Author Topic: So it begins - Avenger 35 (Read 36374 times)

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #200 on:** December 19, 2011, 07:36:07 PM »

Wayne, I really liked working with it pretty well, It just didnt give the torsional resistance I wanted. On a C tube or D tube wing it would be awesome, in fact I thought it would be a decent idea to strip the silkspan off the 109 and recover it with polyspan,, but of course that will slightly delay the rapid progress I was making,,

Randy Powell · « **Reply #201 on:** December 19, 2011, 09:00:14 PM »

Yea, rapid.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #202 on:** December 19, 2011, 11:06:16 PM »

Dude, no really, I can see my bench now,, and I actually took the 109 off the wall last week,, ok so it was to show it off, and I realized,, you know even in primer it feels pretty darn light. It actually motivated me again,, Maybe 2 years plus letting the primer dry actually was a good idea?

wwwarbird · « **Reply #203 on:** December 19, 2011, 11:13:53 PM »

Ok Mark, that's a start. Whatever you do, don't hang it back up.

Bill Little · « **Reply #204 on:** December 20, 2011, 08:36:29 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on December 19, 2011, 07:36:07 PM

Wayne, I really liked working with it pretty well, It just didnt give the torsional resistance I wanted. On a C tube or D tube wing it would be awesome, in fact I thought it would be a decent idea to strip the silkspan off the 109 and recover it with polyspan,, but of course that will slightly delay the rapid progress I was making,,

Hi Mark,

I've been conducting thorough,"non-scientific" research on coverings for I-Beam and pseudo I-Beam wings. I am thinking that light silk is possibly the very best covering for these. Greater torsion resistance and very good puncture resistance. Next would be silkspan then closely followed by polyspan. Not much difference in all three.

I have recently covered a large C-Tube wing with SLC and then Silkspan over it. So far this seems like a real good system for a C-Tube or D-Tube. Less dope needed to fill the silkspan top covering, and pretty stiff wing, with minimal weight gain.

BIG Bear
AMM

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #205 on:** December 20, 2011, 09:25:57 AM »

Mark,
With the problems that I had with the Sea Vixen and the new silk span, I stripped it and finally used polyspan . In its finished state the Sea Vixen wing is now very rigid.
Remember that many of the I-beamers were covered with Jap tissue. The doped skin was about all that made them rigid. The paint is what does it.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #206 on:** December 22, 2011, 02:33:11 PM »

Tom,

I'm not too worried about the covering right now. In fact, it's looking more like the Avenger won't make the trip to Tucson. It might still, but it is less likely. Oh well, it will be a cool plane anyway.

Bill Little · « **Reply #207 on:** December 22, 2011, 03:26:48 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on December 22, 2011, 02:33:11 PM

Tom,

I'm not too worried about the covering right now. In fact, it's looking more like the Avenger won't make the trip to Tucson. It might still, but it is less likely. Oh well, it will be a cool plane anyway.

WHAT?

Can't make it to Tuscon? Ain't that meet in April or something? 3-5 months out? You will have to be stripped of your "StuntHanger Top Level Painter/Finisher" status if that is too long to get a model finished from where you have it.

It's a disgrace, I tell ya, a disgrace!

BIG Bear
AMM

Randy Powell · « **Reply #208 on:** December 22, 2011, 05:43:52 PM »

Bill,

Oh, the plane will be done end of January, or first of February. But I'm not sure I can get the thing to Tucson. I'm still looking for a ride for it. Shipping it might be an option, but we'll have to see. I've already got plane tickets for me.

Bill Little · « **Reply #209 on:** December 22, 2011, 05:49:00 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on December 22, 2011, 05:43:52 PM

Bill,

Oh, the plane will be done end of January, or first of February. But I'm not sure I can get the thing to Tucson. I'm still looking for a ride for it. Shipping it might be an option, but we'll have to see. I've already got plane tickets for me.

Whew........... good, your off the hook for now.

Best wishes!
BIG Bear
AMM

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #210 on:** December 22, 2011, 07:09:45 PM »

Hey my fantasy tells me I want to go toVSC, and if I do I will drive,, not sure that TWO of shultzies airplanes in the same vehicle is safe though,,

Randy Powell · « **Reply #211 on:** December 22, 2011, 08:07:28 PM »

They might talk each other to death.

Shultzie · « **Reply #212 on:** December 22, 2011, 09:09:26 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on December 22, 2011, 08:07:28 PM

They might talk each other to death.

OK! OK!

....I DESERVE THAT REMARK!!!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #213 on:** December 22, 2011, 11:19:31 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on December 22, 2011, 05:43:52 PM

Bill,

Oh, the plane will be done end of January, or first of February. But I'm not sure I can get the thing to Tucson. I'm still looking for a ride for it. Shipping it might be an option, but we'll have to see. I've already got plane tickets for me.

Would you be going and not competing then? VSC is a great event even just for spectating and socializing, but Randy with no airplane and not competing would be a shame on both accounts. Hope it works out somehow.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #214 on:** December 23, 2011, 07:33:37 AM »

Randy,

"They might talk each other to death." You can always wear earplugs! Sorry Shultzie!

I have still not flown the Sea Vixen, and only have a few flights on the Swift. Many other projects going for magazines and customers. It is going to be a fight with the winter weather and accompanying winds.
But, I am still planning n getting too VSC.

Hope to see y'all there.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #215 on:** December 23, 2011, 10:46:34 AM »

Oh, I'll be there. But it may just be as a spectator. We'll see. If I can get enough time off, I may drive myself, but probably not.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #216 on:** December 25, 2011, 08:31:55 PM »

Man, I hate doing cockpits. Oh well, it's just about ready for the canopy, I guess.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #217 on:** December 26, 2011, 08:12:59 AM »

Hey Randy, ship it to one of lthe locals and afterwards I will bring it back to Shawnee KS.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #218 on:** December 27, 2011, 06:04:22 PM »

Well, the gear is done and the canopy is on. Just need to put the fillet on the canopy then get the cowl fitted and the tank built and I can start finishing the thing. Pretty light, too. Estimated final weight at this point (if I can keep my darned finger off the paint trigger) is below 50oz. I don't think I'll make Donnie's 45oz but I could be around 48 or so. We'll see.

Mike Keville · « **Reply #219 on:** December 27, 2011, 06:36:16 PM »

Randy:
Keep strokin'. Then remember to take advantage of Keith and/or RJ's offer. Remember that great old Country song: "Thank God and Greyhound She's Gone".

Randy Powell · « **Reply #220 on:** December 28, 2011, 11:33:40 AM »

Mike,

Well, Mark Scarborough may be driving and I'm hoping someone from Portland may be making the trip. But if not and I can get the plane and a crate done in time, I'll probably ship it by the dog and ask one of the guys there to pick it up. We'll see, I guess. Have the get the plane done first.

Bill Little · « **Reply #221 on:** December 29, 2011, 09:55:58 AM »

Hi Brother Randy,

Kinda hijacking the thread, but how did the low rider come out? I missed it somehow.......

Thanks!
Bill

Randy Powell · « **Reply #222 on:** December 29, 2011, 12:06:50 PM »

Bill,

Well, it looks cool anyway. One flight on it and it seems OK but overweight. Will need a lot of trimming, I suspect. I plan to get a new engine for it in the spring (probably a RO-Jett 76).

Randy Powell · « **Reply #223 on:** January 02, 2012, 08:38:28 PM »

OK, time for more pics. At least it's light. Airframe as it sits there (sans cowl) is right on 21oz. That's about 2 ounces heavier than I wanted, but still in there. The cowl is roughed and just sitting there. Need to put hold downs on the thing and haven't decided how yet then it needs more shaping.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #224 on:** January 02, 2012, 08:45:23 PM »

Randy,
I am stoked, its looking good. It will be interesting to see them sitting side by side.
SHultzie will be beside himself when he has TWO of his models in the same place,, lol,,

pack a big hat pin in your flight box to pop his head LOL,,
Its making me want to build another one now,, of course then I look at all those ribs, and the sanding,, maybe a gypsy first,,

Its looking pretty sweet,, did you have fun coming up with a good way to do the tailwheel so it wont eat the lower strake over time?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #225 on:** January 02, 2012, 08:57:01 PM »

Mark,

Well, it's wrapped in copper tube (as it shows on Donnie's plans) and it's sort of reinforced in there with some plywood. Guess we'll see how it holds up.

Shultzie · « **Reply #226 on:** January 02, 2012, 09:33:23 PM »

RANDY...That beautiful new Avenger is really LOOKING GREAT...and truly a RANDY-DANDY WORK OF CLPA SKY ART!
YES! I AM TRULY SOOOOOO HECKITY-DAMNED PROUD OF BOTH OF YOU AND MARK...AND YES! BRING ALONG THAT "HAT PIN!" I am truly honored that both of you have chosen to build and fly that old Classic....

If it hadn't been for the mentoring and encouragement from THE GIALDINI SCHOOL OF STUNT KINGDOME COME, THY WILL WOULD HAVE NEVA''EVA' BEEN DONE waaaay back in the late 60's that Avenger would never have been created in the first place.
I am pretty certain that Bob is equally proud of both these beautiful new Hybrid'S that you and Mark so beautifully have created.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #227 on:** January 02, 2012, 11:35:39 PM »

Lookin' good Randy! It also looks like you'll shave a hint of weight with the cowl yet.

What color is the canopy???

Randy Powell · « **Reply #228 on:** January 03, 2012, 09:52:56 AM »

Calm down, Donnie. Wait till it's finished.

Wayne: Blue.

Bill Little · « **Reply #229 on:** January 03, 2012, 10:26:08 AM »

Great looking wood work Randy!

Bill

Randy Powell · « **Reply #230 on:** January 03, 2012, 10:56:40 AM »

Thanks, Mongo. I think I have the finish worked out. Nothing fancy. Well, maybe a bit of checkerboard on the rudder and .....

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #231 on:** January 03, 2012, 02:20:18 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 03, 2012, 10:56:40 AM

Thanks, Mongo. I think I have the finish worked out. Nothing fancy. Well, maybe a bit of checkerboard on the rudder and .....

and here we go,, muah ha ha,, need some frisket masks cut Randy?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #232 on:** January 03, 2012, 02:34:40 PM »

Mark,

I use Avery 8665. It's easier to work with than Frisket and seems to seal as well or better. And it's a lot cheaper.

I'm just kidding (mostly). I plan to use Don's original white paint job.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #233 on:** January 03, 2012, 02:38:31 PM »

Alan R turned me on to "MacTac" ( sounds like something Alan would like huh?) LOL,,
it works better than Gerber mask, Frisket or other materials.
I have machine cut it, and hand cut it, its thinner and leaves a much smaller edge.....

aside from that, I know you are dedicated to making this one super-uber-light,, I will be anxious to fly them back to back in the same conditions and get a comparison of how they do at significantly different weights. Looks like at least a 10 ounce difference between yours and mine,, ( ouch)

Randy Powell · « **Reply #234 on:** January 03, 2012, 02:47:43 PM »

Mark,

Yea, but you have more horsepower. Some anyway. If I can keep it under 50 ounces, I'll be thrilled.

White. Red and blue stripes. Might shade those a bit. And something on the rudder and strake. Not sure what yet. We'll see. I have the graphics worked out and they are a bit fancy, but they will just be decals.

Shultzie · « **Reply #235 on:** January 03, 2012, 07:08:28 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 03, 2012, 02:47:43 PM

Mark,

Yea, but you have more horsepower. Some anyway. If I can keep it under 50 ounces, I'll be thrilled.

By the way....My first nats 1967 Sting Ray with the smaller wing platform...weighted 52 ounces and flew well enough to glean me more than my share of hardware. (However...Bob G gave me the "fly with longer 68.5 foot lines..and run that Merco at a higher rpm. This way the longer lines...will give the illusion of a slower pattern that was somehow folks seem to think that is what judges were looking for in those early CLPA days of the 60's.

Check out the attached funny old photo of that First StingRay that I somehow slippppppppslid into a 2nd place finish behind Joe Dill and his Shark winged Crusader...at a contest at Renton's Boeing Field.

I had just returned from a Kansas City photo processing trade show...just in the nick of time.
Although I missed the first round flight...due to my late arrival...I picked my company car up at a near by storage SeaTac garage and raced over to Renton but GADS DID I GET A RIBBIN' FROM WEARING MY WHITE TENNIE' SHOES AND LONG BLACK SILK SOCKS...cuzzzzzz...I forgot to throw in my white socks in my Kansas City suit case.
(ALSO THAT WAS THE BEGINNINGS OF MY INFAMOUSLY QUOTE at more than just one contest!!!!

"MAY I BORROW A CUP OF FUEL?"

Randy Powell · « **Reply #236 on:** January 03, 2012, 09:04:07 PM »

I love Stinkrays.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #237 on:** January 03, 2012, 10:59:18 PM »

Here's a finish suggestion:

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #238 on:** January 03, 2012, 11:07:58 PM »

Howard,,
now are you trolling to get Shultzie wound up again or what!!

I just noticed something about this "version",, it does NOT have enough ribs,, it doesnt count unless you have all 546 ribs in the wing,,
that and the canopy is,, well, to big and just wrong,, totally wrong,,

* please note I make no reference to the paint "scheme"*

Shultzie · « **Reply #239 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:35:56 AM »

HOWARD! WOW!

GADS! Time flies...huh?
These two old Avenger photos you sent to my computer address at my old hidden away studio in the www.phantomworks.com don.l.shultz@boeing.com Boeing location. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back around 2000 somethin'?

Any chance of joggling my demented & heavily damaged brain cells....about the history of this Avenger photo that you took on one of your annual "World Cup Willy's with our USA Team members?

THAT PHOTO ALSO BRINGS UP SOME PRETTY SOBERING THOUGHTS ABOUT MY RETIREMENT IN 2004! OUCH!

Just days before I retired in May 30, 2004...the Boeing Computer Security wizards entered my locked studio (like theives in the night) even before they were scheduled============================
and quickly DELETED EVERYTHING. GONE FOREVER ,SHOT OFF INTO CYPERSPACE..so many years of special projects that I had been involved with...including the E mail and photos that Howard had sent me about this Avenger.

BUTT BOTTOM HINDSIGHT RULES!
I was warned about the possiblity of this taking place....from my long time friend..Roger Seaman, Director of Phantom Works and by the art director of special projects at an earlier goodbye luncheon, where both stressed that I should (soon as possible).... make up a folder of these favorite projects for my personal use and then quickly forward them to their office for review.

After which they would then make up a CD that I could safely remove and take home with me.
ALL SAD N' DUNG...HOWARD!
Any chance of remembering the story about this very strange and unusual Avenger and the history and fate of this CLPA modeler?

Shultzie · « **Reply #240 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:44:10 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on January 03, 2012, 11:07:58 PM

Howard,,
now are you trolling to get Shultzie wound up again or what!! * please note I make no reference to the paint "scheme"*

HOWARD!
SEE WHAT HAPPENED....MARK WAS RIGHT HUH?

Howard Rush · « **Reply #241 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:10:11 PM »

That plane belonged to Alfredo Morales of Spain. It was at the 2000 world champs in France, to which I went as B-17 crew chief.

Shultzie · « **Reply #242 on:** January 04, 2012, 09:52:27 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 03, 2012, 09:04:07 PM

I love Stinkrays.

Guess ya gotta get used to that "FISHY SMELL?
Took this photo as Seaside Ore. kite fest this last year

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #243 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:27:00 PM »

Hmm Randy, airbrush THAT onto your Avenger,, muah ah ha ha

wwwarbird · « **Reply #244 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:41:40 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on January 04, 2012, 11:27:00 PM

Hmm Randy, airbrush THAT onto your Avenger,, muah ah ha ha

Speeeeeeeaking of airbrush......!!!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #245 on:** January 05, 2012, 09:14:24 AM »

sigh, I suppose you are poking ME again Wayne,,

what are you working on now, it IS building season after all,,

now returning to Randys thread intent,,

well is it covered yet Randy?

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #246 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:37:27 AM »

Quote from: Shultzie on January 04, 2012, 09:52:27 PM

Guess ya gotta get used to that "FISHY SMELL?
Took this photo as Seaside Ore. kite fest this last year

Don,

If you found a thing like that during a kite festival, I think I know what happened next. Yuck.

Lauri

Randy Powell · « **Reply #247 on:** January 05, 2012, 12:16:56 PM »

No, Mark, it isn't covered yet. I need to finish up the cowl. Haven't done much since the pics above. No time. Hope to get back to it tonight and get the cowl shaped and hollowed. I still don't know how I'm going to attach it, but I'll think of something.

Shultzie · « **Reply #248 on:** January 05, 2012, 02:17:47 PM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on January 05, 2012, 10:37:27 AM

Don,

If you found a thing like that during a kite festival, I think I know what happened next. Yuck.

Lauri

We found this Ray....at the very south end of the Boardwalk...quite a distance from the staging areas but I needed to tweak in my HQ Shadow and then noticed this Ray that had washed up onto the beach at low tide just a short distance away.
(Yeh..I thought at the time...what an interesting duel line kite could be patterned after that "StinkRay" platform?

wwwarbird · « **Reply #249 on:** January 05, 2012, 09:10:30 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on January 05, 2012, 09:14:24 AM

sigh, I suppose you are poking ME again Wayne,,

what are you working on now, it IS building season after all,,

Mark,

Aside from watching and enjoying Randy's progress here, this is what I've been working on...

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=21117.0

It's been taking way too long for a little .15 size bugger, but I've only been at it on and off from the start. I do plan to be shooting color on it sometime next week though, it'll go really quick from there.