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Classic Designs => Classic Planes => Topic started by: Clint Ormosen on September 27, 2014, 10:00:19 PM
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New Classic started. First model in the new shop, too
1969 was a good year. Or so I've heard.
Lampione's F-86 Sabre.
edit: forgot to mention that this is another of Walter Umland's fine short kits.
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Cool, this will be fun to watch. What are you planning for power Clint?
I'm partial to the Brodak 40 for most of these Classic era models. It's a no surprises power package for me as I've used them in my last several models. I know what props, fuel, tank size, and rpm range they like. I expect this plane to weigh roughly 44-48 oz and the sq.in. is about 610. So the Brodak should be perfect.
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Progress report.
For some reason the forum is only letting me add one pic per post. If I add two, I get a "file to large" message. I'll figure it out later.
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I usually start sanding and shaping as I go, but balsa dust kills me these days. So, I'm just doing all the big construction work first then I'll put away the jigs and use my new handy dandy sanding table to suck all the nasty dust as I shape stuff.
Doing the hinge slots and horn holes here. Yes, I'm using more than 2 per side!
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The Sabre's wing is a bit thin for this style of BC. A Tom Morris style would have fit better. Less hogging out of the ribs for clearance.
That is not spruce BC mounts. It's just old balsa turned brown.
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More
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Any more progress here Clint? D>K
A little bit. Not much photo worthy, though. Been working on wing tips, LG blocks, doping the tail feathers, little stuff like that.
Edit: a few pics
Wing tips
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Misc. stuff.
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Nope. They don't fit without interfering with the movement. '' See how close they are to the brass stand offs? So those little ones have thread locker on them then I covered them with JB weld. Probably never come off. I hope.
The elevator horn has a lock nut, though.
Hmm, it's your call Clint but the photo still makes me nervous, seeing how little bolt you've got sticking through. Can you flip the direction of the bolts from what you're showing in the photo and then put a washer and locknut against the ball joint bushing? Looking at the photo you would need a slightly longer bolt to do so (so it would reach the nylock portion of the nut) but it looks like it might work. If it's possible, I'd do that and then also red Loctite the nut on final assembly. Whatever let's you sleep... ;D :##
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Good timing, Wayne. A little more progress.
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Went back to work on it this evening. Lots of sanding and shaping taking place.
Slipped everything together just to get a mockup photo.
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Very nice work. Very nice.
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It's always fun when they finally start looking like an airplane. Thanks for the update Clint, it's looking great! y1
Here's something to think about... S?P
http://www.findmodelkit.com/sites/default/files/2590a.jpg
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/jetregistry/f86registry/images/f86-524959-a.jpg
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...knock-knock...Clint?
Yeah yeah, I know. Get busy.
Nothing to report except its time to start doping the wood.
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Just kind of anxious to see'er done is all Clint, with your skills I'm confident this one is going to look great. y1
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I've become so allergic to balsa dust that being in shop just isn't any fun anymore.
Man, that sucks to hear Clint. Over the years I've heard a few people talk about being allergic to balsa dust, what are the symptoms?
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Man, that sucks to hear Clint. Over the years I've heard a few people talk about being allergic to balsa dust, what are the symptoms?
It's just like Gerald says. All the same symptoms as bad hay fever, which I already have to endure as well. It used to only bother me when doing heavy duty sanding, but now all I have to do be around the stuff for a few minuets and I go through a roll of TP blowing my nose. It totally sucks. I have all these awesome planes to build but right now I couldn't be less interested.
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I use a rebreather mask when doing serious sanding. My nose goes crazy if I don't. But I'm allergic to about anything that grows, so....
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Coughing, sneezing, hacking, etc., etc. %^@
Heck, I've always assumed that was all part of the fun!
Seriously, I get real bad hay fever every fall, usually shows up like clockwork mid-August and lasts until the first hard freeze or so. First noticed it one summer when I was 18 or 19 and I get it every year since. It does really suck when it's bad, times when your nose runs like a faucet and just will not stop. I've had periods where I'll have to set my alarm clock 10 or 15 minutes early to allow for the sneezing and runny nose blowing before I can start to get ready to go to work. Over the years I think I've tried every over-the-counter product there is for it, plus a few prescriptions. Nothing ever even phased it until I tried "Allergy D" 12 hour pills. It's just a simple product that's available behind the Pharmacy counter at Wal-Mart, no prescription required, just show your ID. It doesn't make you feel all weirded-out like a lot of them do either, at least any more than normal. :##
I've used it for about 8-9 years now and it works really well. During "the season" it works well enough for me that around the 11th hour I can actually start to tell that I need to pop another. On rare occasion when it get's really bad I'll eat one every six hours. That's probably not a real good thing but at times it's a necessary evil just to even be able to function. Might be worth a try Clint, we need you back here!
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I use a rebreather mask when doing serious sanding. My nose goes crazy if I don't. But I'm allergic to about anything that grows, so....
Yeah, same here Randy. I can't even mow my own lawn without needing two days recovery from the sneeze attack. I have to take a heavy duty steroid shot just to be able to function outside so I can work.
I've tried all the masks. Yes, they do help the allergy problem some, but they're so uncomfortable and cumbersome. That also sucks the fun right out of model building. I was able to get this far on the plane in the winter when there was much less other allergens flying around. Once February hits, I just can't handle one more thing to sneeze from.
Wayne, if you mean the Allegra D pills, I've tried them. Does nothing.
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Clint,
Nope, not the Allegra D. The ones I'm talking about are sold under Wal-Mart's "Equate" brand name, they are called Allergy D, 12 hour.
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It's been a while, but I want to get this done for VSC 2017.
'Bout ready for primer.
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Clint and others have you thought about a down draft sanding table? I think Windy shows one in one of his videos. I have the parts to make one but haven't got around to it. Now where I get a Round To It badge? H^^
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Looks good, Clint. It looks good.
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I have Bob's Lapiones Nats winning Sabre sitting in my cellar.
Great job on the build. Are you going to copy original paint scheme.
Jose Modesto
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I have Bob's Lapiones Nats winning Sabre sitting in my cellar.
Great job on the build. Are you going to copy original paint scheme.
Jose Modesto
For the most part, yes. There's a lot of small decal lettering on the original that I probably won't bother with.
You could do me a favor and measure the "stars & bars" on the wing and fuse. Otherwise I'll have to estimate their size based on the old photos.
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Can it wait a week. I will be in NYC next week with access to the model.
Jose Modesto
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Can it wait a week. I will be in NYC next week with access to the model.
Jose Modesto
Absolutely. At my pace it'll be a while before I get that far. Thanks in advance.
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Anything new here Clint?
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I guess a couple years off models is enough of a break. Guess I should start with a finish on this plane.
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What's the latest on the Sabre Clint?
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What's the latest on the Sabre Clint?
Just have to paint it.
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Cool, can we have a look?
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Cool, can we have a look?
Absolutely. Just as soon as there's something to look at.
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And when might that be?
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Heck, I'd actually like to get a good look before the paint goes on, always interesting to check out a nice build.
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Heck, I'd actually like to get a good look before the paint goes on, always interesting to check out a nice build.
It's been primed a couple of times. Lots of sanding to do on this one.
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It's been primed a couple of times. Lots of sanding to do on this one.
Still sanding Clint? S?P ;D
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Still sanding Clint? S?P ;D
Yes, and had to rebuild a few things that just weren't coming out right. Summer business slowed me down on it and right now I'm recovering from some surgery, but I'm thinking some color will be on it come spring.
I've lost some close focus in my eyes the last couple years so I'm just not seeing wood surface very well.
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Are there still Model Aero Clubs in your town ? .
Closest club to me is the Woodland/Davis Aeromodlers, about an hour away. In my town, I'm a lone wolf.
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I know the feeling. I'm the lone ranger where I live, too. There are some guys an hour away, but that's it.
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I know the feeling. I'm the lone ranger where I live, too. There are some guys an hour away, but that's it.
Same here, and if I haul a-- nonstop our club field is a 1:45 drive north (one way) from my driveway, up I-35 and all the way through Minneapolis. That drive is a great motivation killer.
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Maybe the three of us should just move closer to each other and start our own club. How ‘bout Idaho? H^^
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Ok, just a quick one...
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Very cool! y1
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If youre having Eye Trouble , surely theres somebody in the neigbourhood , district , or STATE that can give you a bit of a hand . ! ?
Just Found This .
(https://outerzone.co.uk/images/_thumbs/models/8076.jpg)
Bob Lampione did a big Pattermaster Based SABRE too , later . Think theres a picture or two on the Flying Lines site .
Are there still Model Aero Clubs in your town ? .
The big Sabre was a Shark 45. I was there, he told me.
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The big Sabre was a Shark 45. I was there, he told me.
I think you're right, but the Sabre in that pic is the original United based model.
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Artical onim in ther latest Muddel Aviation .
http://www.modelaviationdigital.com/modelaviation/april_2019/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1473427#articleId1473427
Wiv a kolor Pitcha .
(http://images-cdn.dashdigital.com/modelaviation/april_2019/data/articles/img/098.jpg)
H^^
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Got basecoat white on it this morning. Hoping to start silver color coats this afternoon.
Edit: I was pretty heavy handed on the gun with the white. May wait a day or so on the silver.
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Lookin' good Clint, really enjoying watching the progress, please keep the pics coming! ;D
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Finally got some time to get silver paint on it. Now I just have to do all the crazy graphics.
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Finally got some time to get silver paint on it. Now I just have to do all the crazy graphics.
Way cool, looks great!
I see you're using the blue masking and vinyl striping tapes, both are great and I use them a ton. I know you know your game, but if you haven't tried the yellow Frogtape find some and give it a try too, it's EXCELLENT stuff. You can kind of see through it which is handy in certain situations and it leaves a perfect edge on your paint lines. I usually find mine at the local Sherwin Williams store.
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Way cool, looks great!
I see you're using the blue masking and vinyl striping tapes, both are great and I use them a ton. I know you know your game, but if you haven't tried the yellow Frogtape find some and give it a try too, it's EXCELLENT stuff. You can kind of see through it which is handy in certain situations and it leaves a perfect edge on your paint lines. I usually find mine at the local Sherwin Williams store.
I'll check it out. There is a Sherwin Williams store fairly close by and I need more tape anyway.
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I'll check it out. There is a Sherwin Williams store fairly close by and I need more tape anyway.
Don't waste your money on the green Frogtape though, it's crap for our purposes.
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The Frog tape (the yellow stuff) is at Lowes and Ace. I have not checked at Home Depot.
Good stuff. Leaves a clean edge, paint does not seep beneath it, and it can be left on the surface for extended periods without leaving residue.
Keith
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Don't waste your money on the green Frogtape though, it's crap for our purposes.
No, I won't. Already tried the green and was not impressed.
The Frog tape (the yellow stuff) is at Lowes and Ace. I have not checked at Home Depot.
Good stuff. Leaves a clean edge, paint does not seep beneath it, and it can be left on the surface for extended periods without leaving residue.
Keith
Thank you Keith. That's what we're looking for.
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I use the 3M fine line masking tape quite a bit. The blue with orange print is best for a very fine line.
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I use the 3M fine line masking tape quite a bit. The blue with orange print is best for a very fine line.
Randy,
By 3M fine line do you mean their blue vinyl stuff? If so I also use that a lot, always keeping the various widths in my "inventory". I use the 3M blue masking with the orange print a ton too, in all widths.
For paint lines though, unless it's a task that requires my using the fine line vinyl, I always use the yellow Frogtape anymore. It's become my new favorite, even over the blue/orange masking. It seems slightly thinner (maybe?) than the blue/orange tape and I feel like it leaves an even better edge. The tackiness is also pretty much ideal, all in all it's very user friendly.
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Sneak peek.
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Get those stencils yet? #^
No, and it's pissing me off. Waiting on the stencil checks for the Chipmunk tail, also.
However, doesn't really matter now. It's been over 100 deg here so don't have time to use them anyway. ''
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So, do we have to send out a "heavy" to go get those stencils? mw~
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So, do we have to send out a "heavy" to go get those stencils? mw~
Nah. He’s working on them. I went by his sign shop the other day.
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Nah. He’s working on them. I went by his sign shop the other day.
Did you explain to him that the whole world is out here waiting to see your progress? :##
Anxious to see more on this one!
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Been quite some time here, what's the latest Clint?
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Been quite some time here, what's the latest Clint?
The latest is I’m just getting back into models after the passing of my dad, then my wife, and selling of my business.
This project got dropped like a hot stone. However, I picked it up the other day only to discover a couple things haven’t survived the passing of time just sitting on a bench. Both elevators have warped and I’m making new ones now. I’m no longer going to bother with the 1/8” lettering that was on the original. Just going to do the color scheme and clear it. The covering never got as drum tight as I like it to be, but it’s ok for flying. Maybe I hit it with some high shrink clear and see what happens.
Hard to believe started this about 8 years ago.
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Wow, very sorry to hear about the "real life" stuff Clint, hope you're doing better and it's great to see you back here.
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Thanks guys. Feels good to be back in the shop. Of course I had to spend a day cleaning and organizing but it’s good to go. I need to get busy. LOTS of airplanes to build!
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Like I mentioned, the elevators had warped a bit so I opted to make some new ones.
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Playing with image resizing to get them on here.
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Playing with image resizing to get them on here. Trying to find the optimal posting size.
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More playing with the resizer. The plan hanging on the wall is Randy Smith’s Evolution.
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How's it going on this one Clint?
My painting masks shipped today so I’ll get the letters/numbers on it then clear coats.
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Actually Bob built three F-86 Sabre Jets. The one Clint is reprising was the first one, and I watched Bob fly it at every local contest in 1969, and at the Nats. He won every meet he entered that year with the F-86, and he called his shot before the contest year began. He declared even before he flew the Sabre for the first time that he was going to win the Nats that year. Amazing!
Bob followed up with a larger version of the Sabre that was built around a Shark 45 wing. It had a Fox 59 for power and it did not live up to Bob's expectations, but he still finished fourth at the Nats with that ship.
Bob's third Sabre was built around 1972, and it was again a 35-size ship. When Bob took that plane to Flushing Meadow park to test fly it, Gene Schaffer was also there testing his third Stunt Machine. Gene's was having a lot of trouble getting the Stunt Machine to trim properly and - as he was prone to do - just started a wingover on one flight and decided to just not pull out. The Stunt Machine hit the asphalt dead vertical at speed and the engine was catapulted into the air. It landed right on Bob's new Sabre! Fortunately there was minimal damage, but Bob was furious. He had to make a new flap for that plane, and I don't recall seeing it fly at any contests after that. It may have, as my memory is a bit fuzzy after 51 years... I do remember that the third Sabre was just flawless in build quality and finish; just like all of Bob's airplanes!
Later - Bob Hunt
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Actually Bob built three F-86 Sabre Jets. The one Clint is reprising was the first one, and I watched Bob fly it at every local contest in 1969, and at the Nats. He won every meet he entered that year with the F-86, and he called his shot before the contest year began. He declared even before he flew the Sabre for the first time that he was going to win the Nats that year. Amazing!
Bob followed up with a larger version of the Sabre that was built around a Shark 45 wing. It had a Fox 59 for power and it did not live up to Bob's expectations, but he still finished fourth at the Nats with that ship.
Bob's third Sabre was built around 1972, and it was again a 35-size ship. When Bob took that plane to Flushing Meadow park to test fly it, Gene Schaffer was also there testing his third Stunt Machine. Gene's was having a lot of trouble getting the Stunt Machine to trim properly and - as he was prone to do - just started a wingover on one flight and decided to just not pull out. The Stunt Machine hit the asphalt dead vertical at speed and the engine was catapulted into the air. It landing right on Bob's new Sabre! Fortunately there was minimal damage, but Bob was furious. He had to make a new flap for that plane, and I don't recall seeing it fly at any contests after that. It may have, as my memory is a bit fuzzy after 51 years... I do remember that the third Sabre was just flawless in build quality and finish; just like all of Bob's airplanes!
Later - Bob Hunt
I have one of Walter Umland's kits for the Sabre stashed away . The second one using a Shark.45 wing gets me curious. Is that the model in the bottom picture? I have never run a Fox .59 so not sure of what the power is like on that one. I'm thinking that maybe some better power in the nose might help out in that department?? Any idea of ot was the long shaft or short shaft? I have a couple of the short shaft engines, but I would lean toward ST G-.51 or ST.60.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Hi Dan:
Yup, the Fox 59 (not sure if it was long shaft or short...) was anemic to be sure. That airplane did not see too much service, but he did also fly it at one team selection with just so-so results. He retired not too long after that for many years.
I would think that a PA 61 side or rear would be good for that plane. You know that I would electrify it in a heartbeat with a BadAss 3515-710 or 580 motor and a 6S Li Poly or Li Ion battery and an active timer system. That would be killer. I think the airframe was perfectly good, the power not so much. But, it was certainly beautiful!
Bob
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Hi Dan:
Yup, the Fox 59 (not sure if it was long shaft or short...) was anemic to be sure. That airplane did not see too much service, but he did also fly it at one team selection with just so-so results. He retired not too long after that for many years.
I would think that a PA 61 side or rear would be good for that plane. You know that I would electrify it in a heartbeat with a BadAss 3515-710 or 580 motor and a 6S Li Poly or Li Ion battery and an active timer system. That would be killer. I think the airframe was perfectly good, the power not so much. But, it was certainly beautiful!
Bob
It's been a while since I have read the article, but if I'm remembering correctly, Larry Scarinzi designed the Blue Angel around the Fox.59, did he not? It was a typical story where he lost a model a couple of months before the NATS and needed a new stunt model in a hurry. Steve Smith has Walt Brownell's electric version of the Blue Angel and as I look at it sitting on the ground and in the air, I just can't imagine a .59 in it. Most others I have seen have a .46 of some flavor in them, and the airfoil isn't the thickest I have ever seen either. But I love the look of the airplane and it's biggest attraction is I wouldn't have to come up with a paint scheme!! I can remember seeing the Blue Angels fly the Grumman F-11 Tiger and it's still my favorite BA aircraft. I don't think I have ever been around a Fox.59 to see or hear one run. I have a couple but just never had the proper project for one. Comparing the BA to that third version on the Sabre, the Sabre does look pretty big. Like the late, great Walt Mooney said, "So many airplanes and so little time!."
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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It's been a while since I have read the article, but if I'm remembering correctly, Larry Scarinzi designed the Blue Angel around the Fox.59, did he not? It was a typical story where he lost a model a couple of months before the NATS and needed a new stunt model in a hurry. Steve Smith has Walt Brownell's electric version of the Blue Angel and as I look at it sitting on the ground and in the air, I just can't imagine a .59 in it. Most others I have seen have a .46 of some flavor in them, and the airfoil isn't the thickest I have ever seen either. But I love the look of the airplane and it's biggest attraction is I wouldn't have to come up with a paint scheme!! I can remember seeing the Blue Angels fly the Grumman F-11 Tiger and it's still my favorite BA aircraft. I don't think I have ever been around a Fox.59 to see or hear one run. I have a couple but just never had the proper project for one. Comparing the BA to that third version on the Sabre, the Sabre does look pretty big. Like the late, great Walt Mooney said, "So many airplanes and so little time!."
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
You have to put the size and power selection into perspective. In 1964 the dominant motor was the Fox 35 and most planes were 50-52" spans. Here comes Larry with a .59 powered 56" plane. It looked so big next to everything else there. If the stories are true, I saw it's maiden flight and was quite impressed. I felt, all things considered he should have won. Best pattern IMHO at the time (I was a senior) was Mathis but best overall presentation was Larry. Navy judges did not agree with my assessment!
Ken
Fast forward to today and 56" would most likely be the smallest wingspan in the lineup and the .59 the smallest motor.
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So....what's the latest Clint? ;)
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Dan,
Charlie Reeves used to have a DeBolt Old Timer with a Fox 59 we saw quite a bit in the 90's, Stuntwagon? I recall it was loud and ran pretty steady, very Old Time! Randy Cuberly had a Blue Angel that was really nice and flew great with a blue LA 46 (went great with the paint scheme), I was sold on the LA after that.
Chris...
It's been a while since I have read the article, but if I'm remembering correctly, Larry Scarinzi designed the Blue Angel around the Fox.59, did he not? It was a typical story where he lost a model a couple of months before the NATS and needed a new stunt model in a hurry. Steve Smith has Walt Brownell's electric version of the Blue Angel and as I look at it sitting on the ground and in the air, I just can't imagine a .59 in it. Most others I have seen have a .46 of some flavor in them, and the airfoil isn't the thickest I have ever seen either. But I love the look of the airplane and it's biggest attraction is I wouldn't have to come up with a paint scheme!! I can remember seeing the Blue Angels fly the Grumman F-11 Tiger and it's still my favorite BA aircraft. I don't think I have ever been around a Fox.59 to see or hear one run. I have a couple but just never had the proper project for one. Comparing the BA to that third version on the Sabre, the Sabre does look pretty big. Like the late, great Walt Mooney said, "So many airplanes and so little time!."
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Dan,
Charlie Reeves used to have a DeBolt Old Timer with a Fox 59 we saw quite a bit in the 90's, Stuntwagon? I recall it was loud and ran pretty steady, very Old Time! Randy Cuberly had a Blue Angel that was really nice and flew great with a blue LA 46 (went great with the paint scheme), I was sold on the LA after that.
Chris...
Yes, I remember Charlie flying that and I think he had a long shaft engine in that. I have one of Allen Brickhaus' Stuntwagons in my basement and he powered that with a ST.46. I have a couple of the short shaft engines I think, but applying a muffler might be problematic. I would most likely use the LA.46 or maybe even ST.51 if I thought that was necessary. So many airplanes and so little time!! ( A Walt Mooney quote")
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee