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So, I was finally able to start building my Don Shultz Avenger 35 (specifically for VSC next year) on Sunday. Cut out templates and started selecting wood and such. I think I'll start with the fuse since it's fairly complicated and I haven't built one like it before. I'm using Pat Johnston laser cut ribs and spars (from Mark Scarborough cut files) but the rest is Don's original plan.
I'll post some pics as soon as there's something to take pictures of.
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Have fun Randy, I am looking forward to this build,, this will be the first time I have been down a path before you,, LOL,, cant wait to see how you resolve some of the little "hmmmm" moments I had
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Mark,
The fuse structure is the only thing I'm really concerned with. While this sort of layout was, well, not common in the 60s but certainly done a lot, it's a complicated way to accomplish the thing. I'm mostly concerned with how to keep everything aligned. The wing is pretty straight forward. I'm still decided on weather I'm going to go with sheet flaps and tail surfaces or built up. We'll see on that. At least I don't have to cut out 60 ribs.
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Sorry, my SD card pucked out on my camera. I'll pick another up tomorrow and get some pictures up.
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I spent a LOT of time looking at the plans trynig to figure out how it all went together. there is not much meat around the wing on the fuse sides. The whole vertical "strake" and getting a carbon pushrod through it is shall we say fun? ( I am guessing Shultzie never used carbon pushrods eh?)
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Mark,
Two things: I'm using an 1/8" carbon tube for the push rod. I'm hoping it will fit through there. Should. Second, I'm not cutting the wing cutout out of the fuselage. I'm going to do it sort of like an I-Beam and just cut the leading and trailing edge and spar out and build the wing in two halves and then attach through the cut outs. It will be much easier to keep the fuse straight though the process and it should be easy to block stuff up with inserting the wing and get it all aligned. The trick will be insuring the cuts in the fuse are dead straight.
Hope that's clear. I'll post pics as I go along to illustrate.
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That should work ok, I had contemplated that aproach as well, but finally decided on jus tbuilding the wing complete. I also built the fuse in halves though, front and rear, joined them on the wing. It worked out well actually
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I spent a LOT of time looking at the plans trynig to figure out how it all went together. there is not much meat around the wing on the fuse sides. The whole vertical "strake" and getting a carbon pushrod through it is shall we say fun? ( I am guessing Shultzie never used carbon pushrods eh?)
Did they even have carbon back then??? LL~ LL~ LL~
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Yeppers, the carbon black from the oil lamps,, which they made ink from to draw up the plans,, y1
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Mark,
And after this conversation, I had yet another idea on a way to do this more simply. I'll post pics when I get there, but I think it might be easier to just build the fuse box and wing simultaneously.
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Oh, and Mark, I'm using the 3/16" sides. I found some stock that is pretty stiff and still 3lb stock.
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OK, here's some pics after about 3 hours work.
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OK, here's some pics after about 3 hours work.
Following your progress with much interest Randy. BTW it took me 3 hours to just mask off the canopy today. :'(
Bill
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Bill,
Yea, this stage it seems there are a lot of pieces that get worked on individually. Doesn't seem like you make any real progress until all of a sudden, you're ready to put things together. Because of they way this plane's fuse is built, I modified the construction from the plan in order to sort of build the fuse and wing at the same time. Should be interesting. It will go together something like an I-Beam wing plane is built. Getting the nose components together and milling stuff to save weight is taking all the time at the moment.
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This will be a fun one to watch Randy, ever since I first discovered it I've thought it was a really good looking design. y1
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Hey Wayne,
Well, it will be interesting. I've never build a Stingray like fuse before. I'll try no to goof it up.
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You make quick work of it, Randy. Looks great so far......
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Listening to all you youngin's RAZZIN' N' JAZZIN ABOUT ALL US OLD STUNT-KOOTS BACK IN
"THE EARLY CLPA WRIGHT BROTHER DAZE DAYS OF THE 60'S"
Uhhhh?
Yes....Although my memories have been dulled and faded---- starting with my limited DNA n' gene pool....then combined with years of sniffin too many dope n' paint fumes...too many long overtime long hours at the Boeing Company Wind tunnels and then finally hidden away in the archives...n' Phatom Works until my retirement in 2004!!!
BOTTOM LINE: As all of you WELL KNOW BY NOW... has killed the majority of my toy airplane brain cells---"HAVING SAID, SAD N' DUNG" all those things....
A few facts still remains.
Yes!
Thank the Great Lord n' Hobby Poxy...along with fiberglass cloth......we managed to have both expoxy and fiberglass rods...
For clarity...
However in those daze days...expoxy batchs were never too consistant... (also NO ONE including HOBBYPOXY also seemed in the weeds when it came to writing instructions)
Also the same inconsistancy for the fiberglass rods that I also used in a few of the later models also had huge inconsistant quality.
Any hoo...back to the Avenger and Sting Rays..
Very true...I didn't have too much room left over in the aft end of the Sting Rays or My Avenger series models.... for Fiberglass rods etc. which is
basically the same construction details of the Sting Ray that BOB GIALDINI so often during late at night phone calls to Wisc.DRILLED INTO MY MEAGER CLPA INDUCED BRAIN CELLS...that in those days I THEN TOOK AS GOSPEL.
see attached photos (as soon as I get them copied.)
TOO MUCH INFO huh?
Quite sad when ya think about all this that so many of us old CLPA kootsters...didn't have available to us...some of todays latest and greatest inventions that has aided so much to the art and science of building beautiful stunt machines.
A HUGE VOTE OF THANKS AND ADMIRATION FOR MARK for his AWESOMELY BEAUTIFUL MASTER PIECE WORK OF ART...AND FOR YOU RANDY for choosing my old CLPA AVENGER KUDGLE for CLASSIC!
I SO ADMIRE BOTH OF YOU not only for your amazingly gifted CLPA but most of all for your self less friendship.
You guys give soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much to soooooooooooooooooo many in our WACKY CLPA WORLD
PURPLE WITH ENVY
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Hey SHultzie looks like your on your way to becoming an even bigger celebrity,, now there will be TWO Avengers flying in the NW,,
all I can say is that if Randy's comes out lighter than mine, it may dissapear,,
just sayin,,
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sub-45oz Mark. That's the goal.
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sub-45oz Mark. That's the goal.
WOW! SUB 45OZ!! WOW!
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Don, I'd point out that yours was only 48oz.
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Wow, sub 45 should be quite a trick. Definitely not a Toad if you can pull it off.
What does yours weigh Mark, and with what engine?
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sub-45oz Mark. That's the goal.
Very "doable" with your building techniques and using LIGHT wood. Just don't put a 12 ounce finish on it! LL~ LL~
Big Bear
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WOW! SUB 45OZ!! WOW!
And look at that fantastical complicated paint job on the plane. LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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Mark's is, uh, heavier than that and he put a Magnum 53 in it. Part of the weight was he modified the nose to accept the bigger engine.
I already have a paint scheme figured out. And it will be dead simple and thin.
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well mine is NOT 45 oz,, in part to the finishing woes I suffered, in part to the monster motor I used, and in part to , well, lets say its not the woods fault ok?
I made a couple decisions that cost me ounces, one was to shorten the nose because, well, I was using a monster motor,, now I have to carry a substantial amount of nose weight because when I did the math I screwed up and used the wrong weight for the Magnum,, yeah I know measure twice cut once,, well thats what I did,, but,,
in any case, I am flying at right around 60 ounces, which actually on a 640 inch wing is not that bad, and it flies fine,, no problems in coffin corner, no problems with overhead, and dear heavens it has line tension to spare!
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Mark,
I actually have some concern (some, not much) that the plane, if finished where I am planning it and hey, I could be off my nut, that it will be too light and need ballast like Ted's Tucker Special. Now, I will grant you, neither instance is likely (that it will be "too light" or that it will need ballast), but I have thought about it. More realistically, I'm going to do everything I can think of and a few things I'll probably invent for the occasion to keep the weight down. I was going off of Don's statement of the original plane's weight: 48oz. Truth is, I'd be thrilled out of my mind if I could keep it in the 50-52oz range. I think it would be killer at that weight, but if I can get it lighter, well, to paraphrase the old axiom, it's a lot easier to add weight to the thing than remove it.
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I will be very interested actually if you manage the 45 oz weight, it could be a great way to quantify some of the legend about lighter is always better. flying them back to back could prove some elightenment.
Of course likely it will be you flying both back to back, not sure I would want to fly yours,, LOL,, although with my 10 foot bottoms the risk is certainly lessened n~ Not to say I that I havent in the past exceeded that margin for error, but not lately anyway,,
In any case, I am really looking forward to how you contend with some of the "differences " in construction compared to my solutions,, it should be fun.
Oh did Pat cut the landing gear parts for you too? and the 1/64 rib doublers?
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Will Randy's Revenger (sic) use the PA .40 Merlin out of the Cobra and Shoestring? ??? Steve
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Steve,
Hard to tell. I have two of them.
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Carve, hollow, sand, sand, sand... ;D
Good luck Randy!
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OK, so progress. The aluminum mounts are milled out to lighten them. Looking pretty good so far.
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OK, so progress. The aluminum mounts are milled out to lighten them. Looking pretty good so far.
A-HA! It's the old "milled and lightened aluminum mount" trick!!! :##
I wonder what Mark is building? ;D
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Wayne,
Considering his work load, probably not much at the moment. Besides, someday he's going to have to finish that 109 (of course, I could say that someday, I have to finish the Bearcat sitting under my bench.)
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yeah, the 109, the electrajet, and then a Gypsy maybe, or a new PA airplane,, someday,, sigh,,
not even sure if I will be making fall follies now,, grrrrr
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Yea, I heard from Pat that he can't make it and now it looks as though my attendance, if I can go at all, will be restricted to a blast down on Sunday morning, fly, then a blast back.
Ain't the work environment interesting right now? Heck, most of us are so glad to have a job that we'll do most anything to stay employed. :'(
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Wayne,
Considering his work load, probably not much at the moment. Besides, someday he's going to have to finish that 109 (of course, I could say that someday, I have to finish the Bearcat sitting under my bench.)
Yeah, I just had to toss it out there again. ;D
Didn't know you've been buried in work Mark, that kinda sucks but considering the alternative these days I can relate. I think we all go through cycles on it, but for a while now I've been deep in that cycle where I am completely sick of my job and anything to do with it. I keep telling myself I've got to start playing the lotto, but that would probably be even more depressing. At least we have this great hobby and it's people, it definitely helps me get through the down times.
Now, ahem, what Bearcat do you have stashed away Randy? #^
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Hi Wayne,
I designed a Reno Air Racer Bearcat some years ago. I built the fuselage and some other components then just sort of put it away. It's been sitting under my bench for quite awhile. I pull it out every once in awhile and contemplate finishing it, but then I just put it away again.
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Randy, can't tell you how much I enjoy your building posts. If you and Windy Urtnowski could hook up, you guys would revolutionize classic stunt plane building instruction!!
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Pro,
Well, I try. I didn't work on it last night as I had the late shift at work. Hopefully I can get out there tonight and get the blocks roughed in. Wait till you see how I'm going to do the wing and fuse together. Should be interesting anyway.
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Well, I didn't work on it tonight. Instead, I spent a hour designing the paint scheme and graphics. May have come up with something simple and cool. I like it anyway.
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Randy, sure wish we were about 4 hours closer together, I would be over checking progress all the time! I kinda love this plane so I am anxious to see yours take shape...
I want to build another,,, lighter,,
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Mark,
Here's your update:
The stab supports are under the lead weights. I used 3/32" for the supports then cross grained some 1/20" stuff. That's why they are weighed. I'm also going to put in some 1/64" ply under the stab. Big question is how much room will I have? I'd like to put in a hatch to adjust the controls but...
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This thing already looks cool. y1
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Yea, I sure like the design. I'm heading back out to start carving next. Fun, fun, fun. I lucked out, though. Turns out I have a bellcrank and leadouts already put together (from the Novi I built and piled in). So, that's on thing I don't have to build again.
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I will be very interested actually if you manage the 45 oz weight, it could be a great way to quantify some of the legend about lighter is always better. flying them back to back could prove some enlightenment.
(snip)
In any case, I am really looking forward to how you contend with some of the "differences " in construction compared to my solutions,, it should be fun.
(snip)
Hi Mark and Randy,
Well I would rather not discuss the debate of too light to fly right and too heavy to fly right.......................
But............. I can say that if a model is too light, you can do something to fix that, but if it is too heavy, there just ain't no hope. y1
I cannot argue with Ted's experiment, since he has way more Walker Trophys that I could ever dream of, and his aeronautics background blows me away. But how much of it is personal trim desires? I wouldn't know. I do know that Mr. Werwage and Mr. Hunt are fanatical about building light. (and those two do have three -and counting- World Championships......)
Going as far as Billy saying he thinks a model "could be built too light but he has never done it". You do realize that Billy's USA-1 and his P-47 "Geo Bolt" (w/PA and pipe) are both under 60oz............... ;D
I will continue to build as light as possible (and haven't had one blow up in the air yet LL~ LL~ )
Bill
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So, a bit more done.
The rudder is supposed to be 1/8" sheet, but I cut is from 3/8" so I can carve in a fillet. It will be 1/8" when I'm done. The stab support thingies (that's a technical term) are 3/32" sheet with 1/20" sheet crossgrain then a 1/64" plywood support. Fun stuff. The fuse is roughed in on the top.
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...trying to visualize how the stab support thingies go on.
From what it looks like on the plan in the background, they must attach to the top of the fuse. Must be fun rigging up the pushrod for this one. ;D
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They are sides and insert into the fuse through a slot in the top. And yes, the pushrod set is going to be interesting.
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Yes the stab supports actually go through the top block, and rest upon the top of the bottom block. Kinda ties it all together in a way. and yeah the pushrod is FUN stuff. Mine is even adjustable with a hatch,, but it aint easy I can promise you.
BUT ,, its OH so COOL when its done,,
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Mark,
Post a picture of your hatch. I'd like to see how you did it. I have an idea of my own, but...
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Randy,
remind me later LOL, I am back at work today, had to take a day and a half off for the sickies,,
I think there is a detail on the plans,, or maybe not,, hmm
I know I had Pat cut me a second batch of parts for the strake to incorporate the hatch,, I will look tonight, or take a pict of the hatch,, it involves 1/63 ply,, doublers on the strake,,
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Ok, the blocks are formed and popped off, the cowl is mostly formed. The spar is almost done and the jig is set up with fuse incorporated. Just need to cut the LE and build the TE, finish the spar and put it all together. Also got the stab and elevator laid out. Wish it was going faster, but the thing has a lot of pieces parts. Take some pics tomorrow maybe.
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Thanks for the update Randy. We need Sparky to add a salivating emoticon. #^
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Randy,
how did you treat the spar? and what did you think of my "engineering" for the layers.
I was pretty happy with the way it captured the bellcrank and served the structural purpose too, but then thats me
I always like feedback on stuff like that since I dont have 30 years of experience LOL
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I had to modify it a bit, but that was mostly because I'm using a much thicker bellcrank than you engineered for. So I'm using a brace on the inside of the fuse because I had to thin out the top and bottom of the hole pretty much. But it works. I like the doublers.
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I haven't abandoned the thread. Moving my son last weekend, work till 7pm most of the week and will be gone this weekend. Sigh... Life gets in the way of toy planes.
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Randy, I totally feel your pain,, as I walk by the Electrajet,, still sitting there no the bench,, waiting,, waiting,, soon I tell it, very soon,,
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I haven't abandoned the thread. Moving my son last weekend, work till 7pm most of the week and will be gone this weekend. Sigh... Life gets in the way of toy planes.
Thanks for the update Randy, staying tuned! y1
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WAYNE are you getting old and senile,, or have you just given up on poking me about the 109,heck I left you a perfect oppurtunity too,,
I must state I am somewhat dissapointed,, sigh,,
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WAYNE are you getting old and senile,, or have you just given up on poking me about the 109,heck I left you a perfect oppurtunity too,,
I must state I am somewhat dissapointed,, sigh,,
Oh I caught it Mark, I just tried the silent treatment as "Plan B", and it worked! ;D :##
NOW GET TO WORK ON THAT THING! ;D
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OK, made some progress again. Man, Mark, that spar is fun. I punched a bunch of holes in it to lighten it up and am about done with it. As soon as I cut the LE and TE, I'll start getting the wing together. I'm using a built up stab but I have some light 3/8" I'm going to use for the elevators. Haven't really decided on the flaps, yet. The plan (Donnie's original) calls for 1/4" sheet, but I'm working on another idea.
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dont make it to darn light, remember its the foundation for the whole wing,, I dont want to see a repeat of the USA 1,,
oh wait,, maybe it would be kinda cool, since I missed that one,,
uh, no,, bad Mark,, Bad Bad Mark,,,
oh and remember the heavy silkspan this time ok? LL~
By the way I forgot to mention the rib spacing tool I made,, wanna borrow it?
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It won't be "too" light. But it was about 2oz when I finished it. Then I punched all the holes in and hogged out on the holes in the doublers and it's about 1.25oz now. Should be acceptable.
I made a tool of my own, but thanks for the offer.
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You mean this is not ready for one of your super simple finishes yet??? LL~ LL~ LL~
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Hey Doc! Well, if anyone is expecting a complicated finish for this, they will be disappointed. I hope to make it interesting, but not too involved. I want to keep it light and I won't have all that much time to get it finish before VSC.
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Need some fishnets Randy? ;D
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I know you're wearing them so they probably won't work for me. LL~
And I said this was going to be a SIMPLE paint scheme.
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Oh my,, Randy gets in a dig! lol,, ::)
well, no actually not,, the red pearl sparklies just dont work for me,, sigh,, and really, its a simple technique anyway
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Simple by heavy. I want one coat of base color and marginal trim. I want a sub-6oz finish on the thing. I won't tear it up at appearance judging, but it will fly.
I managed to get out last night and cut the leading edge. I am using a router bit to hog out the center of it (facing the aft). That's about done. Trailing edge next then I can put the wing together. Pictures this weekend.
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OK, so my wife finally brought the camera back from the stable and I took some pics today. The wing is just framed up in the pictures, but not glued together. The ribs are loose and not aligned. I'm still making a tool for that. Trust me, putting it together this far was not for the faint of heart. You sort of have to assemble the thing and put the jig together simultaneously. Took awhile to figure that out. the pieces are the tail pieces, the blocks (un-hollowed) and some various parts. I have the wood assembled for the tail surfaces and flaps. I decided to frame then rather than cut them from sheet stock (as the original was done). The stab will be built up and sheeted, the elevators framed up with ribs and the flaps framed and sheeted.
One detail, I was started to put the wing together and realized that the jig pieces didn't go low enough to use to support the leading and trailing edges and have the fuse against the jig base. So it was either prop the fuse up or re-machine the jig pieces. I decided that for alignment reasons, it was better to have the fuse against the jig base so I spent most of yesterday afternoon cutting the jig slots about a half inch deeper. All of them (16). That was fun.
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Looks like enough ribs for four airplanes!
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Wayne, Trust me there IS enough ribs there for a couple planes!
Randy, did Pat cut the 1/64 ply rib doublers and other parts for the landing gear plates? It really makes it nice for the landing gear!
Its looking pretty good so far,, and yeah I can imagine jigging it this way took some time, but it should yield a pretty straight piece when your done..
Lets see, you have what, three months now?
maybe I should go to VSC too, then we can have two of them there!
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Randy, your jigging is impressive, but I wonder if using the same method used on Gierke's All American Eagle, and Novi3, I-beam style tip plates, wouldn't have works a well?
I built the AAE using a tip plate, and a mid span plate in the same way as an I-beamer, and it worked a treat. S?P H^^
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John,
I wanted to jig yup the fuse and wing together and this worked pretty well. Just a pain to get all the ribs slide down the I-Beam then fit the jig pieces. Not a big deal, just took a bit.
Mark,
No. Pat didn't cut any of the landing gear pieces. Just the fill blocks for the for and aft. I have a plan, though.
Wayne,
Maybe all those ribs will work as turbulators. LL~
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Randy, I can send you the drawings of the parts. It worked out really well on mine. I was pretty sure I sent him the cut files for those parts, I wonder if they just got missed?
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I don't know. He sent the ribs and some pieces that appear to be fore and aft fillers around the gear. Not a bit deal. I can machine gear blocks. And I was going to use some 1/64" ply to reinforce the ribs around the blocks. Been nice to have pre-cut doublers but hey, you can't have everything.
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I may have a spare set of them. I was so proud of my engineering I had two sets cut as I recall. I figured they would be easy to adapt to any design. I will look today. I had to come home early,, seams that Avista didnt want me working today, we lost all power at work and considering 95% of what I do is on the computer,, well, it was going to be a long boring day,,
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Tragically, a lot of what I do is on the computer, too. Shouldn't be for what I do, but there it is.
Take a look. I won't get to that for a bit anyway.
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TOTALLEEEEEEEEEEEE' BLEW MY SNEAKERS OFF, RANDY!!!
BBBBBBBBBEEEEEEUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTFUL' ARTISTCAL' CRAFTSMANSHIP AT ITS FINEST!.....
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Uh, Don, I don't think I can put that picture on the plane. LL~
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Anything new Randy?
I'm guilty, I haven't touched a thing in the shop for better than two weeks. Building season is here, I've gotta get back in the groove. y1
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Just about finished planking the underside. The controls are in and the gear blocks mostly done (though I have to do some grinding on the those. Then I can flip it over, do the planking on the top then move on. Still figuring out how I'm going to do the rear pushrod, but I'll get to that.
I have 4 days to work on it this week (we had an early Thanksgiving with the family). WooHoo!!!
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OK, the wing is done. Now I just have to figure out how to do the controls in the rear. I'm cogitating on it.
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Man, the tail end of this thing is a pain in my backside. I think I finally figured out a way to do it according to the plans (more or less) and still be able to adjust the pushrod. But it is a royal pain, that's certain. Some pics tomorrow.
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How did Mark do his?
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Mark re-engineered his fuse. I'm trying to build mind like Donnie did. It will be OK in the end (sorry, bad pun). Don didn't have adjustable controls.
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OK, so I'm about ready to put the tail box in. Finally got the thing built so the controls clear and are adjustable. Still have some futzing around to do, but it's pretty much there. Alignment will be the trick now. I figuring out a jig to hold the tail together while I set up the tail box and get it glued in. Top block is all hollowed out. I decided to go with blocks rather than molded wood since I found 2 -3lb stock 1" blocks at a craft store. Still have to finish the stab, elevators and flaps, but it's coming along.
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Randy,
its looking pretty good there,, yeah the tail is VERY tight, especially when you want more than a L bend in the pushrod.
was I supposed to be taking apicture of something for you,, I cant recall,,
If I was, it will have to wait for awhile,, its time to watch some FOOTBALL,,
GO COUGS
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Mark,
I fudged the width slightly to get room along with a hatch panel on the outside and a lot of fiddling with the inside of the tail box to allow the horn to swing freely.
Sorry about the Cougs.
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Randy,
no comment on the Cougs,, its hard to be a fan in Washington state,, Cougs, Seahawks, Mariners,, you just have to grow thick skin,,
as to the Avenger,, I to fudged the thickness on the tail, it seemed the only way to make it work. Did you use a ball link? or other means of attachment...
You only have like three months, better get busy dude,, now that football is over,, ( aside from YOUR bowl game) you should be able to crank on this now.
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I'm working on it. Should be done in time, though I may be painting it in February. Hope not.
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OK, a couple more pics. The tail piece is a bit wide but I've already figured out how to deal with that. I'll need to get the bottom block on first. The stab in the picture is a core. It will be sheeted.
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Man, I never realized the back half of this plane was so complicated. Looks like it's getting close though, thanks for the pics. y1
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@ Wayne,
yeah its pretty intense but oh so very worth it,, its a really cool look
not only that but there is about 5 miles worth of fillets to do as well,, all along the top strake and vertical,, the bottom strake and then of course the wing root as well,,,
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Yeah, I've always thought it was a very cool looking airplane. I'm starting to wonder what kind of paint scheme Randy is going to come up with. #^
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I plan to copy Don's original. Basically a white plane with red and blue stripes. Sorry, not funny stuff this time.
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I plan to copy Don's original. Basically a white plane with red and blue stripes. Sorry, not funny stuff this time.
WOW! RANDY AND MARK!U-2 Gifted builders and flyers!!!
Mark, your beautiful Avenger is truly awesome...and RANDY!! WHAT DANDY and ARTISTICAL' WORKMANSHIP you have been sharing with us on your build up in those amazing photos.
(by the way....The trim on my Avenger Series 35 was actually metallic Maroon & Metallic Navy Blue in order to match the dark Maroonie red dyed canopy...which by the time this photo was taken....had already began to fade away into a pale shade of Pinkish Red! RITT DYE SUCKED IN THOSE DAZE DAYS...and always faded badly in bright sunlight.
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Yep, that's the one. And pretty much the paint scheme I'm planning right down to the red dyed canopy.
Well, maybe not the red canopy....
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Looks great, but I'm not sure that Randy has any tape that makes straight lines. ;D
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Looks great, but I'm not sure that Randy has any tape that makes straight lines. ;D
LOL!
That being said:
Randy's talent with tape is amazing! For example, check out these beautiful paint schemes work on a couple of my favorite "POWELL-POW WOW!" work of skyart at its finest.
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Donnie,
well, I do plan to use that Cobra White (alabaster pearl white with some other stuff mixed in). But that's just the base color.
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Donnie,
well, I do plan to use that Cobra White (alabaster pearl white with some other stuff mixed in). But that's just the base color.
H^^ CLP**
THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE PERFECTO' COLOR--OHYEH!!!!
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Here we go... ;D I can smell a slightly "Randy-ized" version of the scheme before all is said and done. y1
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Wayne,
The colors will (likely) be pearl white (this is a custom mix I came up with for the Cobra), a metallic maroon red (like the original tone) and a sort of blue-gray color that will hopefully be in the neighborhood of the original color. I may futz around with the stripping pattern, but it will essentially be what's in Don's picture. As I said, I don't know if I'll go with a red dyed canopy or not. I need to dig up a Williams Brothers Military Pilot somewhere.
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Randy, remember I have a vast assortment of dry pearls if you need some to spark up the color,, I even have some candy concentrates for when you,,,,,,,,
oh wait, you said simple right?
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Mark,
Not even temped. (well, not much). I have everything I need, I think. I just need to get the darned thing built. I worked to 7pm last night (getting home at 8 ) and will tonight. Hope to get out to the shop tomorrow night. Lots to do before it's ready for finish. At least I don't have to build wheel pants.
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I can relate, I am currently overhauling my work area,, tired of having three homes for the same thing and never knowing where to look,, LOL, plus getting rid of some "stuff" that has been hanging around way to long.
HOpefully I can get some actually modeling done soon,,
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Wayne,
The colors will (likely) be pearl white (this is a custom mix I came up with for the Cobra), a metallic maroon red (like the original tone) and a sort of blue-gray color that will hopefully be in the neighborhood of the original color. I may futz around with the stripping pattern, but it will essentially be what's in Don's picture. As I said, I don't know if I'll go with a red dyed canopy or not. I need to dig up a Williams Brothers Military Pilot somewhere.
Yep, just givin' ya some s... Randy. S?P
Hey Mark! Uh, you know. ;D :##
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While everyone else is busy arguing about the BOM, I come over to "Randy's Place" and hang out. If you could somehow go back in time, (we may be able to sometime) and visit Flushing Meadows at the height of the "push" for the Worlds and the Nats, Randy's ships look JUST LIKE THAT.
Brother Randy is not just doing some serious kick-ass building, he is channeling up some mean Flushing Meadows mojo. I know Jose Modesto is enjoying these build threads as much as I do.
When the “boys” at Flushing Meadows finished a ship, they looked just like what they were intended to do, and that was, take on the World, and that was exactly what they did!! Randy’s ships look just like that, ready for World class action.
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Wayne,
yeah I know, and thanks for remembering,, sigh
Its on the radar,,,,,,,,, still :-\
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LOL!
That being said:
Randy's talent with tape is amazing! For example, check out these beautiful paint schemes work on a couple of my favorite "POWELL-POW WOW!" work of skyart at its finest.
That "Effect" is cool. I didn't know that Randy sometimes flew clockwise.
And how come the writing is all mirrored?
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That "Effect" is cool. I didn't know that Randy sometimes flew clockwise.
And how come the writing is all mirrored?
Why is the writing mirrored....I PLOPPED THE 35MM NEGATIVE INTO MY EPSON SCANNER IN REVERSE...DIDN'T CATCH IT UNTIL AFTER I POSTED IT n~ LL~
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Why is the writing mirrored....I PLOPPED THE 35MM NEGATIVE INTO MY EPSON SCANNER IN REVERSE...DIDN'T CATCH IT UNTIL AFTER I POSTED IT n~ LL~
I actually spent several minutes puzzling over why Randy would have gone and made everything mirrored before I realized what must have happened. Once I realized it must have suffered in transit, I still had to verify that the leadouts weren't sticking out of the wing facing me, and that the AMA number was on the wrong wing (as well as backward).
Life inside my head can be like a sitcom, sometimes.
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Tim,
Weirdly, I learned to fly clockwise. Did that until I left for college. When I came back to flying, I met Pat Johnston and he flew counter-clockwise so I flew that way. About 2 years ago I built a little profile to fly clockwise just to see if I could still fly that way. It was fun.
Proparc,
b1
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(snip)
plus getting rid of some "stuff" that has been hanging around way to long.
HOpefully I can get some actually modeling done soon,,
"Hopefully" a certain ME-109 is not in that category! LL~ LL~ LL~
Big Bear
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I think the 109 is a delusion. It's not real, just a figment of Mark's imagination. I have no real proof that says otherwise. 8)
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Randy,,,
now YOUR going to jump on me too,, sheesh,,
it is real, Pat has touched it,
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Uh huh. Sure, Ok. I believe you. You're a trustworthy guy.
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Donnies' Avenger is one of the most beautiful and complex models ever conceived.
To witness guys like Randy and Mark build these things to their high standards is a real treat.
Ol Donnie gotta be lovin this, I know I am!
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Les,
from you that's high praise, thank you,,
Randy,, you need to play nice,, just cause your dogs beat up on my poor cougs is no reason to lash out ,,, sheesh,,
and you have seen the pictures too,, I guess now I just have to finish the 109 for the regionals,,
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Donnies' Avenger is one of the most beautiful and complex models ever conceived.
To witness guys like Randy and Mark build these things to their high standards is a real treat.
Ol Donnie gotta be lovin this, I know I am!
I agree with Les, it's enjoyable to watch a cool design get a high quality build. y1
I'm kind of hungry to see someone do a nice semi-scale Warbird model though, it's been a while since we've seen something like that here on the forum. I think it's been even longer since we've seen one of the Axis planes done. Something like an FW190 would be neat, but there's been many of them done over the years so it's kind of old news. I'm don't recall ever seeing a nice ME 109 though, that would be pretty neat to see. HIHI%%
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OK, we need to take Donnie out behind the shed and beat the snot out of him. I got the plane in one piece sans the canopy and control surfaces, but what a pain. The tail of that thing is just evil. But it's finally together and I just need some clean up and sanding. The tail wheel set up was particularly tough. But the good news it, I weighed the thing and the whole airframe without canopy or control surfaces is about 13oz. That seems pretty good to me.
I'll take some pictures tomorrow.
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Randy,
it may be painful, but man when it sits there in one piece, its a very very satisfying feeling,, I know it was for me!
this build challenged me WAY beyond what I thought it would,,
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Figuring it out from his less than descriptive plans has been interesting. Yours were better that way. I'm still gonna have to do s bit of filler in a couple of spots. I just had to pry the tail apart a bit to get that ball link in. Sigh... Man, those blocks are thin in spots, but the thing is sure light.
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OK, we need to take Donnie out behind the shed and beat the VD~ out of him.
But the good news it, I weighed the thing and the whole airframe without canopy or control surfaces is about 13oz. That seems pretty good to me.
I'll take some pictures tomorrow.
LL~
Randy and Mark!!
That was my same feelings waaaay back in 1967 during the building faze-haze of my first nationals STING RAY!
*(see attached photo taken at the 67 nationals practice circles)..
where my first brand new Sting Ray was being "TWEAKED" in with the CONSTANT HELP AND NAGGING QUESTIONS I WAS ASKING of some of the most gifted CLPA flyers in the USA. With out their help and advice on trimming and flying, I highly doubt if I would have continued to build these EVIL TAIL FEATHERED ASSEMBLEEEEEEES' y1
I MUST HAVE BUGGED THE HB~> VD~ OF OF BOB GIALDINI with those constant LONG DISTANT PHONE CALLS TO WISC. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT...asking question after questions about that EVIL TAIL ASSEMBLY...
Even after building 3 successful Sting Rays...guess I got hooked on the look for my AVENGER SERIES stunt models and like the "Song Sings: THINGS ILL' GET EEEEEE ZZZZZ ER' as time flies on and on...n' all that jazz! LL~ LL~
CONGRATS' RANDY!! FANTASTICAL'' WOW!! ONLY 13 OUNCES IS AWESOME!!!
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OK, it's mostly in one piece. the elevators are now done and on the plane (or fitting). Still need to build flaps, landing gear, fairing, cowl and canopy.
Progress....
Pics below of the assembled main airframe.
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Cool. y1
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That is looking really sharp, even though it's just bare bones...... y1
Bill
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Randy, I gotta tell ya, it sends shivers down my spine lOL,, I SO remember mine looking like that,, and how awesome it was. and then my nightmares began LOL
heres hoping yours goes a lot smoother than mine did
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Like the song says.....
"DEMMMBONES...DEMMMBONES....THEM DRY BONES...NOW THAT'S DA WORK N' WORD OF THE LORD AND DANDY RANDY'S GOD GIVEN TALENT.
RANDY...THOSE BONES ARE TRULY A WORK OF ART!....SIMPLY ASTOUNDING....THANKS FOR SHARING THESE PHOTOS!
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You can see a couple of dings in the thing toward the tail. This if from freelancing where I had to widen the insert piece that the stab sits on. On the other hand, all the million pieces ended up fitting together pretty nicely. As you can also see, the leading and trailing edge have to be shaped yet. I get to this point on a plane and all I can think of is the amount of work yet to go. But it's fun, I guess.
Now comes the big question. Do I dye the canopy:
1) Black
2) Brown
3) Red (like Donnie's original)
4) Blue
I'm leaning toward blue. the plane will be pearl white, red and blue ultimately in some combination (probably pretty close to the original, but I may get creative on the fuse.
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I think I'd go with blue too, a lot less chance of it turning pink at some point.
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Randy,
Your builds are always impeccable. You are doing Donnie justice and more!
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Randy,
Your builds are always impeccable. You are doing Donnie justice and more!
AMEN, (My "HOTSHOT"BROTHA'TOM!!! LL~ BW@ H^^ I AM TRULY HONORED!
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I look forward to setting Randy's Avenger next to mine at the regionals this year,, that will be a rare photo op,,
heck maybe I might even throw a 109 in the picture as well,, ( painted or not it may be there)
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Mark,
Mine won't be orange, but it should be OK. And I know you just want to bring the 109 to prove it exists. Amazing what you can do with photoshop.
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Mark,
And I know you just want to bring the 109 to prove it exists. Amazing what you can do with photoshop.
Heh, Heh, Heh. ;D
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Randy,, mine isnt orange either,, for the record, its GOLD,, sheesh,,
Wayne,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, yeah I know
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S?P Mark, can you hear the strains from flight of the Valkry playing softly in the back ground? HB~>
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I don't know that Mark is a Wagner sort of guy. But hey, you never know. Linda looks a bit like a valkyrie. Blonde anyway.
OK, orangy gold.
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I don't know that Mark is a Wagner sort of guy. But hey, you never know. Linda looks a bit like a valkyrie. Blonde anyway.
Give him a helmet with horns and a big ol' battle ax and he'll be Valkyrie-bait, anyway.
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holy crap,, I thought this thread was about RANDY,, and now I am getting crucified,, oh wait, different era huh,,
yes well I am of Bavarian , English, and Italian descent,, not much Norse blood in there,, the 109 will get finished,, but with my shift to electric power, its kind of become yesterdays news,, now in all honesty, I have been eyeballing it for a possible conversion to electric, but that likely wont happen,, I just need to finish cleaning the bench, and sand some more,, oh and repair the wing silkspan where the girls poked a hole in it during a teenage sleepover at the house,, sigh,, then there are the things I have uncovered that today I would never find acceptable, aesthetically,, and should I leave them, or redo them,, sigh,,
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Mark,
This is why my Bearcat never got finished and is languishing under the bench. About a million things I would do differently now.
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Mark,
This is why my Bearcat never got finished and is languishing under the bench. About a million things I would do differently now.
Well guys, if you need a shipping address... :##
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Hey Shultzenator,
On the rudder/fuse rear. Was it rounded or squared up? Or just the rudder rounded off?
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Hey Shultzenator,
On the rudder/fuse rear. Was it rounded or squared up? Or just the rudder rounded off?
It's been a while..but I usually never liked to SQUARE these items to sharply...JUST THINK ABOUT THIS...
So many models that I have seen that use sharp squared up edges...USUALLY AFTER THE GRULING HOURS OF PRACTICE FLYING....ESPECIALLY WHEN TRYING TO KEEP PAINT THICKNESS AND WEIGHT IN CHECK...THESE SHARP EDGES soon began to pick up nicks..dings...dents in constant handling, and rubb a dub rub throughs those DELICATE clear coats over sharp balsa surfaces begin to look FLIGHT WAR WEARY...THEN...THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH GRIT, GRIM ENDS UP ONTO THOSE BEAUTIFUL HAND RUBBED SURFACES...which begin to look pretty pretty dull and delicate.
BOTTOM LINE!
SHARP EDGES look pretty good BRAND NEW...BUT THEN ADD THE HOURS , DAYS OF FLYING...ROUNDED SURFACES RETAIN THAT NEW LOOK MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER IN THE LONG HAUL?
FOOD FOR THOUGHT....with that in mind, my vote ESPECIALLY FOR THE PAINT WORK ALONE..goes for ROUNDING THE SURFACES!
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Don,
So, does this mean the rear of the fuselage was rounded? I assume yes. Thanks for the top view. I need to decide if I'll copy the inklines. Looks cool.
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Don,
So, does this mean the rear of the fuselage was rounded? I assume yes.
Not only I rounded the fuselage I also blended both the dorsal* and sub dorsal's* fin' (Our Aerodynamical wizard masta, Gary Letsinger would often LL~ LL~at my lame understanding labels that I would use in naming airplane body parts and appendages?)
I was also cautioned to be very careful in using too many micro-balloonie's in blending those aft sections...
However....even after all those years of flying those Sting Rays....NO STRESS CRACKING in either the wing to fuselage-stab fillets ...TALK ABOUT BLIND LUCK? n~
by the way....I found a bunch of B&W 120 film negatives (attached one sample) of that first Avenger that I thought were lost forever a few weeks ago when digging out my Christmas decorations. (same negatives and more that I took with my old Rolleiflex double lens reflex camera.
Actually some of those negatives were taken of not only the underside of the Avenger but also the aft sections of the stab and elevators.
I will check out my local KINKEEKINKCO'S & COPY locations to see if they can scan these negs for us.
RANDY...AGAIN!!! THOSE BEAUTIFUL DRY BONES OF THAT NEW AVENGER OF YOURS ARE TRULY ARTISTIC BALSA SCULPTING AT ITS FINEST!
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What did you scan that one in with?
Some flat-bed scanners do negatives, although I'm not sure how many do large-format negatives.
It's a nice picture when you turn it around.
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What did you scan that one in with?
Some flat-bed scanners do negatives, although I'm not sure how many do large-format negatives.
It's a nice picture when you turn it around.
WOW TIM...THANKS!!! HOW DID YOU TURN IT AROUND?
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Donny...I saved your (negative) scan to my desktop, opened it with IrfanView, clicked "image", then "negative" in the drop down menu. Easy peasy... LL~ Steve
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Ok, the main airframe is mostly done. Building the flaps and once those are done I can do the cockpit and canopy. Also need to get the fairings on. Then it's the cowl and landing gear and I can start finishing. Whew!
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Donny...I saved your (negative) scan to my desktop, opened it with IrfanView, clicked "image", then "negative" in the drop down menu. Easy peasy... LL~ Steve
Hey Steve and Tim...THANKS GUYS!!! U ARE SUCH GREAT PUTRRRR' GEEKS!
I toyed with my 35mm Epson V 300 slide & neg. scanner and because of that..I couldn't get it to copy the entire frame...
Gee...I really think my old Avenger would have look betta' in Black Sheeps clothing instead of white? (except I never could see a black plane very well...especially in motion and also if the light of day started to fade.
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I love that paint scheme. How did you do it? LL~ LL~ LL~
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Donny...I saved your (negative) scan to my desktop, opened it with IrfanView, clicked "image", then "negative" in the drop down menu.
That's pretty much what I did, only I used GIMP. I'm not sure how IrfanView is to use -- GIMP has a steep learning curve, but once you get up it a ways you can do anything.
I'm not sure what to do about scanning in those negatives. Big-format film from a Rolli should give really good scans, but you'd need a scanner that could do it justice. There's probably some way to cobble together a scanning adapter, but I have no clue how to do it, whether you want to, and how much it would take. For that matter, there are probably scanners out there that can take big-format film (and one would hope that they'd be otherwise good enough for your negatives). But, once again, I am clueless as to details.
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>>except I never could see a black plane very well...especially in motion and also if the light of day started to fade<<
Well, maybe that means the judges can't see if very well either.
Tim, I use GIMP on my linux box. I'm not fluent with it, but I know my way around it.
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>>except I never could see a black plane very well...especially in motion and also if the light of day started to fade<<
Well, maybe that means the judges can't see if very well either.
Tim, I use GIMP on my linux box. I'm not fluent with it, but I know my way around it.
LOL!
EVEN MORE INTERESTING...Guess I am still under the impression THAT MOST JUDGES CAN'T SEE LL~ VD~ S?P
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I've been encouraging folks to download IrfanView (freeware!) for years now, but some hotshot always recommends some other program. Too bad, because if you can't work IrfanView, you can't even fall off a turnip truck correctly. It's pretty much that easy. y1 Steve
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Steve,
It's a good program. I've used it before. GIMP is sort of an open source Photoshop.
I gotta tell you, standing up in the shop for like 5 hours working on the thing today, I'm toast. But it's just about framed up. Got the flaps about 80% done today. About a half hour's work and they will be done. Then it's just clean up, bits and pieces and they darned cockpit. I hate doing those.
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As you know....Cockpits, at least to me, were always the "PITS!" and so often can be a whole lot of CAN-O-PEE WORMS.
Nothing can MAKE OR BREAK an otherwise awesome CLPA model faster (or its final gleaning of appearance points FASTER than A SPEEEEEEEEEEEDIN' BULLET! than a properly appointed and detailed canopy.
Randy, Randy, Randy..... "KEEP IN MIND" THAT YOUR GIFT IN MAKING BEEEUUUTEEEFUL CANOPY ART has always been as LEGENDARY as your loooooooong lineage of CLPA ART AT ITS FINEST. .
(Just a thought...worth tossing around?) :! HB~>
You are also a master of the airbrush...so why not just flip that canopy over...and simply airbrush the inside of that plastic bubble with one of your blended works of art and forget all the silly-suuuuudo'pilot heads, yokeeyokels' and dashboard dinkeee's that so often...after a short time of practice flying with all that vibration...become loose shards of giggling shrappnalnoidals? :!
Truly...A well simulated canopy would be my first choice.
Hey grunts....attached is a couple of photo of a couple of the most beautiful simulations anywhere.
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Donnie,
Yea, neither of those planes had a plastic canopy. I have a pilot already and I'll come up with some sort of understated layout.
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I thought it was weird that Donny reversed the first pic (Randy sitting). I would have not reversed that one, but would have reversed the one of the Slider flying inverted, just for giggles. y1 Steve
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Donnie,
Yea, neither of those planes had a plastic canopy. I have a pilot already and I'll come up with some sort of understated layout.
Usually when I finally arrived at the canopy building and detailing stages...that includes usually EVERY STUNT MODEL that I ever had built...I usually WAS SO BURNT OUT...I usually just popped in a pilots head, a funky headrest...and along with a few silly little stick pin switches and hole punched instrument panel with funky clear plastic covered paper dials..etc.
Check some of my simple-syyyyiiiiiii-man' created on demand in the nick of time...canopy creations.
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I thought it was weird that Donny reversed the first pic (Randy sitting). I would have not reversed that one, but would have reversed the one of the Slider flying inverted, just for giggles. y1 Steve
n~
Steve...I too thought about trying to do that...However I didn't have the puta' saaaaveee' or talent to pull off that.
I thought twice...about that BRAIN GLITCH...when I popped that color negative into my 35mmm film scanner by mistake LL~
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Don, as good a a photographer as you obviously are, you really need to learn some basic graphics stuff
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Shame that plane never lived up to it's potential.
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THANKS TIM... H^^
Although I spent HALF my worklife and career as a retail wholesale photography account executive "FANCY NAME FOR N/W PEDDLER with starting with Sandy's Camera Shops...GAF and Mirrocolor Professional photoprocessing laboratories....however that was from the early 60's through the mid 1970's BEFORE THEY TOOK MY KODACHROME AND FILM CAMERAS AWAY...
before I RETIRED AND WENT TO WORK AS A MODEL MAKER & RECOG'ARTIST FOR BOEING FOR THE NEXT 30 YEARS!!!
Now that I am reaching the "WINTER OF MY LIFE"...my skills as a modelmaker n' artist AND now A REAL NEWBEE THAT JUST DOESN'T "GET IT" WITH THE NEW DIGITAL CAMERA AGE....I REMAIN VITURALLY LOST IN CYBERSPACE! n~ ~^
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Shame that plane never lived up to it's potential.
RANDY...
Those photo IN NO WAY DID JUSTICE to one of the most beautiful and creative CLPA models that these tired ol' decaying EYEBALLS have ever seen sittin on a tarmac.
PURE AND SIMPLY...TO ME....ONE OF YOUR MOST BBBUUUUTEEE FUL WORKS OF CLPA SKY ART EVAAAA!!! CLP** BW@
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Well, it's pretty, but I was never able to get it to fly as well as it should have. The other one flies fine, I think, but the candy one was just not right. Someday I may go back and dink with it some more. It took a year to get the most recent version flying decently.
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Randy, over the years I had some planes that flew awful but after letting them sit for a while I decided it is time to do some trimming ad see if I can get them to fly right. my latest example was my Ruffy kit by RSM. I almost lost it on the first flight doing the outside loop which was almost a full circle loop that missed the ground. After looking at the elevators after that flight I noticed one side of the elvators was warped up and I was doin outside loop with what i call a canceled elevator throw. After i fiked it flew good but had trouble with landings because the inbord wing was soo long and I put too much outbord weight in it that the outboard wing would almost touch the ground on landingg. After some time that this plane hung on the wall I decided to see if I could fix it by adding inbord weight to the tip. It worked an now have a very good flying Ruffy.
I also had trouble with my Artic fox that flew really wierd after I first tested it. It wanted to dive on me as I was flying it. I had moved my leadout guides back and the leadouts were rubbing on the guides and made it seem likr it wanted to dive, Easy fix was an oil job on the leaaouts. It now flys very well and the plane stays in the groove . Like Winston Churchell says "Never Give UP". HB~> HB~>
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Hey Leo. Long time, no hear.
That's why they are still hanging on the wall and not salvaged for parts. I plan to give one plane that flies pretty well to a deserving individual.
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Hey Leo. Long time, no hear.
That's why they are still hanging on the wall and not salvaged for parts. I plan to give one plane that flies pretty well to a deserving individual.
%^@
which plane is that Randy?
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(snip)I plan to give one plane that flies pretty well to a deserving individual.
Well, my newest PAMPA plane is now old enough to be a High School Freshman! :o y1 n~ :##
BIG Bear
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Mark,
Probably Tim. Calm down.
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Randy,,
no that wasnt what I was thinking,, ( well not totally anyway) more which airplane you are thinking of?
I am running out of storage space,, time for me to find homes for a couple too, I just aquired a couple planes built by Rob that are set up for electric, and then I have a couple others I want to find homes for as well. one is a Magnum that I will never fly, and I should probably just bite the bullet and get rid of the Profile martian butterfly since its never goign to get repaired, I just love the paintjob so much,, sigh
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Mark,
Probably the Candy Bomb. Tim can strip it down, put a better finish on it and lose about 20oz. Probably be a good flying plane then. Maybe the USA-1 derivative.
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I suppose I need to get back out and work on the thing. Hope to finish up the framing and cockpit/canopy this weekend and start finishing it.
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Yeah Randy, I just cant abide by you taking this long to build something,, I mean you dont ever see me taking this long,, uh well,,
never mind
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And the 109 has been test flown? LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
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I suppose I need to get back out and work on the thing. Hope to finish up the framing and cockpit/canopy this weekend and start finishing it.
Also wish I could remember where I PAID FORWARD my extra Dubro canopys that I used for both my old Sting Rays and Avengers.
Most of my extra items (boxes of uncut balsa planks-gleaned from Boeing Surplus...were paid forward to Paul Walker around 2004 when I not only retired from Boeing...but when I remodeled our garage storage room that I had been using for a make shift model den.
Time fles along with memories...during the winter of an old model kook's life. n~
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Donnie,
Well, this spring we're going to get a handle in your hand again. I have a lot of planes hanging on the wall gathering dust.
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And the 109 has been test flown? LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
what now YOUR going to pile on me too,, sheesh,, ok well maybe not so much yet
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what now YOUR going to pile on me too,, sheesh,, ok well maybe not so much yet
Hi Mark. VD~
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OK, back on topic. Here's a pic as of today. Just the cockpit and canopy, fairing and landing gear. then I can do the cowl and start finishing the thing.
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RANDY...LOOKIN SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD! H^^ #^
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OK, back on topic.
Yay!
Here's a pic as of today. Just the cockpit and canopy, fairing and landing gear. then I can do the cowl and start finishing the thing.
Man that's pretty. It's a shame you have to go and cover it. I know it won't win you maximum appearance points, but solid on the fuse and translucent on the wings and tail feathers would sure look nice.
I want to build one. But not only would I have to find the time, I'd have to find someone who could actually fly the thing to give it to when I was done!
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Man, that's really cool. y1 Watching most of your builds Randy, I think you win the part count per airplane competition.
Are the wingtips a hollowed block kind of thing or...?
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Well, it's got a lot of parts, but that's Donnie's fault, no mine. The wing tips are suppose to be solid, but I'm trying to lighten the thing up. the leading edge is hogged out (internally), the wing tips are hogged out and the trailing edge is 3 pieces. I've been doing everything I can think of to insure it won't be a toad.
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SLC covering from Corehouse and no paint. LL~ LL~ That does look to good to cover up with paint. H^^
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I went through thte same dilema with mine, it looked cool with all the bones showing,,
however, on this wing, you really need the structure from the covering, I fear SLC would not be enough and you would have a flexi flier
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Yea, like most I-Beam type of designs, the wing is pretty flexible twist-wise. The only way to stiffen it up is a heavy covering. I plan to use SGM silkspan. Maybe double it up out to the LG. The USA-1 I built taught me that the covering is extremely important to this sort of design.
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How about Polyspan? Put it on nice and snug initially and then later when you tighten in up with heat it gets tight as a drum. After finishing it's very strong too.
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On my All American Eagle, which uses virtually the same wing, I covered with silkspan first, then applied 2 coates of thinned dope. Next I applied Monokote for finish. Plenty strong enough. H^^
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Well, in that case, the Monokote was finish. 8)
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Wayne, on my Avenger, I covered it with Polyspan. doped it up to the point of sanding. It did not add significantly to torsional resistance, or at least I didnt feel it did. I ended up double covering over the top with SGM silkspan to get it twist proof.
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OK, back on topic. Here's a pic as of today. Just the cockpit and canopy, fairing and landing gear. then I can do the cowl and start finishing the thing.
Had a difficult time finding Photos of the cowling...here is one that I think I might have sent to Mark on his Avenger building project.
This photo was taken a few weeks after test flying and getting ready for the Spokane Internats? As you can see...by the time this photo was taken.....the cowling hold down platform hadn't been tweaked enough to keep the cowling from compressing around the hold down bolt.
Shortly after this photo was taken...I quickly revamped the cowling hold down and compressed the cowling back into shape.
(Perhaps...WAAAY to many practice flights and WAAAY to much heat on a brand new WAAAY TOO THIN cowling that had just been fiberglassed on the inside (still quite soft...I must have misjudged the amount of hardner. In those days...I was burning waaaay too many midnight hours in my makeshift garage hobby work shop.
(Maybe I was even more addicted than either Randy or Mark...in those early 70's daze-days?)
However my model building skills during those times as you can see by this photo...shows that even though I had been flying CLPA since the 1956---I STILL HAD SOOOO MUCH TO LEARN. (N' MAYBE NEVER DID LEARN? ) LL~ n~ H^^
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Donnie,
What picture?
Looks like I may be begging a ride for the plane down to Tucson unless I can figure out a way I can drive (not likely, but maybe). So if anyone from the Northwest is planning on driving down and has room for another plane, please let me know.
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Wayne, on my Avenger, I covered it with Polyspan. doped it up to the point of sanding. It did not add significantly to torsional resistance, or at least I didnt feel it did. I ended up double covering over the top with SGM silkspan to get it twist proof.
Wow, that suprises me Mark. I've never done an I-Beamer, but ever since I started using Polyspan I swear by the stuff.
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Wayne, I really liked working with it pretty well, It just didnt give the torsional resistance I wanted. On a C tube or D tube wing it would be awesome, in fact I thought it would be a decent idea to strip the silkspan off the 109 and recover it with polyspan,, but of course that will slightly delay the rapid progress I was making,, 8)
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Yea, rapid. LL~
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Dude, no really, I can see my bench now,, and I actually took the 109 off the wall last week,, ok so it was to show it off, and I realized,, you know even in primer it feels pretty darn light. It actually motivated me again,, Maybe 2 years plus letting the primer dry actually was a good idea?
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Ok Mark, that's a start. Whatever you do, don't hang it back up. n1
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Wayne, I really liked working with it pretty well, It just didnt give the torsional resistance I wanted. On a C tube or D tube wing it would be awesome, in fact I thought it would be a decent idea to strip the silkspan off the 109 and recover it with polyspan,, but of course that will slightly delay the rapid progress I was making,, 8)
Hi Mark,
I've been conducting thorough,"non-scientific" research on coverings for I-Beam and pseudo I-Beam wings. I am thinking that light silk is possibly the very best covering for these. Greater torsion resistance and very good puncture resistance. Next would be silkspan then closely followed by polyspan. Not much difference in all three.
I have recently covered a large C-Tube wing with SLC and then Silkspan over it. So far this seems like a real good system for a C-Tube or D-Tube. Less dope needed to fill the silkspan top covering, and pretty stiff wing, with minimal weight gain.
BIG Bear
AMM
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Mark,
With the problems that I had with the Sea Vixen and the new silk span, I stripped it and finally used polyspan . In its finished state the Sea Vixen wing is now very rigid.
Remember that many of the I-beamers were covered with Jap tissue. The doped skin was about all that made them rigid. The paint is what does it.
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Tom,
I'm not too worried about the covering right now. In fact, it's looking more like the Avenger won't make the trip to Tucson. It might still, but it is less likely. Oh well, it will be a cool plane anyway.
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Tom,
I'm not too worried about the covering right now. In fact, it's looking more like the Avenger won't make the trip to Tucson. It might still, but it is less likely. Oh well, it will be a cool plane anyway.
WHAT? ??? Can't make it to Tuscon? Ain't that meet in April or something? 3-5 months out? You will have to be stripped of your "StuntHanger Top Level Painter/Finisher" status if that is too long to get a model finished from where you have it.
It's a disgrace, I tell ya, a disgrace!
LL~ LL~ LL~
BIG Bear
AMM
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Bill,
Oh, the plane will be done end of January, or first of February. But I'm not sure I can get the thing to Tucson. I'm still looking for a ride for it. Shipping it might be an option, but we'll have to see. I've already got plane tickets for me. ;D
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Bill,
Oh, the plane will be done end of January, or first of February. But I'm not sure I can get the thing to Tucson. I'm still looking for a ride for it. Shipping it might be an option, but we'll have to see. I've already got plane tickets for me. ;D
Whew........... good, your off the hook for now. ;D
Best wishes!
BIG Bear
AMM
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Hey my fantasy tells me I want to go toVSC, and if I do I will drive,, not sure that TWO of shultzies airplanes in the same vehicle is safe though,,
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They might talk each other to death.
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They might talk each other to death.
OK! OK! n1 n1....I DESERVE THAT REMARK!!! LL~ LL~ VD~ VD~ na#
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Bill,
Oh, the plane will be done end of January, or first of February. But I'm not sure I can get the thing to Tucson. I'm still looking for a ride for it. Shipping it might be an option, but we'll have to see. I've already got plane tickets for me. ;D
Would you be going and not competing then? VSC is a great event even just for spectating and socializing, but Randy with no airplane and not competing would be a shame on both accounts. Hope it works out somehow.
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Randy,
"They might talk each other to death." You can always wear earplugs! Sorry Shultzie!
I have still not flown the Sea Vixen, and only have a few flights on the Swift. Many other projects going for magazines and customers. It is going to be a fight with the winter weather and accompanying winds.
But, I am still planning n getting too VSC.
Hope to see y'all there.
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Oh, I'll be there. But it may just be as a spectator. We'll see. If I can get enough time off, I may drive myself, but probably not.
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Man, I hate doing cockpits. Oh well, it's just about ready for the canopy, I guess.
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Hey Randy, ship it to one of lthe locals and afterwards I will bring it back to Shawnee KS. LL~ LL~ LL~
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Well, the gear is done and the canopy is on. Just need to put the fillet on the canopy then get the cowl fitted and the tank built and I can start finishing the thing. Pretty light, too. Estimated final weight at this point (if I can keep my darned finger off the paint trigger) is below 50oz. I don't think I'll make Donnie's 45oz but I could be around 48 or so. We'll see.
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Randy:
Keep strokin'. Then remember to take advantage of Keith and/or RJ's offer. Remember that great old Country song: "Thank God and Greyhound She's Gone". #^
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Mike,
Well, Mark Scarborough may be driving and I'm hoping someone from Portland may be making the trip. But if not and I can get the plane and a crate done in time, I'll probably ship it by the dog and ask one of the guys there to pick it up. We'll see, I guess. Have the get the plane done first.
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Hi Brother Randy,
Kinda hijacking the thread, but how did the low rider come out? I missed it somehow.......
Thanks!
Bill
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Bill,
Well, it looks cool anyway. One flight on it and it seems OK but overweight. Will need a lot of trimming, I suspect. I plan to get a new engine for it in the spring (probably a RO-Jett 76).
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OK, time for more pics. At least it's light. Airframe as it sits there (sans cowl) is right on 21oz. That's about 2 ounces heavier than I wanted, but still in there. The cowl is roughed and just sitting there. Need to put hold downs on the thing and haven't decided how yet then it needs more shaping.
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Randy,
I am stoked, its looking good. It will be interesting to see them sitting side by side.
SHultzie will be beside himself when he has TWO of his models in the same place,, lol,,
pack a big hat pin in your flight box to pop his head LOL,,
Its making me want to build another one now,, of course then I look at all those ribs, and the sanding,, maybe a gypsy first,,
Its looking pretty sweet,, did you have fun coming up with a good way to do the tailwheel so it wont eat the lower strake over time?
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Mark,
Well, it's wrapped in copper tube (as it shows on Donnie's plans) and it's sort of reinforced in there with some plywood. Guess we'll see how it holds up.
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RANDY...That beautiful new Avenger is really LOOKING GREAT...and truly a RANDY-DANDY WORK OF CLPA SKY ART!
YES! I AM TRULY SOOOOOO HECKITY-DAMNED PROUD OF BOTH OF YOU AND MARK...AND YES! BRING ALONG THAT "HAT PIN!" I am truly honored that both of you have chosen to build and fly that old Classic....
If it hadn't been for the mentoring and encouragement from THE GIALDINI SCHOOL OF STUNT KINGDOME COME, THY WILL WOULD HAVE NEVA''EVA' BEEN DONE waaaay back in the late 60's that Avenger would never have been created in the first place.
I am pretty certain that Bob is equally proud of both these beautiful new Hybrid'S that you and Mark so beautifully have created. H^^ BW@ BW@
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Lookin' good Randy! It also looks like you'll shave a hint of weight with the cowl yet.
What color is the canopy??? ;D
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Calm down, Donnie. Wait till it's finished. ;D
Wayne: Blue.
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Great looking wood work Randy!
Bill
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Thanks, Mongo. I think I have the finish worked out. Nothing fancy. Well, maybe a bit of checkerboard on the rudder and .....
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Thanks, Mongo. I think I have the finish worked out. Nothing fancy. Well, maybe a bit of checkerboard on the rudder and .....
and here we go,, muah ha ha,, need some frisket masks cut Randy?
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Mark,
I use Avery 8665. It's easier to work with than Frisket and seems to seal as well or better. And it's a lot cheaper.
I'm just kidding (mostly). I plan to use Don's original white paint job.
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Alan R turned me on to "MacTac" ( sounds like something Alan would like huh?) LOL,,
it works better than Gerber mask, Frisket or other materials.
I have machine cut it, and hand cut it, its thinner and leaves a much smaller edge.....
aside from that, I know you are dedicated to making this one super-uber-light,, I will be anxious to fly them back to back in the same conditions and get a comparison of how they do at significantly different weights. Looks like at least a 10 ounce difference between yours and mine,, ( ouch)
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Mark,
Yea, but you have more horsepower. Some anyway. If I can keep it under 50 ounces, I'll be thrilled.
White. Red and blue stripes. Might shade those a bit. And something on the rudder and strake. Not sure what yet. We'll see. I have the graphics worked out and they are a bit fancy, but they will just be decals.
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Mark,
Yea, but you have more horsepower. Some anyway. If I can keep it under 50 ounces, I'll be thrilled.
By the way....My first nats 1967 Sting Ray with the smaller wing platform...weighted 52 ounces and flew well enough to glean me more than my share of hardware. (However...Bob G gave me the "fly with longer 68.5 foot lines..and run that Merco at a higher rpm. This way the longer lines...will give the illusion of a slower pattern that was somehow folks seem to think that is what judges were looking for in those early CLPA days of the 60's.
Check out the attached funny old photo of that First StingRay that I somehow slippppppppslid into a 2nd place finish behind Joe Dill and his Shark winged Crusader...at a contest at Renton's Boeing Field.
I had just returned from a Kansas City photo processing trade show...just in the nick of time.
Although I missed the first round flight...due to my late arrival...I picked my company car up at a near by storage SeaTac garage and raced over to Renton but GADS DID I GET A RIBBIN' FROM WEARING MY WHITE TENNIE' SHOES AND LONG BLACK SILK SOCKS...cuzzzzzz...I forgot to throw in my white socks in my Kansas City suit case.
(ALSO THAT WAS THE BEGINNINGS OF MY INFAMOUSLY QUOTE at more than just one contest!!!! ~^ ~^ n1
"MAY I BORROW A CUP OF FUEL?"
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I love Stinkrays.
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Here's a finish suggestion:
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Howard,,
now are you trolling to get Shultzie wound up again or what!!
I just noticed something about this "version",, it does NOT have enough ribs,, it doesnt count unless you have all 546 ribs in the wing,,
that and the canopy is,, well, to big and just wrong,, totally wrong,,
* please note I make no reference to the paint "scheme"*
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HOWARD! WOW!
GADS! Time flies...huh?
These two old Avenger photos you sent to my computer address at my old hidden away studio in the www.phantomworks.com don.l.shultz@boeing.com Boeing location. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back around 2000 somethin'?
Any chance of joggling my demented & heavily damaged brain cells....about the history of this Avenger photo that you took on one of your annual "World Cup Willy's with our USA Team members?
THAT PHOTO ALSO BRINGS UP SOME PRETTY SOBERING THOUGHTS ABOUT MY RETIREMENT IN 2004! OUCH!
Just days before I retired in May 30, 2004...the Boeing Computer Security wizards entered my locked studio (like theives in the night) even before they were scheduled============================
and quickly DELETED EVERYTHING. GONE FOREVER ,SHOT OFF INTO CYPERSPACE..so many years of special projects that I had been involved with...including the E mail and photos that Howard had sent me about this Avenger.
BUTT BOTTOM HINDSIGHT RULES!
I was warned about the possiblity of this taking place....from my long time friend..Roger Seaman, Director of Phantom Works and by the art director of special projects at an earlier goodbye luncheon, where both stressed that I should (soon as possible).... make up a folder of these favorite projects for my personal use and then quickly forward them to their office for review.
After which they would then make up a CD that I could safely remove and take home with me.
ALL SAD N' DUNG...HOWARD!
Any chance of remembering the story about this very strange and unusual Avenger and the history and fate of this CLPA modeler?
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Howard,,
now are you trolling to get Shultzie wound up again or what!! * please note I make no reference to the paint "scheme"*
H^^
HOWARD!
SEE WHAT HAPPENED....MARK WAS RIGHT HUH? LL~ VD~
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That plane belonged to Alfredo Morales of Spain. It was at the 2000 world champs in France, to which I went as B-17 crew chief.
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I love Stinkrays.
Guess ya gotta get used to that "FISHY SMELL?
Took this photo as Seaside Ore. kite fest this last year
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Hmm Randy, airbrush THAT onto your Avenger,, muah ah ha ha
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Hmm Randy, airbrush THAT onto your Avenger,, muah ah ha ha
Speeeeeeeaking of airbrush......!!! ;D
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sigh, I suppose you are poking ME again Wayne,,
what are you working on now, it IS building season after all,,
now returning to Randys thread intent,,
well is it covered yet Randy?
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Guess ya gotta get used to that "FISHY SMELL?
Took this photo as Seaside Ore. kite fest this last year
Don,
If you found a thing like that during a kite festival, I think I know what happened next. Yuck.
Lauri
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No, Mark, it isn't covered yet. I need to finish up the cowl. Haven't done much since the pics above. No time. Hope to get back to it tonight and get the cowl shaped and hollowed. I still don't know how I'm going to attach it, but I'll think of something.
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Don,
If you found a thing like that during a kite festival, I think I know what happened next. Yuck.
Lauri
We found this Ray....at the very south end of the Boardwalk...quite a distance from the staging areas but I needed to tweak in my HQ Shadow and then noticed this Ray that had washed up onto the beach at low tide just a short distance away.
(Yeh..I thought at the time...what an interesting duel line kite could be patterned after that "StinkRay" platform? :!
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sigh, I suppose you are poking ME again Wayne,,
what are you working on now, it IS building season after all,,
Mark,
Aside from watching and enjoying Randy's progress here, this is what I've been working on...
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=21117.0
It's been taking way too long for a little .15 size bugger, but I've only been at it on and off from the start. I do plan to be shooting color on it sometime next week though, it'll go really quick from there. y1
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Yeah that is pretty slow progress,, LOL
looks nice though,,
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I just love putting 4 hours into getting a cowl to fit. Jeez... But at least it's fitted now.
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do you have a way to hold it on yet?
oh,, and the pylon guys just hold theirs on with clear tape,, it works at 200 mph,, just sayin
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I just love putting 4 hours into getting a cowl to fit. Jeez... But at least it's fitted now.
That's not too bad I'd say, time consuming buggers that they are to get 'em right. Very crucial and satisfying part of a build though in my opinion. y1
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kinda like painting,,
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Right now, I can't get it loose. And building a cowl out of multiple pieces isn't working out so well either. Sigh...
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are you opposed to using the "Pat" method ,, carved foam,, glass , then hollow it out?
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are you opposed to using the "Pat" method ,, carved foam,, glass , then hollow it out?
Yep, hollow it out with a bit of lacquer thinner, or gasoline! Melts foam down to nothing.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM,
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Right now, I can't get it loose. And building a cowl out of multiple pieces isn't working out so well either. Sigh...
I thought you had it roughed out and attached at one point, like ready to carve to shape?
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Well, I had to thin it down so much to get it to clear the engine that it was pretty flimsy. So I got it pretty well together now, but went ahead and glassed it with some 3/4oz glass. When that's dry, I'll sand it and polish it up and wax it then do the final fitting. Then I can build the tank and put in the vent and get on with finishing it. Man, this part always drags.
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Boy, or should I say young man, I feel for ya. Finally getting a plug made for a canopy. Forgot everything I knew and have had a few talk sessions to myself over it. H^^
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Hi Doc,
It should be a couple weeks now and I will be pulling canopies on the machine I got from the Sawyer Estate. My treatments will be over in March and they say it will take a little bit of time for me to get back to "normal".
Don't know how much business is out there for canopies but I could pull canopies for others. I have several dozen bucks I received in the package along with enough clear plastic to probably last my lifetime! ;D
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Due some increased demands at work, no work on the plane this week. But I get off early today (and the crowd goes wild!!!) and I hope to get on it this evening. Joy!
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Been quiet here for the past few days, I was about to give you a poke to see what was up Randy. It sucks when that whole work thing gets in the way. y1
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Yea, I have to drive out to Spencer Aircraft tomorrow (maybe 2 hours each way) to get thinner and SuperFil. Hopefully I can get to it after that.
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Well, there's a monkey in the wrench. Spencer is out of lacquer thinner so I had to order from Aircraft Spruce. that won't be here till later in the week. Hopefully it will be here by the time I need it.
It's out to the shop for me.
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Well, there's a monkey in the wrench. Spencer is out of lacquer thinner so I had to order from Aircraft Spruce. that won't be here till later in the week. Hopefully it will be here by the time I need it.
It's out to the shop for me.
I hope you knew that before you drove the two hours!
I can relate Randy, same luck here with me trying to wrap up this pesky Challenger. The other night I was finally all ready to go gangbusters on the final painting and discovered that I didn't have the "star and bar" insiginias in my stash like I thought I did. I contacted Emily at CLC and she's on it and I should have what I need pronto. Cool, that's one fire out, thanks Emily.
Ok then, let's fire up the compressor and put on the white base color. That's when I realize that after one half-a$$ coat that I've just run out of that too. Called Brodak Friday morning and I'll have more here on Tuesday. I'm definitely at that point where can't wait to get it done and get on to something else. HB~> ;D
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Wayne,
Yea, thinking you have something then realizing you don't ... well, it sucks.
Here are some new pics. The plane is pretty much done and ready for finish. I have to build the fuel tank (though the vents are in - I got weird with those. The area is kinda limited. Just need final sanding and I can start finishing it. Good thing I have a bit of thinner left.
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Man that cowl had to be a major bee-atch to get right, looks like a super tight engine fit overall too. Very cool stuff Randy, thanks for the pics. y1
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Man that cowl had to be a major bee-atch to get right, looks like a super tight engine fit overall too. Very cool stuff Randy, thanks for the pics. y1
I like how we interpreted the cowl different,, and my cowl was really tight, lol in fact I had to turn some of the cooling fins off the head
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I'm not real happy with the exhaust vents and may play with them a bit more. The are in the correct position according to the plan but are not quite right. Other than that, it came out pretty well.
Mark, I'm using a smaller engine and the original 1 3/4" spinner so the nose is pretty tight. If I was using the original OS35S, it wouldn't have been such a tight fit. On the other hand, the air will cool the fins.
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I should have said. i weighed the plane minus the fuel tank. Everything else on the plane and right now it's right at 32oz. Say 1.5oz for the tank and I'm looking at 33.5oz prior the finish. Hey, I'll take a final flying weight of 45 or so ounces. More probably 48-50oz since there are no fillets yet or whatever. But hey, anything sub-50 should be killer.
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Sounding good, just gotta keep that trigger finger under control. Does "everything" include the prop and initial tip weight? What does one of those extra fancy C/F three bladers that you guys use weigh anyway?
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Wayne,
Well, here's a couple of pictures of the plane complete and ready to fly sans covering and finish. Includes prop, tank, wheels and all. Weight is 36.5oz. About 3oz heavier than I thought it would be, but should be sub-50oz if I can go easy on the finish. I already have some thoughts about that.
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Shouldn't be too much of a problem to keep it under 50 from there then, just hide all of those Lowrider magazines.
Looks like it's time to get out the covering! y1
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And Mark, you might notice the TV in the background of one picture. That's the Huskies putting a beating on the Cougs. And I loved the nose dive Ken Bone took trying to get the officials attention. ;D
Well, it's off to the shop for me and final sanding and starting the finish. WoooHooo!!!!!!
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I heard something about this,, hmm isn't that the game they play inside with silly long shorts on,, and some peach basket or something??
Its always a shame when the Huskies beat the Cougs,, but then I really care about next football season much more than this game,,
anyway,, get to sanding,, priming and such,, That thing needs to get done..
BTW,, guess what airplane now has parts on my bench,, being sanded,, y1
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Converted to electric?
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No, at least not yet,, this one is slated for another Magnum 53,,
I figure this one has been long enough, converting would certainly take a bit longer to complete,, maybe the next one?
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R U funnin' ME?????? S?P
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BTW,, guess what airplane now has parts on my bench,, being sanded,, y1
UM UM UM UM, WAIT A MINUTE, COULD IT BE???!!! (051) o2oP j1 (PE**) DK^
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wayne,, nope, I wasnt talking to you,, just go back to sleep,,, LOL
yeah, I actually got some sanding done last night, watching the football games
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Ok, I won't tell anyone. ;)
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OK, airframe is sanded and has two coats of clear on it. Progress.
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Brother Randy, it sure is looking sweet! That is one of my "more favorite" models that you have done. You are doing it proud!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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@ Bill
yeah but I bet his doesnt get to wear fishnet stockings like MY Avenger did,,
hmm thinking to myself here, mine is heavier,, wearing fishnets,, ok this is bad,,
anyway, Shultzie will probably have a caniption fit when both our Avengers show up at a contest together,, LOL,, that alone will be worth the effort,,
Randy, I bet you are just itching to get sanding between those ribs huh LOL
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@ Bill
yeah but I bet his doesnt get to wear fishnet stockings like MY Avenger did,,
hmm thinking to myself here, mine is heavier,, wearing fishnets,, ok this is bad,,
anyway, Shultzie will probably have a caniption fit when both our Avengers show up at a contest together,, LOL,, that alone will be worth the effort,,
Randy, I bet you are just itching to get sanding between those ribs huh LOL
Hi Mark,
Better have the EMTs on site for Schultzie!
Between the ribs: I suspect Randy will use 0000 steel wool........... ???
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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probably so,, but I could not get that to work to my satisfaction,, perhaps me needs education? LOL
Is ti done yet Randy?
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Hi Mark,
Better have the EMTs on site for Schultzie!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
"EMTZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ON SITE! H^^ LL~ LL~ y1 (051)
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I've pretty much finalized the paint scheme and it certainly won't be as involved as Mark's was (though Mark's is gorgeous). It will be pearl white with red and blue trim. I'm thinking about doing something with the fin ans sub-rudder but I haven't decided what yet. Whatever it is (checkerboard, stars, something) it will be subtle. Like white with a touch of gunmetal metallic or something. Probably get a bit of black outline on the trim (maybe) and perhaps some yellow highlight, but that is less likely. The basic paint scheme will be pretty simple and along the lines of Donnie's original all white Avenger.
Hey Mark, maybe you can build another one and call it the E-Venger. LL~
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E-venger,, hmm
well I will neither confirm or deny that I have considered building another Avenger,,
Of course I should likely finish up the ongoing projects ,, otherwise Wayne may come knock on my door,, LOL
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Knock-Knock... H^^
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"EMTZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ON SITE! H^^ LL~ LL~ y1 (051)
Just looking out for you, Brother Donaldo. With the gorgeous builds by Mark and Randy (I already know it will look flawless) both staring at you, it could get intense! LL~ LL~ LL~
Bill
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Randy..
Those paint schemes of yours...especially with your gift minds eyeballs...in working with graphics...IS SECOND TA NO ONE! JUST THE FACTS!!! MAN! H^^
HEY GUYS...
DUE TO THIS MASS SNOWSTORM BEARING DOWN ON US BY MORNING...THIS MAY BE THE LAST POSTS FOR A WHILE BEFORE WE CAN DIG OUR SELVES OUT OF THE SNOW DRIFTS AND THAW OUT FROM OUR NEAR 0 TEMPS. HOPE WE DON'T LOSE OUR POWER OR TOO MANY TREES FROM THE 60 MPH WINDS HEADING DOWN FROM "THE BERING SEA!!! ~^ ~^ %^ %^ %^ AP^
BYE THE WAY...THIS NEW WINDOW'S 7 INFESTED GRAHICS PROGRAMS ON MY FANCY NEW GATEWAY PUTER' REALLY SUCKS....COMPARED TO MY OLD EZ TO USE XP WINDOWS PROGRAMS
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Donnie,
Yea, not to bad on the cold and snow right now, but the prediction for tomorrow is 9-12 inches but the wind warning is less. I agree with Donnie, hope we don't lose power. If there's a foot of snow out there tomorrow, I will likely stay right here.
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sheesh, a foot,, well I guess we are used to it over here, LOL, My biggest problem is drifting, my 45 mile jaunt to work in the morning should be interesting,, across the rolling Palouse hills, it drifts pretty good. Some mornings we only get a couple inches of snow, but the drifts will be a couple feet thick from the funneling between the hilocks and cuts.
Tomorrow could be really entertaining since we are supposed to get up to a foot, with winds in excess of 25 mph,, wo hoo, Maybe I will get to stay home too,, LOL
You guys over there be carefull, It really sounds like its going to be VERY unpleasant on the west side,,
Hey Randy, this is how the Cougs get revenge for beating us LOL,,,,we send our snow over there
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Mark,
Yea, I posted a pic on the open forum. About 13 inches and it's still snowing like crazy. My office is open in Tacoma with folks that are within a few blocks, but they plan to close up soon. The problem isn't the snow, per se. I lived in snow country a long time and used to tootle off to work with 3 feet on the ground. But here there are limited snow plows and sand trucks, the roads are crowned for rain and the ditches on the side of the roads are deep for rain drainage. The other issue right now is that this snow is very wet. It's 100% humidity and windy so the trees are breaking and we have a couple of trees down on the road out of here. Luckily, my mountain man neighbor is out there with his man chain saw and is busily cutting up with trees so I should be able to get out of here and at least down to the store in a bit.
What fun.
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I'm think of a paint scheme something along these lines (pic posted by Yves Fernandez on facebook the other day). Not just like this, but similar in combination with Donnie's original scheme.
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I'm think of a paint scheme something along these lines (pic posted by Yves Fernandez on facebook the other day). Not just like this, but similar in combination with Donnie's original scheme.
I just have this odd feeling that whatever you come up with will be killer.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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We can all bet that there is no way this thing is going to get finished without getting "Randy-ized" to some extent. ;D
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I'm think of a paint scheme something along these lines (pic posted by Yves Fernandez on facebook the other day). Not just like this, but similar in combination with Donnie's original scheme.
Randy...Both YOU and Ted's paint schemes are always soooooooo darned tasteee!
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Well, the main airframe is covered finally. Only took 6 hours. And there's one coat of full taunting Randolph's on the wing. Hope to get the pieces covered tomorrow and get a couple of coats of clear on it.
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I don't recall Randy, do you use any sterate type fillers or anything?
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Wayne,
Sometimes. If I have time, I just keep shooting clear on until the paper is all filled. It's lighter and somewhat more durable. But in this case, I don't have the time (You really have to shoot no more than two coats a day of clear if you don't want it to just loosen the stuff underneath). So once I get it basically sanded and cleaned up and the fillets, I'll shoot a coat or two of clear, then shoot some filler/primer coat. I have it mixed up. Clear, thinner (50/50), add about 3oz of white dope and start mixing in black until I get a medium gray. Then add zinc sterate. I put in about 8 tablespoons for a quart. I'll thin it enough to get through the gun. I have a big DeVilbiss gun with a 2.2mm needle that works pretty well for primer.
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I have it mixed up. Clear, thinner (50/50), add about 3oz of white dope and start mixing in black until I get a medium gray. Then add zinc sterate. I put in about 8 tablespoons for a quart. I'll thin it enough to get through the gun. I have a big DeVilbiss gun with a 2.2mm needle that works pretty well for primer.
Thanks for the info Randy, I'm still trying to make up my mind about changing up my finishing prep routine a bit. To date I've had pretty decent luck overall, but I just keep thinking that maybe I should be doing a few things differently when it comes to finishing. The wall I continue to hit is that I'm a big time "if it ain't broke don't fix it" guy so I just keep with the same routine. I did buy some Aero-Fil a while back, but I still haven't tried it. This Challenger .15 was going to be my "guinea pig" for trying it but I chickened out at the end and just went with my normal process.
In your above description, how much 50/50 clear/thinner are you starting out with when you then add the 3oz of white and the rest of your mixed ingredients?
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Wayne,
Starting out with a quart jar, I fill it about half full with clear, non-taunting dope. Then pour in about 3oz of white dope then between 4 and 8 tablespoons of zinc sterate (depends on how I feel and the conditions on the amount of filler) then fill the jar the rest of the way with thinner. Then I put it in the paint shaker and mix it up. When I get ready to shoot the stuff, I thin it further until I can shoot it easily. Usually means about 50-80% more thinner depending on conditions. I also sometimes add a touch of silver but that depends on the base color.
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Thanks Randy, good info. y1
I wonder what Mark's doing tonite? S?P ;D
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wayne,, well My lady has been gone for four days,, so you use your imagination,, *hint* it involves the couch,, the tv, and a warm blanket,,
Oh and the 49rs game from yesterday, she is a fan,, so I recorded it for her,, and NO I DONT KNOW WHO WON YET
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wayne,, well My lady has been gone for four days,, so you use your imagination,, *hint* it involves the couch,, the tv, and a warm blanket,,
Well, um, I'm sure glad you didn't mention anything about a bag of Cheetos with that explanation. ;D
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Wayne,
Starting out with a quart jar, I fill it about half full with clear, non-taunting dope. Then pour in about 3oz of white dope then between 4 and 8 tablespoons of zinc sterate (depends on how I feel and the conditions on the amount of filler) then fill the jar the rest of the way with thinner. Then I put it in the paint shaker and mix it up. When I get ready to shoot the stuff, I thin it further until I can shoot it easily. Usually means about 50-80% more thinner depending on conditions. I also sometimes add a touch of silver but that depends on the base color.
Hi Randy,
For which "base color(s)" do you use the touch of silver?
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
Anything metallic. I plan to shoot some gray on this one prior to shooting the pearl white. Not solid, just a dust to help the white cover.
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Bill,
Anything metallic. I plan to shoot some gray on this one prior to shooting the pearl white. Not solid, just a dust to help the white cover.
Thanks, Randy! I can see what effect that would have.
What is roughly your pearl powder to color/clear ratio?
Bill
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Bill,
Usually around a teaspoon of dry pearl to a pint of clear. A bit more to color. Keep in mind that if you use too much, it can effect adhesion properties. In clear you want it suspended.
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Is that a pint of ready-to-spray clear?
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Howard,
Well, I shoot catalyzed polyurethane (4 to 1), so I usually mix it in a pint or so of paint then add the catalyst. For clear dope, it's ready to spray clear.
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OK, the fillets are on. After I got that done, I spent the afternoon getting some props cleaned up and some repitched. So there are 8 props (4 3 blades and 4 2 blades) and I have both 2 and 3 blade spinners all polished up. Hope to get the fillets sanded down tomorrow and start slopping dope on. should be ready for color by next weekend. Maybe sooner.
-
Keep that trigger finger under control!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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I will try, Bill. It's ready for primer (as soon as the clear on it dries anyway). I hope to shoot on primer tomorrow then let it sit for a couple of days then it will be the Zen of sanding.
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I will try, Bill. It's ready for primer (as soon as the clear on it dries anyway). I hope to shoot on primer tomorrow then let it sit for a couple of days then it will be the Zen of sanding.
Ahh........ Grasshoppa......... the Zen of sanding, you are doing well.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Well, no sanding yet. I went out last night to shoot primer, but decided that it really needed another coat of clear first. So, that went on (with an extra over the open paper) and will try to get out tonight or tomorrow to shoot primer. Sigh... Time's a wastin'.
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Do you hit the clear with 600-800 before the primer? Then what do you use to sand the primer?
Thanks
Bill
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Bill,
Sort of. I usually put on 2 or 3 coats of unthinned clear on the bare, sanded airframe. Then I sand enough to knock down any rough spots that come up but not serious sanding (that should have been done before the clear went on). Then I cover and put a coat of unthinned clear on (after the paper is dry and stretched out). Non-taunting over all the wood and taunting over the open bays. Then I usually sand the edges, paper overlaps and such. Generally clean it up. Then it gets between 2 and 4 coats of clear. This time with it somewhat thinned. Maybe 20% or so. This is so the clear flow out a little better. I brush to this point. The airframe should be somewhat shinny, even over the open bays. Then I will usually sand it a bit, but nothing serious. Just take down any runs (hope none) and any areas that have cropped up like areas around edges or in hinge pockets, etc. The I shoot primer. It's only after all that that the serious sanding starts. If you prepped the original surface well and cleaned up the edges, corners and such along the way, the primer should lay out flat and even. If you haven't sanded much, then all the low spots should be full of either primer or clear and block sanding it down should give you a nice, flat surface to paint.
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OK, the primer is on. Next up, the Zen of sanding. Joy!
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OK, the primer is on. Next up, the Zen of sanding. Joy!
YEHHH! RANDY-DANDLEEE' TOO COOL OR WHAT? ALMOST TIME TO UNLEASH YOUR MIND'S ARTFUL EYEBALL'S!!!
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8 hours of sanding and I'm half done.
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CRAP,
I have been sanding on my 109, but you are catching up ,, guess I know what to do during the stupid bowl today, at least between commercials,,
How is it sanding out Randy, are ya satisfied so far?
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Mark,
It's OK. I've been having to go back and touch up low spots as I go. I'm heading out in a minute. I'm sitting in front of the tube watching the New Balance indoor track meet and doing my taxes right now. Be done with that soon then will head out.
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The girls just went shopping, and Kyli is down for her nap, so I finally got around to patching the mysterious hole in the wing that appeared when there was a teenage sleepover some time ago,, Its pretty nice here today, high 40s and sunshine, so we have the door open for fresh air.
more sanding commences,,
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Mark,
Well, I ran out of steam but 6 more hours of sanding yielded some progress. Just the top of one wing and a flap to go. Once that's done (probably tomorrow) I'll clean it up and shoot some highly thinned clear on it, steel wool that a bit then shoot some gray I have mixed up. Just enough to cover the leprous look it will have with the sanded primer. Then the base color and we'll see what we have. I always forget how much work this is, especially when compressed into a short time frame. This thing really needs to be done in two weeks or so. I really don't want to do test flying in Tucson.
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Mark,
Well, I ran out of steam but 6 more hours of sanding yielded some progress. Just the top of one wing and a flap to go. Once that's done (probably tomorrow) I'll clean it up and shoot some highly thinned clear on it, steel wool that a bit then shoot some gray I have mixed up. Just enough to cover the leprous look it will have with the sanded primer. Then the base color and we'll see what we have. I always forget how much work this is, especially when compressed into a short time frame. This thing really needs to be done in two weeks or so. I really don't want to do test flying in Tucson.
WOW! RANDY!!
This brings back memories of traveling long distances in a car with a BRAND NEW...FRESHING PAINTED CLPA MODEL!
My old 67 and 68 traveling partner...the late Tim Dunlop and I both traveled across the country with BRAND NEW FRESHLY PAINTED STUNT MODELS....in the trunk of his HUGE WIDE TRACK BONNEVILLE PONTI-HORSE!
I CAN ASSURE YOU "TIME FLIES" WHEN YOU SPEND 8 HOURS OR LONGER....ESPECIALLY IN HOT WEATHER....AMAZING WHAT VISIONS APPEARS after SUCKING UP GASSING OFF DOPE FUMES that fill not only the interior of the car..but also enter our dope fume induced clothing and blood stream!
I remember stopping for lunch somewhere in Montana and as we were sitting at the food bar, the cook and other patrons....including the waitress... kept smelling some strange kinds of fumes or smells that were not only coming off our clothing...but also from our breath.
Talk about a CHEAP HIGH!!! n~ n~ n~ :X :X j1 Actually quite addictive...especially if you conbined that lunch break with a Raaaaaaaaaainieeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrr Beeeeeeer brewski..
As you can tell after reading this post...EVEN JUST THE MEMORY OF THOSE TIMES...Brings back memories..that still must be locked DEEPLY INSIDE MY DNA THIS VERY DAY!
~^ ~^ ~^ ~^
BOTTOM LINE:
CLEAN UP THAT PURTY SLIDER OF YOURS...AND ENJOY THE RIDE...DRUG FREE!!! SAVE THAT NEW AVENGER UNTIL A LATER DATE..
HH%%
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Donnie,
Hey, it will be Pete Peterson enjoying the, ah, aroma, of the Avenger. I'm flying to Tucson. ;D
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I'm not sure if Diana enjoys it so much!
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Actually, the topcoat will be catalyzed polyurethane. It won't be gassing off.
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Actually, the topcoat will be catalyzed polyurethane. It won't be gassing off.
Hummm?
Then Diana won't have to worry except maybe from Pete's personal passing gass offs & butt growls from too many quick food stops H^^
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Nice to hear you two are making some good progress, I was out of town for work this past weekend so I wasn't on the 'pooter at all.
And Mark, congratulations on your return to modeling! ;D :##
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Just a note. No work on the plane this week. Been a tough week in a lot of ways. Hope to get back to it tonight.
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Just a note. No work on the plane this week. Been a tough week in a lot of ways. Hope to get back to it tonight.
TOUGH WEEK?? :( H^^ MAY THE GREAT LORD TAKE A LIKIN' TO YA....instead of the LICKIN' TIMES of this week!
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Hope things are ok out there Randy. y1
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Wayne and Donnie,
Yea, just a tough week at work. I see some pretty ugly stuff. Just the nature of the job. But this week was particularly tough. Spent a lot of time with cops and very bad guys. Just sort of took it out of me. But I got back to the beast last night and and just a some spots I had to re-prime to sand today and it's ready for sealer. I'll do that today and get the blocking coat on. I'll post some pics later.
Edit
Adding a picture - ready for sealer.
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OK, it's gray now.
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OK, it's gray now.
Now fun can begin! (mask spray mask spray mask spray fix error mask spray mask spray clear clear clear...)
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Its looking good Randy, Cant wait to see how it all turns out. I am surprised how much difference it makes being that little bit narrower in the nose. ( I had to widen mine slightly to fit the Magnum in it)
Hmm man I really am tempted to build another one now,,
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Well, I inspected it this morning and unfortunately, the prep isn't done yet. Found quite a few spots that still need attention. So it's out with the wet and dry. Have to clean up several spots that will bug the crap out of me if I don't fix them. Then I'll use the air brush to reshoot those areas and then I can soot the white.
Edit
Well, 4 hours of sanding and painting and it's gray again. Still not thrilled with the surface, but it will due. But you have to love pearl gray.
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I can certainly relate to the "bug the crap out of me" stuff, but like we said earlier here Randy, watch that trigger finger!!! ;D
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Remember patience?? I think Randy was or has been introduce to her. When the surface is not right. Take a break and do something. Then come back and do it right. Now if only I would follow my own advice. H^^
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From pictures, it really looks smooth, Randy. Just don't forget to go light on the trigger! LL~ LL~
(AHHHHHH..............seems I remember something about Supersonic Stunter plans............... ;D )
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Bill,
Yea, I pulled them out but just haven't managed to get to the print shop yet. I will. Or you could come to VSC and I could hand them over personally...
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Bill,
Yea, I pulled them out but just haven't managed to get to the print shop yet. I will. Or you could come to VSC and I could hand them over personally...
You're on Randy! Send me a plane ticket and I'll be there! LL~ LL~ LL~
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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I think such a trip has to be self propelled. ;D
OK, mail it is.
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Well crap. Note to self, never, ever, ever put a fillet on before the silkspan again (slap my hand, I know better than that). I did the fillets on the rudder and sub rudder strake prior to covering. And now I'm have all kinds of issues. Last night I finally gave up trying to patch it and just used a knife, cut the covering all the way down each fillet (4 of them) and peeled up the covering. The used a bit of CA to make sure everything was tacked down tight, sanded and put filler coat all along the area. Will sand that and re-shoot gray ... again. Sheesh!
Maybe I can actually get the thing taped then and shoot the darned white.
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:( SH^ BW@
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Well crap. Note to self, never, ever, ever put a fillet on before the silkspan again (slap my hand, I know better than that). I did the fillets on the rudder and sub rudder strake prior to covering. And now I'm have all kinds of issues. Last night I finally gave up trying to patch it and just used a knife, cut the covering all the way down each fillet (4 of them) and peeled up the covering. The used a bit of CA to make sure everything was tacked down tight, sanded and put filler coat all along the area. Will sand that and re-shoot gray ... again. Sheesh!
Maybe I can actually get the thing taped then and shoot the darned white.
DUDE!!!
I hate it when I do something I KNOW BETTER than to do,, but do it anyway hoping it will work,,
well at least those fillets are only what,, 16 or 18 inches long or so?
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Good Luck with it Randy! I know it will come out perfectly.
Bill
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Well, it's white. I decided that with the time lost to fixing the darned fillets, I would just shoot the white and put the trim on and be done with it. I need to print off the decals and tape off for the trim colors but I should have it ready for clear within a week or so. Sheesh, what a pain in the backside.
But the white looks good, though.
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So you did get the fillets fixed up first though?
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Yes, Wayne, I fixed the fillets. HB~>
I'm heading out to start taping for trim. Luckily, because of the scheme, I can tape the whole thing then just uncover the part I'm painting at the moment. Should make it go faster.
Look, guys, don't expect a complicated paint scheme. I'm mostly copying Donnie's original white scheme. Some changes in color, but the overall scheme will be pretty much the same.
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Yes, Wayne, I fixed the fillets. HB~>
I'm heading out to start taping for trim. Luckily, because of the scheme, I can tape the whole thing then just uncover the part I'm painting at the moment. Should make it go faster.
Look, guys, don't expect a complicated paint scheme. I'm mostly copying Donnie's original white scheme. Some changes in color, but the overall scheme will be pretty much the same.
Randy...As you can see my MINDS EYEBALLS WERE PRETTY PLAIN PLANE AND SIMPLE....however knowing just how talented, beautiful and creative your paints schemes are---TRULY HOPE YOU GO WITH YOUR OWN MINDS EYEBALLS!
Looking forward to seeing another one of your beautiful and original RANDY-DANDY paint schemes! BW@ CLP** CLP** CLP** CLP** HH%%
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Yeah Randy, I assumed that you fixed the fillets first, but it sounded like it all went pretty quickly.
Countless times I've been tempted to do fillets before covering, but I think only because by that point I'm just anxious to do them. For some reason I always find doing fillets an enjoyable part of a build. Maybe it's because at that point you know you're getting very close to painting, which I also typically enjoy. However, you can't ever succumb to doing them before covering, you're just setting yourself up for issues. But we all knew that. :##
Looking forward to some more progress pics... y1
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OK, I lied. Not a complicated scheme, but I changed quite a bit from Don's original. It's taped and partly masked. Should be able shoot trim tomorrow.
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OK, I lied. Not a complicated scheme, but I changed quite a bit from Don's original. It's taped and partly masked. Should be able shoot trim tomorrow.
and we are all shocked LOL
seriously,, looking forward to it Randy,
I think I am finally getting closer on the 109,, despite the setbacks,,
I may have a codriver for my Tuscon adventure too,,,
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Talk Pat into it or recruit someone else?
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Thinking, Jessica may go with,,especially since the Sprint cup races in Las Vegas sunday after which is on the way home,, hmm maybe a good stopover LOL
Not for sure, but we are talking about it,,
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Mark,
Cool. I liked to see her again. Maybe you can get her to fly a Ringmaster again.
First trim color is on. I found out something. Finesse Pinstripping tape apparently has a shelf life. The stuff wrinkled up on curves. Not all over, but the adhesive was a bit gummy. So I had to peel up some areas and lay it down again with another tape. Gotta love painting. There's always something.
Edit
OK, it has two colors on it (not counting the base color). More tomorrow.
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A while back I think it was Randy talking about how he had liked the Finesse striping tape, at least at some level. Curious about the stuff I then contacted them and got ahold of their sample pack. It came quickly and was just a few short sections of some double stripe vinyl tape that looked like it would be used for doing the "generic" double pinstripes along fenders on new Buicks and Caddys etc. After looking at it for some reason I just wasn't impressed with the feel of it and I decided to stay with my trusty old blue 3M stuff. Sounds like it was a good decision. Thanks for the heads up Randy. y1
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Wayne,
I like the stuff because it's about the thinnest tape around. Leave almost no ridge. But it doesn't go around curves very well (especially inside curves) and as I've discovered, the adhesive is susceptible to getting gummy over time. Probably my fault as I was using an old roll. I broke out the stuff still sealed in the package and it was fine. A lesson there in making sure it's sealed up between uses. 3M tape is cool because it goes around curves really well, but it's a bit thick and leaves quite a ridge.
I use a lot of different tapes when taping for trim: 3M vinyl tape, the Finesse stuff, some really odd stuff I picked up at the paint shop that is a crepe type tape (like masking tape) with a lacquer edge that leaves a really sharp line and some other various stuff I've picked up along the way. I also use electrical tape because it can be cut into all sorts of shapes and never pulls up paint. I'm getting to the point were I can pick out the right tool for the right job.
Just as a sidenote, I found some stuff for doing masks that works better that Frisket or anything else I've tried. It's an Avery product: 8665. It's a sort of full sheet label stuff. I've been using it for doing stuff like checkerboard. Sticks really well, doesn't pull up paint, seems to be oblivious to clear shot over the top of it and so far hasn't leaked any paint underneath.
This paint scheme is quite different than previous stuff. No colors butt against each other so I was able to tape the whole thing at once, Sort of weird because I shot the first color, covered it up and shot the second color. There's a lot of bleed over the as yet unpainted areas, but it really doesn't matter since those areas will be painted with another color later. Just kinda weird compared to what I usually do, but a lot less labor intensive.
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And here's a picture. No snotty comments. They always look odd at this stage.
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Lookin' good from here! I can already see some swoopy "Randyization" in the design too. y1
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WOW!!!RANDY!!!! AWESOME!!! THAT RED SHOULD REALLY "POP!" in bright sunlight or under bright overhead lighting! Again... OUTSTANDINGLY BEEEUUUTEEEFUL "RANDYATION" trim art! CLP** HH%% BW@
Also... A HUGE VOTE OF THANKS!.... for sharing your paint progress with photos by allowing us to go to the POWELL ART SCHOOL OF PAINTING!
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There's a lot of bleed over the as yet unpainted areas, but it really doesn't matter since those areas will be painted with another color later.
But, but -- won't you be able to see it? Or are those "other colors" going to be something that covers real well?
And here's a picture. No snotty comments. They always look odd at this stage.
It looks fine to me. Nice color, inasmuch as I can tell after your camera, my screen, and then my partially color-blind eyeballs get done with it.
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Tim,
Not really. I used an airbrush for the trim and just try to not get too much paint on the not yet painted areas. Mostly just overspray. Now, if the next trim color was bright yellow or something, then I might cover it up if the previous color was something that might bleed through. But generally not a big deal.
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I think Sir Donald Do is starting to get a wet spot in his jammies!!
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I think Sir Donald Do is starting to get a wet spot in his jammies!!
LL~ LL~ LL~ Starting to?! ;D
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Hey lay off Donnie. He's just a little guy. LL~
Here's the next color. Sort of.
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Yeah, but wheres the fishnets? or lace,, or something,, I mean its white base,, WHITE? sheesh,,
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Randy,
Are you using pre-cut masks for this or are you laying it out freehand?
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Wayne,
Well, I'd like to say that I just used the Mark I Eyeball to set it up, but I'm not that good. I used templates to lay it out then marked the wing then used tape then mask. Wish I had one of those fancy mask cutters like Mark, but he's a lot more upscale than me.
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Randy,, Psstttt they aint that expensive,, and besides that, I offered to cut your masks for you anytime,,
and I aint so upscale, I just know when to cheat,, LOL
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I make my templates out of file folder or poster board. Seems to work ok. I just have to have them able to correct for the 1 1/2"-2" shorter outboard wing on some of the Classic models.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Mine were out of very heavy paper.
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LL~ LL~ LL~ Starting to?! ;D
"DONE AFTA' ONE...OL' MAN DONNIE, HUH? VD~ LL~ In truth...I am truly enjoying the progress of our Randy's beautiful new CLPA Classical Gas Ride for the upcoming season.
Brings back soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many great memories of those daze days gone by. when men & their new wives often wore "funny pants" CLP** BW@
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Donaldo:
"Funny pants", yeah. Them wuz the days. (Photos from Taft and Elsinore, CA, early '70s.)
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However in those early daze days...nothing was funnier than the European model magazine photos...TALK ABOUT THE MEN FROM FRANCE N ENGLAND (ESPECIALLY THE COMBAT AND SPEED CL FLYER PHOTOS...WHO SEEM TO WEAR NO PANTS! WAAAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION...TALK ABOUT LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ %^
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You think THAT'S funny, watch this! Goofy hat and all, 5th Place, Rubber Scale, 1979 Flightmasters Annual at the now-defunct Mile Square site. (Shirt and hat have since been trashed.)
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"DONE AFTA' ONE...OL' MAN DONNIE, HUH? VD~ LL~ In truth...I am truly enjoying the progress of our Randy's beautiful new CLPA Classical Gas Ride for the upcoming season.
Brings back soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many great memories of those daze days gone by. when men & their new wives often wore "funny pants" CLP** BW@
Just tossing in a little opportunistic jab there Donnie, with all due respect. I wish I would've been just a little bit older in what I call the "heyday" of the hobby. In every C/L category, designs from this era are the "real" models as far as I'm concerned. y1
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OK, for you unwashed masses, here it is with pretty much all the paint on. There's some overspray, a couple of spots that I'll have to back mask and reshoot (sigh...) and one spot that I'm having a slight meltdown about, but overall, not too bad. Fairly simple and, I think, effective.
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Yep, it looks painted LOL
nice job Randy, just enough of "you" to keep it honest
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Yep, it's got Randy written all over it. ;D What are the two little bumps on the nose out in front of the canopy?
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You call it simple, I call it elegant.
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Yep, I'm happy with it overall. Irritated about a couple of spots. I really need to get better tape.
Wayne: the "bumps" are covers for the uniflow and overflow vents. Made it easy.
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Was just wondering, they add some detail and look kind of cool.
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Randys plane has acne,, lol,,
I didnt even notice your nostrils Randy,, interesting,,bet it was fun routing the lines up to that spot huh,,
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Ohh yes randy you were right.. Very Ted Fancher :)
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Mark,
Actually, that was about the only place I could put them. It's pretty tight in that nose with the 1 3/4" spinner. I couldn't get the vents above the tank anywhere else. And it looks kinda cool.
PJ,
Yea, I liked Ted's idea and this was a chance to use it.
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I was real cool in my FFdays,late 50's. I am the guy bottom left ;D
Ed
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I happen to like that scheme, Randy! Just don't go too heavy with the clear now........ ;D
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Ed,
Well, to paraphrase an American Icon, Cool is as cool does. ;D
Bill,
Yea, I'm thinking about that. Trust me.
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THANKS RANDY! ESPECIALLY for keeping everyone here on STUNT HANGER with timely updating and SHARING SO FREELY your many years of building and finishing expertise with everyone during this beautiful Classic old Avenger that I had designed so quickly waaaaaaaaaaaay back in 1969 just a few weeks after getting back from the Philly Nats!
In those years.....you and everyone else can certainly plain plane to see just how much I was a DEDICATED and ADDICTED STUDENT from THE ROBERT GIALDINI SCHOOL OF CLPA!
After building my first Sting Ray waaay back in 1967 through 1969 and then After returning from that 69 nats.... I felt it was more than time to start thinking about a new personal CLPA model that would still reflect the flight characteristics of Bob's Sting Rays..but would give me a slightly larger sized (with more fuselage aft side area model that I could still be lucky enough to keep the weight around OR BELOW 5O ounces and also get rid of that Sting Ray trike gear that cost me so many take-off & landing points on rough or grass circles.
Sadly for me...Those beautiful Sting Rays.. over those years that DICTATED A SMOOOOOOOOOOTH LEVEL EVEN TAKE OFF AND LANDING FLYING AREAS.
Bottom line:
EVEN YEARS LATER I continued to BOTHA-N-BUG my beloved mentor BOB GIALDINI with soooooooo many late night LONG DISTANT PHONE CALLS! Bob was alway so helpful and encouraging during the AVENGER design daze-faze!
Shortly after the Avenger article appeared....I started recieving a few crank phone calls telling just HOW SHABBY it seemed that I chose to not to give more recognition and credit to Gialdini. in my article.
Actually without the good word from folks like Al Rabe, Bob Hunt, and Dave Gierke...n' the family of my long time fellow traveling partner the late Tim Dunlop (of whom I dedicated this AAM July 74 Avenger article)
I continued to inform these folks...that my AVENGER ARTICLE WOULD NEVER HAVE PUBLISHIED!
RANDY & ALSO MARK! AGAIN MY DEEPEST APPRECIATION TO YOUR CHOICE TO GIVE THAT OLD AVENGER CLASSIC....as your new Classic ride for this season!
I AM SOOOO HERKIN' PROUD OF THE BOF' OF YA!
CLEAR SKIES AND HAPPY LANDINGS AND WISH YOU BOTH SUCCESS IN THE NEW CONTEST SEASON AHEAD and PLEASE DON'T WEAR GARB N PANTS LIKE THIS OL' NURSE!
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Don,
If you came to VSC, you could bother Gialdini in person. I'm sure he'd love to see you.
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Don,
If you came to VSC, you could bother Gialdini in person. I'm sure he'd love to see you.
I know he has been there in the past.....I have his phone #!!!! I will give him a call....(Gary Lestinger and Bob also addicted me to SAIL BOATS during those days gone by...it would be great to see him?
Take photos for me...huh with you holding that New Avenger of yours?
(Just imagine how beautiful the reflection of the bright sun...off all those ribs will dazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzle n' razzzzzzzzzzzle all those ol' grunts down in SNOW BIRD COUNTRY? H^^
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Light doesnt reflect off of white NEARLY as nice as it does of gold candy and pearls,,
just sayin,,
still it will be cool to set the pair next to each other for a photo op,,
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That said, Randy, yours is definitevly lighter, and the white is truly more period correct than mine,, and I do like your color scheme,,
I just like to rib you,, ( pun intended)
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That said, Randy, yours is definitevly lighter, and the white is truly more period correct than mine,, and I do like your color scheme,,
I just like to rib you,, ( pun intended)
PUN OR NO PUN....
Both Randy's and your very own unique Avenger are truly beautiful and by the way...attached is a photo of Bill Werwedges 68-69 nats plane that sported the first pattern airbrush paint scheme that I had ever seen at the time which was beginning to show up on motorcycles at Sturgis...
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That plane of Werwage's ended up being stripped down and reworked and became, wait for it, the USA-1.
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That plane of Werwage's ended up being stripped down and reworked and became, wait for it, the USA-1.
Which IMHO, the best Classic Legal model there is....... use a "modern" engine in the .51-.60 size and you have all you need! IMHO, the plane would STILL be competitive at the highest Expert levels. Could even pipe it or use electric for modern PAMPA class use.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Which IMHO, the best Classic Legal model there is....... IMHO, the plane would STILL be competitive at the highest Expert levels. Could even pipe it or use electric for modern PAMPA class use.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
HA! LOL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ VD~ UHH? DO U MEAN TO SAY THAT OUR AVENGERS TODAY ARE NOT IN THAT CLASS? JUST RAZZIN YOU, BB!
Looks like I am going to start a rant that has been the main issue...when it boils down to comparing stunt model designs from the PAST to the stunt models of the PRESENT?
I can pretty much safely assure you that after seeing that orignial of Bill's USA-1 fly that same day IN PERSON.. in 69.
In all honesty = many CLPA airplanes that were just DAMNED LUCKY on that last day of the finals... not only this USA-1 (note the decal on the wing?) ...could easily be MORE THAN COMPETITIVE with many of today's top placing entries.... ESPECIALLY IF THE RIGHT ENGINE-TANK- COMBINATIONS OF TODAY'S LATEST ENGINE TECHNOLOGY.
Even after that...GUESS IT ALL BOILS DOWN...to not only the talent of the builder and flyer--not including the luck of the draw...and finally the FLYING CONDITIONS OF THAT WEIRD DAY OF WEATHER...THEN FINALLY, THE SUSPECT TALENT AND KNOWLEDGE OF A STAFF OF QUICKLY TRAINED JUDGES THAT DID THE BEST WITH THE PLAYING CARDS THEY WERE DELT!
Although everyone did their very best to help train these willing "held hostage Naval judges" who were not used to standing outside on a hot tarmac with bright sun or drizzle on their faces...thankfully they proved that they DID THEIR VERY BEST...and as PURE LUCK OF THE DRAW, for the most part many of us felt that at least any of those on that last day of finals could have captured the first 3 places at the award table.
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Brother Donaldo,
I completely agree that there are plenty of "older" designs that with today's power can compete at any level. Billy basically flew the USA-1 up until he started flying the P-47s. The Junar and Geo XL used USA-1 wings, modifying the LE to be blunter as he went.
I do believe the larger examples would be best suited since that is what everyone has become accustomed to seeing in the pattern.
Bob's Eclipse is a prime example..........
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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By the way, Mark. This white has pearls. ;D
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Brother Donaldo,
I completely agree that there are plenty of "older" designs that with today's power can compete at any level. Billy basically flew the USA-1 up until he started flying the P-47s. The Junar and Geo XL used USA-1 wings, modifying the LE to be blunter as he went.
I do believe the larger examples would be best suited since that is what everyone has become accustomed to seeing in the pattern.
Bob's Eclipse is a prime example..........
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Gads...IT SUCKS that my memory banks are fast dwindling down to a precious few: Here is another slide mount that I have marked as a 69 nats..photo of Bill with another USA-1 which perhaps was the one he used on that finals day in 69? Hummm? THIS SEEMS TO BE THE LATEST VERSION HE WAS FLYING IN 69? Time to dig out those slide again..I took more photos from the 69....
HEY BOB HUNT WHICH HAS MY LEFT BRAIN BANK PICKLED IN AN OL FRUIT JAR....! STEP IN HERE?
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That plane of Werwage's ended up being stripped down and reworked and became, wait for it, the USA-1.
The reason I am confused about the date on the slide...is that Bill used that updated oversized Red Super Aries of his at the Olatha 68 nats? Humm? bad brain memory cells,huh?
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Gads...IT SUCKS that my memory banks are fast dwindling down to a precious few: Here is another slide mount that I have marked as a 69 nats..photo of Bill with another USA-1 which perhaps was the one he used on that finals day in 69? Hummm? THIS SEEMS TO BE THE LATEST VERSION HE WAS FLYING IN 69? Time to dig out those slide again..I took more photos from the 69....
HEY BOB HUNT WHICH HAS MY LEFT BRAIN BANK PICKLED IN AN OL FRUIT JAR....! STEP IN HERE?
That is the same USA-1 that had the lace pattern. Billy didn't like the tail (rudder) on his USA-1 so he stripped it and refinished it with a new rudder shape which it still carries.
He built an entirely different (wing) USA-1 in the early '80s which he finally figured out didn't fly as well as his original.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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That is the same USA-1 that had the lace pattern. Billy didn't like the tail (rudder) on his USA-1 so he stripped it and refinished it with a new rudder shape which it still carries.
He built an entirely different (wing) USA-1 in the early '80s which he finally figured out didn't fly as well as his original.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Then after that 68 model of Bill's that new 69 nats USA-1 model must be similar to Jerry Worth's 68 model...huh? (they look very very much alike huh?
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Wish I had kept better records and had marked those slide mounts...waaay back then in the dark ages of stuntdomedumb n~
I can clearly see Jerry Worth's name on this close up of Jerry's model. Plus Jerry and I were really into 3 blade props in those days...in order to have more ground clearance.
by the way...who's model is this one with the covering on the nose? Is this a modified USA 1 or someone else?
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Billy said he really liked the aesthetics of Jerry's model but used his own aerodynamics.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Billy said he really liked the aesthetics of Jerry's model but used his own aerodynamics.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
by the way any idea who this last model that looks very very very much like a HAND ME DOWN BILLY USA-1 or a JERRY WORTH HAND ME DOWNER?
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n~SORRY TO RANDY AND GANG...FOR WANDERING OFF YOUR BEAUTIFUL AVENGER POST! R%%%% n~ This happens a lot with me...when I hear that SO MUCH IMPROVEMENT AND CHANGE HAS HAPPENED IN CLPA DESIGN since the vintage days of JET STYLE STUNT MACHINES?
HEY ALL U NEWBEEES....BE FOREWARNED!!!
This post is a PRIME EXAMPLE of what can happen to old STUNT GRUNTS that over the years, that do not take enough safety precautions-----SUCKIN UP TOO MANY TOXIC PAINT FUMES, BAD BREWSKIS.......N ENDLESS HOURS SPENT UNDER A GLARING HOT SUN WITHOUT A HAT OR SUNBLOCK PROTECTION? 010! DK^ %^ f~ They shoot horses don't they??? NO!!! NO!!
RANDY'S BELOVED LOVES HORSES?
NOW I AM IN REAL TROUBLE!!!
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The "After You" was built and flown by Dan Schaffer.
Dan was influenced by Billy but I think the numbers were his.
Dan was pretty active around Ohio in the mid seventies and I'm sure Dennis Adamisin could provide more detail about him.
Sorry for the hijack but it's Shultzies fault.
Hey Randy, I want to thank you personally for taking us all along on your Avenger build.
There's something special about following a worldclass craftsman on a project like this.
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Well, Les, if you make it to VSC this year, you can judge live and in person. I just hope I get the thing done in time to actually have some test flights before I go. The ride for the plane is leaving March 8, so that's the deadline.
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Thats only 2 weeks time...................
VD~
Id get into gear - less typing more buffing.
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PJ,
Right now it's fixing. Just once I'd like to paint trim on a plane, pull the tape off and say, looks good, I can go to the next thing.
I should have it done (or as done as it's going to get) by the middle of next week. If my repair work last night is good, just need to finish up a couple of additional trim spots then I can move onto lettering and inking. The ink will be minimal; a mere token and I don't really have the time to do it right, but that's life. Will just need to get some marginal weather to shoot clear.
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Well, more back masking and repainting. Yuck!
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Well, more back masking and repainting. Yuck!
Still better than a day at work. y1
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The ink will be minimal; a mere token and I don't really have the time to do it right, but that's life.
As Buffalo Springfield said, "There's panel lines being drawn. Nobody's right if everybody's wrong."
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As Buffalo Springfield said, "There's panel lines being drawn. Nobody's right if everybody's wrong."
THANKS HOWARD!!! I WAS THINKING EXACTLY THE VERY SAME THING-EEEE! (Speaking of panel lines..attached is a couple of photos of my favorite all time PANEL ART PEOPLEEZZ!
Note the last photo showing the Novi 4 but so sad to see two beautiful models behind Dave's beautiful Novi..is Kostecky's amazing entry and then followed by Bob Barons radical CLPA model that turned sooooooooo many heads and bent the minds of a gaggle of traditional CLPA addicts after seeing how beautifully Barons little "Hummmbug' flew that day.
So sad to say that Jim K and Bobby B has passed this life all too soon.
Equally sad to say that I never had the chance to fly or talk with these two amazing ICON after that year's nationals was over.
However they remain in our hearts until hopefully we meet again... BW@
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One of the drawbacks to being pressed for time is you foolishly make mistakes. Sigh...
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Randy, right now I would be ecstatic to just be able to work on a model................
Bill
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One of the drawbacks to being pressed for time is you foolishly make mistakes. Sigh...
dude, what happened,,
the faster i go, the behinder I get,,
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Mark,
I put on the decals. I went ahead and shot clear over the trim and thought I'd shoot a light coat over the decals. Yeah, that was a great idea. The decals are destroyed, so I printed up more decals and shot acrylic over them. Of course I went too fast and the decal bled. And I'm out of ink in the printer. Sigh...
This thing has a curse on it. Oh well, after I calmed down, I went down to Staples and got more ink and printed up another decal. Pulling up the old decals ended up screwing up the base color so I've already re-re-re-re masked the thing and re-shot the white. Tomorrow I'll shoot acrylic on the decals and hopefully but Monday I'll be able to put them on.
That shoots heck out of any chance of flying it next weekend. Looks like it will get it's maiden flight in Tucson.
Joy!
Maybe I'll just spectate.
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Arrgh, but still better than a day at work. y1
On the whole panel line thing, I'd really like to start doing some on my models but I just haven't ever retained that ambition level by that point in a build yet. It's a lot of work to do it "right".
Not that anyone cares, but here's my two cents on the panel line subject in general. Just consider it some constructive criticism...
I feel that unless the lines are to represent accurate, believable, and sensible details on the model as it would be compared to a real full size aircraft, that it is better to do no lines at all. Trim tabs drawn smack in the middle of a wing flap or aileron for example just look like there is no real knowledge by the builder of real aircraft. Measuring out a section of fuselage, wing, stab or whatever then dividing by five and drawing lines there just because is simply way too generic and "cheapens" things. If one is going to do it, placement of lines and details should add to the model as realistic details. Unless the time is taken to think it out and do it that way it's much better to just leave it clean, and a lot less work. Studying quality scale three-view drawings is a great way to get a feel and idea of what to do on one of our models.
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Wayne,
good points all,, I will of course be doing just that when,,,( if ever,, sigh) I get to that point with the 109,, now, can you help me find a 3 view of an Avenger please/ VD~
seriously though, I get your point,,
Randy,, dude,, deep breaths,, you can do this,, by the way, I am all set for VSC now, registered, hotelled, codriver, oh and Vegas race tickets ;)
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Arrgh, but still better than a day at work. y1
On the whole panel line thing, I'd really like to start doing some on my models but I just haven't ever retained that ambition level by that point in a build yet. It's a lot of work to do it "right".
Not that anyone cares, but here's my two cents on the panel line subject in general. Just consider it some constructive criticism...
SPOKEN LIKE A REAL DIED DEAD IN THE WOOL "SCALE MODEL ADDICT!" BUT LET'S GET REAL ABOUT PANEL LINES ON CLPA MODELS.. LL~ LL~ LL~ While you are R%%%% about panel lines...
I ASK ANYONE?????HONESTLY!!!
.WHEN was the last time any TRUE SCALE MODEL JUDGE worth his salt....will tell you that even on the most carefully made inked panel lines on SCALE MODELS----AT LEAST 99.999999999999%for the most part... MISS THE REALISM MARK!
HOWEVER THAT SAID, SAD N' DUNG...
Again it a personal issue..and my preference only!!! I have always and ONLY utilized INK LINES SIMPLY just to accent not only the artistic visual patterns of flow of the model design but mainly the paint trim lines of the CLPA model itself.
OK! QUESTION?
SHOW ME ANY FULL SCALE AIRPLANE ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET THAT WOULD APPEAR REALISTIC IF IT CONTAIN "INKED PANEL LINES!....At least for most model scale judges will tell you that even the most carefully INKED panel lines on a model TAKE AWAY from the realism!
bottom line:
INK LINES...ARTFULLY WELL DONE (TO MY EYES ONLY) if they follow the flow of both the model and the paint scheme...REALLY ARE WORTH THE EFFORT..EVEN THOUGH THEY DO STAND THE RISK OF MESSING THE MINDS OF MAJORITY OF THE MOST PICKY PICKY AND GIFTED SCALE MODEL JUDGES YES! I AM SHOUTING!!! HB~> HB~> n1 n1 H^^ H^^
attached is a beautiful model...THAT IS??? at least up to the point of adding panel lines----(not to be mean..see what I mean (at least from a scale judges viewpoint?)
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Guys, it will most likely be trim tab sorts of inklines. I don't have time to "do it right" so they will just be token lines. That's if I can ever get the darned decals to work right.
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Guys, it will most likely be trim tab sorts of inklines. I don't have time to "do it right" so they will just be token lines. That's if I can ever get the darned decals to work right.
Randy!
Sorry for MY PANEL LINE RANT gang...and I agree that your TIME LINE dictates...going lean with the ink lines.. is totally the way to go right now.
For example On my old busted Chipmunk...I test flew that model fully painted with only a very very light coat of clear..trimmed it carefully as I could AND THEN wiped it down carefully with a prepsol type of cleaner...used a mix of BonAmi and wet rubbed it carefully...THEN ADDED MY INK LINES with my India ink rapid-o-graph ink that contained the etch additive made for mylar.
Even then...I too had to rush the ink lines....because I needed it finished for the upcoming BEST OF SHOW event after the grand opening of the SEATTLE KING DOME just 5 days away.
WOW!
I just looked at my old Winning Silver platter hangin on my studio wall a few minutes ago...THAT WAS WAAAAAAAAAAAY BACK IN 1978! OUCH!
Note PG...pointing to a "flaw in my ink lines or that well hidden decal covering the puncture when a certain stunt judge leaned over my new model...to take a closer look just before his heavy scoring pen..fell out of his shirt pocket...POKING A HOLE ALL THE WAY THROUGH BOTH THE TOP AND BOTTOM LIGHT WEIGHT SILK SPAN FRESHLY CLEAR COATED PAINT JOB! LL~ LL~ LL~ SH^
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Yeah Randy, watching this I figured that's where you'll end up on this one given the time constraint you're trying to deal with. Actually it's a lot of the reason I threw my two cents in on the panel line subject, so that you wouldn't feel quite so bad if you didn't fit them into the schedule. The Avenger will still look awesome even if it doesn't get them.
You've got some great points above too Schultzie, but I wasn't trying to say that the lines need to adhere to, or have much to do with Scale models. Studying scale drawings and paying attention to the panel details on real aircraft are an excellent way to get familiar with what "believable" lines would be for our CLPA applications though. I'm only suggesting that if the lines are done on any model the focus should be to have them represent realistic and "believable" details like would be seen on a full size version of the type, if there were such a thing.
Lines or not you'll get there Randy, just a few more deep breaths like Mark says. Keep on truckin'! y1
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OK, the inklines are on (such as they are) and it's ready for the decals. The acrylic is drying on them as we speak. another hour and I can cut them out and put them on. A quick check and a good cleaning and it will be ready for clear. Just have to figure out how I'm going to do that.
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Arrgh, but still better than a day at work. y1
On the whole panel line thing, I'd really like to start doing some on my models but I just haven't ever retained that ambition level by that point in a build yet. It's a lot of work to do it "right".
Not that anyone cares, but here's my two cents on the panel line subject in general. Just consider it some constructive criticism...
I feel that unless the lines are to represent accurate, believable, and sensible details on the model as it would be compared to a real full size aircraft, that it is better to do no lines at all. Trim tabs drawn smack in the middle of a wing flap or aileron for example just look like there is no real knowledge by the builder of real aircraft. Measuring out a section of fuselage, wing, stab or whatever then dividing by five and drawing lines there just because is simply way too generic and "cheapens" things. If one is going to do it, placement of lines and details should add to the model as realistic details. Unless the time is taken to think it out and do it that way it's much better to just leave it clean, and a lot less work. Studying quality scale three-view drawings is a great way to get a feel and idea of what to do on one of our models.
Hi Wayne,
I agree with you on your thoughts about ink lines. Some guys can ink line a Lawn Dart and make th elines look like they belong there. Gene Martine is one of those guys.
If it is a semi scale plane I am doing, I usually have a plastic scale model of it, and I go by the panels lines on it. On Lawn Darts, I don't do ink lines too much..........
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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OK, I think it's ready to clear. Sheesh what a frustrating weekend, but hey, what finish comes off without a hitch and a little yelling and screaming?
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Guess it's the flash, I can't see the inklines in the picture.
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Looks like you can almost let that breath out now. ;D What does it say on the stab?
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Wayne,
That's a very, very long story. It's one of those things that if you don't know, you don't know. What is says is: Death to the Kranolta! It's a toasts used by the Basik's Own. It's a Military thing.
;D
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Looking REALLY good Randy, I'll bet you will soon hear the cheers from Gig Hahbah...
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Looking REALLY good Randy, I'll bet you will soon hear the cheers from Gig Hahbah...
SPEAKING OF BOTTOM LINE!
RANDY! AMAZINGLY BEEEEEUUUTTTTEEEFUL CLPA ART AT ITS FINEST!
(PE**) CLP** BW@ HH%%o OOOPS! CLPA GANG!!! TOO LATE!!! I THINK I JUST WET MY PANTS!!! %^[/b]
HH%% HH%% HH%% HH%%
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Don,
Well, it's certainly different from Mark's unit.
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Randy,
Very elegant, not over stated. Looks wonderful!
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Don,
Well, it's certainly different from Mark's unit.
RANDY!
I AM SOOOOOOOOOOOBLOWN AWAY just how beautiful this Avenger of yours has turned out! LV YOUR ARTISTIC COLOR SCHEME AND DESIGN! To me...YOU NAILED IT AND ENHANCED THE MODELS LINES AND CURVES PERFECTLY! I can assure you that once this model is tweaked..trimmmmmmmmmmmmmmed to your LIKING! HOPE YOU HAVE AS MUCH SUCCESS AND GREAT FLIGHTS WITH THE AVENGER AS I DIDDE-DOOOD IT THOSE DAYS.
GOING TO THE SCHOOL OF GIALDINI and learning to follow HIS CONCEPT IDEAS for STUNT starting for me in the winter of 1966 and through those year until 1970 was truly a gift and a blessing that I will remember until the day----------- hopefully we shall all meet again.."above the earth and sky...where the CLPA angels dare to fly."
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Calm down, Don. It will be OK. LL~
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Calm down, Don. It will be OK. LL~
DK^ DK^ 010! 010! YES! I HAD TO CHILL...TAKE A PILL! WHAAADDDAAAATHRILL! LL~ LL~ LL~ #^
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OK, the clear is on. Now comes the fun part: sanding, polishing, etc. Always a good time.
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Glad you got it cleared Randy,, Hope the polish process goes SMMMOOOTTTHHHH for you,,
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Ahh, the clear is on with no further issues? Whew!
Glad to hear it Randy, I was a little worried last night when you said you were waiting another hour or whatever for the decals to dry so that you could shoot clear. I was hoping things weren't going too quickly, and then the clear chewing up the decals or something.
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Wayne,
We'll see. The clear is drying now. I'll take a look before I hit the sack. Looked good when I finished, but hey, you never know.
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Looking great Randy! How about a look at the bottom?
Thanks
Bill
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Looking great Randy! How about a look at the bottom?
Thanks
Bill
Bill, isnt that just a touch personal,,,, LL~
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Bill, isnt that just a touch personal,,,, LL~
Well.............. I am talking about the model airplane's bottom side. Aren't you?
LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Randy...I like it! Any time you're ready to test fly it (at Auburn Muni), holla! y1 Steve
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Bill,
I don't get home till late tonight so no work on the plane. But I'll shoot some pics of all sides after I get it rubbed out and assembled.
You could also look up-thread. There's a pic of the bottom after I finish the trim paint.
Steve,
Well, if I can get it assembled and such by Saturday or Sunday, I'd like to at least test fly it before handing it off to Pete.
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Bill,
I don't get home till late tonight so no work on the plane. But I'll shoot some pics of all sides after I get it rubbed out and assembled.
You could also look up-thread. There's a pic of the bottom after I finish the trim paint.
(snip)
Gee, Randy, only ten pages of posts here...... but I went back to pg.7 and found one pic that shows the engine opening and bifurcated openings......... nothing else..........
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
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Bill,
Well, that's about the only interesting part of the bottom. LL~
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Can we say Bifurcated in public??? n1
It's looking sweet Randy. I'm so looking forward to seeing you and that other guy from over the hills in Tucson. #^
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Well, I took the jig off the nose last night and weighed the beast. Not too bad overall. About 4oz heavier than I had hoped and 2oz more that it should have been, but not too bad at all. Should be a good flier.
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I think we should see some more pictures.
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Howard,
I'll post some more when I get it rubbed out and assembled. Hopefully by Saturday.
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Well, I took the jig off the nose last night and weighed the beast. Not too bad overall. About 4oz heavier than I had hoped and 2oz more that it should have been, but not too bad at all. Should be a good flier.
I think every model comes out at least four ounces heavier than hoped and for sure two ounces heavier than it should have been. ;D
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And rubbing and rubbing and rubbing.....
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hey at least your done with the sanding sanding sanding,, LOL
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Bill,
Well, that's about the only interesting part of the bottom. LL~
LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
BIG Bear
RNMM/Amm
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Have you double checked the control system yet????????????? S?P
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Doc,
The controls system was actually a transplant from the Novi I built. At least the bellcrank and pushrod. New horns. And yes, it's solid. Some things happen and you tend to go for overkill.
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Randy, did you demo the green popsicle to salvage the controls? I thought you were repairing that one,,
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Mark,
The crash demoed it. I just elected not to repair it.
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I kinda figured,, now quit typing and assemble,, polish and prepare,, Its gonna be a gunfight LOL
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I think it's safe to say, so many of us can appreciate Randy's craftsmanship. With over 4600 views of this thread, we are all waiting to see it assembled. Shultzie really hit the mark with this design, it's just a beautiful airplane! These 2 builds in recent years are just absolutely outstanding renditions of this plane. Best of luck to Randy and Mark at VSC this year!
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Well, see the open forum for the final outcome. I don't suppose anyone is ever really happy with with a plane. There's always something not to like and I know where all the bodies are buried, but overall, it's not too bad.
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DV^^ DV^^ DV^^ DV^^ DV^^
Well, see the open forum for the final outcome. I don't suppose anyone is ever really happy with with a plane. There's always something not to like and I know where all the bodies are buried, but overall, it's not too bad.
RANDY, RANDLE DANDY!!! "NOT TOO BAD?" BAA-BAAA-BAD TO THE BONE! IN EVERY GOOD SENSE OF THE WORD!
CONGRATULATIONS! TO THIS OL' GRUNT...THIS NEW CLPA MODEL OF YOUR'S IS TRULY A MASTERPIECE! (PE**) CLP** CLP** CLP** CLP** CLP** CLP** CLP** HH%%
(NOT THAT I AM A BIT "BIASSSST'D' (051)
MAY GOOD FORTUNE SHINE APON YOU...IN THE SUNNY TUCSON LANDS!
THANK YOU RANDY...for taking on such a project with that old Avenger design. I only hope that you'll have as many great moments in flying time with that model...as I enjoyed so long ago.
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Great job Randy, with a deadline to boot! Rushed planes always seem to come out lighter for some reason...Probably has something to do with having less time to over engineer, add extra glue, paint, clear, etc. LOL!
She's a looker, for sure. It's fun seeing Donnie have a litter of kittens over it. ;D
Have fun at VSC!
EricV
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Shame you're not coming, Eric. Should be fun.