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Author Topic: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?  (Read 2727 times)

Offline Chris Lambdin

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VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« on: August 09, 2022, 04:15:37 PM »
I’ve got an OS 20 FP sitting on the bench. Which one of these planes would you build for a stunt trainer?

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2022, 06:12:08 PM »
  If built straight with some attention to small details, they are both quite capable.   I'll continue to add, that the Flight Streak is the only one that is classic legal if you ever wanted to fly it in Classic competition. The Skyray .35 is no where near old enough.
  I'll add this also. If you are just starting out, there is no magic airplane, just the model that you may have on hand or have some sort of attraction to. One won't make you an expert stunt pilot overnight and neither will the other. They both will teach you to build straight and accurate, and along the way, you will learn to repair them both. Crashing is in your future, so get used to the idea. How much you crash is up to you. If I had to chose between the two on that basis along, I would suggest building the Shyray.35. The ones I crashed when they came out and the ones I see others crash, they just seem to be able to take the abuse better and repair easier. The kit can be cloned easily and airplanes produced pretty quickly depending on how much finish you put on them. They both can be modified  for better performance and such, but you are not ready for that. You just need to build the model, then learn how to fly it, then start learning the tricks and your skill and confidence builds.

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   Dan McEntee
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Offline bill bischoff

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2022, 07:50:50 PM »
They both have the same airfoil (really!). The Skyray has a longer fuselage than the Flite Streak, so it will be smoother flying, and have more room for a fuel tank.

Offline Joe Ed Pederson

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2022, 12:00:38 PM »
I've never built or flown a Flite Streak, but what I find aggravating about the Skyray .35 is that you end up throwing away all the plywood ribs, then have to make your own balsa ribs.

I added the wire landing gear from the Banshee/Twister kit to have a regular two wheel landing gear.  You can order the bent wire landing gear from Sig for $3.72 https://sigmfg.com/collections/sig-c-l-kit-parts.  Be careful in mounting this gear so that it doesn't interfere with mounting the fuel tank.   Because of how I how I mounted the wire gear I'm limited to a 2 ounce plastic clunk tank that gives about a 5 1/2 minute run on my FP .20.  Mine weighs 32 ounces which isn't real light nor real heavy.  It flies well when you set her to fly between 4.8 to 5.0 second laps

If you do use the Banshee/Twister wire landing gear, do as Dan McEntee suggested to me.  Put another brass tube over the 1/8" I.D. brass tube to strengthen the wire going through the fuselage.   The wire gear is two piece and the wire that goes into the fuselage comes bent a little less than 90 degrees so you'll need to but it in a vice and make it a 90 degree bend.  Even with the wire bent 90 degrees in order to get the wire to lay flat against the side of the fuselage, the inner 1/8" I.D.  brass tube will have to be a good deal shorter than the width of the fuselage and the outside tube will also be narrower than the width of the fuselage.

Plusses for the balsa rib wing Skyray .35

1.  It is tough.  I've crashed four times (I think) and have never damaged the wing.  I covered the entire fuselage with light fiberglass and Zap
Z-Poxy .  With the fiberglass I've had a couple of hairline vertical cracks in the fuselage right behind the wing, but nothing worse.  Thin CA was all that was needed.   I used the materials from the kit to make the fuselage and tail.   All crashes on grass, of course.
2.  It is simple to build.  I didn't even taper the fuselage because it was designed to balance with a Fox .35 and the FP .20 with a stock muffler is considerably heavier.  I still had to add a little tail weight.
3.  If you use spruce or bass wood for the spar, you can cover with Monokote/Ultracote.
4.  I left the wing tips square like the Twister which eliminated the need to build a wing tip box.  Just put a piece of ply with a blind nut on the last rib and bolt the lead on the outside of the square tip.
5.  It is hard to get emotionally attached to such a simple utilitarian model, which makes taking chances easier and crashes aren't the end of the world or the end of hundreds of hours of labor.
6.  With the control rod in the outer hole of the bellcrank and in the outer hole in the control horn, she is not skitish or twitchy. 

I bought a Brodak Shark 402, but haven't built it yet.  I bought it because I wouldn't have to throw some of the kit away and have to make my own set of ribs.  The only downside (to me) is that the kit has a single wheel landing gear.  I prefer two wheel landing gears.  The Shark 402 would be perfect for the FP .20.  It's wing has the same number of square inches as the Skyray .35.

Joe Ed Pederson

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2022, 08:09:13 PM »
   Hi Joe;
     No need to throw away those plywood ribs. They can used as is or used as templates first and then used in a model. They are light ply and with the spacing on the ribs, they don't add up to a lot of weight. They are light ply for a reason and that is to take the shock of a sudden meeting with the ground. If you have some ply ribs left over, weigh them in a stack just for a reference. Then weigh some of the same ribs cut from 1/8" or 3/16". The model is designed to fly, crash, survive maybe, and repaired easily. I like the classic look of the Flite Streak, and to get the same flavor from the Skyray .35, just add some tapered sheet balsa fixed flaps and there you are!  I'm in agreement with you on all the other mods, such as two wheel gear and such. It just makes life easier. Just keep doing what you are doing and move along at your own pace. I think you are doing OK.
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
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Offline Chris Lambdin

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2022, 03:43:15 PM »
Thanks for all the replies! Looks like it will be a Skyray.

Offline Colin McRae

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2022, 10:07:41 AM »
I've never built or flown a Flite Streak, but what I find aggravating about the Skyray .35 is that you end up throwing away all the plywood ribs, then have to make your own balsa ribs.

I added the wire landing gear from the Banshee/Twister kit to have a regular two wheel landing gear.  You can order the bent wire landing gear from Sig for $3.72 https://sigmfg.com/collections/sig-c-l-kit-parts.  Be careful in mounting this gear so that it doesn't interfere with mounting the fuel tank.   Because of how I how I mounted the wire gear I'm limited to a 2 ounce plastic clunk tank that gives about a 5 1/2 minute run on my FP .20.  Mine weighs 32 ounces which isn't real light nor real heavy.  It flies well when you set her to fly between 4.8 to 5.0 second laps

If you do use the Banshee/Twister wire landing gear, do as Dan McEntee suggested to me.  Put another brass tube over the 1/8" I.D. brass tube to strengthen the wire going through the fuselage.   The wire gear is two piece and the wire that goes into the fuselage comes bent a little less than 90 degrees so you'll need to but it in a vice and make it a 90 degree bend.  Even with the wire bent 90 degrees in order to get the wire to lay flat against the side of the fuselage, the inner 1/8" I.D.  brass tube will have to be a good deal shorter than the width of the fuselage and the outside tube will also be narrower than the width of the fuselage.

Plusses for the balsa rib wing Skyray .35

1.  It is tough.  I've crashed four times (I think) and have never damaged the wing.  I covered the entire fuselage with light fiberglass and Zap
Z-Poxy .  With the fiberglass I've had a couple of hairline vertical cracks in the fuselage right behind the wing, but nothing worse.  Thin CA was all that was needed.   I used the materials from the kit to make the fuselage and tail.   All crashes on grass, of course.
2.  It is simple to build.  I didn't even taper the fuselage because it was designed to balance with a Fox .35 and the FP .20 with a stock muffler is considerably heavier.  I still had to add a little tail weight.
3.  If you use spruce or bass wood for the spar, you can cover with Monokote/Ultracote.
4.  I left the wing tips square like the Twister which eliminated the need to build a wing tip box.  Just put a piece of ply with a blind nut on the last rib and bolt the lead on the outside of the square tip.
5.  It is hard to get emotionally attached to such a simple utilitarian model, which makes taking chances easier and crashes aren't the end of the world or the end of hundreds of hours of labor.
6.  With the control rod in the outer hole of the bellcrank and in the outer hole in the control horn, she is not skitish or twitchy. 

I bought a Brodak Shark 402, but haven't built it yet.  I bought it because I wouldn't have to throw some of the kit away and have to make my own set of ribs.  The only downside (to me) is that the kit has a single wheel landing gear.  I prefer two wheel landing gears.  The Shark 402 would be perfect for the FP .20.  It's wing has the same number of square inches as the Skyray .35.

Joe Ed Pederson

Joe, I just noticed in your post that you have a Brodak Shark 402 kit. I built that same kit about a year ago. A few of my observations.

Mine uses an OS 25 LA and a 2.5 oz uniflow tank. In my opinion the 20FP might be underpowered. I started out w/ a 9-6 prop. Model flew pretty fast and sagged a bit during stunts. I tried a larger 10-5 prop and that made all the difference for me. A little slower, but plenty of power during stunts.

I also do not like the single wheel design. Brodak makes a standard aluminum landing gear for profile models. That is what I have.

Good luck w/ your Shark.

Offline Joe Ed Pederson

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2022, 05:38:21 PM »
Colin,

That's a nice looking Shark 402.  I have both an FP .20 and an LA .25.  I think they both have the same mounting bolt pattern.

 The Skyray .35 has 400 square inches and the Shark is nearly identical at 402, so if they are pretty close in weight it would seem they would require about the same power.     My FP .20 Skyray weighs 32 ounces.  With an APC 9 x 4 she will do as quick as 4.8 sec laps on 59 foot lines.  If I launch at 12,000 rpm she does 5.0 sec laps and that is easily fast enough for the manuevers I can do so far.  I can't do the whole pattern yet.

There are several planes I want to build.  The priority at this time are the Old Time Stunt models.  I'm working on a Brodak Barnstormer with the wings done except for lead out guide and wingtips.  I'm working on carving the fuel tank hatch and the rear hatch on the fuselage.  I'm also going to build a couple of Jameison Specials from plans.  I bought an old way overweight 47 ounce Jameison Special with an LA .40, that despite the weight flies really well.

So, unless I destroy the Skyray .35 it will be a while before I get to the Shark 402.

Joe Ed Pederson

Offline Chris Lambdin

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2022, 11:21:16 AM »
Here’s a question. I see some talking about building the Skyray 35 with no rudder or engine offset, is this the way to build it?

Offline Joe Ed Pederson

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2022, 12:56:52 PM »
Here’s a question. I see some talking about building the Skyray 35 with no rudder or engine offset, is this the way to build it?

Chris,

That is the Brett Buck basic trim for the Skyray .35.    Here is the link to the complete Brett Buck guide to building a Skyray .35: https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/new-member-and-skyray-35-question/msg546629/#msg5466296yo

Joe Ed Pederson

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2022, 01:52:39 PM »
Here’s a question. I see some talking about building the Skyray 35 with no rudder or engine offset, is this the way to build it?


  Read what Joe suggested and keep a lot of that in your mind as you get to the point of flying the model. We have learned and figured out a lot of stuff in the last 30 years about such things. As you start to fly the airplane, a lot of that will start to make sense.  A ground adjustable rudder is handy. Making sure it is installed on the airplane straight is really important. Playing with really small amounts of engine thrust adjustments and show you how they affect things. Lead out adjustment is almost mandatory.  You are not going to learn it all on the first model, but you can use that first model to really understand what these adjustments do. What you don't want is a model that is almost flying sideways because you have all sorts of offsets built into it. Your model is more or less actually flying straight when out on the lines, and the easier that it can do that, the better your line tension will be. Along the way, you will also learn about how smooth flying affects things also.
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
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Offline Chris Lambdin

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2022, 02:12:54 PM »
Lots of info thanks! I built and flew CL back in the 70s and 80s and Ive learned so much about what I was doing wrong and lots of little tips and advice I’m excited to try it all again.

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2022, 02:59:25 PM »
Lots of info thanks! I built and flew CL back in the 70s and 80s and Ive learned so much about what I was doing wrong and lots of little tips and advice I’m excited to try it all again.
You were probably doing it right back then.  Right has changed!  I too was out from the mid 80's till a few years ago.  I thought I knew what I was doing until I flew some of the new stuff...silly rabbit.

Ken
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Offline Douglas Bykoff

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2023, 04:50:25 AM »
I am a Flite Streak/Lighting streak fan. Build about 10 in the last 2 years, all electric and I have nothing to complain about. I didn't break any and sold them all to friends who wanted to start learning Acrobatics and they were all highly satisfied.

The most important modification I made was to remove the stabilizer from the top of the fuselage, bringing it 1cm downwards and placing it at a positive 1⁰ angle, which improved stability in level flight.

I used 2 electrical setups: Hobbyking 2836 SK3 engine with 4s 1300 battery APC 9X5 glow prop and Hobbyking 3530 SK3 engine with 3s 2200 battery, 10x5 MHS electric prop.

From the first flight with him I already felt familiar and in the hand of a friend, top in Acrobatics, he was impressed.

The flight was filmed. He had never flown before and he just adjusted the handle.






Offline fred cesquim

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Re: VP Flite Streak or Sig Skyray 35 ?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2023, 07:14:56 AM »
Promo is a great, light, modern, flapped and easy to built design
had this one with the same engine, flies by itself, easy to learn.
this is my model of choyce when i returned to C/L 8 years ago
https://www.apuca.com.ar/Planos/Promo%2025%20PDF.pdf
PDF plan vectorized to be lazer cut.


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