So when thinking about what I might fly at the US NATS in classic stunt, several idea's were floating around in my head.

USA 1 , Ares, Super Ares, or anything designed by Billy pre 1970. There were many others, as some of you may have read - I had actually finalized my choice as the ARES, completed it and have posted photo's of it on here in USA Paint. Somewhere along the road I decided that an unknown design - well to me anyway was not really where I wanted to be from a contest perspective.

I had fairly good success with my 1951 - .61 Nobler - but she is well and truely done - with close to 3000 flights in a model not designed for the punishment I gave her - and with a nice winning record over a 5 yr stretch it was time for her to retired.

I had every intention of building another one of those George Aldrich Noblers and competing with that - after all it ticked all the boxes. So off I went building. Wing, Stab, Fuse Tailplane all built, ready to be put together when I had an Epiphany. Why not build a Classic legal Gieseke Nobler? The fact that Doug moon had won the 2010 Nats Classic title was not lost on me either. Looking at the other results, it has been well represented for along time and the design itself offers many features that make it a better competition model over its '51 counterpart. Its tried and tested.

The only problem was - I did'nt have plans for it - and the only plans I could locate prior were a set of Top Flight plans, which after much research found out was not a reliable source for building an accurate representation to the design. - After some very quick emails back and forth I got a set of plans out from Steve moon of UHP quick and I mean FAST - ( 4 days from USA to AUST ) I looked over the plans and they have been inked perfectly - I recommend a set to anyone looking to build one.

I put the 51 version aside practically ready to assemble ( Dont worry Its since been "modified" for another mission more info later in another thread )

The model went together very fast - at the time I had almost finished my other model so I set that aside and worked flat out getting it to assembly stage It was a fairly intense build, a real passion to get it together.

Plans arrived : 25 Oct.

I emailed an update on 6th Nov saying :
Update : 6 Nov:

Just wanted to give you an update on my Gieskie Nobler.

Wing completed, Fuse completed ,  all except top and bottom shell. Tail plane assembly completed. This weekend I'll build the flaps and finish mouting up the controls. I estimate I will have it completely assembled - Wing into the fuse on the tailplane within 3 - 4 days.

Its now 25 Feb and Ive just put the primer on and sanded it down.  4 months from Plans to Primer. Now I know what some are thinking 3 months is quick 4 isnt that fast..... ( and I agree ) - Dont forget I've been sharing my time between models Im trying to get the 2011 US Nats model finished also the 2010 model only went into clear in 6 Jan so I was really pushing everything around. ( Did I mention Ares also?? ) ! So Ive got a crowded workshop !!!!!!


Very excited to build the Gieseke nobler & see how it handles my regular Classic Setup - Stalker .61. - I only hope that Mr Gieseke himself will be at the US Nats - The king of " Gorilla balls " engine setups might just raise an eyebrow or tweak a grin  when he see's whats under the hood. I'd have no greater honor than letting him fly it just to see what his reaction is to a 1969 Gieseke nobler with a .61 ..... Long stroke Edition.

Projected weight : 49oz

More photo's to come once paint is applied. It may not be for another month due to having to paint 2 models in a row..

Its funny I get that reaction a few times, lets leave out that a similar combination has won 3 Nats classic titles and just look at what others have done in CLPA.

Mid 90's the engine of choice was .40 on a pipe.

Today a design like the ThunderGazer runs Pipe .75.

From a Maths perspective :

.40 x 1.90 = .76
.35 x 1.90 = .66

Im only using a .61 -which is only x 1.745 so its actually less than what is considered today to be "normal" for 640 sq style model.
Even so there is a massive push in car circles to run big block engines in 1960's style cars.
The horse power on the 1969 camaro varied from 130 hp to 375 ( or an average of 252 ) hp from the factory depending on the engine that was ordered
Using the 1.9 ration thats today equivilant of thats an average of 478 which is high but for a muscle car relatively mild. in todays terms..  Ive seen some mid 60's Muscle cars pushing out 1200HP for street driven..


In any case - its an amazing combination rock steady 4 stroke growl, those whom have flown it have all agreed its beautiful - and sounds incredible in a solid 4 stroke. - Hopefully you will be at the Nats and can watch it for the 1 day of Classic.

49 oz projected flying weight.  

Bob's weighed 43 , you can gettem at that with an OS 30 max & muffler .

Im giving up 6 oz but gaining enough power to drive a 70oz model - Fair trade off

I think the concept of how much weight one can carry on a wing is mis-understood - Its more about power than weight.

On a side note : I'd check the weight of an OS.35 with Muffler - Its not 6 oz Lighter.... Youd' be surprised as to what it really DOES weigh - also take into account all that weight is distributed fairly close to the front section of the nose. Where' as a RE - you can see by the photo - The head itself sits further back due to being a longer crankshaft - and the Pipe sits just infront of the wing - so your CG distibutuion isnt as far forward. - Relative to the weight points.
 

If I had the Maths to do so - id love to see the relative weight distribution at several map points, relative to a OS.35. However Ive got several noblers of different guises - Veco's - oS 35 MAX - Stalkers so I know how the weight feels and what/where i need to go to the CG points to get them to fly.. You would be shocked to know what sort of weight is needed in the .61 version to get it to balance at the correct point..

hi PJ,

You have proven that the concept works from your previous '51 Nobler.

You have probably told me before, but things have been hectic.  So....... how much does the .61 weigh with the muffler shown? 

And what is your prediction for the finished weight of the model?

Thanks!
Bill

Thanks, PJ.

Should be another good one!

Well I ordered the paint today and it arrived about 4pm.

Ordered and delivered by afternoon the same day?  WOW!! 

Big Bear

- I order the paint from a local supplier so thats why I get it so Fast - I just go down to collect it once its mixed.

I sanded the Out b wing down a little more to try and reduce the weight being a larger panel.

Randy ; I know it needs more - I'm just getting the block ready for 3500 grit as we speak.


More photo's to come - Just finishing up some details around the Cowl. gaps ect..

 PJ,

 What are you using for primer?

As to the Top Flite kit, it definitely isn't the "Classic (pre 1970) version".  Since Bob made a change here and a change there to each of his planes, it's hard to really tell if the Top Flite kit was one of his actual planes.  But it is probably a later one with mods made for production (like always happens it seems!).  I have seen the Top Flite kit allowed to fly in Classic, though.  Not really enough to cause a major problem.

I have the UHP plans and Paul Tupker's plans from "back in the day".  The size and shape of the rudder/fin really evolved over the years........  I'm not really sure when Mr. Gieseke flew "his" Nobler the last times in competition before he went to the "Bear" in the early '90s.  Aaron has wanted a Gieseke Nobler since he started flying in competition over 15 years ago.  I talked to "The Bear" several times about which one/what to do when we build one, but we still haven't built one yet! LOL!!  Will go wit the UHP plans when we do, though.

Big Bear

   But, a .61 in a Gieske Nobler is like putting a 427 V-8 in a Fairlaine. 

  John, I hope you are talking a Ford 427 here. 

Still on 60's Lap speed is relivant to RPM and engine set-up

Yes it was the early versions of funny car racing.  A Ford Fairlane with a 427 V-8.  The driver lost 4 out of 5 races against a The Plymouth of the time with a big V-8.  I kept telling myself the guy does not know how to drive a Ford.   

HI Doc,

Several years ago I was driving into Milton FLA and passed a garage that was painted up like a checkered flag (every other cinder block was black, alternating! LOL!!) and went back later that day to check it out.  All kinds of Fords around.  A fellow named Willie D. Smith was the owner.  He took me to his house for lunch and showed me his Butler building full over over 30 cars, all in show condition, basically.  One was Gas Rhonda's actual 1964 National SS Champion Thunderbolt.  Willie also had one example of every Factory lightweight Ford Drag Race subject.  He offered me a '63 1/2 lightweight Galaxie if I promised to restore it (it had been outside and was pretty rusted up) but my wife threatened my life (I already had a 427 '63 1/2 Galaxie at the time).  He actually ran the Thunderbolt in 1/8th mile competitions from time to time.

Over the years I built 4 "external cross bolted mains" 427 Ford engines.  A center oiler "low riser" in "stock specs" for my Galaxie (it was a numbers matching factory 427 "Q" code from Norfolk) one center oiler "high riser" '64 engine, and two side oilers that had the "H/M blocks" with screw in freeze plugs.  One was a '66 vintage "medium riser" (destroked to a 396 and 2X4 carbs, NASCAR specs) and one tunnel port (NASCAR spec, too.  Block and heads had been used in one of Lorenzen's Fairlanes in '67).  I really really wish I had just one of those engines today.........  I do have a set of the C-6 "LeMans rods" left...... 

According to Ford literature, there were 53 '64 Thunderbolts built by them.  And I believe 6 had the automatics.  (yeah I have been a FoMoCo nut ever since Fireball Robert's left Pontiac for Ford in 1963!)  All had the FoMoCo "Disclaimer Tag" riveted to the inside of the glove box door.

"Mongo"

Yesterday I spent all day and FINALLY got the 1st coat of paint on the model.

Today colour sanded it with 2500 - Its hard to ever be completely happy with a model prior to paint, when you do spend alot of time getting everything right you always find more and more tiny little things that could be improved with some extra time on the sanding/filling stage.

Well my deadline for paint was March 1 and the clock ran out come hail or shine - the base coat went on. I can say Im pleased with the results. - Photo's to follow - I want to get a decent way into paint.

Looking forward to the pictures.  I've always heard it said that we never completely finish a model, just stop working on it.

Bill

After 2 days got the 2nd layer of colour taped up and looking at it in tape only - Im VERY pleased with her so far.

 

No need to "RUSH" (that only causes problems!), just don't waste time.
(I am SO guilty of the latter, too, too many times! LOL!!)

Big Bear

Dont worry - it will be in clear within the next 3 weeks. I just finished the final coat of colour today.

Matt,

I'm told anticipation is the best part.

Yea, read my bit about finishing my plane. I was doing some test panels and did something bone headed. Ain't model planes fun?

Finished the lettering - Finished a few little pieces... finished the ink work

Just got off the phone from my mate - says I can get booth time tonight at 8pm - 12pm WHO HOO! PPG Here I come.
 
- Besides Im now working on trying to get 2 other models painted..
Pics to follow once its cleared.

WOW! I can only dream about my planes looking like this, beautiful job.---LOUIE   

That's simply stunning, PJ.  Uber nice!

Big Bear

PJ, that plane is awesome.    Now 74, isn't that the year that Bob won both the Worlds and the NATS?   I remember talking to him at the NATS and him saying his plane was a combination of several of his planes.   Tails surfaces from one plane, the wing from another and a new fuselage.   

Had the first test flight on Sunday.


WOW. 

Congratulations, PJ, nicely done!