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Author Topic: Nakke getting close to completion  (Read 3791 times)

Offline Steve Fitton

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Nakke getting close to completion
« on: January 16, 2008, 12:01:50 PM »
...Just waiting for some painting weather to throw some primer on it.  It will have a DS 50 under the hood when its complete.  Dixon foam wing with ultracote on wing and tail.  Fuselage is covered in 0.5 glass and epoxy at this point.
Steve

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 01:17:38 PM »
Stevie Boy,

Maybe you should throw away Bobby Champione's autographed copy of "How to build Stunt Planes at 80+ oz." and try to get one in at a good weight! LOL!!

Did you use a Veco T-Bird bubble canopy like the original?   Bill Sawyer has those.

Juhani's Nakke's were under 40 oz. according to reports of the day............  also, he was well known to remove the cowling of the NAKKE in competition to remove some nose weight.  And that was with a Veco 35, a pretty light engine.
I have a picture of his Nakke he flew at the '64 WC where he finished 2nd.  It still exists in Finland at the club he belonged to.

Otherwise, it looks good so far. ;D
Big Bear <><

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Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2008, 02:35:24 PM »
Hey Mr Bear!
  No, I haven't quite yet entered that elite group of 80 oz builders yet.  Then again, I haven't tried a Patternmaster size plane yet either! y1  Nor have I tried the Sparky "It must be sub-30 ounces or it won't leave the shop!" system, either VD~

I'm guessing the Nakke will come out around 45 ounces.  I should have asked you about the canopy ages ago, I had no idea Kari used a T-bird canopy.  I just used the plain old mark one mod zero Sig bubble.

Kari must have built to Bill Wewage lightness levels to reduce noseweight.  The Nakke has a big aft fuselage and a very large (for its day) stab and elevator.  I would have guessed tail heavy would be the problem Kari faced, not the other way around!
Steve

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 02:53:49 PM »
Hey Mr Bear!
  No, I haven't quite yet entered that elite group of 80 oz builders yet.  Then again, I haven't tried a Patternmaster size plane yet either! y1  Nor have I tried the Sparky "It must be sub-30 ounces or it won't leave the shop!" system, either VD~

I'm guessing the Nakke will come out around 45 ounces.  I should have asked you about the canopy ages ago, I had no idea Kari used a T-bird canopy.  I just used the plain old mark one mod zero Sig bubble.

Kari must have built to Bill Wewage lightness levels to reduce noseweight.  The Nakke has a big aft fuselage and a very large (for its day) stab and elevator.  I would have guessed tail heavy would be the problem Kari faced, not the other way around!

I have been looking at the Nakke since the very early '90s as a Classic plane.  So as I was researching I met Kerrko Kervahio (I know I didn't spell that correctly, but I don't have it in front of me!) 15 or so years ago.  He sent me pictures and old Finnish Model magazines.  Not much did I translate, but i saw and learned a good bit about the plane.  Minimal finish, although it didn't look *BAD*.  If you pretend the yellow you are using is orange, you could copy his '64 World plane exactly!  It had white and black trim, and I can send the scan of the picture I have.  Paul Tupker's plans are the definitive ones for the Nakke.

My long time goal that I set around '92 was to build the first three finishers from the WC for the first three Championships: '60, '62, and '64.  (that's where the Spacehound came from!) and do them exactly as they were originally, down to power and paint schemes.  I have since decided that keeping the power trains the same wasn't AS important! LOL!! (anyway it was impossible to find one of only 21 MVVS special made RISE stunt engines!)  I have 4 of the possible 9 planes done.   But some are now in need of great repair.  I plan on modifying (as Mr. Grondal DID!) a '57 Green Box Nobler I have to match his '60-'62 Championship AMA Special (Grondal Nobler).  May have it finished by next fall.
Big Bear <><

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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2008, 01:15:41 AM »
Quote
I have seen one of Bills planes, and it looks better in life than in photos. Very tempting.

Ty, am I the *Bill* you are referring to?? ???  If so, thank you, thank you very much!  Most of the guys here believe I build dogs.  Actually I have only one dog right now, an 85 pound female Lab puppy.......
LL~ LL~ LL~
Big Bear <><

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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2008, 08:14:14 AM »
Bill,
I have Thunderbird II canopies in stock. I dupicated the kit canopy. (www.blueskymodels.net)
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Offline Aaron Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2008, 10:27:34 PM »
Yes it is thee.  Which one was it you built? A Russian stunter if I recall. You had it a Marietta and had some engine problems or a broken prop and prop run. . But the plane flew great. H^^

dont want to take over steve's thread on his cool looking nakke but the plane dad had was a sirotkin(i think) space hound very odd plane as it had a very small stab/elevator and what i would consider a thin wing
his model used the thin plastic racing wheels in an attempt to re-create the original along with mockba or moscow in english on the wing

the engine burned up in that, it was an old st46 and the ring finally let go and we had a nice black stripe or stripes added

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 06:51:19 PM »
I think the wheels were actually granite machined by Derek at his job. y1  Bill got the idea for using the heaviest possible wheels after helping co-author Lampione's book on how to build 80 ounce stunters. (!!!) They did make an impressive sound on landing, but the vibration from them was shaking the covering off every time it landed! VD~ VD~ S?P LL~

That said, it was a very cool plane that flew quite well, and I was bummmed when the ring grenaded before Bill could get his officials in that day.  Hopefully the Spacehound will be repaired and reengined to ride again sometime!
Steve

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2008, 11:24:16 PM »
I think the wheels were actually granite machined by Derek at his job. y1  Bill got the idea for using the heaviest possible wheels after helping co-author Lampione's book on how to build 80 ounce stunters. (!!!) They did make an impressive sound on landing, but the vibration from them was shaking the covering off every time it landed! VD~ VD~ S?P LL~

That said, it was a very cool plane that flew quite well, and I was bummmed when the ring grenaded before Bill could get his officials in that day.  Hopefully the Spacehound will be repaired and reengined to ride again sometime!

It might.  I really liked that model.

BTW: I left a message on your phone, but never got a reply.  What's up?
Big Bear <><

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Offline Joe Connelly

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2008, 01:01:50 PM »
Hi Bill,
  Could you post a picture of the original here on Control Line Stunt. My Nakke is still in primer and I'm looking for ideas.

                                                                                                      Thanks, Joe Connelly

Online Alan Buck

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2008, 03:13:54 PM »
STEVE Finish it by saturday and Rakes and I will stop by and help test fly it. it is looking good D.S.50 will work if it runs like your 60. if not put a good old la46 and tip the nitro can    ALAN
ALAN E BUCK

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2008, 01:37:46 AM »
Hi Bill,
  Could you post a picture of the original here on Control Line Stunt. My Nakke is still in primer and I'm looking for ideas.

                                                                                                      Thanks, Joe Connelly

Hi Joe,

Let me find the picture and scan it.  It is safely put away in a drawer in the computer room.  So safely that I will have to search to find it!  LL~ LL~

It is the actual pane Juhani Flew in '64.  Kerrko sent it to me and someone in the club had landed inverted with it removing the canopy, tore up the nose block and skinned up the fin.   He did power his with a Veco 35.  Juhani was a teenager when he finished 2nd, and there was a general consensus that he probably should have win.
Big Bear <><

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Eric Viglione

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2008, 05:47:52 AM »
I remember Tom Dixon's version of this plane. Interestingly enough, I also remember Tom pulling the motor to swap with a customer (a DS50) , but having to swap backplates, because Tom's had a bunch of lead melted into the backplate to help balance the Nakke. Tom's flew very well, and in typical fashion, the master of slack lines flew it fairly slow and still made it look very good. I never asked Tom if his was tail heavy, heavy over-all, or if the design just needed more nose weight than the DS50 could provide, but judging from other comments in this thread about the designer flying without a cowl... well, who knows. Either way, it's a nice size classic ship with a thick airfoil and a large stab. Steve ought to have a winner!

EricV

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2008, 11:30:46 AM »
I remember Tom Dixon's version of this plane. Interestingly enough, I also remember Tom pulling the motor to swap with a customer (a DS50) , but having to swap backplates, because Tom's had a bunch of lead melted into the backplate to help balance the Nakke. Tom's flew very well, and in typical fashion, the master of slack lines flew it fairly slow and still made it look very good. I never asked Tom if his was tail heavy, heavy over-all, or if the design just needed more nose weight than the DS50 could provide, but judging from other comments in this thread about the designer flying without a cowl... well, who knows. Either way, it's a nice size classic ship with a thick airfoil and a large stab. Steve ought to have a winner!

EricV

Hi Eric, ;D

I really could care less than an obese rodent's posterior as to the *cowl less* part, but it is a part of verified HISTORY! LL~   And if anyone can read Finnish and I can find my Finnish Magazine Kerrkho sent me, (along with Aeromodeller) we could all read the printed comments as well as the competitor's comments at the time. ;D

Anyway, I wouldn't want to compare a build from Tom (kept foam and all) to a build 44 years ago done in Finland! LOL!!!!!!!!  I have no idea if Tom likes to fly grossly nose heavy like a lot of people do, either.  But, Tom can do a real good job of building when he takes his time! LL~

Let's leave it at Juhani removed his cowl from HIS plane, often.  Verified...... ;D
Big Bear <><

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Eric Viglione

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2008, 07:17:23 AM »
Bill - It's amazing the conclusions one can jump to when things are left to the readers imagination. Did you really think I meant to accuse someone of making it up that he flew without a cowl? I wanted to avoid discussing the reasoning behind his decision to do so and didn't want to diminish the kids accomplishments. I really just didn't want it to turn into a discussion about how far we have come in trimming knowledge since then, but since you've called me to the matt...

I was guessing that plane was probably too light for the amount of flap at it's weight and control ratios used. Since they didn't know any better, he probably flew without the cowl to try to get better turn, where he probably would have been better off going the Bob G. route and trimming off some flap. Since Steve is building his in the same method as Dixon, it only seemed logical to present him with some facts that I knew from what I saw of Tom's. My guess is that the heavier version with the heavier more modern powerful engine will actually fly better than the original, all due respect to the designer. If Steve was building it with ribs, a Veco35 and a 3" perfect b/c, I'd probably suggest he put a slider horn on the elevator and to be prepared to use it.  Bill, you really need to lighten up. I'm not the kind of person that goes around casually calling people liars, even in round about fashion.  n1 If I have a problem with you, YOU WILL KNOW IT! Subtleties are usually lost on me as well, so no harm no foul. Now cheer up, GO PATS!  y1 >:D

EricV

Hi Eric, ;D

I really could care less than an obese rodent's posterior as to the *cowl less* part, but it is a part of verified HISTORY! LL~   And if anyone can read Finnish and I can find my Finnish Magazine Kerrkho sent me, (along with Aeromodeller) we could all read the printed comments as well as the competitor's comments at the time. ;D

Anyway, I wouldn't want to compare a build from Tom (kept foam and all) to a build 44 years ago done in Finland! LOL!!!!!!!!  I have no idea if Tom likes to fly grossly nose heavy like a lot of people do, either.  But, Tom can do a real good job of building when he takes his time! LL~

Let's leave it at Juhani removed his cowl from HIS plane, often.  Verified...... ;D

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2008, 08:55:57 AM »
HI Eric,

Sorry, I fall victim to the curse of the internet.  Smileys are meant to relay the less than personal attack part.  Didn't want to get into the Tom vs. Juhani deal either.

Peace!  ;D
Bill <><
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Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2008, 07:40:18 PM »
The Pats suck, I hope they go down in flames tomorrow! n~
Steve

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2008, 01:26:49 PM »
Bill,

I would love to see a picture of your "Spacehound". That airplane always intrigued me, but for the thin airfoil. The swooping bottom loos like it would hurt the presentation in square maneuvers. But still a neat airplane.

maybe you could post your "Spacehound" pictures on a new thread, since we have hijacked this one.

Steve,
Today, I am a Giant fan again!
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2008, 09:57:02 AM »
Bill,

I would love to see a picture of your "Spacehound". That airplane always intrigued me, but for the thin airfoil. The swooping bottom loos like it would hurt the presentation in square maneuvers. But still a neat airplane.

maybe you could post your "Spacehound" pictures on a new thread, since we have hijacked this one.

Steve,
Today, I am a Giant fan again!

Hi Tom,

I will try to find some pictures, I don't remember if I have any!

The Spacehound was definitely an FAI plane.  VERY SMOOTH flyer!  Rounds are a piece of cake to fly.  The tail feathers are really tiny, and squares do suffer.

As Steve said the last time I flew it, it does present very well,though, and it is super easy to fly.  I took no real pains to keep it light, and it ended up at 49 oz. according to Windy! (!!)  It's unveiling was at Flushing for Joe's last contest there..........  Powered mine with a ST 46.  It needs a pretty major overhaul right now, both the plane and the engine!  Silkspan became so brittle that looking at it splits it.  Guess I lost (or forgot) the plasticizer!
Big Bear <><

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Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2008, 07:18:22 PM »
I took advantage of the warmer weather to get some grey primer on the Nakke.  Now, I get to create lots of grey dust over everything!
Steve

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2008, 09:48:33 PM »
Finally complete.  The Lustrecote was the usual pain to work with, but its over now.  48 oz ready to fly.  Hopefully this summer I can trim it out and see what I've got!
Steve

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2008, 08:35:56 AM »
Hey that is my type of airplane,  nice and simple.  I love the simple paint jobs as to me they are the hardest to cover up the flaws.  I see then RNMM may be after you for no pilot or ####### detail,  but, I like it.  Hope it flies as well as it looks.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
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Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2008, 12:44:57 PM »
Doc, you should see some of the paint jobs Eddy Ruane does.  He had an exquisite Juno with a all red finish over an immaculate structure.  If I recall the wings were a translucent shade of red so you could see all the Warren truss I beams as well.  Eddy could make a simple paint job really stand out.

Mine paint jobs are simple because I'm an incompetent finisher, thats all....(!)
Steve

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2008, 09:07:00 AM »
Hi Steve,

I got a feeling that you should really like the NAKKE.  It is a great flier. 

I am hoping to build one in the mid 30 oz. range, under 40 at least, and use a very strong Veco 35 with a paint job to match Juhani's '64 2nd place WC plane.  I know it would be probably better with an Aero Tiger 36, ST 46, or DS 50, but I want to see how that plane did when Juhani flew it.

I have sorta worked on some stuff lately.  The magazine plane, and a Grondal AMA Special.  The P-51B *Hunt Mustang* is really coming along.  I am making the turtle deck this weekend if all goes as planned!

Once we get a budget worked out with my retirement, and I can find good balsa (!!), I will be a contest going fool! LOL!!  (we can car pool and I wil practice up to kick your butt! LOL!!
Big Bear <><

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Offline Jim Pollock

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2008, 08:00:57 PM »
Bill,

Yeah, as far as contests go, I think your a lot closer to Huntersville than I am to Marietta, Memphis or Clanton.

Jim Pollock 

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2008, 11:12:24 AM »
Bill,

Yeah, as far as contests go, I think your a lot closer to Huntersville than I am to Marietta, Memphis or Clanton.

Jim Pollock 

Hi Jim,

Is is only about 2 1/2 hours to Huntersville, so you ARE probably correct.  But it is harder and harder with the rising costs of everything to come up with what is about twice the cost to go to Huntersville (even!) than it was back in '92 when I got  my first win there in '92

Bill
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Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2008, 07:57:25 AM »
The Nakke took flight this past Sunday, on a typical breezy Fentriss day.  On first impression, this will be a good flying plane, and darn near flies right off the board.  Looks like a half turn of roll trim, leadouts forward 1/8th, slightly longer lines, 1/4 oz more tipweight, replace the current handle with a Kaz handle, replace the 4-40 steel cowl hold down bolt with a nylon one, and I'll be all set!!
Steve

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Nakke getting close to completion
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2008, 02:51:59 PM »
Glad to hear the plane is showing promise.  Looks like a lot of changes you are making after a couple of flights.  Keep us posted and remember the gear is on the bottom side when landing.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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