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Author Topic: What defines a "Classic Plane"?  (Read 1323 times)

Offline Jim Carter

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What defines a "Classic Plane"?
« on: February 22, 2013, 11:44:08 AM »
Howdy y'all!  Please don't anyone be upset with me but I was wondering what defines a "classic plane" i.e. Old Time, Nostalgia 30?  I'm sure it has been written out in the past but I missed it and I couldn't find the definition.  For example what catagory would a Ringmaster S-1 be .... how about a Bi-Slob ....or say a Novi III ....??  What about a design like the Ruffy or Skylark that has been "upgraded" i.e. scratchbuilt using more modern techniques and materials, how would it be classified??  I ask this because I've scratchbuilt a Sig Banshee but I made foam cores for the wing then I scratchbuilt a Ringmaster S-1 variant but I goofed and cut the foam core backwards, that is the leading edge trails back and the trailing edge is straight (boy did I goof that setup).  Nevertheless I went ahead and sheeted the wing and used it.  It still flew just fine but it definately looks different from the original Ringmaster and my Banshee flies just fine and pulls like crazy with the OS 40FP providing the pull. 

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: What defines a "Classic Plane"?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2013, 12:37:21 PM »
"Classic", "Nostalgia" and "Old Time" all mean whatever you want them to, unless you're going to enter a competition.

PAMPA has rules for "Classic Stunt", "Nostalgia 30 Stunt", and "Old Time Stunt" on their web page.  Those rules define what is what, for those events: http://www.control-line.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=81.

I'm pretty sure that your planes aren't legal for competition in any of the categories above.  I know that an S-1 Ringmaster would be eligible for Old Time Stunt, because it was marketed before the cut-off date (December 31, 1952).  But the rules for OTS say that you cannot make changes that alter the aerodynamics or (I think -- check the rules) the appearance of the plane.  Your foam wing on the S-1 violates that unless it replicates the droop in the covering between ribs; your swept-back wing certainly violates that.

Without looking at the rules for Nostalgia 30, I'm pretty sure that the foam wing rules that out, too, unless you could find proof that someone made a foam wing or completely sheeted Banshee prior to its cutoff date.

CHECK THE RULES.  Then you'll know.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Jim Carter

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Re: What defines a "Classic Plane"?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2013, 12:51:04 PM »
Thanks.  I had looked at this page a while ago but I didn't remember where I had seen it.  Good stuff!!  Still have a couple of questions though.  I'll post'em later I s'pose!!

Offline RandySmith

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Re: What defines a "Classic Plane"?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2013, 01:28:15 PM »
Page 1 of 2
PAMPA Rules for Classic Stunt
July 1, 2009 and 2010 PAMPA Nostalgia 30 Rules
1.0 Applicability:
All pertinent AMA regulations (see sections titled Sanction Competition and
General in AMA Rule Book), the General Control Line Rules, and Control Line Aerobatics Rules
shall be applicable except as specified below. Any deviations from the above or those specified
below should be clearly spelled out in contest advertisements.
1.1.
The Classic Stunt event will use scoring appropriate to the vintage of the event, including the
inclusion of Pattern Points.
1.2.
If Classic Stunt is run as a combined event with the Nostalgia 30 event, with separate sets of
awards, the contestant entering a Classic-eligible airplane will have to make the decision of
which event (s)he will be entering, prior to the start of the event.
2.0 Philosophy:
As the years prior to January 1, 1970 represent the heart of the evolutionary
development of the Control Line Precision Aerobatics event, and as that era and those airplanes have
great meaning to flyers about these significant aircraft which are the core of today’s stunt event, and as
those flyers are desirous of an event, fashioned around those aircraft, to bring together Stunt modelers
to once again engage in friendly competition, camaraderie, and nostalgic reflection on the era; then let
it be resolved the following rules will define such a competition, and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED
THAT IF ANY RULE SHALL CONFLICT WITH THE ENJOYMENT OF THE EVENT AT SUCH A
COMPETITION, THAT CONFLICT SHALL BE RESOLVED SO AS TO PROVIDE THE GREATEST
POSSIBLE PARTICIPATION AND PLEASURE FOR ALL INVOLVED.
3.0 Model Requirements:
The purpose of the event is to encourage the construction and flying of control
line stunt models designed, published, or kitted prior to December 31, 1969. Any design may be
entered, provided the contestant has convincing evidence of the designs’ compliance. Challenged
contestants may show dated published plans, magazine construction article, dated photographs and/or
letters of confirmation of the date of the design. Plans of un-kitted, un-published designs must be
made available to the PAMPA membership.
3.1. Eligible Designs:
It is expected that the contestants will comply with the spirit of the event and
enter only qualifying models which, as closely as possible, accurately reflect the aerodynamic
layout and appearance of the original model. In order
to assist the judges, it is suggested that the
contestants provide reasonable proof that the model presented was actually designed, published,
or kitted during the period of eligibility as defined in Paragraph 3.0 above. This proof could include
kit plans, magazine articles and/or plans, photographs and documentation signed by the original
designer. It is suggested that the judges ask the
contestant if any changes have been made to the
model presented.
3.1.1.
The PAMPA Executive Council may act as an approving body
for designs meeting the
criteria above, but not necessarily published or kitted. The proof of eligibility is with the
presenter of such designs for eligibility. The PAMPA Secretary will establish a list of such
designs presented for approval, and approved.
The list will be updated annually and will be
available to all, via PAMPA Products and/or the PAMPA website.
3.1.2.
Eligible Designs which receive no Appearance Points:
Contestants may enter models
which they have not constructed themselves. However, they will not be awarded
appearance points for such a model.
3.2. Mufflers:
The use of mufflers is encouraged and will generally be required at most contest sites.
Event sponsors are encouraged to state in their advertising circulars as to such requirements.
The use of mufflers will not be discriminated against and affect either appearance or fidelity points.
4.0 Material and Modifications:
Models which more closely reflect the construction and finish of the
original airplane will receive superior awards
during appearance judging. Although a foam core-winged
model of an aircraft which originally was of I-Beam
construction is acceptable it could be expected to
receive fewer appearance/fidelity points than an equally constructed and finished model of the same
aircraft using materials more closely reflecting those of the original.
5.0 Fidelity Points:
Fidelity Points from 0 to 20 will be awarded for fidelity to the concept of the original
design and to the spirit of the event. Obvious distortions of the original design of any eligible model to
gain an actual or perceived performance advantage over
the original design will also be subject to
reduction of fidelity points. Again, the decision as to the level of distortion and the penalty appropriate
for such will be at the discretion of the on-site officials and not subject to dispute.
5.1.
Fidelity points may or may not be awarded at any given event, at the Contest Director’s discretion.
Advertising for such contests should note whether or not such fidelity will be judged and awarded.
6.0
Appearance Points: Appearance points, from 0 to 20,
per current AMA Precision Aerobatics rules, will
be awarded prior to
the contestant’s first flight. It is suggested that all
models be judged together as the
first official act of competition. This allows the greatest possible accuracy of comparison for judging and
also will showcase these attractive models for photo opportunities. Appearance will be assigned by
appearance judges based on the level
of craftsmanship, finish,
and overall beauty of the models.
6.1.
If Fidelity Points (Para 5.0 above) are not awarded separately (Para 5.1)
, then the awarding of
Appearance Points should include some consideration for the fidelity of the model.
7.0 Trimming Adjustments:
Trim devices, such as adjustable tip weights, leadouts and replaceable
landing gear which allow the entrant to adapt to the contest site and conditions are allowable.
This would not allow the substitution of
tricycle gear for a conventional gear
, or vice versa, however such
alteration of the original design would be subject to Paragraph 5.0 above.
8.0 AMA Safety Rules
: All current AMA safety and general competition rules will apply.
9.0 Rule Change Procedure
: The procedure for changing, amending or adding rules is similar to the
procedures used by AMA, but are specific to PAMPA events (Old Time Stunt, Classic, Nostalgia 30).
Rules change procedures and forms are available from PAMPA Products.


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