Author Topic: Magician and Banshee - Questions (Read 3550 times)

Mark Misegadis · « **on:** August 05, 2009, 10:15:52 AM »

Hi,
I bought 2 planes last night from a guy that collects engines. He purchased them only for the motors for his collection from a guy that apparently bought a house that had them hanging in the garage. Nice bonus with the house purchase.

I only paid $20 each for these built planes. They will require some repair from their travels including replacement of the cloth covering.

One appears to be a Magician although the wingspan is 48” and the other a Banshee. The overall thought is that these should be no more recent than late 60’s or early 70’s for these particular 2 planes.

I know that the Magician has been around awhile but was not sure about the Banshee. I will be taking some pictures and posting them and would like opinions on how I should go about the resto as well as a positive identification from folks that have the knowledge. History on these designs and old these planes could be would be a plus.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Mark

Dalton Hammett · « **Reply #1 on:** August 05, 2009, 11:55:18 AM »

The Magician was kitted by Midwest with a 48 1/2" wingspan for quite a while. I have several and they are a nice flying plane. It may have been kitted by others too.

Dalton H.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #2 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:30:31 PM »

Hi, thanks for the information so far!

Here are the photos of the Magician. Wingspan is 48 1/4". If anyone could tell me how old this kit could be that would be great. This one apparently had an Enya .29 on it. Hardware reads Midwest.

Mark

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #3 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:32:49 PM »

More Magician shots.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:36:59 PM »

On to the Banshee. Wingspan is 49". Was this always a SIG plane or was it kitted by others as well. Not sure what the mount is for on the bottom.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #5 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:38:18 PM »

More of the Banshee. This one apparently had an OS .35 on it. Mark

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2009, 08:46:51 PM »

Original Magician by Brodak. Jim Craft Magician off of Midwest plans.

Mike Gretz · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2009, 06:43:39 AM »

The BANSHEE was introduced by SIG in the spring of 1970.
SIG is the only company to produce the BANSHEE.

Mike Gretz
SIG Mfg Co

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2009, 07:24:41 AM »

Great, So it appears that I have a Midwest Magician from the 60's and a Sig Banshee from the 70's. (Probably early)

Both planes are going to need a resto to be flight worthy so at that point I will get to recover and paint them. What was a typical periode paint scheme and colors for the Magician? Or do I already have those example posted ?

Thanks, Mark

Gene O'Keefe · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2009, 07:40:52 AM »

No period paint scheme that I can find - left up to the builders imagination. I have a midwest kit I am currently flying with a LA .46 in it - set up to 4-2-4 ...great flying plane.

Geno

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2009, 10:53:49 AM »

The previous owner (Engine collector guy) is going to sell me the original Enya .29 that came off of this Magician. I will be able to put this bird back in its original as built and flown form.

The Banshee had an OS .35 that was on it so I am going to make an effort to source one of those to put this plane back the way it was.

As I am going to have to recover and repair some handling damage on these planes what else do I want to focus some attention on while I have them neked?

Right now I am thinking about the linkages and leadouts. Along with any advice all of you may have on that, what other areas I should consider while doing an overall structural inspection?

Mark

BTW: If I have this entire discussion in the wrong thread please just move me to where this should belong. I dont think the Banshee part of this is considered classic now that I have an understanding on the date of this plane. I am sooo Green that I make Kermit look pale.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #11 on:** August 06, 2009, 11:12:38 AM »

Magician Pics I found posted by a Steve T. Good looking planes.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2009, 11:59:17 AM »

The brackets on the Banshee are for a tuned pipe set up. Let us know how it goes. DOC Holliday

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #13 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:26:08 PM »

As for the Magician;
I'd remove all of the hardware that is removable on the outside, fix the flap, clean the paint up so there is no residue, shoot a few coats of Sig clear dope over it in a light mist, then lay a couple of wet coats on it and let it dry.
Then put it back together and tape the hinge lines to close those canyons between the wing and flaps and tail and elevator and you'd be back in business with a flying legal Classic with a minimum of hassle.
Chris...

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2009, 04:08:01 PM »

Hi Chris,

There are holes in the fabric so I am going to have to replace it. While I am at it I might as well put some reasonable colors on it and ditch the Forest Green/Brick Red Pseudo Flame job. I know its sexy and I am sure all of you are in love with this color scheme..LOL

having said that. Would all of you just scuff that green paint or strip it. I am concerned that if it reacts with whatever I choose to go over it I will have a nice wrinkle finish. I have never covered a plane other than with Tissue so I will have to gain a new skill with the fabric.

Mark

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2009, 09:16:13 PM »

If you are going to recover it, I would go with either silk, or silkspan. If it just has small tears in the fabric, you might just cover them with some selected decals. I am finishing up my fourth Midwest Magican, and all of mine have weighed in between 34 and 38 oz. ready to fly. I think it would probably fly OK up to about 42oz. with movable flaps, and all of mine have been done this way. Since I have built four of them, you can tell I really like them, and the last two have had McCoy 40 Red Heads on them. A very nice combo. It really does fly better than it looks like it should. One other thing, with the movable flaps, you can move the balance point back to just a little ahead of the spar.

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2009, 10:00:49 PM »

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the reply and advice. The fabric that is on the Magician has split along the edge of the ribs. Although there is a larger hole on the bottom of a wing.

I have attached a couple of close up shots for review. You will note that the Right Side Flap has seen better days.

Request: Could you post pics of all of your Magicians. Would love to see these as well as get some further details.

Mark

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #17 on:** August 07, 2009, 06:37:48 AM »

OK; I see it is probably going to need to be recovered plus some other minor stuff. I will try to post pictures of my first 3, as the 4th one is still in the paint room. The blue and yellow one was my first one, and it was powered with a Fox 35, at 34oz. The next 2 were painted almost alike #3 having black lettering. Both were powered with McCoy 40's.

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:23:04 AM »

Mark
I bought a Sig Banshee back in the 1980's from Jack Sheeks when he had his Hobby Shop. Jack marked up the plans for me the way he recommended it be built. I still have those plans.

Shorten the nose from 9 3/4 inches to the wing leading edge to 9 inches.

Enlarge the Stab and Elevator to 22 inch span and 3 inch cord on each at the center and 2 inch cord at the tips. Round the corners with a 1/2 inch radius.

To stiffen the nose I made new motor mounts that go all the way to the wing spars. I also recessed the tank into the body between the motor mounts stating 1/2 inch behind the motor cutout.

How did it fly? Jack won the Sig Contest with it.

I had built it to learn the stunt pattern with so I did not do a fancy finish. Under statement, wing and tail covered with cheep Orange film and the rest painted with some Flat Tan paint left over from a Military Scale Model.

I asked Jack to test fly it so that any problems I had in the maneuvers would be me, not the airplane. He took it off and did a couple of big turns and then held it at 5 foot for a few laps, I am thinking this must be a bad airplane. Then Jack flew it through a full patterrn and I could identify every maneuver as he flew them. Remember this was on it's maiden flight. When Jack landed he told me I could not fly it until I learned the full pattern.

At the Sig contest other fliers teased Jack about his "Ugly" airplane. He told them before the weekend was over they would be calling it Mister Ugly so he wrote "Mr. Ugly" on the wing with a marker. Who says a profile model can not turn like a built up body model. Mr. Ugly did.

Some of our club members still fly Banshee(ks) using these mods.

Clancy

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:41:10 AM »

Clancy - Great Info - I'll be saving this off into a file for sure!!! BTW: I just weighed he Banshee as is complete minus OS .35 that was on it.

Jim - The Magician is 22 Ounces minus the Enya .29 that was on it.

I am going to put these two survivors back into as flown condition with the exception of the paint schemes and perhaps what I see with the linkages when I get inside the covering. So that means the .29 will be terribly underpowered to your McCoys. The Engine collector that I bought the planes from has agreed to sell me the original Enya back but I am going to have to source an OS.

While I am thinking about it.... How are you guys painting these planes. What method?

Mark

Paul Smith · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:56:40 AM »

On a kit Magician, the stab is the weak point. Not nearly enough meat for the load it carries. It needs to be upgraded to thicker wood with a spruce trailing edge. The penalty for failure is stiffer than the stock tailplane.

Also, the daisy chain set of the flippers being driven off a nylon flap horn with wheel collars is not exactly a long-term winner.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #21 on:** August 07, 2009, 08:13:37 AM »

Mark; All of mine were finished with Sig dope all of which was brushed on. The frist two were covered with silkspan, and the last two were done with silk, fuselage, tail, wing and all. I use cheap silk from Dharma Trading Co. The Enya 29, if I remember right, is a very powerful engine, and would probably work just fine. I just do not know how they run for stunt, and as I remember, are fairly heavy. I sure would not hesitate to give it a try though. At 22oz. without the engine you should be very good if you can keep it around that weight. Both planes should be really fun projects. I have had two Banshee's also, and they are a very fine flying machine, modified or not. I still have one that is also a Mr. ugly. It is about 15 years old, and was a quicky monocote job, with a painted fuse and tail. It has been around the circle a few times, and as Lew Woolard says, " its been rode hard and put away wet ".

john e. holliday · « **Reply #22 on:** August 07, 2009, 08:45:19 AM »

And Jim still blows us away with the Magicians. DOC Holliday

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #23 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:23:18 PM »

As requested here is the only picture I know of of Mr. Ugly. It appeared in Control Line World January 2008.

When Jack won at SIG in 1989 he received a Black SIG Fox 35 as a prize. It was intended to go on the shelf as a trophy. SIG had disassembled 10 Fox 35 stunt engines, stamped SIG on the bypass and black anodized the case, head and back plate of the engines.

No effort was made to keep the parts together from each engine a they were "Trophy engines". Jack wanted to fly his SIG Fox 35 so I agreed to break it in for him. WOW was it tight. I first got it to start and run about 20 seconds before over heating and locking up. Let it cool 15 minutes lube it with Marvel Mystery oil and try again. After a couple of hours like this it would run rich for a full minute. Getting better but still very tight. More running the next day and got it to run for 2 minutes at a time. Still tight. Third day I got it to run a full tank so I thought it was time to try leaning it out some for short bursts. Getting better. After a full gallon of fuel it was still tight but would pull an airplane so it got mounted on Mr. Ugly. Jack put a few flights on it and took it back to the SIG contest the next year. The people there could not believe Jack would fly the Black SIG Fox but that is what he did. It was in Mr. Ugly when it went in.

Clancy

Mark Misegadis · « **Reply #24 on:** August 09, 2009, 10:21:52 PM »

Hi, Where can I find a set of plans for the Midwest Magician?

Mark

James C. Johnson · « **Reply #25 on:** August 10, 2009, 09:26:26 AM »

The first time I saw the Banshee was at the Mission Bay Prop Twisters meet, summer of 1970.. it was a cool looking plane compared to anything most of us kids had flown.. I still have a picture of it, finished in clear...

The Magician always impressed me as a fine profile.. so I ordered plans from Tom Dixon... I will someday built one.. but you know what... there are too many designs and not enough lifespan.. once a guy becomes "addicted"... damn.. like a kid in a candy store... my list has to be at least 50.... the Magician is one of them..

BTW... Bill Darkow used a Enya 29 on his foam wing Flitesteak .. the engine runs were like a Swiss Watch, he was using a yellow plastic TF 9x6.. you can prop this engine down if it runs too hard..or use 5% nitro... a 9x6 prop or 10x5... and I suspect an APC 10x4.5 would be a good choice.. it will run on any kind of prop... likes a 22-25% oil... no nitro to 15% nitro.. and will do a light 4-2-4 break. Or just run it flat out constant.. the Enya's are versatile as it is gets..

Jim

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #26 on:** August 10, 2009, 07:00:20 PM »

I got my Midwest plans for the Magician from Stuka Stunt.

L0U CRANE · « **Reply #27 on:** September 03, 2009, 12:43:50 PM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on August 06, 2009, 06:18:39 AM

When it was first kitted, it was done in the 60's by "Technical Models" which then sold out to Midwest. Technical Models modified the original version by adding a different fuselage and longer wing span. The story on it is in the latest issue of Control Line World. I built my first Magician back in 1967. After Midwest stopped kitting it, it was put out by a man in California, "something Free Flight Service, then by Golden State Models, then by Walter Umland, who sold the kit to Brodaks, who presently kits it. Just too good a plane to not build and fly.

Ty,

I flew a "Micro Midwest" 48" span Magician at a Mirror Meet in 1958 or 1959. Either the above dates or my memories are a bit off. Good history on the rest of the deal. The idea of an "original" version of any "era-event" model is fine, but for the spirit of whatever era, it makes more sense to me to consider the version most of us first learned about/built/flew as at least equally "authentic."