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Author Topic: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian  (Read 2025 times)

Offline Tom Weedon

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Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« on: October 11, 2007, 01:42:46 PM »
Back in 1955 when I was 15 years old, I built a 53" Berkeley Grumman Guardian. I attempted to fly it several times, but my brother eventually broke it. I lost contact with that plane but it holds close memories for me. I still have a photo with me holding it. I recently bought a set of plans for it and I'm thinking of starting on it again, but I was wondering if anyone has had experience flying it. It was big, and it did not have flaps, so I expect it could end up over weight and not very good in stunt. So before I get started on the plane, maybe there is someone that can give me some insight on it's proven performance.

If it's really bad, maybe I won't build it after all. I'll just look at the picture and reminisce of the good old days (smiling).  y1

Tom Weedon
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Offline Ron King

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 02:37:49 PM »
Tom,

I remember that kit as a Carrier / Scale kit - not a stunt plane, but I don't remember things so well any more.  n~ n~

Since you have the plans, check to see if it has a symmetrical airfoil. For some reason, I remember these were semi-symmetrical for the Carrier and Scale events.

By the time I came of age in the early sixties, the Berkeley kits had been overshadowed by the J. Roberts kits in Carrier.

Ron
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 02:54:45 PM »
Actually *that* Guardian was billed as a stunt plane with no provisions that I know of for carrier, it was a large nonflapped stunt design. 

A couple years ago, or so, there was quite a bit of discussion on one of the boards about it.  Consensus was to build it light and power it well. 

It compares, somewhat to Walt Musciano's "Stunting Vickers Wellesly".  Another plane from about the same era with a fairly high aspect ration wing and no flaps.  Both planes are very similar in size, etc., and could do decent.  Especially if you like to trim for "elevator" turn! LL~ LL~
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2007, 02:59:47 PM »
The Sterling Guardian is a completely different design than the Berkely Guardian.  Sterling as stated - exclusively for scale carrier, probably the most popular design of its time.  The Berkely Guardian was designed by Bob Elliot (of "Black Tiger/Warhawk fame), 53" span, no flaps but still considered a stunt design.  I have never seen one but it would be a real attention getter at any Classic event.  Plans available from Tom Dixon 8). For what it's worth, the only full scale Guardian I have ever seen is (was?) at Aero Union, the fire bomber operator at Chico Airport.  Not flyable unfortunately.
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Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 03:03:30 PM »
There was a Berkley Guardian Stunter. As I remember it had short moments, a thin symetrical airfoil, and wing span about 50" (I think).  Probably not the best, but I have never seen one fly.

About 20 years ago. many of the Garden State Circle Burners, made profile versions of the airplane and used throttles. They flew formation flights for both fun and demonstrations. The airplanes were painted in navy colors, and not all the very dark Corsair blue.

They had a ball with these airplanes. The late Augie Buffalano of the GSCB, gave me some cut up rough drawings of the modified airplane.

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures.

Bill Werwage also designed a full stunter to look like the Guardian, but I don't think he ever competed with the airplane.
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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 06:53:34 PM »
There is an ebay listing for the plans, tried to copy the images here for a "Hanger Review"...
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Willis Swindell

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 07:40:02 PM »
I built this Guardian about 15 years ago from plans I got from Tom Dixon. It still flies great with a Veco 29.
Willis

Offline Tom Weedon

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2007, 03:29:02 AM »
The Berkeley Grumman Guardian was not designed for carrier. It was too big and too slow. It had a symetrical airfoil, about 10% thick, tappered at the tips, and a fat fuse with a large round metal cowl. Thanks for the reminder about Bob Elliot designing the plane. That is correct. It is considered a "semi-scale" airplane like Bob's Black Tiger which I had as a teen and as I now have another one.  My question is; "How well does it fly?"  "Is it any good at Stunt?"

Even though I have fond memories of it from my childhood, I don't want to build it, if it is a dud.  ???
Thanks for any info you might have.

Tom Weedon
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Willis Swindell

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 06:23:53 AM »
Tom
I changed the construction on my guardian instead of strip planking I used molded 1/16 inch balsa which produced a very light airplane I’ll have to weigh it for the exact weight. You are right the original guardian weighed a ton like all Berkley kits.
Willis y1

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2007, 08:26:10 AM »
I have the "Berkeley Gaurdian Kit" down stairs in the the dungeun that I picked up at a swap several years ago.  Looking at the posted plan, it looks like the fuselage construction is changed.  Will have to pull the kit and check again.  Meriwether flew one as a carrier plane in the 60's with a I beleive was an Anderson two speed.  They cut the wing span to meet the rules.  I beat him at Swope Park because I could get a lower low speed.  No hanging in those days.  But, I say if you like the plane, build it and fly it.  Unless you want something to beat Billy W., Bob H., Ted F., and Paul W.  Remember Classic is supposed to be fun.  DOC Holliday
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2007, 11:33:01 AM »
As a sidelight, Bill Werwage did a Guardian that looked interesting. Saw it in the Bob Hunt video about Bill's various planes. Very cool.
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2007, 09:57:02 AM »
As a sidelight, Bill Werwage did a Guardian that looked interesting. Saw it in the Bob Hunt video about Bill's various planes. Very cool.

AS has been mentioned, Billy did build a Guardian Stunter, using Al Rabe's theories, very scale dimensions.  Can't remember the original power, but he did mention that he flew it later with a ST 60 and it "flew ok".
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2007, 11:11:16 PM »
One of the guys I flew with over in Cougarville (aka Pullman, WA) had a Berkley Grumman Guardian. It was pretty neat, to a 14 y.o. kid. None of us flew real well, no adults around that flew, but it did amazing takeoffs and landings. I remember it doing loops and wingovers. I think squares would be a challenge, but it would be a great sport model and demonstration model. Molded shells would be the way to do it. I had a kit, but sold it for a huge profit. A rare occurance for me.  y1 Steve

Edit: Added the picture from Pullman. This was New Years Eve, and it was ZERO Deg. F. when we got home, all on foot. Nobody had a car, tho a couple of the guys had licenses. The guy with the Guardian was a Sophmore, so may have been 16. It had a McCoy Super Stunt .36 (not a great engine). A Brodak .40 would be good, or an RM .40.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 09:30:11 PM by Steve Helmick »
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Berkeley's Grumman Guardian
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2007, 09:33:25 PM »
Hmmmm. I thought the mod/update to the last post would boost it up the list, but didn't. So this is just a 'bump'.
 HB~> Ouch!  Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.


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