Author Topic: Dick Williams "Electra" (Read 5284 times)

wwwarbird · « **on:** February 23, 2010, 05:25:42 PM »

I'm thinking very seriously of building an RSM "Electra". I would really like to take a look at any and all available pics of the design that people would be able to post for my own reference and ideas.

Thanks in advance!

Leester · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2010, 06:41:00 PM »

Here's one, I don't know who's but it sure is a beauty.

Shultzie · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:59:01 PM »

Dick Williams...Is this the same Dick Williams our beloved Nats coffee King on such a hot summa's day?

wwwarbird · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2010, 05:13:34 PM »

I'm not sure Shultzie but I was hoping you'd catch this thread, you must have something on the Electra in the archives...

(And thanks for the pic Leester)

John Miller · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2010, 12:31:51 PM »

Yep, that looks like the man Shultze.

I really loved my Electras, the first one weighed 41 oz's and used an OS .35S. It was one of the best planes I've ever had. The second weighed in at 45oz's, and was powered with a McCoy .40 RH that I got from Tom Lay. Awsome set up with a 9X6 Tornado 3 blade prop.

RandySmith · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2010, 04:56:46 PM »

Quote from: John Miller on February 25, 2010, 12:31:51 PM

Yep, that looks like the man Shultze.

I really loved my Electras, the first one weighed 41 oz's and used an OS .35S. It was one of the best planes I've ever had. The second weighed in at 45oz's, and was powered with a McCoy .40 RH that I got from Tom Lay. Awsome set up with a 9X6 Tornado 3 blade prop.

John

Did you have the over under leadouts in yours? If so how did you like them?

Randy

John Miller · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2010, 06:53:43 PM »

I did, and they worked out pretty good. Bart explained the need to have the right line exiting the top, but I can't recall whether it should be the up or down line. I'm thinking it was the down line, but I'm not sure. He also showed me how to make the over unders adjustable.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2010, 12:46:50 PM »

Quote from: John Miller on February 25, 2010, 12:31:51 PM

Yep, that looks like the man Shultze.

I really loved my Electras, the first one weighed 41 oz's and used an OS .35S. It was one of the best planes I've ever had. The second weighed in at 45oz's, and was powered with a McCoy .40 RH that I got from Tom Lay. Awsome set up with a 9X6 Tornado 3 blade prop.

McCoy 40 RH and a 9x6 Grish 3-blader is definietely California Classic power! Question: I recall someone saying that the Tempest used the Electra wing -izzitso???

John Miller · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2010, 04:51:53 PM »

Absolutly true Dennis. Bart was mentored by Dick Williams back then. He built at least one Electra, might have been two of them, and campaigned them under Dicks tutelege.

Bart once told me, and showed me the original drawing of the Tempest. He woke up oin the middle of the night, and drew the new fuselage shape. He used the familiar wing, stab, and elevator from the Electra. There is some very minor differences in the tips.

When I drew up the Cad plans, it was a lot easier because of the parts it had in common with the Electra.

I maintain that had the Electra not gone missing on the way to Kiev, it would have been much more popular, and recognizable than it is today.

Shultzie · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2010, 05:29:36 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on February 24, 2010, 05:13:34 PM

I'm not sure Shultzie but I was hoping you'd catch this thread, you must have something on the Electra in the archives...

(And thanks for the pic Leester)

Unfortunately I don't have a shot of his Electra...but while you mention it.....Here is a photo from the 68 Nats that I couldn't ID the flyer or the model...

( Although the name is "PLAYMATE" somehow to me...the model looks like a mix of that Electra shown in the photo above..and a Kenhi Cougar?
However Jerry Worth's Electra 35X also included the fuselage sub dorsal like his beautiful Mirage 3 and later adopted "borrowed" for my Avenger 35 & 40 Series models. (A great way to add side area and stiffness without adding extra weight behind the CG.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2010, 05:58:28 PM »

Shultzie:
If I had to guess I'd say the "Playmate" is by Jean Pailet. Looks like an inverted engine version of his Zephyr. Cannot make out the AMA number tho.. Agree its a good looking bird.

You know I love Jerry W's Mirage 2 taildragger, but never really noticed how alike the Electra & Mirage trike were.

Shultzie · « **Reply #11 on:** February 27, 2010, 07:38:30 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on February 27, 2010, 05:58:28 PM

Shultzie:
If I had to guess I'd say the "Playmate" is by Jean Pailet. Looks like an inverted engine version of his Zephyr. Cannot make out the AMA number tho.. Agree its a god looking bird.

You know I love Jerry W's Mirage 2 taildragger, but never really noticed how alike the Electra & Mirage trike were.

Agreed...that has to be Pailet's model and it does look like a dead ring-a-ding...of his Zephyr.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2010, 05:50:00 PM »

Yep, I think you nailed it on the other design Dennis. That is a good looking model, sort of a streamlined looking "Peacemaker" to me.

Thanks for looking Shultzie!

WhittleN · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2010, 08:13:18 AM »

Just thought you guys would like to see Dick William's Electra about '66. Picture is actually Gordan Delaney 's; he gave it to me because of the Jim Mayfield Adonis in the back ground. The picture represents the 3 power players on the west coast in the mid 60's. Dick William's' Electra, Barton Klapinski's Tempest and Jim Mayfield's Adonis.

Gordan Delaney · « **Reply #14 on:** March 27, 2010, 12:10:20 PM »

Randy,
The over under works great. I also used them on my Two Much Twin. The top lead out is the up line. Johns gets confused at times. Maybe all the time.

Neville Legg · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2010, 06:07:03 AM »

Was there ever a drawing for the playmate by Jean Pailet? I have the plan of the Zephyr, but would prefer to mount the motor inverted!

Cheers Neville

John Miller · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2010, 09:06:41 AM »

Neville

It appears to me that the Playmate is basically a Zephyr with the engine inverted. Good looking model for sure.

Neville Legg · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2010, 01:47:40 PM »

John, you would think that was the case! but the playmate looks bigger? Might be my imagination as I'm only using the Mk1 eyeball, and comparing the photos! 'waddya' think?

Cheers Neville

John Leidle · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2010, 09:21:30 PM »

hi Wayne... I just finished an Electra i've flown it & it's very nice . Period. Mine is about 630 square inches, 47 ounces, Magnum .53.
John

wwwarbird · « **Reply #19 on:** December 12, 2010, 11:19:26 PM »

Cool! Can we see it? Mine hasn't made it out of the box yet.

John Leidle · « **Reply #20 on:** December 13, 2010, 04:49:41 PM »

Wayne, I'll need to use some time getting it up here ,,or maybe better I'll send it to John Thompson's Flying Lines website...

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #21 on:** December 13, 2010, 08:55:43 PM »

Leidle...email them to me, as they come from the camera (digital assumed!), and I'll run them through IrfanView and email them back ready to post...or post them for you, if you want.

I like the sound of 47 oz and 630 Sq. Inches with the Magnum .53! When can I see it fly?

Steve

John Leidle · « **Reply #22 on:** December 14, 2010, 11:04:44 AM »

Thanks for offering Steve

, I wanted to ask but didnt have the nerve to. I flew it yesterday at Arlington with hogs blowing across the road & it didnt fly as well as a 3 MPH wind. Still I like it it has a bit of triming to do. I'll get some photos to you soon . I so busy with retirement I have trouble finding time to do anything.
John

john e. holliday · « **Reply #23 on:** December 15, 2010, 09:54:03 AM »

Retirement is like work. You have to make a schedule. I think all of us have that problem the first few months. Hope your Electra works well for you.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #24 on:** December 15, 2010, 12:01:31 PM »

>>Retirement is like work.<<

I hope someday to find out, but it isn't looking good. I figure I'll be able to retire about the time they plant me. Sigh... 70 seems an awfully long way off. It's not, but it seems that way.

John Leidle · « **Reply #25 on:** December 17, 2010, 05:46:44 AM »

Steve, I see how to post pictures now. I never was able on the other board ,over compression or something was too much for me.
john

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #26 on:** December 18, 2010, 02:08:18 PM »

JL sent me the pics of his Electra, after test flying in the "Pig Winds" at Arlington Airport. He couldn't find the cowling, but took the pictures anyway (probably because it wasn't raining at the moment!).

So, here they are. I already chastized John for the exposed aggregate concrete background...about as bad as a lush lawn...lots of kb's wasted showing stuff we care zero about, leaving less kb's for the plane. But they should be alright. I look forward to seeing John fly the new plane.

Steve

John Leidle · « **Reply #27 on:** December 18, 2010, 02:11:42 PM »

Thanks for putting this up for me Steve,,, a photographer I am not. Maybe I'll put a white sheet down to show the landing gear next time.
john

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #28 on:** December 18, 2010, 02:19:43 PM »

A white sheet or cheap plastic table cloth would be a good way to go. Don't let the Mrs. catch you with one of hers, however.

Steve

wwwarbird · « **Reply #29 on:** December 21, 2010, 10:11:31 PM »

Thanks for the pics guys. The departure from the typical Electra schemes makes it look like a whole different airplane, especially with the painted canopy. Looks great!

John Leidle · « **Reply #30 on:** December 22, 2010, 04:36:39 PM »

Hi Wayne, the plane was supposed to be silver W/red trim but when the paint was ordered I didnt know it would have an aqua tint to it. So being too cheap to reorder it is aqua ..The silver would have looked more like aluminum.
John

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #31 on:** December 29, 2010, 07:22:24 PM »

John, would you please explain the "aqua tint"? Was this the aluminum, or the clear? What brand? Etc.!

I had hoped to see it last Sunday, but you brought a set of plans and a big lump of aluminum...

Steve

John Leidle · « **Reply #32 on:** December 31, 2010, 06:58:38 PM »

Steve, let me get th info off the wb but Honda has a color called Prinite Silver or something the color chart looked silver but when I opened the can it was aqua I was disapointed,,let me look it up.
John

John Leidle · « **Reply #33 on:** January 01, 2011, 03:20:46 PM »

Steve, I ordered a 2007 Honda color.. " Flourite Silver" in the color chart it is silver , when you open the can it's aqua ..aqua metalic that is. I sprayed on clear overall . I added nothing to the color or clear & you can see the thing is not silver .

wwwarbird · « **Reply #34 on:** January 03, 2011, 03:13:08 PM »

I'd like to ask anyone who has built an Electra or Smoothie with a filled and finished clear plastic canopy to check out this post:

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=19965.0

Thank you.

Bill Little · « **Reply #35 on:** January 03, 2011, 11:01:45 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on January 03, 2011, 03:13:08 PM

I'd like to ask anyone who has built an Electra or Smoothie with a filled and finished clear plastic canopy to check out this post:

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=19965.0

Thank you.

hi Wayne,

I forgot to mention that I have built two Smoothies, a Super Ringmaster, and a Blue Bird in the past.

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #36 on:** January 07, 2011, 07:43:49 AM »

Hi Guys,
I have an Electra in the build queue. So any tips, mods or be careful of? I did intend to put a Super Tigre V60 in it, but am getting cold feet and thinking of an LA 46. Should I bite the bullet and go for the ST or would I be better putting it in a Shark (plans arrived yesterday)?

Regards,

Andrew.

Bill Little · « **Reply #37 on:** January 07, 2011, 07:52:31 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Tinsley on January 07, 2011, 07:43:49 AM

Hi Guys,
I have an Electra in the build queue. So any tips, mods or be careful of? I did intend to put a Super Tigre V60 in it, but am getting cold feet and thinking of an LA 46. Should I bite the bullet and go for the ST or would I be better putting it in a Shark (plans arrived yesterday)?

Regards,

Andrew.

Hi Andrew,

My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to use the .46LA in the Electra and the ST .60 in the Shark (McFarland Shark "45", correct?).

Big Bear

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #38 on:** January 07, 2011, 10:19:38 AM »

Hi Bill,
Think I will take your advice and use an LA46 for the Electra and save the ST60 for the Shark 45. I seem to remember somewhere, that the Shark and ST60 were better than the sum of the parts?

Regards,

Andrew.

Bill Little · « **Reply #39 on:** January 07, 2011, 10:21:42 AM »

Quote from: Andrew Tinsley on January 07, 2011, 10:19:38 AM

Hi Bill,
Think I will take your advice and use an LA46 for the Electra and save the ST60 for the Shark 45. I seem to remember somewhere, that the Shark and ST60 were better than the sum of the parts?

Regards,

Andrew.

Hi Andrew,

I have heard that the combo can give EXCELLENT results. Better available power than the original K&B or Veco .45's.

Bill

wwwarbird · « **Reply #40 on:** January 07, 2011, 09:25:02 PM »

I don't recall what the original powerplant was back in the day, Fox or McCoy .35 probably. Lighter engines either way. I do know that the guru's who built and competed with them say to shorten the nose accordingly if you plan to use anything heavier. Today, built light, a Brodak .40 would probably be perfect in this airplane.

Pretty hard to argue with Klapinski's results.

John Leidle · « **Reply #41 on:** January 07, 2011, 10:00:36 PM »

Hi Andrew,
As you can see I just built one of these things. As far as engine choice ,, my opinion is the .60 Tiger is too much for it in a few ways, it puts out more power than is useable ( did I say that?) in this plane, it will be too heavy as I believe Bart wrote someplace a 8 ounce engine is best ,and since it is a big bore you will need to have more re-enforcement in the nose . The added material in the nose will further add to nose heavyness. In mine I have a Magnum .53 it is 10.3 ounces ,,,the Tiger is going to be 12.3 or so plus the extra wood you might end up with 3 ounces in the nose more than I have AND I am a bit nose heavy . Then you add tail weight & presto your up over 50 ounces & climbing... if I were to do it over I'd look for something under 10 ounces,,, A Double Star .54 might be ideal.. I dont really know at this point. Stalker .51 for that matter. I feel it might be a teriffic plane but we shall see.
Are you starting anytime soon? Good Luck, John

John Miller · « **Reply #42 on:** January 08, 2011, 03:29:03 PM »

The Supre Tiger .60 is much more than needed, and the detrimental effects from such a large "shaking" engine, weight, balance, strength, and trim, may cause a lot more problems than one would want.

Back when Dick and Bart were flying the Electras, the first engines used were McCoy .35 RH's. Later, when they became available, they switched to the McCoy .40 RH's. With either engine, the prop of choice was the Grish 9x6 black 3 blade.

When I built my first one, I powered it with an OS .35S, with the same Grish 3 blade. It was a delightful flying plane, never giving me the feeling of being underpowered.

My second one was powered with a nice McCoy .40 I finally was able to get, (from T&L) again with the same Grish prop. The plane, though a bit heavier, still flew without effort, but also seemed to have more power in the manuevers.

Todays modern engines suited for stunt, I'd hesitate going larger than an LA .46.

Bill Little · « **Reply #43 on:** January 08, 2011, 06:42:22 PM »

Hi John,

I agree with your assessment! LOL!! While I really, really, can identify with Tim "the Tool Man", it is from other activities that I have been involved in that makes that connection.

It can be too easily overlooked that a huge engine will make pulling the plane through maneuvers ridiculously easy, the incidental problems that can occur, can easily spoil the planes "true essence". A happy medium I feel is necessary. I don't think anyone with an Electra will be shooting for the Wooley Cup. So keeping the original aspects that made the original model fly so well is paramount in my mind while trying to increase it's performance through modern powerplants. Bob Gialdini's treatise on the "Bar Bell Effect" jumps to mind when I think of putting an engine that is nearly twice the weight of the design's original in use. I'm just not convinced that the "extra wasted power" is of benefit.

Kinda like putting a 900HP cast iron Big Block Chebbie engine in a Vega. Straight line can be awesome, but going around a corner might be worse than pulling a 53' trailer! I like to be able to go fast AND turn! LOL!!

Big Bear

John Leidle · « **Reply #44 on:** January 09, 2011, 06:57:38 AM »

Hi Bill,
I first want to thank John Miller for introducing the Electra to us at the 1995 NW Regionals I liked it because it flew well ,was the right size & looked like an airplane instead of a " Thingy". When I was building this plane I was unsure what power was going to be adequet but the Magnum .53 is enough. And as I mentioned a shade heavy. In a perfect world bring it in at 44 ounces & a Stalker .51 & it would be better than mine. Also in a plane like this I have to take into account when choosing an engine sourse more than just the wing area. The hing,nose moments ,etc. I forgot with a Tiger .60 you would need a lagre tank too I mean a lot lager have you weighed a metal tank lately? I have & was stunned. So in my opinion an engine under 10 ounces is better for this plane .
The jury is still out .... John

Bill Little · « **Reply #45 on:** January 09, 2011, 09:34:23 AM »

Quote from: John Leidle on January 09, 2011, 06:57:38 AM

Hi Bill,
I first want to thank John Miller for introducing the Electra to us at the 1995 NW Regionals I liked it because it flew well ,was the right size & looked like an airplane instead of a " Thingy". When I was building this plane I was unsure what power was going to be adequet but the Magnum .53 is enough. And as I mentioned a shade heavy. In a perfect world bring it in at 44 ounces & a Stalker .51 & it would be better than mine. Also in a plane like this I have to take into account when choosing an engine sourse more than just the wing area. The hing,nose moments ,etc. I forgot with a Tiger .60 you would need a lagre tank too I mean a lot lager have you weighed a metal tank lately? I have & was stunned. So in my opinion an engine under 10 ounces is better for this plane .
The jury is still out .... John

Don't get me wrong, John, power upgrades do wonders for Classic designs. And I would not denigrate any one for any choice they make for their own equipment!

Bill