Author Topic: Power for Shark "45" (Read 3992 times)

Bill Little · « **on:** July 25, 2007, 12:41:03 AM »

What are some suggetions for powering a Shark 45? I am thinking ST G51. (??)
I have a good Veco 45 and A good Veco 50, but I know there are lighter and stronger engines in the same category.

And what is a good weight for a competitive Shark 45?

Paul Smith · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2007, 05:46:31 AM »

I'm currently holding a kit and a like-new K&B 45. I saw many of the originals in action. I my opinion, going heavier than the K&B 45 would be a BIG mistake.

A modern 40 would have more power than the original engine and the same weight, plus .015 lines.

Mike Gretz · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2007, 07:37:45 AM »

If you ever get the chance to see Dan McEntee's Shark with ST-51 fly, you wouldn't go any further. It's awesome power for that airplane. So good that Dan is presently on his second Shark with the same engine.
Get in touch with Dan.
dpmcenthusiast@aol.com

Mike Gretz

proparc · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2007, 09:10:48 AM »

Shark 45 needs to 60 to come alive. Jim Armour, Dave Sabon all roll with a sixty or 65. I flew one with a ST 60 - about right.

Leester · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2007, 10:14:29 AM »

Bill: My Pat Johnston plans in my RSM Shark 45 shows a ST 60 with a weight range from 50-65 oz.

EddyR · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2007, 10:22:36 AM »

I have seen Lou's fly many times and he has a ST/46 in the Shark+10% version. I would use the ST/51 myself.
Ed

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2007, 03:06:42 PM »

I agree with Mike Gratz's comments about the G51 in the Shark 45. I am currently flying Dan's old shark and it is so good as to not be believed.
Chris...

Leester · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2007, 07:31:16 PM »

The RSM Shark 45 is 686 sq.in.

James Mills · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2007, 09:16:03 PM »

I flew the RSM version for several (about 5 or so) years with a ST. 51 (first one reworked by Randy, and the second engine from Byron Barker). Mine came out a little heavy at 64 ounces. It's hanging on the wall, may get a re-finish some day, but I might put a 61 in it.

James

Bill Little · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2007, 01:44:45 AM »

Thanks, guys!

I flew my SV 11 with a G-51, and at 64 oz. it flew excellently! So I know of the attributes of a good G-51.

When time comes, i will probably go with the G-51.

Mike Scholtes · « **Reply #10 on:** August 03, 2007, 11:53:01 PM »

I have an RSM Shark 45 kit (not started yet) and posted this same question about two months ago. I learned there were three Sharks with Tom Lay tuned ST51s at VSC this year, reportedly all flying very well. I have a Frank Bowman modded ST51 that will go into my Shark this fall (hopefully) so it can be Shark #4 at VSC 2008. The engine pulls my 67 ounce 670 square inch Score just fine.

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2007, 09:27:19 PM »

For what it's worth, Bill, I spoke with Lew a few months ago regarding my (still in box) RSM Shark, and he suggested that a Saito .56 would be an excellent choice. I certainly won't lack for power!

Edit: Just remembered - - Lew also suggested shortening the nose by ½" or even a full inch, to help compensate for the weight of the Saito. Since you only need a 4½ or 5 oz. tank with the Saito, there's still plenty of room for tank.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2007, 10:07:00 PM »

Pat Johnston's (late) Shark 45 had an SSW Magnum XL .53 for power, and weighed 54 oz. Calm air and wake turbulence got it, I heard, at a NW CL Regionals about 3 or 4 years ago. It pretty much exploded on impact. Since the .53 is much less bulky than the ST G.51, it fits better (and pulls the same props as a ST .60). I think it's the ideal power for a Shark 45, because it will allow that long slender nose that is part of "the look", and lots of thrust.

Bruce Hunt, our District 11 Dictator, flew his Shark with a T&L ST .60 in both Classic and PA for years, but finally gave up on it this year, in favor of his new Southwick "Lark" with ST .46. Nils Norling also has been flying a Shark with T&L ST .60 for many years. Both Bruce's and Nils' Sharks are WAY heavy, but fly quite well, but Pat's was da bomb...

Steve

Ron King · « **Reply #13 on:** September 06, 2007, 05:13:34 PM »

Is this a trick question?

I know you're gonna use an ST51 because you like those engines. If I ever build my kit, I will use a PA 51 because it's a much better engine than my old Super Tigre.

Later,

Ron

Bill Little · « **Reply #14 on:** September 07, 2007, 12:30:05 PM »

Quote from: Ron King on September 06, 2007, 05:13:34 PM

Is this a trick question?

I know you're gonna use an ST51 because you like those engines. If I ever build my kit, I will use a PA 51 because it's a much better engine than my old Super Tigre.

Later,

Ron

Ah, Grasshoppa!

You are not fully aware of my GREAT AFFINITY for the PA 51, myself!

I am thinking more along the lines of the standard ST 46 size plane using a ST G51 (I know they are GREAT engines!) but for the larger, more substantial planes, I am seriously considereing the PA 51! My last talks about a USA-1 with Billy brought up the "wild idea" of using a PA 51 in that plane! Let's see.......... a 54-55 oz. USA-1 and a PA 51 with one of Randy's "can" mufflers............ should be good for about 25-30 mph winds! LOL!!

How are things going for you? I hope "time" is better now.
Bill <><

John Miller · « **Reply #15 on:** September 07, 2007, 01:35:47 PM »

Bill, I like the way you're thinking.

One of the best Shark engine combos I've ever seen, is Dave Sabon's fliying out of the San Diego area.

He's running a PA .60 or .65, on a muffler. sweeeeeeet.

Ron King · « **Reply #16 on:** September 07, 2007, 02:16:44 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on September 07, 2007, 12:30:05 PM

My last talks about a USA-1 with Billy brought up the "wild idea" of using a PA 51 in that plane! Let's see.......... a 54-55 oz. USA-1 and a PA 51 with one of Randy's "can" mufflers............ should be good for about 25-30 mph winds! LOL!!

How are things going for you? I hope "time" is better now.

Now you're thinking great ideas!

I think a Shark 45, USA-1, or Colossus/Quasar with a PA51 (or 61 if you build a tad heavy) would be an ideal double duty combo for someone who wants to be competitive in both Classic and regular CLPA with the same plane. These planes are big enough to score well and can fly in more varied conditions, IMHO.

Time? I wish! They say that time heals all wounds - or is it wounds all heels?

I actually mowed my circle and put up a couple of flights this week. First time in 2007, but what's the rush? There's also a rumor making the rounds that I will be in Huntersville in October. Maybe there will be a Big Bear sighting as well?

Take care,

Ron

Randy Powell · « **Reply #17 on:** September 07, 2007, 04:10:36 PM »

I flew a USA-1 with a Magnum 53 for a bit in both PA and Classic. Did fine with it, too.

My buddy Bob is building a Shark and plans to put a PA .65 side exhaust in it. Yeow! Well, it won't want for power.

RandySmith · « **Reply #18 on:** September 07, 2007, 07:09:38 PM »

Quote from: John Miller on September 07, 2007, 01:35:47 PM

Bill, I like the way you're thinking.

One of the best Shark engine combos I've ever seen, is Dave Sabon's fliying out of the San Diego area.

He's running a PA .60 or .65, on a muffler. sweeeeeeet.

Hi John you are correct,
Dave has a PA 65 SE in his Shark, it flies very well, 13 inch 3 blade prop. I saw it last at VSC 2 years ago

Regards
Randy

Greg L Bahrman · « **Reply #19 on:** September 07, 2007, 10:54:58 PM »

I have seen David Sabons plane fly many times with the PA65 SE and it performs really well. Runs a sold 4 stroke with breaking at the tops of the manuvers. Sweet to watch and listen to.

proparc · « **Reply #20 on:** September 10, 2007, 12:08:27 PM »

Power for the Shark. Some sort of 60 minumum. Dave Sabons PA 65 Shark is grossly overpowered which is just about right!!! ST 51 if you want to fly. PA 65 if you want to WIN.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #21 on:** September 10, 2007, 04:02:19 PM »

Randy's superb PA76 can spoil you for mere mortal motors, but I think there are limits! At some point you just throw excess power over the side - and carry a half-foot of spindly landing gear legs to clear the prop!

Remember the Shark was the National Champion flying with a Greenhead 45. I can turn the same props Lewis McFarland did using an LA40. Therefore ANYTHING bigger than that is a SEROIUS power upgrade!

My vote is something in the 45-53 displacement range, 2 stroke or 4, what ever you feel comfortable running.

Bill Little · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2007, 11:35:19 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on September 10, 2007, 04:02:19 PM

Randy's superb PA76 can spoil you for mere mortal motors, but I think there are limits! At some point you just throw excess power over the side - and carry a half-foot of spindly landing gear legs to clear the prop!

Remember the Shark was the National Champion flying with a Greenhead 45. I can turn the same props Lewis McFarland did using an LA40. Therefore ANYTHING bigger than that is a SEROIUS power upgrade!

My vote is something in the 45-53 displacement range, 2 stroke or 4, what ever you feel comfortable running.

HI Dennis,

Thanks for adding your thoughts.

I have shelved the Shark, for the present time, so I will have plenty of time to decide on a powerplant.

My needs are for a single plane to fly in Advanced and Classic at local meets. For right now it will be my recently finished Vulcan w/AT 36. I *believe* my next one will be back to the USA-1 w/PA 51 and a "can" muffler I got from Randy. My last one flew so well with a T&L ST G51 and it will only be better with the PA! My last one came in at 54 oz., and I do not believe I will need, or could really use, more than the PA 51 if I can build to the same weight.

Bill <><

Howard Rush · « **Reply #23 on:** November 02, 2007, 11:12:47 PM »

I have been personally whupped by Dave Sabon and his Shark.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #24 on:** November 03, 2007, 08:26:50 AM »

If I ever get around to building one it will have a Fox 59.

Bill Little · « **Reply #25 on:** November 03, 2007, 10:34:55 AM »

Hi Guys,

Well, an update on all projects *Classic*. The Vulcan has proven to be outstanding. A diabetic episode precluded my flying of it on Sunday at Huntersville, but that is starting to really come under control. I had just started on insulin the week of Hunterville.

As to the *next big* Classic plane, I am really torn.......... I have never had a Shark, and I have always liked the design. I do have an excellent laser cut short kit of the Shark 35, though. I am wanting to go larger so as to be able to double duty local contests like I said. ST G-51, Big Jim ST 60, and PA 51-61 are all candidates along with a slew of ST 46s.

I will have two PAMPA planes ready for next Spring, so I am sorta hunting for *THAT* Classic plane right now. The Vulcan is great, but I do want to build a larger Classic plane. The USA-1 was probably my all time favorite plane, so it *might* just come down to one of those again, who knows!

Bill <><

Phil Bare · « **Reply #26 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:08:18 AM »

Hey Big Bear, I gotta really nice K&B Green Head .45 that I might let you barrow......:-0

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #27 on:** November 08, 2007, 04:50:58 PM »

Quote from: Ralph Wenzel on August 04, 2007, 09:27:19 PM

For what it's worth, Bill, I spoke with Lew a few months ago regarding my (still in box) RSM Shark, and he suggested that a Saito .56 would be an excellent choice. I certainly won't lack for power!

Edit: Just remembered - - Lew also suggested shortening the nose by ½" or even a full inch, to help compensate for the weight of the Saito. Since you only need a 4½ or 5 oz. tank with the Saito, there's still plenty of room for tank.

Gets my vote

Ron King · « **Reply #28 on:** November 12, 2007, 02:11:41 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on November 03, 2007, 10:34:55 AM

Well, an update on all projects *Classic*. The Vulcan has proven to be outstanding. A diabetic episode precluded my flying of it on Sunday at Huntersville, but that is starting to really come under control. I had just started on insulin the week of Hunterville.

As to the *next big* Classic plane, I am really torn.......... I have never had a Shark, and I have always liked the design. I do have an excellent laser cut short kit of the Shark 35, though. I am wanting to go larger so as to be able to double duty local contests like I said. ST G-51, Big Jim ST 60, and PA 51-61 are all candidates along with a slew of ST 46s.

I will have two PAMPA planes ready for next Spring, so I am sorta hunting for *THAT* Classic plane right now. The Vulcan is great, but I do want to build a larger Classic plane. The USA-1 was probably my all time favorite plane, so it *might* just come down to one of those again, who knows!

Bill,

First of all, I hope you are doing better. I wondered why I didn't see your name high on the Advanced placings. I think we can agree that 2007 was not our year and get ready for 2008.

Now is this another trick question? You and I both know you will build the USA-1. To think anything else is simply those experimental drugs talking.

Power? You and I also know I will vote for the PA engine in anything that remotely resembles a big stunt ship. The 51 would be my first choice, but I do have an extra 61 on the shelf. I might have to give Wicker a call and see if he still has that USA-1 kit.

Ron

Bill Little · « **Reply #29 on:** November 12, 2007, 06:39:19 PM »

Hi Ron,

If I were in Vegas, I would put my money on a USA-1 w/PA 51 and the new small muffler from Randy. I have everything to do that. But who knows??

Thanks for the kind words on my health. Between my health and your job, things just didn't go right.

It has been a fairly rough past year or so, around here, starting with the loss of my knee ligaments, diabetic episodes, etc., etc.. Not the *best* of times! LOL!! But, the insulin seems to be working now, at least everything is getting close to normal levels, and I am slowly losing some weight! My body really feels strange! LOL!!

2008, it will be much better! I look forward to getting up y'alls way for a meet some time. And, I am starting to plan a NATS trip. Who knows what the new year will bring??