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Author Topic: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??  (Read 4435 times)

Offline Skip Chernoff

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"Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« on: February 15, 2017, 08:31:46 AM »
I'm going to build a Shark 45 from an RSM kit. I'm going to install E-flight electric retracts . If I build it with tricycle gear I'd plan on mounting the ST60 upright. Should I elect to go as a tail dragger the engine would be inverted as per plans. With either choice....would I still be able to fly it in "Classic"? How strict are the rules on these types of "Mods"....Thanks,PhillySkip

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 09:21:33 AM »
Technically there is no rule to dissallow anything
HOWEVER there are clear indications of what is accepted, and allowable
From my perspective both changes you are proposing are outside the spirit of the event....
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 10:27:33 AM »
If you are a member of PAMPA go to the site.  You can use the same link as the Stunt News at the top of this forum.  click on resources,  then PAMPA rules for Classic.  Either print it off or read on line.  All or most of the rules for the various classes are there.  Some interpretations of the rules will depend on where you compete in this great land of ours. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Trostle

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 10:37:38 AM »
Couple of problems here.

The PAMPA rules for Classic Stunt include:

"It is expected that contestant will comply with the spirit of the event and enter only qualifying models which as closely as possible accurately reflect the aerodynamic layout and appearance of the original.    .... removable landing gear which allow the entrant to adapt to the contest site and conditions are allowable.  This would not allow the substitution of a tricycle landing gear for a conventional gear, or vice versa."

The Shark has a tricycle landing gear - period.  Unless there is proof that somebody flew a Shark prior to 1970 with a conventional gear, a Shark equipped with such a conventional landing gear should not be allowed to fly in the Classic event.  Furthermore, unless there is proof that somebody flew a Shark with a retractable landing gear prior to 1970, a Shark equipped with such a retractable landing gear should not be allowed to fly in the Classic event.  Using a retracting gear in a Shark may or may not improve its performance, but the "appearance of the original" in the air with the gear retracted would definitely be changed.  (You might find an ED who thinks differently, but he would not be acting in "the spirit of the event".

Now, for another matter.  As mentioned above, a retracting gear on the Shark may or may not improve its performance.  There would definitely be some differences in the manner the model is trimmed to perform the stunt pattern.  Would it look neat?  Definitely!  There should be no reason not to use a retractable nose wheel if you want to go ahead to build a Shark (or any model with a tricycle gear).  There are light duty electric retract systems that has a nose wheel that rotates the strut as it retracts so that the wheel would be flat against the tank.  These are available as a system from some of the RTF RC manufacturers.  Besides, these systems are much lighter than anything from E-Flight and should be strong enough to work with a comparatively lighter model (like the Shark) than the RC models the E-Flight systems are built for.

The RSM Shark kit is a good kit.  If you really want to build the Shark, fine.  But if you want to build a really neat looking Classic ship with retracts, you might want to look at Harold Price's Crusader.  It has a conventional gear with retracts.  There is a photo somewhere of such a Crusader at last year's VSC.

Keith

Offline tom brightbill

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 10:53:03 AM »
One other option might be that if you do build a Shark with retracts, with the wheels in the same locations as static gear would be, not retracting them during an official contest flight ought to be acceptable. You could retract in non-official flights. Just a thought--.
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Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 04:18:45 PM »
Again, thanks all for your input here. I apologize for the two running threads on this topic. I'm just so enthusiastic I can't control myself (lol).
Keith I like the idea of the 90 degree rotating retract for the nose gear. Makes sense.I'll try to find the pic of the Crusader,but really love the look of the Shark.
Doc, I'm not a Pampa member and need to do that immediately.
I keep reading about the vibration of the ST60 and that might be a consideration  regarding the nose gear and these light weight electric gear. I've got a lot to think about here.Thanks guys for everything....PhillySkip

Offline Trostle

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 05:32:27 PM »

(Clip)
Keith I like the idea of the 90 degree rotating retract for the nose gear. Makes sense.I'll try to find the pic of the Crusader,but really love the look of the Shark.

 (Clip)


I hope this helps in finding the Corsair retracting gear I mentioned.  Go to

https://www.motionrc.com/products/rochobby-f2g-main-lg-system-rohkf112

You can do a search for "Motion RC" and get a web site that has a lot of different RTF models  They have a lot of listings for different manufacturers.  The one you want to start with is "RocHobby".  They have a number of "medium size" RTF scale models that seem to perform well, including several versions of the Corsair, P-51 and many others, all with retracting gear and various parts are available for all of them including different retracts.  You might also look at some of the Corsairs from other manufacturers  on the Motion RC website.  There are some larger ones with maybe larger retract systems, though I would think the ones they list above for the Corsair should be adequate for our CL stunt ships.  The servo is built in, so just plug in to the receiver and a battery and bingo - retracts at about 1 oz each.

I have been looking for the Price Crusader that Joe Dill had at VSC last year.  He did not fly it, but on the insistence of a lot of people, he brought it out so we could see it.  Joe is a master builder.  But I cannot find a picture of it.

Hope this helps.

Keith


Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 05:43:57 PM »
Keith thanks much for taking the trouble to help me out. I'll go to that link now....PhillySkip

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 05:49:31 PM »
Keith I just checked out the rotating retracts in the link....the reviews (except for a couple) were not so good. Let me see what Eflight has......Thanks,Skip

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 12:51:17 AM »


http://www.airplanesandrockets.com/magazines/control-line-capers-september-october-1963-american-modeler.htm

Saw the plan on google pics the other day . Not Now though . Maybe was hipocket or the other one , Im Thinking .

Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2017, 03:30:04 AM »
Matt that was a great link. Interesting reading for sure....PhillySkip

Offline EddyR

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Re: "Allowable Mods to "Classic" Planes??
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2017, 06:35:22 AM »
Matt   I use to attend the contest mentioned in that article at Ithaca NY. It was held in a park on Lake Cayuga on rt96. Article mentions wind and that was a windy spot.
I can not remember the Crusader in the picture.
Ed
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field


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