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Author Topic: Combat Plane suggestions  (Read 2301 times)

Offline John_Craig

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Combat Plane suggestions
« on: December 05, 2009, 05:58:05 PM »
Now that I have a few combat engines (35), I would like to build  combat planes for them .  My parameters: balsa, classic looks, good flying, able to run well om suction, Baxter plans?.  I already have a voodoo, a saucer to finish, & plans for a super combat streak. 

Does someone have some other suggestions.

Offline phil c

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2009, 08:20:21 PM »
Netzeband's Equalizer is a classic combat plane that didn't get too much play.  It is a bit bigger than a VooDoo, much thicker wing, and lighter sheeted LE.  Flys very well, but you  might want to extend the booms a couple inches for better balance if you use a heavier(9oz) engine.

If you want something neat for a lighter engine(36X) try Scarinzi's Super Satan(add some 1/4 sq. spars so it doesn't blow off a wing).
phil Cartier

Offline Lane Puckett

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2009, 08:48:10 PM »
Not sure if you want to stay with a boom model but the Flitestreak, Ringmaster, Mongoose are all fun to fly with a 35.

Which 35's do you have?

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2009, 10:06:50 AM »
This is a good chance to design something of your own, like most of the combat flyers of the golden age.

36" leading edge stock.

Engine against the LE.

Chord as required to get the area you want.  Cool-looking wingtips.

Tail long enough to make it balance.

An airfoil like other combat jobs - thin to go fast or thick to turn tight.

Despite the propaganda to the contrary, you don't need a degree from MIT or Purdue to do this.

Most matches are won by engines that start on one flip and run fast & smooth.  Not high-zoot aero engineering.
Paul Smith

Offline phil c

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2009, 11:05:07 AM »
Despite the propaganda to the contrary, you don't need a degree from MIT or Purdue to do this.

Most matches are won by engines that start on one flip and run fast & smooth.  Not high-zoot aero engineering.

Pauls is right in the degree, but I have to say that most of my wins owe a lot to having a better plane.  More span and wing area let you outmaneuver the other guy, as long as the motor is up to the job. Dialing in the controls and trim to suit your flying style is essential too.
phil Cartier

Offline Thomas Wilk

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2009, 07:30:16 AM »
here are the .35 combat planes from the magazines.  All are on my Combat CD.

Apteryx   1972 AAM Aug p15   46.00   348.00   .35   Combat   823   Mellen, Bob
Bell P-63 King Cobra   1969 FM May p18   48.00   490.50   .35   Combat   CF171   Micchia, Vince
Big Iron   1962 AM Dec p23   38.50   360.00   .35   Combat   1262   Berryman, Carl
Black Widow   1963 MAN Feb p23   30.00   255.00   .35   Combat   A-16   Ceriko, John
Blitz   1964 MAN Jul p11   35.00   326.00   .35   Combat   33A   Scarinzi, Larrry
Bumblebee II   1976 MA Jun p47   44.00   348.00   .35   Combat   148   Cartier, Phil
California Girl   1994 FM Aug p76   54.00   600.00   .35   Combat   CF941   Cartier, Phil
Canadian Combat design   1958 AM Apr p29   24.00   216.00   .35   Combat    Moore, Ian & Troyer, John
Chinese Bandit   1966 AM Annl p25   38.00   363.80   .35   Combat   66   Williamson, Harry A.
Clipper   1974 FM Aug p34   35.50   302.00   .35   Combat   CF342   Wiley, Bill
Com-Bat   1959 MAN Apr p14   29.00   250.00   .35   Combat   57   Laumer, Keith
Combat King   1959 AM Jun p18   39.00   390.00   .35   Combat   659   Ehling, Frank V.B.
Combateer   1952 AT Feb p44   33.00   300.00   .35   Combat   252   Young, Harold R. & Huiet, M.L.
Demon   1964 MAN Aug p16   35.00   328.00   .35   Combat   A-34   Wooten, Riley
Equalizer   1961 AM Jun p25   39.00   362.00   .35   Combat   661   Netzeband, Bill F. Jr.
Fast Blasta   1977 MA Jan p25   45.00   480.00   .35   Combat   170   Wilkens, Dick
Fleetwon   1959 AM Feb p18   38.50   440.00   .35   Combat   259   Peru, Bob
Fleetwon   1960 AT Annl p52   38.50   440.00   .35   Combat   259   Peru, Bob
Flexi-Bull-It   1956 MAN Mar p18   36.00   320.00   .35   Combat       Vandesshel, Van
Flipper 1   1956 FM Sep p22   46.00   379.50   .35   Combat   Full Size Parts   Ure, Vim H.
Fox Feathers   1971 MAN Dec p12   37.00   280.00   .35   Combat   91   Shane, John & Brownfield, George
Foxy   1953 MAN Nov p15   30.00   243.75   .35   Combat       Aldrich, George M.
Geophysical   1985 MA May p72   41.00   408.00   .35   Combat   475   Driskill, Larry & Hunton, John
Gotcha Super Slow   1995 FM Oct p48   41.50   460.00   .35   Combat   CF977   Cartier, Phil
Greased Lightning   1956 FM Jun   44.00   0.00   .35   Combat   CF137   Scarinzi, Larrry
Guided Missle   1959 MAN Oct p28   36.00   315.00   .35   Combat   63   Wooten, Riley
Guided Missle   1961 MAN Annl p58   36.00   315.00   .35   Combat   63   Wooten, Riley
Half Fast   1955 MAN Apr p9   32.00   264.75   .35   Combat       Netzeband, Bill F. Jr.
Hatchet   1960 FM Ap-My p28   41.00   184.50   .35   Combat       Scarinzi, Larrry
Killer Saucer   1976 MB Feb p34   22.00   69.00   .35   Combat   2762   Evanson, Howard G.
Kite   1961 AM May p24   35.50   525.25   .35   Combat   561   Mackey, Charles A.
Love   1966 AM Annl p25   37.50   436.00   .35   Combat   66   Williamson, Harry A.
Master Killer   1982 FM Dec p36   40.00   380.00   .35   Combat   CF618   Jo, John
Matador   1975 FM Jul p44   42.00   336.00   .35   Combat   CF376   Lopez, Dick
Missourian   1960 AM Jul p23   30.00   360.00   .35   Combat   760   Umbright, Gene
Needham Combat   1958 AM Nov p10   28.00   266.00   .35   Combat       Needham, Ron
Nemesis II   1972 AAM Aug p14   39.00   339.00   .35   Combat   822   Rush, Howard M.
Oklahoma Twister   1960 AM Oct p30   38.00   315.50   .35   Combat   1060   Berryman, Carl
Phoenix   1991 FM Apr p40   42.00   450.00   .35   Combat   CF853   Baxter, Barry
Pirate   1955 FM Jun p11   0.00   0.00   .35   Combat       
Quicker   1957 MAN Mar p14   36.50   328.50   .35   Combat   18   Wooten, Riley
Quicker   1960 MAN Annl p54   36.50   328.50   .35   Combat   91   Wooten, Riley
Raunchy   1964 MAN Apr p25   35.00   353.50   .35   Combat   A-30   Maers, James
Raven   1971 MAN Jun p19   28.00   266.00   .35   Combat   Full Size Parts   Melhuish, Ross
Riot-Act   1968 AM e Jan p16   34.50   342.12   .35   Combat       Longhurst, Andy
Rongeur   1979 MA Dec p32   48.00   374.00   .35   Combat   284   Rudner, Chuck
SCALE-2   1982 FM May p29   47.00   460.00   .35   Combat   CF598   Cartier, Phil
Scrambler   1972 MAN Jan p19   40.00   293.75 .35   Combat FSP01723  Domina, D & Imbriaco, F
Scrapper   1960 AM Aug p30   36.50   307.00   .35   Combat   860   Cowart, Jim
September Warrior   1963 eMA Nov p334   30.00   0.00   .35   Combat       
Slingshot   1961 AM Nov p27   40.00   371.00   .35   Combat   1161   Mears, Jim
Slo-Moe   1970 AAM Nov p34   34.00   340.00   .35   Combat       Silva, Bob
Slo-Motion   1977 MAN Jan p11   44.00   340.00   .35   Combat   FSP01773   Cartier, Phil
Snipper VII   1976 MB Jul p34   36.00   267.50   .35   Combat   7762   Allen, Bill
Specter   1968 AAM Mar p22   38.00   351.00   .35   Combat   368   Hay, Dan
Super Satan   1967 MAN Sep p17   42.00   349.00   .35   Combat   71   Schaaf, Paul H. Jr.
Super Twister   1967 MAN Feb p12   36.00   314.00   .35   Combat   A-64   Berryman, Carl
Super Voo Doo   1981 MA Feb p40   39.50   381.50   .35   Combat   324   Jo, John
Swoop   1961 AM Feb p26   34.00   340.00   .35   Combat   261   Carpenter, Bill
Tyrantula II   1971 MAN Jul p13   38.00   272.00   .35   Combat   FSP07711   Granderson, Phil T.
Whatizit   1958 MAN Jul p16   35.00   785.00   .35   Combat   48   Wooten, Riley
Winder   1968 FM Nov p16   42.00   238.50   .35   Combat   CF154   Prather, Terry
Bee Ware   1977 MAN Jun p27   42.00   311.50   .36   Combat   287   Keeler, Ira B.
Bird of Prey   1990 MA Jan p56   53.75   565.00   .36   Combat   640   Baxter, Barry
Bosta   1973 AAM Oct p79   47.00   483.50   .36   Combat   1034   White, Neal
Checkmate   1982 MAN Apr p53   36.50   332.50   .36   Combat   FSP04822   Jo, John
Faitility   1977 MA Aug p30   37.00   280.00   .36   Combat   196   Buckstaff, Sherwood
FAWF   1980 MA Apr p44   40.75   419.30   .36   Combat   294   Pape, Gene
Gotcha   1981 FM May p35   48.00   505.00   .36   Combat   CF570   Cartier, Phil
Gotcha Psycho   1999 FM Jul p56   48.00   504.00   .36   Combat   CD089   Cartier, Phil
Jerkline Special   1960 AM Jun p36   38.50   375.37   .36   Combat   660   Netzeband, Bill F. Jr.
Killer   1971 AAM Sep p26   34.50   315.00   .36   Combat   912   Mathews, Melvin
Miracle Worker     Combat   1969 AAM Annl p34   32.00   285.00   .36   Combat   692   Blum, John D.
Mirage   1977 MA Aug p30   33.50   385.00   .36   Combat   196   Buckstaff, Sherwood
Ninja   1976 MAN Jun p10   40.00   317.50   .36   Combat   FSP06762   Gimbel, John
Phantasy   1975 AAM Jan p48   42.00   320.00   .36   Combat   153   Berryman, Carl
Predator   1997 FM Jan p75   52.00   468.00   .36   Combat       Mears, Jim
Predator Slo   1997 FM Jan p75   52.00   520.00   .36   Combat       Mears, Jim
Scorpion   1973 AAM May p43   41.00   317.00   .36   Combat   543   Niebuhr, Tom
Toothpick   1971 AAM Jan p24   42.00   294.00   .36   Combat   112   Tyndall, Dick
Undertaker   1985 MA Oct p65   45.75   417.25   .36   Combat   489   Thompson, John
Voodoo   1961 MAN Jul p11   36.00   330.00   .36   Combat   84   Wooten, Riley
Voodoo   1962 MAN Annl p54   36.00   330.00   .36   Combat   84   Wooten, Riley

Tom Wilk

Offline John_Craig

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2009, 10:13:07 AM »
Please remember that these suggestions are for sport & fun. I enjoy building as much as flying.  Thomas demonstrates the problem, so many choices so little time.  I am asking for advice from everyones personal experience.  " When I was young I really had fun building & flying a  ____ but beef up the ______"  I have both the BB & plain bearing ST 35,  an OS  35H, a Fox 36, and a K&B 35.  I have a Ringmaster & Flitestreak to fly.  I need to finish the Mongoose.  Thank you Phil for your suggestions, Gotcha plugger, & Streak III.  A friend has spoke highly of a Half Fast.

Offline Chad Hill

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2009, 05:55:30 PM »
G21 35:

1) Nemesis 2: Easy to build, high performance. Probably the best all-around balsa combatter of the era.
2) Guillotine: Slower, but a real tight-turner. Use spruce for the 1/4" L.E. Flies good with or without the flaps.
3) Bosta: Super performance for the era, but very labor intensive for a combat bird.
4) VooDoo: Use a Nemesis 2 stab and booms. Use a bladder. Simple and flew well.

36X or ST 35C:

1) Sneeker: Long boom version. Good all-around performer.
2) Tyrantula 2: Great performance. Make the two outboard center section ribs a thicker airfoil so that a bladder tube can be used. The pacifier pod weakened the structure. I added a small L.E. plywood doubler in the center section behind the 1/4" spruce L.E.
3) Super Satan: I never flew one, but they say it was super for the time. Looks very labor intensive from the plans for a combat bird, though.

Just my 2 cents...


Chad Hill

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2009, 07:55:08 PM »
4 cents, counting mine.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Leonard Rennick

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2009, 10:41:35 PM »
Chad,

The Super Satin is a piece of cake now. Lazer Works has most of the balsa parts lazer cut for less than $15, the only balsa they don't supply is the LE, TE, and sheeting. Plywood booms are included, and I believe the bell crank mount. Then all you need is a set of plans from Barry, and some hardwood mounts

Leonard
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Offline Chad Hill

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2009, 06:58:27 PM »
Leonard, put that OS 35 AX on a Fast bird and tell us about it...

Chad

Offline Leonard Rennick

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2009, 11:45:58 PM »
Chad,

I'm waiting for a wide open venturi, hope to have it soon.

Leoanrd
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2009, 08:36:03 AM »
The empty carb hole isn't big enough?
Paul Smith

Offline Chad Hill

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2009, 03:12:04 PM »
Leonard, I sent you an e-mail. Try the nylon spacers in the hardware section at Lowe's. You can fly it tomorrow in that wonderful 80 degree weather and report back by sunset D>K

Chad

Offline Leonard Rennick

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2009, 09:44:57 PM »
Chad,

Received the WFO venturi for the 35AX and ran it today, results were about the same as an old Nelson on the same plane. The only real difference  is the OS gets better milage. Plane was an old Viko fast, fuel was 10% nitro, 22%oil, and a 9x6 Taipan, speed was 106mph. Engine ran good the whole time. I think the engine will pull a bigger prop unlike the Nelson, so I thing I can get a little more speed out of it with a 9x7 or 8x8. Plus I could always add more Nitro., and cut down a little on the oil. I also ran an old  Voodoo today with a G21 35, which hit 107mph with the same fuel and a 9x7 prop.

Leonard
Leonard Rennick AMA 865846

Offline Chad Hill

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2009, 07:28:56 PM »
Leonard, thanks for the update. How did the speed hold up in the turns? I wonder how the 35AX would do with a Schimitar 8-6 or APC 8-6? Maybe 8-7s?

Some of the guys here scoffed when I said I remember getting 110 with Voodoos using G21s. I know that was with 8-8s, back in the days when some thought flat out speed was important (laugh), but it might have been on .015 lines instead of .018.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2009, 10:00:46 AM »
Is your times/speed with or without a streamer.  We would shoot for speeds between 110-115 mph without the streamer.  Still get 100+ with it.  The Tigres were the engine in this area for awhile.  Still used Fox's for awhile and still do.  HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Bob Furr

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2010, 02:12:43 PM »
The first question in this string was about what to build for combat.  Honestly it is hard to beat a Yankee Nipper and the plans are available on the Brodak site as a download.   Some good construction ideas if you want to try foam wings and the wing is about the right size for the engines you are running.
Bob

PS  If you find cutting your own foam a bit daunting there are some great wings to be had from others on this board... I just enjoy the aspect of doing it all myself.

Offline phil c

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2010, 03:32:55 PM »
How big is the shaft on the 35AX?  if it is still 12 mm it may not last too long running wide open in a combat plane.  The G-21's would break 2-3 flights after you got a couple of really sensational runs.  One excellent run in the first round, then a couple runs with trouble setting the needle valve, and then blooey.
phil Cartier

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2010, 08:13:30 PM »
How big is the shaft on the 35AX?  if it is still 12 mm it may not last too long running wide open in a combat plane.  The G-21's would break 2-3 flights after you got a couple of really sensational runs.  One excellent run in the first round, then a couple runs with trouble setting the needle valve, and then blooey.

I've heard that a lot, and don't doubt you for a second, but I have a hard time understanding why.  My brother and I used Tiger G21s in combat for several years and never broke one.  Used to blow Foxes with regularity, from Blackheads to 36X's to Rat Race .40s.  After them, the Tigers seemed bulletproof.  We used pacifier pressure, generally ran 9x7 or 8x8 props, maybe the revs weren't as high. 
--Ray 
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Offline Leonard Rennick

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2010, 12:29:58 AM »
Yes, the shaft on the AX is still 12mm. As for the G21's I broke a few of those myself, but I always figured it was the Dremel work I did on them. All in all the only issue I had with the G21's, were the stock bearings.

Leonard
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Offline phil c

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Re: Combat Plane suggestions
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2010, 06:23:20 PM »
from what I understand about single piston, overhung shaft engines, they have critical vibration frequencies.  You can see this when you run up a Fox 35 or almost any RC engine.  They hit a vibration peak around 7000-7500 rpm, and again around 15,000 rpm(Fox 35's generally won't go that high).  I suspect the Tigre's had the same problem.  A good one would be running right in the 14-16000 range.  The vibration  can fatigue the crankshaft really quickly.  The Fox MkIII, and IV also needed crankshaft work(polishing out the machine marks on the inside and around the port) to help keep them from breaking.
phil Cartier


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