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Classic Designs => Classic Planes => Topic started by: Randy Powell on April 04, 2016, 10:45:46 AM
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So, after my rather embarrassing episode at VSC, I found myself in need of a new classic plane. So, after perusing my plan collection, settled on a Jerry Worth design. I'm redesigning the structure in the nose to accommodate an electric setup. Hope it works out. I think I picked the most complicated design possible, but I'm simplifying it somewhat. It will look the same externally, but I have to find a way to simplify it to keep the weight down. Sucker has a ton of ribs and I want to figure out how to lighten the structure without compromising the rigidity. What fun.
I finished the trick new crutch yesterday. Man, it is so much easier to sort this stuff out as you are building it as opposed to retrofitting a previously built plane. I'll post a pic later.
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Go to I-Beam wing construction. A lot of wood in his ribs.
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I'll second what Doc said. The beamer will be stronger than stock too.
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He loves the punishment I believe. LL~ LL~
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What design is it?
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Sorry, thought I said. Jerry Worth Mirage III. And even with 74 ribs, Jerry's was 48oz. The ribs are 1/16" and I'm talking Pat Johnston into laser cutting them. I've had enough of self-flagellation.
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Cool, another good one to watch from the Powellworks. y1
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I was going to email Pat and tell him to refuse to cut all 78 ribs for Randy,, ( just to tease him of course) but then I chickened out,, Dire things can happen when you needle someone who launches you at a contest,, esepcially if your tailwheel strut is soft,, and your prop is a one off,, S?P
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I haven't been able to get Pat to respond. I may have sent the ribs to the wrong address (I missed the zip code). So, I will send again tomorrow.
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Randy, I think Pat is another road trip to Missouri, or somewhere like that. He checks in occasionally.
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Yea, I've talked to him. Busy guy. We are talking about how to do the ribs. In the mean time, the motor crutch is mostly done and the fuse sides are cut. I'm still working out exactly how I'm going to do some things, but it's coming along. Pics eventually.
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Hi Randy, Look forward to seeing the Mirage.
Consider Polyspan covering and I-beam construction. It is a fine combination for strength and weight.
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Jim,
I'm going to stick as much as I can with Jerry's original structure. And I still have enough SGM for 2 more planes. After that, I will be using Polyspan.
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Randy...Einhaus was selling "Heavy" silkspan at tonight's meeting, and had a lot left. I don't know if that's "SGM" or what the codes are. We always just bought "Light", "Medium" or "Heavy". I liked "Heavy" for combat models...gave me a bag to haul home the small broken parts in...and it was an unopened bag, too. y1 Steve
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Steve,
I can't be there but I'd buy as much as he is willing to sell.
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OK, a picture. My camera is going south. Maybe I can talk my spouse into letting me use her GoPro.
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Continuing work on spar. It's a composite and it may have to be done again. We'll see.
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Steve, I'd take any of the "heavy" silkspan you have left after Randy gets his.
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Continuing work on the toad. Ribs are a couple of weeks away. The stab and elevator are built along with the rudder and top block. Probably another 4-5 hours of work then I will be stalled until the ribs get here. Cool.
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Waiting on laser cut ribs I suppose? Are we getting lazy? LL~ LL~ LL~
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Waiting on laser cut ribs I suppose? Are we getting lazy? LL~ LL~ LL~
with 80 some ribs, I cant say as I blame him for being lazy LOL
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Not lazy, Doc. Just want them to be accurate and they have a lot of cuts in them.
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I'm lazy. Yep. But I've been working since last Monday, away from home.
So, I'm not THAT lazy....Just don't have the same time as a retired person.
I love to read everyone's build threads. I've authored a few (sarcasm) on the blog at RCG.
Looking forward to your next installment.
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So, extended conversation with Pat Johnston tonight and I think we have the ribe worked out. Cool. Fuse, stab, elevators and rudder pretty much done. I get the ribs and I can start assembling. Yay!
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So, the ribs showed up (thanks, Pat) and look very good. Different than I was expecting so I need to go back and change a couple of things. Such is life. But I'm pretty happy. Assembly should start soon.
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Randy,
Any pictures?
Gord V
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Gordan,
Not much to show yet. A bunch of pieces partially constructed. But as soon as I finish figuring out the rudder and stab mount (I had an idea on this), I will start assembling and some pics will show up. A few days.
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OK, so it's been more than a few days. I've been fixing PA planes. I will see if I can get my wife's GoPro to work for taking some pictures. It's coming along.
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OK, so it's been more than a few days. I've been fixing PA planes. I will see if I can get my wife's GoPro to work for taking some pictures. It's coming along.
LOL youhave a cell phone,k they take small enough pictures
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Not a good idea to talk about a "new" design from April through June without a single picture. (unless it's a ringmaster, or something everyone knows)
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Not a good idea to talk about a "new" design from April through June without a single picture. (unless it's a ringmaster, or something everyone knows)
Randy is a tease,
he flew poorly last Sunday to tease me into thinking I had a shot, then he put up a real flight to smash me LOL
so yeah, he likes to tease
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Yea, yea. I'll post some classic construction pics by the weekend. The PA plane I was fixing was the Slider. It's ready to go again (I think, anyway). The other is an old plane I'm thinking of converting to electric. Sort of depends.
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OK, so it's been more than a few days. I've been fixing PA planes. I will see if I can get my wife's GoPro to work for taking some pictures. It's coming along.
I had been wondering about this one lately, but then again it is flying season. ;D
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OK, here it is. Partly done wing (and going slow) and pieces parts.
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what's a go-pro?
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Really, Ken?
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Looks like a really good start! y1
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I'm sort of freelancing as I go along. Finished the bottom of one will and sort of had to make it up as I went along. Should be pretty good overall. Fun trying to make things fit as I try to convert to electric. Interesting anyway. More pictures to follow.
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Randy,
Be sure to stagger you lead out 3 inches and you will never take off with the lines back wards. soon as you pick your handle up you will know the lines are wrong.
Food for thought. That`s what I do.
Gordy
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I'm sort of freelancing as I go along. Finished the bottom of one will and sort of had to make it up as I went along. Should be pretty good overall. Fun trying to make things fit as I try to convert to electric. Interesting anyway. More pictures to follow.
I think most glow designs that are being built as or converted to electric, can usually stand to have the bulkhead ahead of the wing LE hollowed out and the LE removed to allow the battery to be part way into the wing, to get the CG where you want it.
I wish I would have done this to my ARF Oriental, but nobody would chime in with a "yay" or "nay" when I posted the question.
So long as it doesn't weaken the wing substantially, you should be good doing that. And building the plane I would think it would be reasonably easy to get that done, especially if the wing is "I Beam" construction.
There should be plenty of room for your E-power gear; there are just too many options of where to mount stuff (IMO), and that becomes the biggest hurdle for me when planning the install.
Best of lust with the rest of the build!
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Well, it's coming around. Man, this thing has a lot of ribs. I'm at the almost ready to assemble phase. I'll see if I can dig up a working camera somewhere and post some pics this week.
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OK, here's a picture. I'm still trying to figure out how to use my spousal units GoPro for pictures. This is the best I can do so far.
All the ribs are in and there were a lot.
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Dang, that is a lot of ribs!
Looks great!
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Yea, if you count each strip rib as a rib, there are about 144. Joy.
Glad that part is done.
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One of the joys of I-Beam wings. That wingl looks great.
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Doc,
Yea, can't wait to block it all down. Glad I have a really long T-Bar.
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OK, the controls are in and the stab is on along with the top block (most of it anyway). Next up is bottom block and nose then rudder and strakes. Fun stuff.
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Coming along nicely Randy, looks great! If only it was gonna have a "real" motor. VD~ HB~> ;D
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Coming along nicely Randy, looks great! If only it was gonna have a "real" motor. VD~ HB~> ;D
yeah cause then it would shake and vibrate every one of those 144 riblets loose,, soaks the nose with oil, yep thats the ticket,, planned obsolesence so he has a reason to build more LOL
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Let me tell you, Worth must have used 2lb balsa. This plane is not going to be a light weight. Should be OK, but it ain't going to be dainty.
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Working on the bottom block. Plane is flipped over and still in the jig. Hope to have it hanging in the air in the next couple of days. It's coming along.
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Go, Randy, go.
Post more pictures if you can.
R,
Chris
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Ty,
When I built the Avenger, Don Shultz told me that his original weighed 44oz. I worked my butt off to make that plane light. Ended up coming in at 47oz. Told Donnie and he laughed his butt off. Said his actually weighed about 55oz but he told everyone it was 44. Figures.
Here's another pic. The wing LEs and tips are rough shaped. About ready to take it off the jig and do the nose. The rudder is just sitting there. Not attached.
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Ty,
When I built the Avenger, Don Shultz told me that his original weighed 44oz. I worked my butt off to make that plane light. Ended up coming in at 47oz. Told Donnie and he laughed his butt off. Said his actually weighed about 55oz but he told everyone it was 44. Figures.
Yeah I got the same story from him, lol, what a goof, sure will miss him
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Beautiful airframe, Randy!
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Lookin' great! y1
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Randy, that thing is so awesome, I cannot wait to see it on the flightline, LOVE the ribs
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I didn't love them much. Since they are strip ribs, there are 152. And 1/16" at that. Ugh. But it's done. It's interesting anyway.
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Didn't get as much done today. Had a long honey do list. Such is life.
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yeah cause then it would shake and vibrate every one of those 144 riblets loose,, soaks the nose with oil, yep thats the ticket,, planned obsolesence so he has a reason to build more LOL
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Better than a battery fire, for sure!
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Better than a battery fire, for sure!
I certainly cannot argue that point!!!
especially once that dope got warmed up, oh boy what a fire that would be
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Haven't had a battery fire yet, though I thought Mark might have one the way his battery puffed up at Roseburg. That was fun. Cycled out those old Zippys yet?
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I don't know why folks would buy HK batteries when the prices of TP are now so low when they have their holiday sales. It no longer makes sense to me. The TP batteries seem to be even better than the Hyperions, they ship fast and free over I think $50, and have a 2 year non-crash warranty.
I think they will replace crash damaged batteries for 50% of the non-sale purchase price too.
And their prices on the ProLites have come down.
I likely will not bother buying anything else.
Just my opinion.
AND they are LIGHTER!
About the only downside is that they come without a plug. I can solder, and I hate cutting off an existing plug anyhow.
Vr,
Chris
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I don't know why folks would buy HK batteries when the prices of TP are now so low when they have their holiday sales. It no longer makes sense to me. The TP batteries seem to be even better than the Hyperions, they ship fast and free over I think $50, and have a 2 year non-crash warranty.
I think they will replace crash damaged batteries for 50% of the non-sale purchase price too.
And their prices on the ProLites have come down.
I likely will not bother buying anything else.
Just my opinion.
AND they are LIGHTER!
About the only downside is that they come without a plug. I can solder, and I hate cutting off an existing plug anyhow.
Vr,
Chris
because, they are much less than half the price. THey are functional and for the packs I use, I can buy 5 packs for the price of ONE TP pack
but each to their own. I plan to migrate to TP this fall but first I invested my battery budget in a more robust charging system
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I like the Wild Scorpion batteries.
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I like these... ;D
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because, they are much less than half the price. THey are functional and for the packs I use, I can buy 5 packs for the price of ONE TP pack
but each to thenoir own. I plan to migrate to TP this fall but first I invested my battery budget in a more robust charging system
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Their pricing came down. A lot.
I'm doubting that during a sale ( about 6 times a year) that you can buy TWO of the HK batteries with shipping, for the cost of one TP battery. Check the TP website and you'll see what I mean.
The 4s batteries for my plane are less than $30, if memory serves me, when on sale. That's pretty reasonable for a quality pack out of Las Vegas. One that you can redeem a warranty on easily.
I'm a penny pincher, but I'm sold.
Check the link, a 4s2200 is $33. Their minimum sale is 25% off, that's about $24.... unless you can get the zippy 4s for $12, your statement doesn't hold water, sir.
http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/Products/2200-mAh/TP2200-4SPX25
http://www.hobbyking.com/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=21347
R,
Chris
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Chris,
I dont disagree with your perspective and more so where and how you spend your money, however when I sent my money in, what I stated was true. I bought 5 ^6S 2700 batteries for 100$ ( Hobby King has sales too my friend) the TP at that time were over 125$
in the months since I bought mine prices may have changed,
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Back on topic: I'm taking off tomorrow for a 10 day vacation so no work until then. More pics when I get more done.
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Safe travels to you and yours. Sorry for the debate on your build thread.
Looking forward to seeing more progress later.
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Back to grinding the nose. Joy.
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Make some dust Randy! Just don't breathe it....
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I'm fitting the electrics bay right now. As always, it's tight in there. Once that's done and I finish up the nose, I'll post some pictures.
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Question glues used. I see a bottle of CA in some the photos is that what is being used for most of the build?
I built a number of RC planes a few years ago with CA and seemed to work well and be very strong, just not very sandable.
How would a glue like TiteBond do?
Sorry for the slight departure I like your plane a lot and at the same time if money can be saved and fumes avoided I'm all for it.
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I use a lot of adhesives. Mostly thin and medium CA. Some epoxy and even a bit of Titebond. Kinda depends on the application. Nothing wrong with Titebond other than the additional weight and drying time.
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Still futzing with fiddly bits in the nose. I think I have it worked out.
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Still futzing with fiddly bits in the nose. I think I have it worked out.
Are the fiddly bits futzed yet?
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Hey, Wayne.
Been spending all my time working on the house (since the weather has been cooperating). Hopefull, I can get back to it in the next few days. Life interferes.
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10-4, just checking in. ;D
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OK, just for Wayne, some pics of actual progress.
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Whew, looks like the old Powell parts count I remember from a while back. Cool! ;D
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The little wart on the nose, originally for the uniflow vent (and on the plans) will now house the start button for the timer. Fun plane, but way over complicated. And just about framed up. The canopy is just sitting on there. Some detail sanding on the tail, cockpit and canopy, attach the "hood" over the canopy as on the plans, shape the flaps and elevators and mount them then the horrible job of doing the wheelpants and finally figuring out how to mount the nose wheel and I might be about to start finishing this toad.
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Yeah Randy, you're almost done! :##
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Yeah Randy, you're almost done! :##
almost done starting?
having done a servicable finish on an I beam type wing, I certainly appreciate the task ahead, sanding my avenger wing was 40 hours every time I put a coat on! and The Avenger only has half the ribs to sand between,, this thing will be awesome if Randy can have the time to do it justice like he is capable of,, this will be sweet
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Not much work on it. Continuing to pressure wash and paint. It's taking up my every waking hour not spent at work. Joy.
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Randy,
Since it has a nose gear, the remaining landing gear, is it mounted in the wing or on the fuselage? In the photos I didn't see any way to mount it on the back of the I-Beam.
Just curious.
By the way nice looking.
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It's a trike with a wing mounted main gear and nose wheel. The wing part wasn't too tough. The original just bolted the gear wire to the spar. I worked out a removable setup. Just gear blocks and a plywood frame that mounted to the spar with a small balsa fairing around it. Still trying to figure out how to build a nose wheel mount that doesn't interfere with battery access. But I'll figure it out. It's supposed to rain most of the weekend here so I'm hoping for some shop time. We'll see.
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Over complication was the 60's way, man! 40 appearance points.
Chris...
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Well, pressure washing is mostly done for this season. Supposed to rain all day tomorrow so I can spend all day in the shop. Rock on.
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Let me call your wife, I would bet she has some odd jobs to do. LL~ LL~ LL~
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Doc, the honey-do list is long, but I'm avoiding it at the moment. The rear of the fuse is finally sanded and fared. Looks pretty good though I suspect not kicking that point on the fuse is going to be a chore. The nose gear is done. Now I'm working out a way over-complicated cowl arrangement (because of the nose wheel, it has to be in two parts). Once that's done and I finish building the arming system, I'll try to assemble all the various parts of the nose, see what doesn't fit or work (though they've all be in there individually) the shape the control surfaces (they are built) and build the wheelpants. That should all be done in the next couple of weeks (with time taken out to head to a contest in Salem, Oregon). Then, hopefully if all goes well, I can start finishing the beast.
I finally managed to secure a very bad picture of the original Mirage III. Far as I can tell, there is only one. The paint appears to be mostly the same as the Mirage II but with red on top instead of blue and a few different flairs. That's probably what I will go with. Should be fun.
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OK, the hatches on the bottom are about done. A bit of blocking and I will post a picture. Then we'll have to see if all the electrical stuff fits in the front ... at the same time. It's all been fitted individually. The it's onward and upward.
Picks tomorrow, maybe.
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Glad to hear you're back on it Randy. Starting to think about building season here in Minnesota, next up is another twin. VD~
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Well, finished the hatches except final fitting. Tried to put all the electrics in and of course it doesn't fit. So it's back to the drawing board to figure it out. Too much wire. Have to think on it a bit. And I also realized that I buried the timer under everything. It will make it a pain when first setting it up. Joy. May leave it floating in the bottom of the cowl until I have it sorted.
There is just not that much room in there. But I'll figure it out eventually.
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I bet there's room in there for a 5 or 6 ounce tank. D>K
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4oz. At most. But I figured out a fix. It will be weird but it will work.
Later: Glad I didn't use my original idea. I figured out an elegant fix. That's why when I have a problem with something, I, well, mull. An answer usually presents itself. Just have to change the way you look at a problem. Cool.
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That's why when I have a problem with something, I, well, mull. An answer usually presents itself. Just have to change the way you look at a problem. Cool.
Agreed. I find that during building season, mulling accounts for a lot of sleep loss.
Carry on Randy... ;D
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Still struggling getting the electrics to fit. But i'm close. Joy.
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Ok, it all fits now (and that took some inventiveness). And I got the hatches fitted pretty well. Now it's on to the control surfaces and wheel pants then final sanding and it's on to the finish. Joy.
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good on ya Randy,,
I am still fitting stuff into the new build room,, and finding homes, and trying to Keep Jackson from getting into stuff,, lol soon I should be able to get back to making balsa shavings
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Man, I've never had so much trouble fitting stuff into a space. But I finally got it. And it's complicated. Hope I don't have to get to the timer too much. It will be a pain.
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Here's a quick pic of the nose with hatches fitted. There is a front and back hatch. One to access the motor the other for the battery. They lock together. And the nose gear. That was a pain.
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Is there a hot air exit?
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Is there a hot air exit?
I so want to comment on this, SO SO badly,, but it would be undignified to say something like " yeah its right under his nose"
right,,
that would be innapropriate and non politically correct?
but it would be funny,
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but , I have to be serious, the new bird is looking awesome Randy,, if you need some mental therapy when you start sanding the wing, feel free to call HB~> D>K
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Wayne.
No, there is not exit yet. You are not going crazy. I have several I'm putting in. One in the bottom, 2 in the top. Just haven't go there yet. I'm designing a vent in the top that will also allow me to get to the timer without taking the entire thing apart. We'll see on that.
Do the vents, build the wheel pants and gear. finish the control surfaces and it's on to finish. Finally.
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Is there a hot air exit?
Ha, you know that moment when you realize you just said something out loud? Right after I hit the button on that one I was thinking Ty might show up, or Beavis... ;D
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Looks like I'm too late, but the Pathfinder LE is said to have the nose gear mounted into the cowling. Gordan and John say it works fine....and they fly off grass. Post more pictures, Randy! y1 Steve
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I've been working on fiddly bits. Finally figured out how to place the timer so I can actually get to it for programming. And worked out the vents for the nose and have them most built. Will finish up tomorrow and take some pics. Just for Steve.
This thing has been a major pain in the back side. But I think I'm finally getting on top of it and can move on to the wheel pants and finishing the control surfaces. Hopefully tomorrow for some of this.
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OK, Walter, here are the vents. Started on the cockpit and wheel pants. Fiddly bits.
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Its looking reall good Randy. Cant wait to see how it finishs out.
lots of corners to sand. LOTS of corners.. and being how diligent you are I see you gave yourslef a bunch more corners to sand with all those portholes ,,
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Took a bit to figure out positioning so that air could get in there. And yes, sanding it will be fun. Need to round all those ribs so that I don't sand through when sanding it down for paint. Joy.
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Looks nice and clean. I like that. Can't wait to see it painted.
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Clint, baring something unforeseen, It will be at VSC. I'm going for the best I-Beam.
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Clint, baring something unforeseen, It will be at VSC. I'm going for the best I-Beam.
Right on. I'll let you have it this year. I'll go for it next year. LL~
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;D
If I can get it done.
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Clint, baring something unforeseen, It will be at VSC.
You'd better be sanding by next week then. :##
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Wayne,
Just have to finish the landing gear and the control surfaces and it's finish time.
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Wayne,
Just have to finish the landing gear and the control surfaces and it's finish time.
You'll probably be finished before me and the Sabre. Seems when I have time to paint, the weather is bad. Of course when I'm at work, it's perfect painting weather. Gads!
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Speaking of that, I'm having some second thoughts on the paint scheme. I was looking through some old pics (of planes I built a long time ago) and saw one that I thought, hmmm, that would look really cool on the Mirage. We'll see.
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I hate doing cockpits. This one is going to be, uh, minimalist. But Raphael will be the pilot. ;D
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Just realized they changed the dates for VSC. As such, looks like I won't be going after all. I have reservations at a time share we belong to and there is not space for the earlier week (you have to get reservations like 9 Months before). So, cancelled the reservations I had and was put on a waiting list for the new week. If something comes open, then I'll go, if not the Oh Well.
Sigh.....
Shame they decided to change the week.
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well then Randy, time to start planning for the NATS
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Truth is, without the VSC goad, I may just put this in the rack (after I finish the airframe) and start on my new PA plane. Kinda itching to get it started. But we'll see.
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There's gotta be an alternative. Isn't there usually a VSC host hotel? Other hotel/motels?
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Wayne, It's, ah, complicated. Since they had to change the dates, I don't really have an option.
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Again from another post, why the change in dates?
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Still struggling getting the electrics to fit. But i'm close. Joy.
We don't fly electric's in Ontario Canada. Hydro rates are so high we can't afford to recharge the batteries! It's only a matter of time before the carbon credits put our internal combustion systems out to pasture too! HB~> Sure glad we've got legalized pot grow ops #^
Good luck with the new bird Randy. I love watching your stuff come together.
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John,
Well, it seems that they had trouble booking the banquet hall. But I was told that the dates were set way back (like July). I just must have missed it. The original dates (I thought) were the second full week in March but it is the 1st full week. I suspect that this was just a misunderstanding. So, I won't be there. That's OK
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What VSC's I attended they always announced the dates for the next year. Some how always coincided with the school spring break.
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Doc,
I suspect, as I said, it was just a misunderstanding. I'll look to attending next year perhaps. Such is life.
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Doc,
I suspect, as I said, it was just a misunderstanding. I'll look to attending next year perhaps. Such is life.
Well, this just sucks. On top of not having Randy there this year it means that if I build an I beam ship next year, I'll have to compete against him for the award. That's no Bueno. I got no chance against his models.
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Come on Clint I was there when you got the beauty award. . I think that was your first VSC.
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Come on Clint I was there when you got the beauty award. . I think that was your first VSC.
It was my second VSC and the competition was light. LL~
Having to compare one of mine vs. one of Randy's isn't much of a contest.
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It was my second VSC and the competition was light. LL~
Having to compare one of mine vs. one of Randy's isn't much of a contest.
I say go for it anyway Clint. Do you have a certain 'beamer in mind?
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I say go for it anyway Clint. Do you have a certain 'beamer in mind?
Yes, I do. But not ready to disclose such info on an open forum just yet. n1
But we're thread jacking here. Back to Randy's plane!
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But we're thread jacking here. Back to Randy's plane!
Yep, back to our regularly scheduled programming... ;D
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Hey Clint go for the triple: I-Beam award, Sheeks High score award and the Best appearing Sheeks award. I think all of Jacks designs were I-Beam. H^^
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Clint is way, way too modest. His Tempest was awesome.
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Clint is way, way too modest. His Tempest was awesome.
I agree
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Clint is way, way too modest. His Tempest was awesome.
I only ever saw a couple photos but I thought it looked really good too. y1
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OK, the canopy is on. Put the fillet on but it's pretty sloppy. Will take some grinding but should be fine in the end.
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how about emailing me a few hi res pictures for my column Randy,,
PLEASE
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I'll see what I can do.
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So, the filler is ground down and here's a shot of pieces parts underway. It's moving along anyway.
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sexy Randy,,
really nice so far,,
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Very Cool!!!!
Tom
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Lookin' great Randy. y1
'Spose we could see a step-by-step on the wheel pant assembly as you progress? I've often wondered about the cleanest/best way to go about doing them, including wheel retention methods etc.
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Wayne,
I'm doing this the simplest way possible. My PA Plane has a slick system where the wheel pants are removable and the removal system is also the retention system. Works great but is pretty work intensive to build. This plane is done the old fashion way. Wheels are soldered on with washers and the wheelpants will be retained using some soldered brackets and glue. Permanent. Probably foolish if I need to change out a wheel, but the easiest method.
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Wayne,
I'm doing this the simplest way possible. My PA Plane has a slick system where the wheel pants are removable and the removal system is also the retention system. Works great but is pretty work intensive to build. This plane is done the old fashion way. Wheels are soldered on with washers and the wheelpants will be retained using some soldered brackets and glue. Permanent. Probably foolish if I need to change out a wheel, but the easiest method.
10-4. I'd stiil be interested in seeing a how-to on the removable system, someday.
With using the foamie wheels on this one, you might want to just make two sets now then. S?P :##
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10-4. I'd stiil be interested in seeing a how-to on the removable system, someday.
With using the foamie wheels on this one you might want to just make two sets now then. S?P :##
removable landing gear, my specialty,,I have removed a few sets of gear,,
oh wait, you mean other than scraping them off on the ground removable,, hmm
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Wayne, I suspect that they will hold up OK. But if they get too worn down, I'll just build another set.
Yes, Mark, you are very good a scrapage.
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Well, my first shot at a hood didn't work, try again tomorrow.
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So, here's the thing with the hood. Not sure I like it much, but that's what's on the plans. Gonna be a pain to paint it. But should be OK when done.
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Hmm. I wasn't sure what you were getting at when you mentioned the "hood" earlier. If anyone can make it look good it'll be you Randy, but I'm not envious of that task. D>K
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All I can say Randy is, it might be a good thing you are not planning on VSC this year, there is a LOT of contours to sand on that beast not to mention the wing,,
It will certainly be a unique addition to the fleet,,
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I think Jerry Worth was a closet masochist.
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What better way to pass time than to put on your favorite music on the stereo and start sanding plus a full pot of black coffee. D>K
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Doc, I either put on music, listen to an audio book or put a ball game on in the background - just to keep me company.
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I think Jerry Worth was a closet masochist.
Art Adamisin said Jerry had about 5 tools! He designed some of my favorite models, Apertyx, Electra X-35, Boeing P-26 Scale model and the Top Flite P-51D Mustang Scale kit.
Chris...
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Where's Randy? ???
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Where's Randy? ???
You dont want to know,, lets just say He isnt dealing with snow at the moment,, though he will when he gets home..
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You dont want to know,, lets just say He isnt dealing with snow at the moment,, though he will when he gets home..
Ahh yes, I do think I recall him mentioning plans for a bit of globetrotting. Oh to have that life of a Rock Star...
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So, I'm back from 2 weeks in the sun and sand. And it's freezing, of course. More so because I got used to 82F.
So, it will be back to the Worth-mobile.
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OK, so I think I need a new scale. I weighed the plane below as you can see it. 2 or 3 gear and the mount for the bench on the front. I know it weighs about 3oz. The scale says the plane weighs 11oz. Either I'm the lightest builder in history or the scale is off. I'm betting on the the scale being off.
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Its looking pretty good, and boy I am impressed with that weight,,
maybe let me know what it is after you change the battery in the scale... although one scale I had did that and I found a shaving curl of balsa under the table,,
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That would do it! Pesky balsa shavings!
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Can I borrow that scale? ;D
Lookin' good Randy.
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New scale and with all three gear, well, it's not 7oz. Shame, that.
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New scale and with all three gear, well, it's not 7oz. Shame, that.
so what, 8.5 maybe?
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Move the decimal point to the right. LL~ LL~ LL~ I know Randy builds beautiful planes and this one will another super light plane.
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No, not 8.5oz. I wish. I suspect when it's done and ready to finish it will come in around 25oz. Probably 5 or 6oz more than I wanted. Have to go really light on the paint. The original was 60+ so I should be OK.
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No, not 8.5oz. I wish. I suspect when it's done and ready to finish it will come in around 25oz. Probably 5 or 6oz more than I wanted. Have to go really light on the paint. The original was 60+ so I should be OK.
25oz covered and ready to finish? Really?
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Bare wood.
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Oh, I think I'd be pretty happy with that. You've already got 5 ounces on my P-38 and I haven't even glued all the big parts into an airplane yet.
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Well, we'll just have to see. Tough to tell. I suspect it will be a bit piggy, but not horrible.
I really want to get this along so I can start on my next world beater.
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Great looking build, Randy! I am jealous!! ;D
I know it will come out beautifully
Bill
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Couple more pics. Still need the other elevator and the flaps but it's coming along.
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Randy, this thing is so cool, I cannot wait to see it in the flesh,, keep on keepin on,,
are you staying out of the snow drifts, and keeping warm?
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No snow drifts. Just floods.
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Lookin' really cool Randy. y1
Won't be long now 'til finishing time, how many ribs are there to sand between? :##
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Wayne: 144 Yea, I'm not really looking forward to that. Oh well.
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Wayne: 144 Yea, I'm not really looking forward to that. Oh well.
Yeah, just blame Mark. ;D
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I already blame Mark for a lot of stuff. This would be a reach. But OK, it's Mark's fault.
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????? sigh, the duties of a stunt bitch are obviously far reaching and not clearly defined,,
when can I get my own stunt bitch,,
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Craig's List. Just look under the Stunt Bitch Header.
Here's the thing done except for the flap fillets and final sanding. And cutting down the nose wheel height just a bit. I have a trick for that.
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Only a month 'til VSC! ;D
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And I won't be there. Shame, that.
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So, here is the final. It done with the building part and apart for a little prep sanding, it ready to finish. Managed to lower the nosewheel a bit so it sits level now and straightened the main gear so it's parallel with the centerline (that was a bit of a pain). And the fillets for the flaps are done.
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Is this one going to have one of your super simple paint schemes? LL~ LL~ Really is looking gorgeous. For some reason I've always liked the looks of planes showing lots of ribs. By the way I won't make it to Tuscon again unless some miracle happens. H^^
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Hey Doc. I'm copying the original paint scheme. Basically white with red and blue trim.
And I won't be at VSC either. I had planned to, but it didn't work out. Next year, for sure.
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Are we covering yet? D>K
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Yes, Wayne, I'm covering. A bit more complicated than I had planned.
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Randy, I konw the last few weeks you have been getting lots of handle time on the chain saw, please make sure you translate your inputs from chain saw worthy to delicate brush worthy prior to attempting to affix the covering on your creation,, silkspan is hard to come by and shredding it with the chain saw will not extend the life of your limited supply
as always, just trying to help H^^
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I am a bit low on SGM. Maybe 4 sheets. I have GM and 00 coming out my ears.
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Yes, Wayne, I'm covering. A bit more complicated than I had planned.
Somehow that doesn't surprise me.
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It's mostly sanding ribs prior to cover. Takes a lot of time.
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Before Wayne asks, it's mostly covered. Doing the pieces parts.
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Hu-whaaat?!
Yeah, I've been checking here, guilty as charged. ;D
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I havent been on the site in awhile but the last time I checked in we were on page one. Very nice but dang, I was expecting some paint pics or something seeing as VSC is in full swing! Beautiful as usual. H^^
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I was bad this year. No VSC for me. But I will post a picture. Just have the control surfaces left to cover. Got distracted with some machining for the next plane and sharpening the chainsaws.
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Don't feel bad. No VSC for me either. Just too many other things happening.
But your plane is looking great!
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Should say, this is just covered. No clear coats. I used thinner to attach it. Less trapped water. Worked well.
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Should say, this is just covered. No clear coats. I used thinner to attach it. Less trapped water. Worked well.
Thanks for the reminder on that routine Randy, I always forget to try it that way and I'm almost ready to do the P-38. How much clear did you have on the bare wood? I usually start covering after two good coats of 50/50 and a light sanding.
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3 coats of unthinned clear prior to covering.
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3 coats of unthinned clear prior to covering.
Holy cow.
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Nope. It's a regular cow.
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OK, I think I've go the warp in the outboard wing fixed. Back to finishing the, ah, finish.
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Uh oh.
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Funny how something can be dead straight prior to finish then suddenly develop and issues after covering. But I got it. Looked last night and it's still straight to I think I'm good. Sheesh!
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From here on out, cross your fingers with every coat.
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I vaguely remember a wing I painted that when I looked at it later had a warp. Left it over night and next day it was a straight as it was before the coat of dope.
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I vaguely remember a wing I painted that when I looked at it later had a warp. Left it over night and next day it was a straight as it was before the coat of dope.
I've had flaps do that, curl up for a bit and then be dead straight again once they fully cure. I've also fine tuned them if necessary afterward with a Monokote iron. A wing can be a much bigger problem though, hope yours stays put Randy.
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I got it fixed, but due to other demands, I haven't been in the shop for a week. Next weekend is the Jim Walker Memorial contest in Portland, OR and I hope to attend that. So not sure when I'll get back to it. I cut a slot in the bottom of the trailing edge of the offending wing and used a piece of carbon tow to basically pull it straight. Then filled with some catalyzed filler. Looked at it yesterday and it's is still straight a week after the fix, so I think I'm OK. We'll see.
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This project is on long term hold. I managed to damage myself and won't be able to work on in for another month or so. Oh well.
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This project is on long term hold. I managed to damage myself and won't be able to work on in for another month or so. Oh well.
That's a bummer Randy, hope the recovery is going ok at least.
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I guess I'm lucky Randy. Told my rehab person about working on my planes while still using the brace, was told I should only be doing the required exercises. I responded, "I guess that means I can't push the powered lawn mower. The look I got and the reminded it has only been 2 1/2 weeks since surgery. Still have to wear the brace another couple of weeks.
Now you take care of your self so we can meet up at the VSC again. H^^
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This project is on long term hold. I managed to damage myself and won't be able to work on in for another month or so. Oh well.
How's things Randy?
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How's things Randy?
He was at the contest in Chehalis last weekend, on crutches. Sez he's doing well. He can give a more complete report if he sees this.
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I'm doing OK. Couple of weeks and I can ditch the crutches (according to my physical therapist). Spent my first day in the shop in 8 weeks last Saturday. Still have a warp in the outboard wing. I had kinda hoped it would straighten itself out, but it didn't. So I straightened it. Now it's on to sanding.
I'm working on fixing the controls on my last stunt plane so I can finally get it back out and flying. And I have been machining a bracket to mount a new dehumidifier/filter for my compressor. Fun stuff.
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Hey kid you had better start taking care of your self. Don't be surprised if you stumble around on that first flight when you do get back out. H^^
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Unlikely, Doc as my spouse will not likely let me fly until I'm somewhere in excess of 100%.
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Ready to get back to it yet Randy?
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Nice timing. I'm back at it. Finally started sanding again.
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Based on all the contests I attended from 1964 through 1975, I never once saw any one that could tell me what their plane weighed and NONE on them ever actually weighed them. Many never even cared. So, any given weight from that era, with a few exceptions, are wild ass guesses, nothing more. Just fly it. They did. D>K LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Since the pull test was based solely on engine disp. not weight, no one cared. Now they have to.
Since the early '70's I've never weighted a CL or RC plane just go by look & feel, and I've built so many can't even begin to pull a number up...
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Now Randy lay off the home duty chores until this is flying. VD~ At our age healing takes longer when we mess up. H^^
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Still sanding?
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And sanding and sanding and sanding. The a little filler, then sanding and sanding and sanding....etc.
Hey, at least it's getting lighter.
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I'm a little ways behind where your at, just finally got the wing covered on the '38 with a couple fresh coats of clear now. A few other parts are silkspanned now too, and I'm already tired of sanding. Looking forward to some new pics out of the Powellworks to use as inspiration.
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Soon, man. I'm about 60% of the way through. I should be ready for base coat by the weekend. As my grandfather used to say, that's a lot of damn work, right there.
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Zen. :)
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Dhammam saranam gacchami ...
om mani padme hum ...
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Dhammam saranam gacchami ...
om mani padme hum ...
Eh?
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Eh?
Zen Master speak, I think.
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Chanting while sanding
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Chanting while sanding
Please direct us to the YouTube video. LL~
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Well, it's sanded, more or less. A bit of touch up and I have one spot on the inboard bottom of the wing where I've sanded through like 4 times. Sheesh! but it's all good at the moment. A bit of fillercoat in like 3 spots and sanding and it will be ready for base color. Probably this weekend if I don't have to go to Portland. Joy.
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Hey Wayne, I finally got the base color on. But I'm afraid this pointed up about 20 places that will need attention including a dozen sand-throughs on the wing. Sigh... Well, it's said the best finishers are those than can recover the best from problems. What fun. I'll post some pics when I finally get the base color done. Sheesh!
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Hey Wayne, I finally got the base color on. But I'm afraid this pointed up about 20 places that will need attention including a dozen sand-throughs on the wing. Sigh... Well, it's said the best finishers are those than can recover the best from problems. What fun. I'll post some pics when I finally get the base color done. Sheesh!
Right there with ya Randy, I'm in back-and-forth mode here too, a long way from color yet.
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Well, the main color is on there, but I will be patching and airbrushing for a bit. Not fun but that's the way it is with an I-Beam.
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So, what do you do with all the sand throughs on the wing?
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I generally get the edges back together and hit them with CA. Then sand and put a small patch on. Sand, fill and dress that then shoot more base color on with an airbrush. Takes forever and is tedious to boot.
I dislike this because you usually can't see the buggers until after you've shot on base color. Ugh..
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I generally get the edges back together and hit them with CA. Then sand and put a small patch on. Sand, fill and dress that then shoot more base color on with an airbrush. Takes forever and is tedious to boot.
Dang, I was sort of hoping for an Ancient Chinese Secret that I maybe hadn't ever heard of. That routine is about what I was thinking, except for the CA part which I think would leave you with hard spots to sand. I suppose if you're quick enough smoothing over the CA with a finger smear you can get away with it. Either way, NO FUN.
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Ok, here's the pictures in base color. It's 2/3 Randolph White and 1/3 Insignia White. Also. there a before and after picture of one of the what felt like 5000 sand throughs. Before fixing the paint, the thing looked like an East LA low rider with primer gray patches all over it.
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Don’t you use Polyspan? Fuzzies are easier to deal with than sandthroughs.
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Howard,
This is old school. Sig SGM silkspan and Randolph's dope. Since I'm out of SGM, I suspect I will go to Polyspan. I've used it before but never liked it much. Guess I'll have to learn to like it.
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It's 2/3 Randolph White and 1/3 Insignia White.
I always have to wonder Randy, do you do these things to yourself just so it's impossible to match down the road if necessary? :##
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I keep some for touch up. I did this because I was trying to match the picture I have of the original. Insignia White is a very bright blue/white. Randolph's white is a sort of tan tint eggshell white. The original Mirage III (of which I have exactly one color picture of) is sort of in between.
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Man, I am about to throw a tantrum. I have these two spots that are being a pain. I'm on my third time sanding and repainting these two tiny spots and I swear there are demons involved. Sheesh!
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Man, I am about to throw a tantrum. I have these two spots that are being a pain. I'm on my third time sanding and repainting these two tiny spots and I swear there are demons involved. Sheesh!
Still the sand throughs or an adhesion issue or?
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Ditto on Waynes question. You've piqued my interest.
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Wayne (and company ;D ),
No, some kind of contamination. I kept getting fish eye, then when I overcame that, got puckering. Really weird. But, as I am the inventive sort and never afraid of a challenge. I just stripped the whole area, put down new fillet material, sanded, cleaned the crap out of it and shot paint on it yesterday. Whatever monsterous demon was there is now exorcised and the whole plane is white and ready for trim.
What an enormous pain. But as Mark Scarborough says, the best finishers are the ones that can overcome issues. This base is far from perfect and if I had the patience, I would sand the whole thing down with 600 wet, reshoot and make it perfect. But as it turns out, I don't have the patience and I don't want it to weigh 80oz when done. Shouldn't look too bad and has the chance of being done for VSC. Maybe.
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Shouldn't look too bad and has the chance of being done for VSC. Maybe.
Good luck from here on out, and get those VSC reservations made!
And yeah that reminds me, I haven't "seen" Mark around here for awhile.
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Mark's hanging out in Libby, Montana. Poor him.
Meanwhile, I plan to send in my reservation for the banquet and contest next month. My housing for the week is taken care of.
And since I finally go base color done (though it will now need some touch up due to tape pulling up paint bits - sigh), I got most of the paint on the fuse. Still some black and some stuff on the bottom to put on, but here it is so far.
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Looks good from here!
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Your a long way away. :D
It's OK, just needs some cleanup.
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So, more trim.
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Great looking scheme Randy, nice and clean. Must be pretty close to done by now?
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Hey Wayne,
Sorry, I was off on vacation for the last 12 days. Just got back. I will continue on this weekend. Getting close. Trying to decide how much in the way of inklines I want to invest. Worth didn't use many.
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Well, Getting closer to clear coat. Decided to "fix" an area around the canopy. Not sure it's any better. but I will repaint tonight. Ugh.
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Is it soup yet?
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Yes, it's done and on it's way to VSC with the wonderful Pete Peterson. I will follow next Sunday. Yippee. And here are the final pics. I haven't flown it yet (another year with an untested plane) but I suspect it will be a model toad.
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I hope it flies as well or better than it looks. That is gorgeous. Maybe Pete will test fly it and trim it out for you. LL~ LL~ Wish I could be there. :(
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Looks awesome Randy, definitely has a great Classic look. Glad to hear you're making VSC too, don't forget to double check the leadouts! ;D
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Best luck for a smooth maiden. Looks awesome!
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You gonna come to Stonehedge to fly it? I'll get out the mower (weather authorities permitting).
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Howard,
Well, unfortunately, like most of my trips to VSC. The plan is already gone with Pete to Tucson. I didn't get it done till about a minute before Pete left. I would love to come out to Stonehenge to fly after VSC. I look forward to it.
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Brief update. The plane has flown and I hooked up the lines correctly and everything. 2, 2 minute flights to insure that nothing awful happened and one full pattern. It issues but strangely, not the ones I thought it would have. I think it will ultimately all be correctable. For VSC, it should be relatively OK. Fully correctable when I can get it home. Cool plane, overall. Looks wicked in the air.
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Good to hear Randy, have fun and enjoy the trip!
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First Flight
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Well Randy, how'd it do at VSC?
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I would say he did good with a 24th out of 36 entries. Especially since the plane had first flights at VSC. Now Randy when you give up on it the old DOC is here to take it off your hands. LL~ LL~
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Just a note. I have some serious issues to deal with with the plane, but correctable. That's something. It did win the I-Beam award, so that's something.
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You deserved it Randy. Your plane is incredible. Chris and I studied it for a while. I think I picked up some neat things you did around the cowl and cockpit area I'll try to incorporate in my stuka build.
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Well con grats on the I-beam award. Would love to see the plane in person. H^^
Now you guys know why I don't plan on planes for VSC unless I have them built the year before. H^^
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Sounds good Randy, hopefully you can work out whatever little bugs you feel it has and then fly the heck out of this one. Congrats on the Beamer award too, I'm sure it was well deserved.
I'm already wondering what's next on the build list... :)
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Wayne,
It will be fine in the end. Does need some fixes, etc. And the new plan is a deep, dark secret. It's sorta based on a kit. Kinda. Pics will follow in the building thread at some point. The new one will not be real pretty but should fly well.
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Have you ever built an ughly plane? LL~ LL~
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Doc,
Several.
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So, follow up. The original drive train in the plane (E-Flite 32, 75amp ESC and 2800mAh, 5S 30c battery) weighed 23oz. Yea, that's heavy. Had to add 5+oz to the tail and it was still nose heavy. Yikes. Sucker weighed 65oz with battery. Not good. But on the plus side, I had most of 35% of the battery left after a flight.
So, ordered new drive train (Cobra 2826/12 motor, 50amp ESC and 2800mAh, 30c, 4s battery). New drive train weight: 15.9oz Yea, that's 7.1oz PLUS I lose the 5 and change ounces off the tail. End up being 12.3oz lighter bringing the overall weight down to about 53oz. That I can live with. Hope the set up has enough juice to drive the plane. Should.
And I found the hangup in the control system. Pretty stupid, too. Figures.
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That is quite a diet!!
What size prop will you use with your 4s setup?
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I know that you aren't asking, but is that the correct motor for 4 cells - Kv that you want. You may be pushed to fit a prop to the kv. I think that the motor is usually used with 5 cells.
In addition, the 28 series runs hot when in a built up fuse. See the threads below
https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/plane-for-cobra-282610-and-12/msg421221/#msg421221
https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/help-with-motor-overheating!/msg408846/#msg408846
You might find a more favorable kv in the 2826 series, or in the 3515 series with only 7 grams more weight.
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Randy, like Fred says, I Think you need a higher Kv rating. An Eflight power 25 Kv 870 or a Cobra 2826/10 930 Kv will let you get the RPM's you will looking for.
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The new (since Dec 2017) Brodak 2826 has a kv=950 (sweet spot for 4S) and is a 3-bearing motor with a doubled bearing at the top of the "tower". I expect it and the larger 3520 (also 950 kv) will be popular choices in this size range.
http://brodak.com/electric-accessories-1/motors/electric-motor-2826-c-35-48-kv950.html
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So, the 2826/10, 930kv is a better choice it seems. Have a couple of those in the drawer. And the weight is comparable to the 2826/12.
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So, the 2826/10, 930kv is a better choice it seems. Have a couple of those in the drawer. And the weight is comparable to the 2826/12.
Yep!
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And it's together and test run at least. Plane is now about a pound lighter. Still not a lightweight, but much lighter. Guess we'll see how it goes the weekend.
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Any report yet? Hope it all went well for you.
R,
Target
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I managed to get an ugly cold (benefits of working with kids) and didn't go to contest. I did manage to get out to a school yesterday and flew it twice. It's better.
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Been a loooong time Randy, what's going on at the Powellworks?
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Wayne,
Not a lot. Just finishing a PA plane. Not my usual deal but quick and light and should fly pretty good. I have the Avenger on the table for some work and some on the Mirage. Hope to have both classic planes fixed in the next couple of weeks. I'll fly both then decided which will go to VSC. Maybe pics when done.
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Sounds like you've been busy in the shop at least, good to hear. I don't recall your Mirage?
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The Mirage III is the subject of this thread.
;D
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The Mirage III is the subject of this thread.
;D
Oh duh, haven't paged back on this one for awhile. ;D
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Wayne,
Not a lot. Just finishing a PA plane. Not my usual deal but quick and light and should fly pretty good. I have the Avenger on the table for some work and some on the Mirage. Hope to have both classic planes fixed in the next couple of weeks. I'll fly both then decided which will go to VSC. Maybe pics when done.
Time's a tickin' Randy. The bus leaves in three weeks!
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Hey, Mike,
It's done. Just have to do a new arming connector. Will do this weekend. I'll get with you in a week or so to set up pick-up.
Thanks again for the ride.