Author Topic: Color photo`s of Steve Wooley's COBRA (Read 5172 times)

Chad Hossack · « **on:** March 03, 2011, 01:13:23 PM »

Ever since I was a young boy of twelve, and I purchased some used copies of American Aircraft Modeler at our club auction, one model photographed in black and white in the February 1971 issue has held my imagination even till now.

That model is the late Steve Wooley`s Cobra.

So of course I want to own and build my own version of it, so I ordered and just received in the mail a Brodak short kit, along with plans, templates, canopy, and wire gear. I was very happy with Brodak`s fast service to Canada. They even shipped it USPS for me so I did not have to pay UPS's 40% brokerage fees up here.

Anyways, a search on here shows it is a popular subject with you all of course, but I could only find one color top profile photograph of the original model. It is over all light blue. That was a big surprise to me. I always thought of it as white all these years, and then lately seeing photos on here of his Argus (or a replica), I then pictured it a light green like it.

I just read, most likely on this forum, that Steve`s original Cobra might be in the AMA museum along with his Argus. No way I thought, after 43 years!!!???

So a quick call to the AMA put me in touch with Maria VanVreede of the museum.

She was kind of shocked as soon as she asked me who`s model I was looking for, because she just then finished taking many photo`s of Steve's Argus. So after talking to her, and paying a fee for photos of the Cobra, she explained the photos she has of it are not that good, and will re-shoot some new ones for me next week.

She also went on to explain the Cobra is in not that great of shape. I said I could see that by the one picture I had, that it looked like it had some rips in the covering at the top root of the wing by the fuselage fillet, and also had some other stains and tears.

But after over 40 years I said, that was to be expected. She also stated that the covering has faded from a light blue, to a more green. I asked her for one of the photos to be of where the covering is less faded, and was out of direct light exposure. She said it still looks more blue underneath.

Before I hung up, she e-mailed me a color photo of the Cobra, that was given to the AMA at the time of donation. This is another bonus.

When I receive my photos, I will post some of them on here, as I believe I can do, for reference for you all.

I don`t know if I will start my Cobra this winter, or wait till next. But if I do, I will do a complete build with photo`s on here for fun to share.

Pictured below is the top profile photo I found on the internet. The next photo is the color one I received today from Maria at the AMA, and the last two are from my February 1971 issue of American Aircraft Modeler.

Chad

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2011, 02:11:48 PM »

In the above thread I stated that I thought Steve Wooley's Argus was green because of photo`s I have seen of the original or some ones reproduction.

But in this photo, taken from a PDF file by the AMA on Steve Wooley, the Argus appears blue also. But is it most likely a play on light or the old film? Or is it too finished in blue? I should have asked Maria when I had the chance........

It is obvious to me now that he painted different versions of the Argus different colors.

Maybe some photos of the bubble canopy Cobra or Cobra`s that I read about on here that Steve built will pop up someday and we can see how they were finished.

But it is sure a way cool photo of Steve with Jimmy Stewart the legendary actor! Imagine having that honor of being photographed with him? He is just about my all time favorite actor, along with Gary Cooper.

Mr Stewart made many aviation themed movies in his life, was a decorated WW2 pilot with many combat missions over hostile territory, and even built model planes as a youngster. I imagine his love of airplanes and models attracted him to where this photo was taken.

Chad.

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2011, 02:24:58 PM »

I found the photos of the Argus I had seen on here. It is one built by Mr Bill Little which it is pictured below. He states it is the 58 version and he used a piece of covering to match the color from Steve's original model.

Now how cool is that?

Dave Adamisin · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2011, 08:21:58 PM »

Unless Steve built more than one the Cobra was Green. He finished the plane in Big's basement. It's a wonderful story that begins with "one day the doorbell rang" and finishes as a bittersweet tale of a wonderful young man that left us way too early.

Bill Little · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2011, 08:43:27 PM »

HI Chad,

The Cobra, as Dave stated, was the same color as the Argus (he was there when it was built! LOL!!). I had the young gentleman take the Cobra out of the "Hobby Shop/Museum" rafters for pictures when I was there in 2004 for the World's.

I was very fortunate to obtain a piece of the original silkspan which had the three trim colors on it. A dark green, a semi darkish red, and gold. When I built the Argus I had the local paint supplier match the paint with his computer so that it could be as close as possible to the original. I had it made up in Dupont Chroma Base paint. The cans are still packed away in the basement somewhere.

From other hobbies, I have found that old pictures are notoriously terrible many times when it comes to showing the true colors.

Bill

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2011, 07:00:14 AM »

Mr Adamisin and Mr Little,
thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my post and clearing up my mistake on the color of Steve`s original Cobra. I`m glad it is the same minty-snake green as the Argus rather than the baby blue it falsely appears to be in the old photos.

This is all just great modeling history to learn about and remember. I am so glad to have found this site and be able to participate in it. I hope to hear some time from you both more memories about the Cobra and Steve. I sure would like to hear more of that story about the door bell ringing, and how the Cobra came to be...............

I always thought to from the article in the b & w photos that it had a black painted canopy which was not true also as can be seen in the two photos above. So I will use the canopy provided in the kit, which will look way better.

I will post some of the photos of the Cobra on here when I receive them from the AMA. I really wanted them, and paid 30 dollars for them to have for future reference, so I think paying that much entitles me to be able to share a few low resolution copies with you all on here if you are interested.

When I complete my other airplane projects, and the Cobra hits my bench, I doubt I will not paint it exactly like Steve`s original, just similar, but it is so nice to see finally how it appears in color, even though the plane might be in poor shape.

Chad

Bill Little · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2011, 08:59:33 AM »

Hi Chad,

I'm just lucky enough to have met a lot of the really nice fellows who were the movers and shakers of the event during that time (and since).

People like Dave's Dad, "BIG" Art, are treasures. Maybe one of the Adamisin gang will elaborate on the "80 grit sanding block/Steve's plane episode".........

Steve was a great designer, builder, flier, he flew in the World Championships and judged there, too. Outside of model airplanes he was a race car driver among his other talents.

Looking forward to the Cobra pictures from the AMA.

Bill

Dave Adamisin · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2011, 03:11:34 PM »

I saved the pic locally and messed with the color a bit. This would be in the ballpark,,,

Bill Little · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2011, 09:16:01 PM »

Thanks, Dave. Should be the same color as my Argus Chad posted above.

I should have checked when I had the paint made, I wondered if Steve had used an automotive lacquer color, or if he mixed it himself. Looks a lot like it could have been one of the mid-'50s pastel car colors. Sorta like the popular 1957 Bel Air Sea Foam Green, IIRC.

Bill

Dave Adamisin · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2011, 11:24:30 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on March 04, 2011, 09:16:01 PM

Thanks, Dave. Should be the same color as my Argus Chad posted above.

I should have checked when I had the paint made, I wondered if Steve had used an automotive lacquer color, or if he mixed it himself. Looks a lot like it could have been one of the mid-'50s pastel car colors. Sorta like the popular 1957 Bel Air Sea Foam Green, IIRC.

Bill

I agree. I don't remember what type the paint was but you're probably right. Dad helped Steve so he might remember. The canopy in the picture of the Cobra looks like it has deteriorated a bit. It was deep red candy clear. One of the black and whites shows how dark it was when it was new.. Steve used model car candy spray (on the inside) to tint the canopy. When he was done, dad showed him how much easier it was using Rit fabric dye..... Steve rolled his eyes and laughed.

Bill Little · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2011, 02:21:38 AM »

Pretty sure that when I took the pictures at Muncie the canopy was missing. I'll have to remember the deep red tinting for the canopy when I get there on my Cobra build, thanks!

Steve really designed a couple pretty planes there, in my eye.

Dave Adamisin · « **Reply #11 on:** March 06, 2011, 07:49:59 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on March 05, 2011, 02:21:38 AM

Pretty sure that when I took the pictures at Muncie the canopy was missing. I'll have to remember the deep red tinting for the canopy when I get there on my Cobra build, thanks!

Steve really designed a couple pretty planes there, in my eye.

I agree. I love the tips on the wing and stab.. Also the way the rudder blends with the fuse.... Very pretty curve...

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:15:32 AM »

Thanks very much for all the fantastic interesting information guys. This is really appreciated very much.

I have boxes of black RIT dye put away for canopies but no red! I`ll have to stop in the drug store next time by and pick up a box...............

Dave Adamisin · « **Reply #13 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:29:17 AM »

Quick update on the paint type. I talked to Big this morning and he said that Steve used Aero Gloss. Auto paint is an obvious choice today. Cool. On the canopy color the deep in the red wasn't in shade but depth. Thinks deep cherry. Steve was cheatin on the instruments and didn't want anyone to be able to see that.... There were no faces on the instruments. Bezels yes, faces no. Just white faces....

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2011, 04:05:46 PM »

I just opened up my Brodak short kit and plans for the Cobra tonight. And I noticed right away some discrepancies on the plans compared to the original ones published in the February 1971 edition of American Aircraft Modeler as I have stared at them off and on for years.

The CG has been moved to the front of the spar, instead of the middle of the spar. And a optional lead out position is shown along with the original one. Tail wheel mounting has been changed, along with wheel sizes ect.

This kind of peeves me off a bit. I expect when I order plans for the Cobra, I expected them to be faithful as practically possible to the original design and plan, not modified or changed by some ones idea of a "improvement". I did not want a Super Cobra, a Cobra 2000, A Brodak Cobra version, or whatever. Just Steve Wooley`s Cobra. The Cobra design was the last in a stage of world winning contest designs by him. How can you improve on something that is such a big part of CL history? Did the print maker think his added changes were due to his bigger competition wins in the field? Or he just think that no one who would actually take the time to build the Cobra want to experience it how the designer intended it to be, but his "better" more modern version.

It is just like me ordering plans for Mr Adamisin`s brother`s design, the "Sweat Pea", and instead of receiving the original version with the V tail, it has a standard fin and stab because the fellow converting the plans to CAD thought of it as a "improvement".

I realized some methods of construction might have to be changed a bit due to CAD engineering and construction. But not as big as changes as the one who copied the original plans did.

Now I will have to take my magazine plans to the print shop, have them enlarged to scale, and compare to see what other discrepancies there are to the original allowing for some percentage of error for distortion.

I will get down off my soap box now,..........

....lol........and prepare to make some changes to my kit back to the original version that I thought I had ordered to pay homage to a contest winning classic, designed by a history making champion CL pilot.

Chad.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #15 on:** March 07, 2011, 04:14:02 PM »

If you want the original plans, got to the AMA Plans Service and look them up.

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #16 on:** March 07, 2011, 04:18:37 PM »

Thanks John. Great idea.
I have ordered plans from the AMA before, with great results.
This I will do!
Thanks again.
Chad.

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #17 on:** March 09, 2011, 04:31:42 PM »

I received my copies that Maria VanVreede of the AMA e-mailed to me today.

She asked me to make sure that firstly the above old color photograph I posted earlier (the one where it looks blue and is taken from the right wing tip) is credited to Mr Mike Eber.

Quote: For the 1967 Polaroid:
Steve Wooley’s Cobra in Dayton, OH, 1967. Source: National Model Aviation Museum Collection, Accession file 2001.69. Photograph provided by Mike Eber.

And that the following photographs she took (posted below), she asks that they not be published in print, but they can be shared on a on-line discussion group, and that I ask that they please not be re-posted(I assume just for your personal use only).

Quote: Steve Wooley’s Cobra on March 9, 2011. Source: National Model Aviation Museum Collection, donated by Steve Wooley, 2001.69.01.

I might ask for one more closer photo of the snake, as the glare makes the face difficult to see.

And was not this airplane in some one else`s care after Steve`s death and donated by them? Or was it actually donated by him before his death?

I hope you enjoy the photographs, and are useful for anyone who would like to build a replica some day also.

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #18 on:** March 09, 2011, 05:16:37 PM »

As I do not have much old stock vintage hardware, I asked my good friend who is a ignition engine collector to keep his eye out for a 2" inch Veco spinner for me. I have a 1" and 3/4", plus a 3 inch, but that is all.
He called me one day later and had me allready coming in the mail a NIB Veco 2" inch, and a longer version NIB 2" inch for just the cost of shipping. Perfect for my Cobra.

Now I will see if he can get me either the 1" and 7/8" slim Veco brand wheels shown on the original plans, or a pair of Perfect brand slim wheels to make my Cobra look period. I have some new Perfect brand slim style 1" inch wheels for the tail wheel.

My friend also has a collection of old store stock NIB Perfect brand fuel tanks that are mint. Can anyone recommend the proper tank size the Cobra most likely had?

Thanks, Chad.

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2011, 08:30:54 AM »

This morning I called the AMA museum again in Muncie to order a copy of the original plans that they have available from the old American Aircraft Modeler magazine ($17 plus shipping).

The fellow I was talking to said they just this morning hanged Steve`s original Cobra up on display for all museum attendees to see.

Is that not great or what!

I am hoping my talking to Maria VanVreede was the spark that reminded the AMA how important that model is, along with his Argus, that got it out on public display for every one to admire too.

Maybe someday I am hoping in a few years to make it down to Indiana, and visit the Cobra in the flesh, along with the rest of the AMA`s historic collection. That would be a very nice trip I am looking forward too.

Chad.

Dave Adamisin · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2011, 02:23:43 PM »

Chad. This thread has been fun. Thanks for sharing the pics and leading on this discussion. Steve has a special place in model plane history and many of our hearts. Good luck with your project.

Bill Little · « **Reply #21 on:** March 10, 2011, 02:44:30 PM »

Hi Chad,

Like Dave A. said, thanks for the thread!

As to tank size, I would *think* Steve used a 4 oz. one. Perfect didn't make a "square wedge" stunt tank that big, and unless Steve made his tank, I am pretty sure he used a Veco (T-21D??). Although the Veco tanks are long gone from production, all the latter day tank makers make that style today.

As to the Veco Streamline wheels, they were solid rubber whereas the Perfect ones were "balloon" type. The Perfects tended to deform slightly sometimes. Someone is making clones of the Veco "grasscutters" (for racing), but I am not sure who it is...

Big Bear

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #22 on:** March 10, 2011, 03:59:40 PM »

Most of us used the Veco wheels. (Not the Veco semi pneumatics). I have few sets of newones that I have locked up in a safe.

The "grass cutters" were made by K&B

Chad Hossack · « **Reply #23 on:** March 10, 2011, 05:02:57 PM »

Quote from: Tom Niebuhr on March 10, 2011, 03:59:40 PM

Most of us used the Veco wheels. (Not the Veco semi pneumatics). I have few sets of new ones that I have locked up in a safe.

The "grass cutters" were made by K&B

Well.............lmao ...........I`ll keep checking E-bay then, or maybe my collector friend will sniff me out a pair of Veco`s............don`t worry, your safe is safe!

If any one is working on a Cobra project, or has a older Cobra, please put up some pictures and your thoughts here on your machine to share with us.

Thanks..........Chad.

Bill Little · « **Reply #24 on:** March 10, 2011, 08:57:29 PM »

Quote from: Tom Niebuhr on March 10, 2011, 03:59:40 PM

Most of us used the Veco wheels. (Not the Veco semi pneumatics). I have few sets of newones that I have locked up in a safe.

The "grass cutters" were made by K&B

Hi Tom,

I thought K&B just kept producing the "Veco" line like they did with the tanks and some other Veco products..... ? Seem to be the exact same wheels. Solid, streamline, etc., so I thought they were the same. I have a few sets of Veco, but only one set of the K&B, IIRC. 1 7/8". I also have a few pairs of the old Eagle (??) brand that had wooden hubs but the same design tire.

Bill

Dave Adamisin · « **Reply #25 on:** March 11, 2011, 02:09:13 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on March 10, 2011, 02:44:30 PM

Hi Chad,

Like Dave A. said, thanks for the thread!

As to tank size, I would *think* Steve used a 4 oz. one. Perfect didn't make a "square wedge" stunt tank that big, and unless Steve made his tank, I am pretty sure he used a Veco (T-21D??). Although the Veco tanks are long gone from production, all the latter day tank makers make that style today.

As to the Veco Streamline wheels, they were solid rubber whereas the Perfect ones were "balloon" type. The Perfects tended to deform slightly sometimes. Someone is making clones of the Veco "grasscutters" (for racing), but I am not sure who it is...

Big Bear

Yep, 21d if it was 4oz and 21c if it was 3.5,,,, We used a lot of 3.5's. I wouldn't today because it's too easy to measure how much you put in.

Bill Little · « **Reply #26 on:** March 11, 2011, 02:54:22 PM »

Quote from: Dave Adamisin on March 11, 2011, 02:09:13 PM

Yep, 21d if it was 4oz and 21c if it was 3.5,,,, We used a lot of 3.5's. I wouldn't today because it's too easy to measure how much you put in.

I think the change to more fuel (than 3 1/2oz) was needed when the pattern was changed to require two laps between all maneuvers, right? It seems almost impossible to get the whole deal in now with 3 1/2 oz. and 10% nitro (or more) and a "vintage" .35.

Big Bear

Dave Adamisin · « **Reply #27 on:** March 12, 2011, 09:57:28 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on March 11, 2011, 02:54:22 PM

I think the change to more fuel (than 3 1/2oz) was needed when the pattern was changed to require two laps between all maneuvers, right? It seems almost impossible to get the whole deal in now with 3 1/2 oz. and 10% nitro (or more) and a "vintage" .35.

Big Bear

I think you are absolutely correct. I was only speaking in contemporary terms. We had some planes that needed a little white gas to make the jump...

Robertc · « **Reply #28 on:** March 13, 2011, 01:23:24 PM »

Veco T-21C is 3 oz, T-21D is 3.5oz and T-21E is 4oz.

Bill Little · « **Reply #29 on:** March 13, 2011, 01:49:17 PM »

Quote from: Robertc on March 13, 2011, 01:23:24 PM

Veco T-21C is 3 oz, T-21D is 3.5oz and T-21E is 4oz.

Thanks, Robert! Memory of all those "letters" in failing.

Bill

Dave Adamisin · « **Reply #30 on:** March 13, 2011, 04:38:04 PM »

Quote from: Robertc on March 13, 2011, 01:23:24 PM

Veco T-21C is 3 oz, T-21D is 3.5oz and T-21E is 4oz.

Thanks. We switched to the World Engines 4oz because it was narrower and allowed for skinnier designs.....

Dennis Saydak · « **Reply #31 on:** March 28, 2011, 01:18:55 PM »

That'll be the day I paint a model pukey green!

Oh wait, I've already done that (1963 Argus).

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #32 on:** March 28, 2011, 04:02:20 PM »

As to the various Cobra versions, I believe the Brodak version was originally from a short kit by Walter Umland-----

If true, I do not know where Walter got his data. Since I consider the Cobra about the prettiest CLPA model ever, I would like to know how close the Brodak/Umland version is.

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #33 on:** March 28, 2011, 05:51:43 PM »

Hey Ty,

I have two of the short kits---got one of them from Brodak, the other from Louis Rankin and also a full kit from Louis.

Do you, or anybody, know where Walter got the data from?

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #34 on:** March 28, 2011, 08:40:13 PM »

FWIW, we've had three Cobras flying in recent years, here in the PNW.

Paul Walker's was first. He told me that the controls were exactly per the plans (I assume the magazine plans, or copy of them), even though he was sure it wouldn't work. Paul could make it fly a good pattern, but it was not easy. There was LOTS of elevator travel and not much flap travel, from what I recall. The controls were very quick. And he had fuel shortage problems at the one contest I saw it fly at. Black with gold trim...lovely!

Randy Powell built one from WU's kit. He had it long enough to paint it twice and rebuild it once. I liked the first paint job better...yallow with the "Cobra Gurl" decal. HOT! Power was a PA .40 ultra merlin or somethin'.

Scott Riese built one. Not sure if it was a WU kit or Brodak kit or scratch. He's flown it for years, and got on the podium many times with it. It started life with a B.40 and still flies, after switching to a .40LA. Don't know anything about the control ratios...but if you intend to fly yours, I'd call somebody!

Steve

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #35 on:** March 29, 2011, 06:36:31 AM »

Steve,
Thanks for the heads up------my olde brain seems to remember some earlier comments about the fast controls, and I, too, liked Randy's Cobra, version 1.0 and 1.1.......

Ty,
Thanks----I'll try to remember to ask him about it.

Bill Little · « **Reply #36 on:** March 29, 2011, 10:56:35 AM »

Hi Jim,

I would expect to run into the situation with the "original" control set up with Veco control horns and a three inch bellcrank. Quicker than what we use today, of course, and less "mechanical advantage" than the tall horns and 4" bellcrank. I still have a P-47 (Parrott version) I built many years ago with the "small" system. It takes a flight or two to get back use to, but it is what we all flew for a long time. I believe it makes the plane feel more like a really "small" one after using the tall horns/big bellcranks for a good while now.

I had to have Tom Morris make up a "custom" system for the Airon (will be called out on the plans) since a lot of modification would have been necessary to make the back end of the model allow long horns, etc,. We used the "tallest" ratios that would "fit" and leave the original dimensions of the fuselage somewhat intact. The horns are still "taller" than the old Veco system, and a 3 1/2" BC is used. It really gets tiny back there.

Bill

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #37 on:** April 20, 2011, 10:07:30 AM »

Somehow I've missed this thread but was glad to have stumbled on it today. Like many who've commented, the Argus and Cobra had a great influence on my "life in stunt"! I've been blessed (cursed?) with a sort of semi-photographic memory of things like airplane pictures and all of the ones in this thread save the brand new ones AMA supplied (restrictions on sharing?

?? Gee, thanks, AMA) bring back memories and thoughts I hadn't though of for decades.

For instance, I've always wanted to know why the "shaft" of the red arrow paint trim on the belly had about a three inch gap right about the main spar? Did he have to do a B/C transplant? Did a leadout loop around the B/C arm and need to be unlooped? Were the controls too sensitive or vice versa?

Who are the two guys helping Steve with the inverted start in that picture where he appears to be draining out a flood or something with the nose and outboard wing tilted down? What were all the trophies for in the picture posed on a sheet and was that picture taken on the stairs of somebody famous' house (like Big Art and Betty's place) (I told you, some of my memories were a little wierd!)?

The picture that shows the front end and cowl did two things for me. First, it made me wonder what the obvious vertical seam just above the needle valve was? Did he have to cut the nose off for something? Why did the seam stay so obvious?

Second, that picture is probably responsible for whatever notoriety I've gained for making "sexy" cowlings on my later airplanes. Especially in an event where the norm is so...well..."normal", it made it clear to me that one of the best ways to make an airplane stand out from the pack was to do something "special" with that otherwise non/dysfunctional item that exists primarily to hide funny looking one cylinder motors. Along with well tailored color schemes, the cowl, the canopy, the wing tips and the rudder are what give airplanes we all think of as special their panache. The cowl, IMHO, provides the greatest leeway in terms of being unique.

At any rate, many thanks for the threads and good luck with everyone's Cobras and Argi. You can't pick better looking subjects.

Ted Fancher

ooops edit: One pic I'd never seen was the one with Jimmy Stewart. Now that's cool! Closest any my airplanes came to fame was the picture of my red, white and blue Citation V parked in front of the Thunderbirds' red, white and blue F-16s following my flights at the airshow at Edward's AFB many, many years ago. Although it was published in Model Aviation that year I've no idea where the picture or negative is now. Alas.

RogerGreene · « **Reply #38 on:** June 14, 2011, 08:49:35 AM »

I have looked in my stack of magiznes and I don't have the one with Steve Wooley's Cobra, I do have the plans. Can some put the article on? I believe it was Feb 71 Model Aviation?

Thanks,

Roger