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Author Topic: "New" Veco Tom Tom  (Read 4621 times)

Offline Bill Little

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"New" Veco Tom Tom
« on: July 04, 2015, 03:20:06 PM »
I recently received a Tom Tom kit by Aero using the Veco dies, etc..  This a very different looking "Tom Tom' from the original.  More jet styled and looks like a built up version of the Tomahawk II.  Is anyone knowledgeable about when this kits was released?  I am guess 1965-66 ??  Same size wing as the original Tom Tom, just different tips.  Fuselage has a bubble canopy.  Great looking candidate for an OS .20FP, .25LA or a Veco BB .19.

Any help?
Thanks!
Bill
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Offline Bill Morell

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2015, 04:18:10 PM »
Bill, I believe it is much newer than that. Aero got the dies after Dumas.
Bill Morell
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 05:04:13 PM »
Bill, I believe it is much newer than that. Aero got the dies after Dumas.

Hi Bill,

Yes, but I "believe" it was actually released by Veco before they closed up shop.  No new dies were made that I know of so these had to have come from Veco.  Like the Tomahawk II....  I think there was also a "Little Tom Tom" styled like the kit I have.

Thanks!
Bill
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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 06:16:25 PM »
It is my understanding also that the bubble canopy version was by Dumas. Veco only kitted the original version with the smoothie look. I could be wrong though. I have one of the original style Tom Toms with an Enya 19 IV on it that fly's great.
Jim Kraft

Offline Bill Morell

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 06:46:33 PM »
I have seen both versions in Veco kit boxes. I never liked  the bubble canopy as much as the original. I have always thought Brodak would kit this but not so far.
Bill Morell
It wasn't that you could and others couldn't, its that you did and others didn't.
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Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 06:41:14 AM »
I built one this winter from a Veco kit. It's just like the one I built in 1969. Then it had an Enya 19 and 52' lines. Flew good. New one has Brodak .25 and 62' .012's. Nice. Still sorting it out.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2021, 08:57:41 PM »
Well Mike Pratt wanted a picture of the Veco Tom Tom that built from a kit and flew at the NATS.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2021, 09:51:50 PM »
Mr. Holliday,

I'm glad for the pictures! Wow, that is really sharp.

I have a clone kit of this plane. It has (by the plansheet) split LE/TE held together by the bellcrank platform, butt-glued 90* center-wing joints, center sheeting and full-width spars. I'm half-tempted to make the LE/TE joints scarf joints instead, because I'm afraid the wing will fold.

Is yours one continuous wing, or two halves joined? Am I worrying too much about nothing?

Thanks advance!

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2021, 12:05:09 PM »
Years ago I built a kit in which the wing was two halves and then joined.   Using supplied jigs it looked good until I flew it.  Made my turn for the reverse wing over and watched as it flew by me just above head level.  Needless to say the jig was not accurate.  All my wings unless foam are one piece wings. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2021, 01:00:11 PM »
Well Mike Pratt wanted a picture of the Veco Tom Tom that built from a kit and flew at the NATS.

My Ol Friend Doc comes through!!!
Thatís what Iím looking for, exactly!!!  Why is it so hard to find anything on this kit?  It looks like it was going to fall between the cracks of Stunt History, thank God you have it.  Now Doc, I hate to ask, but what have you got left about this version?  Anything is helpful?   That a very nice looking model Doc, I hope it flew well for you.  What was powered it and weight?

Thank Doc,
Mikey

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2021, 06:19:36 PM »
As I think I related in one of the PM's the plans are some where up in the rafters in one of about two dozen boxes of plans.  Need some one who can stand on a ladder.  On mine it is powered with a Fox .29 Stunt.  I do need to fly it more as it was a better plane than I am a pilot.  Also used center of plane to center of handle .015 cable with E-Z Just small handle or Big Irons version.  Need to get some new scales as mine have gone whacko. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2021, 11:14:44 AM »
As I think I related in one of the PM's the plans are some where up in the rafters in one of about two dozen boxes of plans.  Need some one who can stand on a ladder.  On mine it is powered with a Fox .29 Stunt.  I do need to fly it more as it was a better plane than I am a pilot.  Also used center of plane to center of handle .015 cable with E-Z Just small handle or Big Irons version.  Need to get some new scales as mine have gone whacko. D>K

Doc,
This is not important having you climb a ladder at all, rather have you safe Ol Friend.  Lets do a bunch of measurements to get this started, just measure the Stab & elevators to start with, fin rudder, rudder and dorsal fin, even a simple tracing around the outside will work.  Then we can start on the fuselage when you have time. 

Later Buddy,
Mikey

Offline BillP

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2021, 07:24:07 AM »
You probably only need the fuse and stab tracings. I'm 99% sure the original profile Tomahawk wing is the same one used on the full fuse TomTom. Maybe someone with both can confirm but they share the same sq area, wingspan and plan view...and the later jet style profile Tomahawk is the same wing with different wing tips. Brodak sells the plans/kit and outerzone plans.
 
PM sent.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 07:54:09 AM by BillP »
Bill P.

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2021, 09:50:24 AM »
You probably only need the fuse and stab tracings. I'm 99;% sure the original profile Tomahawk wing is the same one used on the full fuse TomTom. Maybe someone with both can confirm but they share the same sq area, wingspan and plan view...and the later jet style profile Tomahawk is the same wing with different wing tips. Brodak sells the plans/kit and outerzone plans.
 
PM sent.

Hi Bill,
You may be right, it might be the same wing as a Tomahawk, that would figure knowing there changes to the design over the years.  There are only a few drawings that I need to confirm the drawings that I have made already, tail group (stab & elevators, fin & rudder, dorsal fin, airfoil).  Then I can finish my drawings and go from there.

Thanks,
Mikey

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2021, 10:02:52 PM »
This is what I have:

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2021, 10:03:31 PM »
And more:

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2021, 11:32:09 AM »
Mikey/Dan McEntee,
Is this the one you seek?

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2021, 12:58:39 PM »
Mikey/Dan McEntee,
Is this the one you seek?

     Yes, that would be the correct one I think. Let's let Mikey chime in here also. I was at my storage locker today and came across to old Veco kit boxes of the original and thought I may have hit the jackpot! But it turns out there was just scrap balsa stored in the boxes like we all used to do. These belonged to a club member here.  One is the very early Tom Tom kit with the colorful full length box art, and the other is the next generation checker board Veco box. I do have a Dumas kit of the second version of the Tom Tom and if it is determined that the wing is the same but with different tips, I can make it available for tracing parts and such.

    Is your kit complete? Are part like ribs and formers  shown on the plans? If so I wouldn't mind having a copy of those plans.

    Thanks a lot and HAPPY EASTER!!
     Dan McEntee
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Offline BillP

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2021, 02:01:23 PM »
That CLC kit has the original VECO plans which are isometric and not much help other than showing original construction. The VECO plans shows two internal spars and the CLC construction is top and bottom spars with notched TE & LE. The CLC wing I have is lightly built and flexes easily so I added shear webs. Got the kit decades ago and just started it late last yr. It's still on the building table. I think the difference between the original Tomahawk and TomTom is profile and full fuse. Everything else looks the same. One thing I've found with the full fuse is it's about 1/8"-3/16" too narrow for most tanks. I widened the fwd bulkheads a tad and still had go carve the engine bearers to fit a 29S Greenhead.

Correction...The leading edge isn't notched. It's 1/2" square set in the rib V. I had a senior moment.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 03:41:21 PM by BillP »
Bill P.

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2021, 05:44:30 PM »
Mikey, Dan,
I bought this kit from Mike Hazel's stash...then I carefully removed the parts and traced them. I also scanned the plans, as they looked like the original plans.

I bought a Magnum .25 from the same stash for this particular plane.  I'll be watching my bearers width since this plane seems to build narrow by design. I may also check engine weight to see if I need to shorten the nose...I think the Magnum is an ounce heavier than the .29 called for.

I need to review those scans. If nothing else, I do plan to rescan the entire kit before the weekend ends. You both will have parts copies emailed as PDFs. I have tomorrow off, so my weekend officially ends tomorrow night. H^^

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2021, 06:41:53 AM »
This is what I have:

40" span, 338 squares.  A .15 to .19 should do the job.
Paul Smith

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2021, 09:15:36 AM »
Jim,
I just saw this, Yeppie!!! that the one Iím looking for.  I have a few questions, did it come with the full size or the Veco plan?  Now Iím pumped and excited maybe I can finish this lol.  If you can send the tracings that you made is all I think I need.  I still canít believe that know one has full size drawings of this model but Iím going to change  that and make my drawing to full size, to make it as accurate as possible.

Thanks Jim,
Mikey

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2021, 09:47:21 AM »
Mikey, Dan,
I bought this kit from Mike Hazel's stash...then I carefully removed the parts and traced them. I also scanned the plans, as they looked like the original plans.

I bought a Magnum .25 from the same stash for this particular plane.  I'll be watching my bearers width since this plane seems to build narrow by design. I may also check engine weight to see if I need to shorten the nose...I think the Magnum is an ounce heavier than the .29 called for.

I need to review those scans. If nothing else, I do plan to rescan the entire kit before the weekend ends. You both will have parts copies emailed as PDFs. I have tomorrow off, so my weekend officially ends tomorrow night. H^^

    Thanks Jim, I'll be looking forward to seeing those. I can compare those to the later Dumas version of the Tom Tom and see if the wing is the same, then all Mikey has to do is draw up the tip design f it is the same. At least now I am getting my Tom Toms straight! Now just gotta work on my Tomahawks!!
 .
  Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
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Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2021, 07:09:05 PM »
Sorry guys...long hard weekend. I'll have this to you tomorrow about an hour after work. I promise, vintage scout's honor.

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2021, 05:35:58 PM »
Jim,
Not a problem, I know things get in the way, been there done that lol.

Later,
Mikey

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2021, 08:08:52 PM »
Mikey,
I think I left out one of the scansheets including a piece of the fuselage and wing rib. Can you double check what I sent? I think it was around the end of January.

Dan,
I forwarded what I sent others. How did it look?

I'll have the bulkheads and a rib in a bit...I just cut the bulkheads out since I think the first scan left one bulkhead completely out, and one too close to call "within printable" area.

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2021, 09:07:10 PM »
Jim,
I just saw this, Yeppie!!! that the one Iím looking for.  I have a few questions, did it come with the full size or the Veco plan?  Now Iím pumped and excited maybe I can finish this lol.  If you can send the tracings that you made is all I think I need.  I still canít believe that know one has full size drawings of this model but Iím going to change  that and make my drawing to full size, to make it as accurate as possible.

Veco plansheet with isometric view. The plansheet also has a diagram of the fuselage side. I think the fuselage image is full-size.
All patterns were made by tracing the kit parts full-size...including bulkheads tonight. My son is using the PC, so I can't scan the last bits tonight.

As BillP mentioned, the Tomahawk listed.on Outerzone seems to have the same wing as the Tom Tom of this thread. I did a really fast look between my PDFs and the Tomahawk plan earlier today.

Dan asked earlier if this is a complete kit. Yes, Sir, it is! Including LG wire, large bellcrank, and other notable parts in a complete kit...except of course, engine/tank.

Offline BillP

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2021, 04:28:26 AM »
Note the CLC kit has a single 1/2" thick solid plank fuse top from the cockpit fwd to the aft engine bulkhead. The VECO plans show a sheeted fuse top over additional bulkheads with a center top stringer for the joint.
Bill P.

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2021, 05:46:54 PM »
Gents,
My scans are good. Here is the original CLC plan under the scanned/printed copy along with the kit fuselage. I do need to scan a plate with a rib and 1/2 fuselage (print it and the other fuselage half and tape together).
All of the parts scans are done so as to be printed on legal size paper (8.5x14), so the complete set gets you the all the parts, and then the full-size plans sheet (which can be printed in Tile-mode on what ever paper you may have). While it is time consuming to.graft the plansheet together, at least you will have a copy.

I'm glad to do all I can to help others build this one...except ship it out. USPS still owes me a missing package. Feel free to PM for a set of scans.

Ciao for now!

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2021, 10:55:59 PM »
Thank You Jim,
Your the best and think you for your help getting this done.  Iíll send you a copy of my plans when they are finished.

Thank again,
Mikey
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 01:05:49 PM by MikeyPratt »

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2021, 07:42:36 PM »
We now have two threads for this kit...here and in Classifieds. Which to update first? I guess this one.
I have these scans split between home and work, so I owe this thread a sheet that shows the LE/TE. I hope to update with the "missing data" tomorrow PM.

The overall plansheet/build instructions/isometric view is 3 MB. Too big for here. PM if you want it emailed.

Feel free to reach me for anything related...I haven't built this one yet.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 08:21:30 PM by 944_Jim »

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2021, 04:34:58 PM »
Gentlemen,
Except for loose parts in the kit (bellcrank, elevator joiner, etc), this should be the last installment. Note one picture represents a 1/2 span trailing edge. The other is the center of the span showing the center two ribs close together.
The trailing edge is 36" long, and the two end rib notches are approximately 1/8" into the TE from the end (see right edge by the 20" mark), and all rib slots are cut into the TE to a depth of 5/32"...this gives quite the surface area for the ends of the ribs to glue to.
Rib slot spacing is on 2" centers from the ends to ALMOST the middle of the span. The four center ribs are spaced a little differently, that is the two center ribs are 1-19/32" apart, and the adjacent ribs to either side are 1" from the center ribs. I'm sure the TE was machine cut on a mechanical jig...so spacing isn't very true across the TE (speed and volume of cuts over accuracy). I hope the words convey what I mean, but here are pictures:

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2021, 10:44:05 AM »
Gentlemen,
Except for loose parts in the kit (bellcrank, elevator joiner, etc), this should be the last installment. Note one picture represents a 1/2 span trailing edge. The other is the center of the span showing the center two ribs close together.
The trailing edge is 36" long, and the two end rib notches are approximately 1/8" into the TE from the end (see right edge by the 20" mark), and all rib slots are cut into the TE to a depth of 5/32"...this gives quite the surface area for the ends of the ribs to glue to.
Rib slot spacing is on 2" centers from the ends to ALMOST the middle of the span. The four center ribs are spaced a little differently, that is the two center ribs are 1-19/32" apart, and the adjacent ribs to either side are 1" from the center ribs. I'm sure the TE was machine cut on a mechanical jig...so spacing isn't very true across the TE (speed and volume of cuts over accuracy). I hope the words convey what I mean, but here are pictures:

Jim,
Thank you for providing the the photos of the trailing and the other parts needed.  Can I ask a favor and get you to send me a drawing of the airfoil?  I want to compare the airfoils between the stock kit and the RICHARDS version of the Tom Tom.  I donít think there is not much difference, but I want to make sure before I have the parts cut. Itís greatly appreciated.

Later,
Mikey 

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2021, 02:05:12 PM »
Jim,
Thank you for providing the the photos of the trailing and the other parts needed.  Can I ask a favor and get you to send me a drawing of the airfoil?  I want to compare the airfoils between the stock kit and the RICHARDS version of the Tom Tom.  I donít think there is not much difference, but I want to make sure before I have the parts cut. Itís greatly appreciated.

Later,
Mikey

    Hey Mike;
  Check his patterns he has posted on reply #31. The small parts drawing. He has the rib tracing in that bunch,

    Type at you later,
     Dan
 
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Offline 944_Jim

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Re: "New" Veco Tom Tom
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2021, 03:58:36 PM »
And don't forget the CLC kit came with a stack of same-size ribs and instructions to reduce the ones that get balsa-sheeted in the middle of the wing.


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