Author Topic: Unique" Classic designs (Read 4708 times)

Bill Little · « **on:** January 05, 2007, 11:21:20 AM »

I, personally, like to not only build a proved well known design, but I REALLY like to build the odd, off beast designs. I like to show up with a plane that has not been seen, or at not very often. Allen Brickhaus's Trianic comes to mind as a great flying, but "never" seen model.

What is a design like this that YOU would like to build along these lines

Randy Powell · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2007, 12:17:27 PM »

Bill, I'd love to build either a Bernie Ash "Supersonic Stunter". Very unique "jet style" design. Big with those swept back wings would be a hoot. The other plane is Dave Gierke's actual Novi II. Dave recently told me that the AAE is NOT the Novi II. The II was crashed with 6 flights on it just prior to the 65 Nats. Only surviving picture was taken after the crash. Sigh... That's why he flew the Novi I in that event. Sounds as if it was quite different from the All American Eagle and pretty unique.

Ron King · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2007, 02:54:24 PM »

Larry Miller's "Rusty".

Unfortunately, it was designed back in the "Everything looks like a Nobler days", so it does bear a resemblance to the Nobler. Larry qualified for the finals in 1966, but picked up the handle backwards, and crashed on his first finals flight. J.E. Albritton took a 3rd in Senior Stunt with his Rusty at the Willow Grove Nats in 1969. These guys were my friends and mentors.

I have no plans, only pictures. Maybe someday....

Ron

EddyR · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2007, 05:28:10 PM »

Ron I believe I have a picture of a "Rusty" but it is going to take a while to find it.
EDIT

I found it in 1969 FM.

Dale Barry · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2007, 08:36:15 PM »

I'd like to see a Sleekster, that's the one plane on my "to do" list that I've never gotten around to. I have the original magazine and have pored over it for years. I've got the plans, but there's just never enough time. I do have all the parts for Sweeper number two nearly completed, since Derek enjoyed the first one I did that Mr.Shaw is so protective of. It might get done this year.

EddyR · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2007, 01:34:58 PM »

Bill are you building the Airon yet? I have a JD Falcon 2/3 done.

Geoff Goodworth · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2007, 08:17:43 PM »

Bill et al

What about Ken Dowell's Angelique. Aussie and Classic! They don't come much more unique.

There are pics of it on Ken's Vicstunt site.

Cheers, Geoff

Bill Little · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2007, 10:54:34 PM »

Quote from: Ed Ruane on January 07, 2007, 01:34:58 PM

Bill are you building the Airon yet? I have a JD Falcon 2/3 done.

Hi Ed,

It's started.

Bill <><

Bob Zambelli · « **Reply #8 on:** January 19, 2007, 07:52:43 AM »

Some of the most unique designs I've ever seen are by Jack Sheeks.

One was a gull wing design called the "Shiek" which I only saw on display.

The other one was a "T" tailed bird. I can't recall the name - maybe "The Knight"?
Flew quite well as I recall.

Bob Z.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #9 on:** January 19, 2007, 08:58:54 AM »

Bob,
was this the one that looked like a pylon racer? If so, I have seen pictures of it in a silver with black trim I believe. What a cool airplane! If you remember the name I would love to look into that one
Mark S

Randy Powell · « **Reply #10 on:** January 19, 2007, 02:56:55 PM »

Mark,

It is the Knight. I've thought about building one since the plans came out in the 60s. Based very loosely on the Rivets pylon racer. Someone built one recently that was in Stunt News. I think that was the blue, silver and black on you saw. The original was white with blue trim.

Ron King · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2007, 07:04:16 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 19, 2007, 02:56:55 PM

Mark,

It is the Knight. I've thought about building one since the plans came out in the 60s. Based very loosely on the Rivets pylon racer. Someone built one recently that was in Stunt News. I think that was the blue, silver and black on you saw. The original was white with blue trim.

The Knight you are talking about belongs to Dave Reyes. He has built a number of Jack Sheeks's designs, including the Sheik.

Ron

Randy Powell · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2007, 03:23:29 PM »

There are also quite a few twin boom stunter. Jack Sheeks seemed to have a soft spot for these with the Torino, Sea Vixen and, what? Bewitched? Not sure if that one is classic legal, but there are many others. May try one of those again at some point. I've built a couple over time.

Trostle · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2007, 03:39:26 PM »

Charles Mackey has two twin boom designs.

The Carousel which has been available from RSM published in American Modeler, Mar 61.

The Junkers Gobbleswantz flown by Bob Randal toOpen 1st place at the 58 Nats. Published in American Modeler, Jun 59.

Keith Trostle

Bill Little · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2007, 12:42:23 PM »

Quote from: Tom Niebuhr on January 22, 2007, 11:37:56 PM

Charles Mackey also designed the "Crusader" boomer. It was in Flying Models

Another Boomer was Bill Suarez's P-38 M.A.N. April '66

Bill's P-38 is a VERY unique stunt ship!

Bill <><

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2007, 07:56:59 PM »

"The Carousel which has been available from RSM published in American Modeler, Mar 61."

Carousel was a Sheeks designed twin boom with rounded swept fins. The Mackey Crusader is the boomer kitted by RSM. How do the twin boomers fly? I think there are some weight, alignment and control system issues that could be rectified by modern technology. I love the Gobbleswantz, but the main gear location is bad, and would have to be changed.

One Classic I hope to build is Riley Wooten's "Texan". Riley said it was hanging in his shop, when I talked to him at the Bladder Grabber last August. Dee Rice was going to conspire to get Dale Gleason to do a CAD drawing off the original and the 2 view from the AAM Annual. Anybody know if that's happening? I'd love to see it in SN.

Steve

Trostle · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2007, 11:00:15 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on January 23, 2007, 07:56:59 PM

"The Carousel which has been available from RSM published in American Modeler, Mar 61."

Carousel was a Sheeks designed twin boom with rounded swept fins. The Mackey Crusader is the boomer kitted by RSM. How do the twin boomers fly? I think there are some weight, alignment and control system issues that could be rectified by modern technology. I love the Gobbleswantz, but the main gear location is bad, and would have to be changed.

Steve

Let's see now. I was wrong about the Carousel being available as a kit from RSM. The twin-boom kit from RSM is indeed the Charles Mackey Crusader.

I am looking at the March 1961 issue of American Modeler that had the construction article of the Carousel. The introduction to the article is attributed to "the plane's designer, CHARLES A. MACKEY". (Capitalization quoted from the magazine.) There might be some confusion about twin-boomers and who designed what because the article shows Jim Vornholt holding his Carousel and his first place Junior trophy from the 1960 Nats. Jim often flew designs by Jack Sheeks. Jim flew another twin boomer with swept wings called the Torino by Jack Sheeks at the 1968 Nats.

Now, I am looking at the March 1960 issue of Flying Models that had the construction article of the Crusader by Charles A Mackey.

So, for the record, the two twin-boom designs, one called the Carousel and the other called the Crusader, were designed by Charles Mackey. The Mackey Crusader is available as a kit from RSM.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2007, 12:08:37 AM »

Keith,

You are now correct. I had a "Carousel", and indeed, it is one of Charles Mackey's airplanes. Jim Vorholt won Jr at the 1960 Nats with his "Carousel". The Mackey "Crusader" is an RSM kit.

Charles Mackey also designed the "Gobbleswantz" that Bob Randle had his Nats win with.

That makes 3 Boomers by Mackey.

Bob Randle had another boomer later on. I can't think of the name right now, but Bob sent me the plans a few years ago. Someone had one at the Nats 6 or 7 years ago. I am not sure if the airplane was a Randle design, or if it was co-designed with Charles Mackey. I am also not sure if it was published.

You are also correct about Jack Sheek's airplanes. Jack's boomers included the "Torino", and 2 versions of the "Sea Vixen".. One CL stunt, the other one was RC. I have the plans to both.

Jack also published another stunt boomer called "BeWitched" in 7/72 FM.

BTW, I talked to Jack about 6 weeks ago. Jim Vornholt moved back to Indiana. He was at Jack's house when I called.

Bill Little · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2007, 08:23:59 PM »

Jack also published the LaDonna twin boom.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2007, 07:46:16 AM »

Steve Said:
"One Classic I hope to build is Riley Wooten's "Texan". Riley said it was hanging in his shop, when I talked to him at the Bladder Grabber last August. Dee Rice was going to conspire to get Dale Gleason to do a CAD drawing off the original and the 2 view from the AAM Annual. Anybody know if that's happening? I'd love to see it in SN"

I will be seeing Dale Gleason this week. I will ask him about it. But I don't think Dale does CAD work. If nothing has been done, I will talk to Riley about it.

More on the boomers:
After the '68 Nats, Bob Randle worked up another twin boom airplane called the "Liberator". It was based on a Charles Mackey design, with some changes. Charley Lickliter did the drawing. I don't think that it was ever published. I have a copy of the drawing. I got it from either Bob Randle, or Charley Lickliter. I saw a "Liberator" at a Nats, I think 2001. I don't know who it belonged to however.

Trostle · « **Reply #20 on:** January 28, 2007, 06:07:09 PM »

Quote from: Jim Pollock on January 28, 2007, 05:43:03 PM

Tom,

Speaking of Riley's airplanes....Does he still have the original Slick Stunt Ship? Does he have the plans for it. It had a wounderful review in SN in the article about the 57 and 58 Nats.

Jim Pollock

Jim,

There was a small general arrangement drawing of the Riley Wooten "Slick Stunt Ship" in the Aug 59 issue of American Modeller. The drawing gives dimensions, rib spacing and a rib cross-section.

It had a 52 inch span, something less than 550 sq in. The fuselage profile was similar to the Nobler. It had a relatively thick airfoil with a nice rounded LE. An accurate replica could be produced from this drawing.

Keith Trostle

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2007, 11:54:03 PM »

Quote from: Jim Pollock on January 28, 2007, 05:43:03 PM

Tom,

Speaking of Riley's airplanes....Does he still have the original Slick Stunt Ship? Does he have the plans for it. It had a wounderful review in SN in the article about the 57 and 58 Nats.

Jim Pollock

Jim.
I don't know, I will see what I can find out.

NED-088 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 02, 2007, 08:08:39 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on January 05, 2007, 11:21:20 AM

I, personally, like to not only build a proved well known design, but I REALLY like to build the odd, off beast designs. I like to show up with a plane that has not been seen, or at not very often. Allen Brickhaus's Trianic comes to mind as a great flying, but "never" seen model.

What is a design like this that YOU would like to build along these lines

Here's the original Trianic Mk 1 from one of my Stunt-Gurus , Bert Metkemeijer:
ST 35 C, 66 ft. (!) lines. 48 oz.

Here's both my Stunt Gurus , Bert and Paul Tupker at the European Championships 1977, with the second 'big' Trianic, the tri-cycle geared Mk 3.
ST G21/46, 70 ft. lines, 53 oz.

Robert McHam · « **Reply #23 on:** March 02, 2007, 03:30:42 PM »

Quote by Tom:
"Jack also published another stunt boomer called "BeWitched" in 7/72 FM."

I could not tell you how many times I read and reread the BeWitched article. It has been a long time thougth. Jack Sheeks said it was a really good ship as I recall. I never saw another built but on several occasions I set out (unsuccessfully) to make a Half A version. I may still have to, do that. Loved the way it looked. Wish I could have seen color photos of the paint jobs it got! This was the buggaboo that earned it the name BeWitched. These days I cannot build bigger than Half A.

NED, that Trionic looks really great too!

Robert

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2007, 10:58:02 PM »

Quote from: Trostle on January 28, 2007, 06:07:09 PM

Jim,

There was a small general arrangement drawing of the Riley Wooten "Slick Stunt Ship" in the Aug 59 issue of American Modeller. The drawing gives dimensions, rib spacing and a rib cross-section.

It had a 52 inch span, something less than 550 sq in. The fuselage profile was similar to the Nobler. It had a relatively thick airfoil with a nice rounded LE. An accurate replica could be produced from this drawing.

Keith Trostle

Riley told me that "Texan" was the correct name for "Slick Stunt Ship". We're talkin' about the same plane. It still exists.

I talked to Dale Gleason at VSC (what a nice feller) about it, and I'm pretty much convinced that he's not a CAD draftsman! There was another Gleason (unrelated) who was a CADman, but he's passed away some years now. So, we're looking for somebody to borrow the original from Riley and make a drawing off it, and the small 3 view in AAM '59 Annual. Maybe TomN would consider it, and offer laser cut kit or ribs, at least?

Steve

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #25 on:** March 27, 2007, 09:42:46 AM »

Ron King
I always thought that J.E. won third with a Thunderbird? Like you I have many fond memories of JE. He could fly any thing great.
Willis

Ron King · « **Reply #26 on:** March 27, 2007, 01:23:57 PM »

Quote from: Willis Swindell on March 27, 2007, 09:42:46 AM

Ron King
I always thought that J.E. won third with a Thunderbird? Like you I have many fond memories of JE. He could fly any thing great.

Hey, Willis. Glad to hear from you.

I was out of the country at the time of the '69 Nats, but have a picture of J.E. and his Rusty from that meet. He may have actually flown something else. I'll try to remember to ask him the next time I see him. He is still in this area and still active in RC racing.

I agree, J.E. was a great stunt pilot. Derrick Berry reminds me a lot of him. They both have that same relaxed nonchalant stance out in the center and they make it look so doggone easy. The plane just looks like an extension their arms.

Take care,

Ron

rob biddle · « **Reply #27 on:** March 28, 2007, 01:04:40 AM »

Hi all,
I wouldn't mind finding out a bit more about Noel Falconers "Gaisgeach", if anyone knows anything about it?

It's in Tom Morris's Classic book, the writing is a bit small to read clearly but I believe it's a 52" span ship designed around an Oliver tiger.

Cheers, Rob.

Trostle · « **Reply #28 on:** March 31, 2007, 04:00:07 PM »

Maybe Ian Russell can add some information here as I believe he has seen the Falconer Gaisgeach, published in the British Model Aircraft magazine in January 60. That is an interesting article in that it included a table of dimensions for about 20 top designs from that era.

I do not know if the plans are available from the X-Plans or not.

It is an "interesting" airplane. From full size plans that I have, it has a fairly high aspect ratio wing - 52 inch span with less than about 450 sq in area. Smallish flaps with less than 50 sq in. Tail comes in around 80 or 85 sq in or less about 20% of the wing. Built up truss spar. horizontal tail sets well above the thrust line and wing. Has a high vertical tail which will give a very distinctive appearance in the air. Has a really nice thick airfoil but with a fairly sharp LE. The fuselage is carved entirely from block. Original had an Oliver Tiger. A good 25 (like an OS FP) on a lightly built version of this should give a good performer. The higher than normal aspect ratio (around 6) might make this uncomfortable in a lot of wind.

Keith Trostle

Ward Van Duzer · « **Reply #29 on:** April 10, 2007, 11:00:06 AM »

Go ahead Bill, I dare you!

Ward

Bill Little · « **Reply #30 on:** April 10, 2007, 03:02:54 PM »

Quote from: Ward Van Duzer on April 10, 2007, 11:00:06 AM

Go ahead Bill, I dare you!

Ward

Hi Ward,

I remember your Stuntwing. I never did get the plans for one, though!

Didn't Red center his line spool with the spinner for his "landing" at the Mirror Meet?

Bill <><

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #31 on:** April 12, 2007, 05:36:36 PM »

OK! There is a really offbeat design in Flying Models Sept. 69 called the Hi-Lo stunter designed by Paul Palanek. I have never seen one at a contest or for that matter anywhere, and probably for good reason. The landing gear slopes forward at a fair angle which puts the wheels about under the firewall. The wing is offset about 2 to 2-1/2". But, it is a really cool looking plane, and should be easy to build, as there are few curves in the fuse, which are mostly straight sheet angles on formers. On the + side, it has a fair amount of wing area, and a fairly thick airfoil. Might be a little hard to land on hard surface, but would be just fine on my grass circle. Have any of you guys built one of these?