam fuses.
(snip)
I have seen the Warbirds listed on Phil's site but I have never actually seen one! Does anyone have any pictures of what they actually look like? (I even asked Phil about this! LOL!!)
EDIT: What are the rules for "Brodak WWII Combat"?
Big Bear
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Bill I copied this right from Brodak, World War II Control Line Profile Combat Rules
Purpose: This event is intended to provide pilots an opportunity to fly realistic-looking planes from the “Great War” to simulate full scale air combat. The emphasis is on safety, having fun, and, as in the real war, getting back home in one piece.
Models: Any profile model(fuselage no more than ¾ in. wide in the top
view) of any WW II vintage fighter/fighter bomber is allowed. The maximum wingspan is 48 in. The maximum wing area is 500 square inches.
Original designs are encouraged. For original designs the fuselage profile should be scaled approximately 1.25 in. to the foot and must be at least 5 in. high. The wing can be scaled proportionally but does not have to be in the exact scale location in the fuse and may have an enlarged chord. The fin, rudder, stab and elevator can be rescaled for appearance and enlarged for stability. Wings should follow the original dihedral profile- Corsairs, Stukas, etc. need to have an actual gull wing. Other plane look better with dihedral.
The following kits or kit reproductions are allowed as designed:
Brodak Mustang, Messerschmitt, Focke Wulf, Mauler. Midwest designs- Mustang, Focke Wulf, King Cobra, etc. Goldberg P40, Sterling Mustang, Yak 9 Flying Models Plans- Ziroli Zero, Combat P-38, Miss BJ(B. Jones) Barry Baxter Plans- Wildcat(Ziroli) Core House Plans 'n Cores designs Any other WW II published profile model or kit you can dredge up that fits the overall dimensional rules.
Landing gear is not required. Most planes fly better without it.
Engines- limited to plain bearing “sport” 40's or smaller. Engines 0.36 and under may use ball bearings.
Fuel system- any tank or fuel system is allowed.
Each pilot is allowed two models. During the regular event on Friday the pilot's first choice model to fly will be on display near the combat circle. The pilots and judges will judge each model(identified by the AMA number) for scale appearance, color scheme, and overall impression with a total score of 0-100. Pilots can supply a single 3 view to help the judges evaluate their model. Zero is an undecorated slow combat model. 100 is a pretty good Profile scale model. These points will be added to the pilot's score for each match. If a pilot switches to his backup model because his plane cannot be repaired after damage due to a midair/linetangle/flyaway crash that lost the clean flight bonus, the bonus points will not be awarded for flights using the second model. The spare model won't be judged for appearance points.
All the other rules and conduct of the contest will follow the combat rules for Brodak's Flyin. 7.3 sec/2 lap speed limit, string cut counts zero, 200 pt bonus for clean match, etc. Flying will start after the regular combat event is done. Depending on weather and time and number of entries flying will continue into Saturday.
Awards- Pilot's winning a match and getting home safe(they got the clean match bonus) will get a Gold Mission Ribbon. Pilots who complete a match with the lower score and get the clean match bonus get a Silver Mission Ribbon. The judges will decide the winners of the “Most Memorable Match”
with each pilot to get the regular Brodak picture plaque. The judges will decide the “Best Crash Award” and the winners will receive the WW II combat kit of their choice.
Flying will start on Friday after we complete the regular combat event until 6 pm. It will finish on Saturday, as needed. Ken