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Author Topic: KA-10  (Read 26843 times)

Offline Dave_Trible

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KA-10
« on: December 27, 2013, 10:59:16 AM »
Just aquired a new Russian engine-a Raduga 7cc (.42) stunt motor- and think a KA-10 would be a natural choice for it a some point.  I'm fairly sure the plans for it are available somewhere but don't know where.  Anyone know?  Also I remember a Yuri Sirotkin (spelling) Criterium of Aces airplane from the mid 60s that looked sharp.  Anyone have clues?

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Offline rustler

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2013, 01:51:03 PM »
Hi. I had one of those Radugas. Never ran it, but it felt excellent. Subsequently they seemed to aquire rather a bad reputation. Maybe give it a good bit of bench running to check it out first.
KA-10 - Not sure about this, but maybe Tom Dixon does a plan?
Sirotkin model? - Spacehound?
Ian Russell.
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Offline Mike Keville

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 04:08:31 PM »
Am pretty sure Tom Dixon has the KA-10 plan.  Give him a call...
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 04:14:57 PM »
Thanks!  I'll check him out.
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Re: KA-10
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 07:41:32 PM »
Just aquired a new Russian engine-a Raduga 7cc (.42) stunt motor- and think a KA-10 would be a natural choice for it a some point.  I'm fairly sure the plans for it are available somewhere but don't know where.  Anyone know?  Also I remember a Yuri Sirotkin (spelling) Criterium of Aces airplane from the mid 60s that looked sharp.  Anyone have clues?

The motor makes a great conversation piece but as far as stunt qualities, it's complete junk. The only good thing you can get out of the motor is the lightweight magnesium spinner that came with it.
In order to make it usable for stunt, one needs to replace piston,liner, crankshaft, head, backplate and the crankcase bearing inserts replaces.

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 09:10:12 PM »
The motor makes a great conversation piece but as far as stunt qualities, it's complete junk. The only good thing you can get out of the motor is the lightweight magnesium spinner that came with it.
In order to make it usable for stunt, one needs to replace piston,liner, crankshaft, head, backplate and the crankcase bearing inserts replaces.

Sounds perfect!  I'll make a great engine out of it!
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 11:04:41 PM »
I've got a set of KA-10 plans. Looks like a good plane.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2013, 07:04:28 AM »
It's a good looking ship.  I'm seeing that the Raduga might not be enough power for it.  Probably perfect for a PA .51.  I think the Sirotkin plane I had in mind is the Spacehound.  Now to find plans for that.......
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Online Lauri Malila

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2013, 09:11:59 AM »
I may have the Spacehound plans.. I'll try to find them tonight. L

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2013, 12:16:11 PM »
Super!  Thanks Lauri!
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steven yampolsky

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2013, 01:04:17 PM »
Spacehound was a 60's era design. Raduga was a 70's design. How about something Russian from the 70's. To get inches, just divide the number by 25.4.

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2013, 05:52:54 PM »
Not bad Steven.  Might see what FedEx/Kinkos can do with that.  I've been liking the Sirotkin airplane since an early age after seeing it in an old American Modeller Annual.  Lauri is getting the plans for me from Finland.  How's that for international flair?
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steven yampolsky

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2013, 10:49:31 PM »
Not bad Steven.  Might see what FedEx/Kinkos can do with that.  I've been liking the Sirotkin airplane since an early age after seeing it in an old American Modeller Annual.  Lauri is getting the plans for me from Finland.  How's that for international flair?

Let me know if you need any help with translation or additional information. I have been practicing Russian reading and writing over the past two years and am finally proficient enough to post on a Russian CL forum and have people actually understand me!


Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2013, 07:28:57 AM »
That's a bargin.  I do well to speak Kansan sometimes,  being an old Missouri boy.   I'm thinking this will be good for classic when I start flying that more actively.  Wonderful as they are you can only see so many Noblers and Ares.  There are so many others to choose from.  In that time stuff from Eastern Europe seemed exotic and secret somehow.  Interesting to really flesh them out.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 07:47:59 PM »
The Raduga got here from Prague.  It case anyone wanted to see what came from CCCP:
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 07:48:34 PM »
...
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 07:49:03 PM »
...
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2014, 08:32:14 PM »
Everything on the engine is metric.  It hits that maybe the glow plug was to- whew,  took a good old American plug fine.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2014, 08:45:52 AM »
Hopefully  in another couple of months we can get some time on that engine.   Poor mower is sitting under the tarp waiting for mowing time.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2014, 10:19:47 AM »
I know John.  Thought I might get a shot to fly this Sunday but I doubt now the snow will be melted off.  Then a mud hole anyway.......
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2014, 08:24:11 AM »
As I sit here ready to leave for Church, I see the trees waving all over the place and stuff blowing off the porch.
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2014, 08:42:14 AM »
Hi Dave,

I finally got back on line!  So, here's what I have for you:  The KA 10, need to use a good ST G.51, or slightly bigger like a ST .60.  Original had a homemade .54.  Tom's plans are a "best guess" as far as the KA10 goes.  There are some drawings directly from Mr. Kolesnikov that show some minor differences.  This model came about 1988 (he won the Worlds in 1986 with the KA8)

Spacehound:  One of my favorite Classic planes.  I flew one in competition back when I could fly half way decent.  It is a very thin wing, a tiny tail and a HUGE fuselage when depth is concerned.  I loved it, the easiest plane to fly round maneuvers ever, but not a hard corner at all.  The fuselage shape really accents round maneuvers.  I actually use a ST .46 in mine, but Juri used a MVVS .35 in winning the '64 World's with a 10-4 prop turning high rpm (low pitch high rpm run).

Let me know if I can be of help
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2014, 07:50:49 PM »
Hi Bill!  Glad you're back.  Had us worried a little.  Yes the Spacehound is the plane I saw in that picture as a youngster.  I'll build one in the not- to - distant future when I get plans.  Lauri I think is going to get them for me if possible from Finland but just in case,  you got?
Glad you are back but keep your head down- flack in abundance lately!
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2014, 01:43:14 PM »
Hi Bill!  Glad you're back.  Had us worried a little.  Yes the Spacehound is the plane I saw in that picture as a youngster.  I'll build one in the not- to - distant future when I get plans.  Lauri I think is going to get them for me if possible from Finland but just in case,  you got?
Glad you are back but keep your head down- flack in abundance lately!

Hi Dave,

Sorry for the late reply, just trying to play catch up!  I am sure I have the plans I built from but the Aero Modeller plans are the "real" thing!  No difference but drawn way better!

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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2014, 07:28:35 PM »
Dallas Hanna was kind enough to forward me the plan set.  Still on my phone,  I'll get to FedEx on my day off and get them downloaded ( before I screw up and lose them).
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Offline PerttiMe

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2014, 09:19:43 AM »
Hi Bill!  Glad you're back.  Had us worried a little.  Yes the Spacehound is the plane I saw in that picture as a youngster.  I'll build one in the not- to - distant future when I get plans.  Lauri I think is going to get them for me if possible from Finland but just in case,  you got?
Glad you are back but keep your head down- flack in abundance lately!
I'm pretty sure the Finnish source for Spacehound plans is http://www.modell.yolasite.com/ (his email is there on the front page too, if you patiently look...)
People have dealt with him in English before. I believe Dennis A got a couple of plans from him.

Outerzone has an Aeromodeller plan for Spacehound, for download, if you prefer PDF to paper plans.
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2014, 07:07:24 PM »
Thank you for that.  I think the stuff I got from Dallas will do for the Spacehound but I found a couple others there I want.  The Gabris Supermaster and Berkely/Fox Falcon I'll order.  My dad built the Falcon in the 60 s from a kit with no plans and some of it missing.  Surprisingly it looked pretty much like the picture on the box when done.  It was very light and a big floater with the Johnson .35 SS up front.  I wrecked it before I knew the pattern.
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2014, 05:06:06 PM »
Thank you for that.  I think the stuff I got from Dallas will do for the Spacehound but I found a couple others there I want.  The Gabris Supermaster and Berkely/Fox Falcon I'll order.  My dad built the Falcon in the 60 s from a kit with no plans and some of it missing.  Surprisingly it looked pretty much like the picture on the box when done.  It was very light and a big floater with the Johnson .35 SS up front.  I wrecked it before I knew the pattern.

Ah, the Josef Gabris SUPERMASTER!  This one of the very best flying of all the Classic ships (except the USA-1, no others in its class!).  I have plans and made some parts to the forerunner of the Supermaster, ie: the MASTER.  Gabris won the Criterium de Aces in 1958 with that one.  I have an almost new Akrobat .42 that has been set up for stunt and it appears to be similar to an ST .46 as to run, etc..  We shall see!

Kaz Minato, or his flying buddy, Hiki, had a Supermaster that could easily be used in Expert.

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Offline Bill Little

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2014, 12:14:19 PM »
Hi Dave,

I forgot to add that I will be using a Discovery Retro .60 in my KA10 when I get to it.  Definitely will be a "Soviet Block" model airplane!

BIG Bear
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2014, 07:18:08 PM »
Bill that should be interesting!  I like the way those I've seen run at the Nats.  Like to have one.  Thought I was going to get one from someone there this past year but they didn't bring it.  So I got his PA .75 instead.  These all have been side mounted ala Shark.  Will yours be?  Wonder if they run the same vertically.
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2014, 08:46:03 PM »
Bill that should be interesting!  I like the way those I've seen run at the Nats.  Like to have one.  Thought I was going to get one from someone there this past year but they didn't bring it.  So I got his PA .75 instead.  These all have been side mounted ala Shark.  Will yours be?  Wonder if they run the same vertically.

Hi Dave,

I talked to a couple guys who are running them outside of the Yatsenko models and they reported that they ran pretty much the same.  We will see!  If it doesn't work I will just cut into the nose and install a good ST .51.

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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2014, 09:23:11 PM »
I bet it will be fine.  I understand these are best with little to no nitro.  They also are using a wide paddle blade prop of unknown dimensions ( to me ).  If you DO decide to pass on it and would sell it or trade let me know.  Still like to fiddle with one.
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Offline Dallas Hanna

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2014, 10:42:20 PM »
Thank you for that.  I think the stuff I got from Dallas will do for the Spacehound but I found a couple others there I want.  The Gabris Supermaster and Berkely/Fox Falcon I'll order.  My dad built the Falcon in the 60 s from a kit with no plans and some of it missing.  Surprisingly it looked pretty much like the picture on the box when done.  It was very light and a big floater with the Johnson .35 SS up front.  I wrecked it before I knew the pattern.

Just in case you need the Supermaster plan it's in your email Dave!

HH

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2014, 07:13:35 AM »
Dallas you are incredible!  Thank you!
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2014, 04:29:01 PM »
Dallas just to let you know I downloaded the Super Master PDF and after a few tries to get the scale about right have good plans.  The guy at FedEx didn't have any better Czech language skills than I but I guessed a 2" spinner and scaled from there.  Actually shot at 1 7/8" but it's metric right?   The wheels scaled exactly 2 1/2".  Have to be close.  Thanks again!   Starting to wonder about putting a pipe in........

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Offline Bill Little

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2014, 04:53:17 PM »
I bet it will be fine.  I understand these are best with little to no nitro.  They also are using a wide paddle blade prop of unknown dimensions ( to me ).  If you DO decide to pass on it and would sell it or trade let me know.  Still like to fiddle with one.

Hi Dave,

The DR .60 props that came with it are 13.2 X 5.9 (from memory, the props are not in front of me.  The optional prop is 13.2 X 6.2.  These are very accurately made with a plastic like laminate over them.  I already have the first gallon of FAI fuel ready for it.  It will be a model I will be very interested in.  Mainly to see how it compares to a typical US stunter like an SV 11, etc.  I saw one flying years ago and it looked good in the air.

To be honest it is NOT a "Classic" vintage model, it almost fits in the Nostalgia 30 class.  It hails from around 1988.  More a contemporary of the early Impact series and the Trivial Pursuit series.  K.A. won the '86 Worlds wit the KA 8 in 1986 which is VERY similar.  On the KA 10, gone are the wing mounted LG replaced by fuse mounted LG, but otherwise very similar in overall appearance.

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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2014, 06:01:50 PM »
I know it sure builds out beautifully.  I've seen at least one fly, and quite well.  It seems somewhat (by memory) like the Yatsenko Classic to look at.  I like the Euro designs.  Many have an exciting look to them.  They might have put a little more effort into styling than we did at the time.  When you get going on yours please put up some photos.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2014, 06:05:23 PM »
Also forgot to mention a have two 1970 Czech Tono 5.6s coming from Prague where they were built by Stary.  One might end up in the Super Master.  They were really into rear valve engines.  Will take some getting used to.
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Offline Dallas Hanna

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2014, 12:01:44 AM »
Dallas just to let you know I downloaded the Super Master PDF and after a few tries to get the scale about right have good plans.  The guy at FedEx didn't have any better Czech language skills than I but I guessed a 2" spinner and scaled from there.  Actually shot at 1 7/8" but it's metric right?   The wheels scaled exactly 2 1/2".  Have to be close.  Thanks again!   Starting to wonder about putting a pipe in........

There is a 300mm scale bottom left on plan Dave. That's 11 13/16" to you fellows!!   How does that look for size?  Gabris most likely had a 50mm spinner but the Aeromodeller plan from The UK is in inches and shows a 2" spinner. I'll send the other plan but quality isn't as good. 

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2014, 07:42:13 AM »
Thanks Dallas.  Reading in the Kings English will help in spots.  The key is/was your words '55"'.  Now I have something solid to work with.  I didn't realize how big this was for the time. Definitely needs hp.  A really cool airplane as is the Spacehound.  My build list is about 22 airplanes long.....I'm going to put these in around 4 and 5.  That list only includes two new Pampa/FAI ships!
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2014, 02:20:23 PM »
Hi Dave,

Considering your "Build List" compared to mine, we have seen a "Cosmic Shift" in my "Build List".  I built "my" last PAMPA Class model in 1997, 17 years ago.  It is still in very good flying condition, Aaron used it last year at Huntersville after his bump up with his Satana.  No problems!  Not even really oil soaked or anything........... I got lucky!  As my old quote used to say, "Even a blind Hog grubs up an acorn now and then!"  That pretty much explains me.

Now my list is overwhelmed with PAMPA models.  And I haven't been able to fly in a meet for over two years.  Haven't had a handle in my hand for that long...........

There are about 3 in that list that are Nos. 30 designs which will EASILY double as PAMPA models.  Like the Genesis MK III w/PA 51, large can muffler off header; Juno w/T&L ST .46; Stiletto 660 w/ Randy Smith or T&L ST .51.  All of these will be great PAMPA Advanced level models which will give me two extra flights, in front of judges, at each meet!  (and I will not have to switch models!)

On the "strict" PAMPA side (not counting what is on the bench) will be a Classic (Smith Ryte Flyte wing, PA .61 on pipe) by Randy Smith, a Vic Macaluso F-14 TomCat II (SV 11 wing and stab/elev., PA .51 w/can muffler off header), and my own Scale-Stunt Design in collaboration with Master Ron Burn (PA .61 on pipe, Lost Foam wing fixture).

After those, it will be finishing up kits and short kits which include UHP Impact (full kit) OS .40VF piped, UHP '96 Bear (full kit) PA .51 or .61 piped, Lazer Works KA 10 (short kit) Discovery Retro .60.

(this leaves out several models the que, and must be built!)

Gotta have a couple more healthy decades to get these done! LL~ LL~

BIG Bear
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2014, 04:58:25 PM »
Bill it sounds like we BOTH will need at least a couple more decades to get our build lists done.  And of course they change.  I'm thinking these three Pampa ships I'm finishing now along with one or two older ones will fill that niche for a number of years.  I think I'm going to pickle one of these in a dark locker in the basement and pull it out 2-3 years from now.  Love my Desperados but these may be the last of them (7).  With the new power tricks I'm working on I think my future Pampa efforts will be a semi-scale Wedell Williams and a built up version of my Sukhoi.  I have the airplanes mentioned above on my list,  a Skylark,  Spitfire and Veco Hurricane to do-all original kits I got recently.  The Warburton Tony is there as is the Argus.  Lew's Vega .35 and a handful of ignition OT are there as are a couple super antiques to put my two Browns in.  Well that's about 2/3 rds of it. 
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2014, 06:35:12 PM »
Hi Dave,

Have you seen my Argus?  It should be in the Photo Gallery under District 4.

BIG Bear
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2014, 04:50:04 AM »
That's beautiful Bill!  How did it fly for you?  Wooley liked the green.  The Cobra in the museum looks the same.  No more Sig green.  I scraped up the last few drops I had for trim on my new ones from an old can.  Still shows on their color chart but can't order it.  Not sure what I'll put on my Spitfire and Hurricane.  You did a great job on that airplane.
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2014, 08:13:36 AM »
That's beautiful Bill!  How did it fly for you?  Wooley liked the green.  The Cobra in the museum looks the same.  No more Sig green.  I scraped up the last few drops I had for trim on my new ones from an old can.  Still shows on their color chart but can't order it.  Not sure what I'll put on my Spitfire and Hurricane.  You did a great job on that airplane.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the kind words!  It was a good flying model.  I held 1st in Adv. Classic for most of the day at Brodak with it a few years ago.

The color Steve used was an acrylic Lacquer similar to a '57 Chevy.  Thanks to a dear friend I got a piece of silkspan from an original Wooley Argus showing all three colors.  I had them computer matched at the paint shop.  It is pretty authentic!

BIG Bear
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James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

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Trying to get by

Offline rustler

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2014, 01:33:20 PM »
When I attended the Criterium d'Europe in Brussells in '58 and '59, the Russkies were using the Kometa 29 engine, and they were pretty good, fine pitch high'ish revs. Almost certainly specially put together, and better than the run-of-the-mill Kometas which became available in due course.
However, I did have one so clapped out I needed a special "priming" brew of 50/25/25, Castor/Methanol/Nitro to start. Once running it then flew o.k. on a std. brew with 30% Castor, with which I had filled the tank. I had this engine in a G. Box Nobler (kit) and it took it very well. Very noisy.
Ian Russell.
[I can remember the schedule o.k., the problem is remembering what was the last manoeuvre I just flew!].

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2014, 05:47:10 PM »
Was the Kometa a rear valve engine?  Seems the common in the eastern block then. 
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Offline rustler

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2014, 02:34:14 PM »
Was the Kometa a rear valve engine?  Seems the common in the eastern block then. 

Dave - The Kometa was a clone of the ring-piston version of the ST G21/29, so a front intake engine.
Kometas appear fairly regularly on e-b, and don't cost a lot. I never did understand the test Aeromodeller did on one at the time, - just about the same power as a .15 . Mine was a lot better than that.
Ian Russell.
[I can remember the schedule o.k., the problem is remembering what was the last manoeuvre I just flew!].

Offline Bill Little

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2014, 05:34:02 PM »
Dave - The Kometa was a clone of the ring-piston version of the ST G21/29, so a front intake engine.
Kometas appear fairly regularly on e-b, and don't cost a lot. I never did understand the test Aeromodeller did on one at the time, - just about the same power as a .15 . Mine was a lot better than that.

Hi Ian,

Still looking for one of the (21) MVVS rear valve 5.6 (.35) the Soviets were using around 1964, but of course I have not won the lottery yet!  But if I do get one, I will do a super job on a Spacehound for it!  LL~ LL~

BIG Bear
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James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: KA-10
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2014, 02:35:15 PM »
The Tonos have arrived with a little surprise.  These were built by Mr. Stary in Prague in 1970 as hand built 5.6.  The one on the left is.  However the one on the right with the tall stack is MUCH larger- something close to a .60.  They both have dual rings with the second ring way down on the piston.  Something like 1/2" from the top.  Obviously keeps the piston square in the bore.  The 5.6 is 9 ounces.  The .6......is 13.5.  Not as heavy as they look but surely sturdy.  The velocity stack will make choking easy.  Did somebody say KA-10?  Both appear new.
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