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Author Topic: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22  (Read 4840 times)

Offline Avaiojet

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Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« on: June 11, 2018, 08:49:30 PM »
I was so excited to see this vintage Aristo Craft kit of the Grumman F3F sell for 180.00, and change, on ebay, so I pulled my framed R/C model out of the archives and took a look.

Vacuum the dust off and did a re-examine. I have two of these in different stages of construction. I think the other is a vintage Pilot kit? Cowling is the only difference, one is metal and the other is plastic.

I'm deciding IC or Electric?

Retracts are kinda holding up the build. I'm going to work on that.

Yes, that's sheeting on the fuselage.  ;D

CB


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Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 02:07:49 PM »
Hi Charles, long time no talk.  I have to say that the F3F Gulfhawk is my all time favourite airplane.  That chubby fuse and huge cowl, combined with that stunning paint job.  How can it get better?  I believe the retyracts are the same as the F4F, are they not?  At least close, and if so, others have done them.  Maybe someone in the scale community could chime in here with an example.
Glenn Reach
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Online Paul Smith

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2018, 09:39:01 AM »
If you are able to make that landing gear work you will not get enough points to be worth your trouble.

But you will be justified in taking pride in your achievement.
Paul Smith

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2018, 09:49:35 AM »
If you are able to make that landing gear work you will not get enough points to be worth your trouble.

But you will be justified in taking pride in your achievement.

Paul,

I don't take pride in anything I do, my mindset doesn't work that way.

However, deserving and receiving 'credit' for one's efforts and contributions is entirely different.

Your correct about the gear.

I would like to have working retractable gear because of the challenge.

Realistically, it's a pointless effort.

Just another thing that can brake.

CB
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2018, 11:44:03 AM »
Hi Charles, long time no talk.  I have to say that the F3F Gulfhawk is my all time favourite airplane.  That chubby fuse and huge cowl, combined with that stunning paint job.  How can it get better?  I believe the retyracts are the same as the F4F, are they not?  At least close, and if so, others have done them.  Maybe someone in the scale community could chime in here with an example.

Glen,

The F4F gear is different but operates just about the same.

Paul is correct and the effort cancels out the return. I cannot take that task on by myself.

I need it handed to me.  LL~ LL~ LL~

I could fudge something that looks semi-scale but isn't.

The weight will be needed up front.

CB
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2018, 08:59:57 AM »
Started looking for all the scale paperwork I have on the G-22. I have a photo pack someplace also.

The G-22 is the F3F-1.

Anyone interested in this aircraft, reading about Al Williams is a great start.

Interesting guy.

Here's the G-22.



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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2018, 01:47:32 PM »
If you are able to make that landing gear work you will not get enough points to be worth your trouble.

But you will be justified in taking pride in your achievement.

I was told if the aircraft I'm modeling has retracts, I'll loose points if the model doesn't have retracts also?
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2018, 04:52:03 PM »
I was told if the aircraft I'm modeling has retracts, I'll loose points if the model doesn't have retracts also?

   It is best to read and understand the rules of the event that you are building the model for. Then you would not have to rely on "what you have been told" and will know for sure. That is much better than building an airplane and then asking, "OK now what??" In your case, it won't make any difference anyway.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2018, 06:23:10 PM »
I am actually a step closer to having retract gear.

I started these mark up parts years ago hoping to having them casted.

I scaled the drawings to the scale of the model I'm building.

I also have the same gear leg parts drawn in CAD.

I should have them machined instead of casted.



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Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2018, 07:46:08 AM »
Glen,

The F4F gear is different but operates just about the same.

Paul is correct and the effort cancels out the return. I cannot take that task on by myself.

I need it handed to me.  LL~ LL~ LL~

I could fudge something that looks semi-scale but isn't.

The weight will be needed up front.

CB
Now I don't know what category of scale you are going for, but unless Im mistaken in Sport Scale and Fun Scale the judges cannot be within 15' of the plane when judging.  This will allow you some leeway with the landing gear as far as accuracy goes, so something made for a F4F, as long as it fit, might get you by.  In flight the only criteria would be that it functioned right.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Gary
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2018, 09:31:08 AM »
Now I don't know what category of scale you are going for, but unless Im mistaken in Sport Scale and Fun Scale the judges cannot be within 15' of the plane when judging.  This will allow you some leeway with the landing gear as far as accuracy goes, so something made for a F4F, as long as it fit, might get you by.  In flight the only criteria would be that it functioned right.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Gary

The F4F is really different.

I do have already what I need to build the gear, getting it to operate is something else.

Even I have brain limitations.  %^@

I'm thinking Sport or fun scale. Keep easy and loose.  LL~

You always get the information you need over time, and I do still have to finish the model.

Like yourself, others will help with info also.

Thank you for your reply.

Charles

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Online Paul Smith

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2018, 01:28:13 PM »
Now I don't know what category of scale you are going for, but unless Im mistaken in Sport Scale and Fun Scale the judges cannot be within 15' of the plane when judging.  This will allow you some leeway with the landing gear as far as accuracy goes, so something made for a F4F, as long as it fit, might get you by.  In flight the only criteria would be that it functioned right.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Gary

Some judges will give full points for ANY landing gear & flaps that go up & down.  Others will give partial credit for less-than-correct operation.
Paul Smith

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2018, 04:05:58 PM »
Some judges will give full points for ANY landing gear & flaps that go up & down.  Others will give partial credit for less-than-correct operation.

Paul,

I think having retracts, points or no points, would be nice.

Certainly a challenge plus something worth a good conversation with other modelers if I can get it done.

The wing now has many less ribs than the actual aircraft. Half as many at least, plus these have cap strips.

My documentation 3-view shows more ribs which are thin.

I'm thinking of removing the sides of the .25" cap strips plus adding a rib between these ribs, to resemble the look of the wing on the actual aircraft.

If it makes no difference, I'll leave it.

Charles

 
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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Trostle

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2018, 05:45:24 PM »
If it is a scale airplane model and the full size aircraft had fabric covering, the model should have the scale number of ribs and spacing.  Judges look for that kind of stuff.

Keith

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2018, 07:06:31 PM »
If it is a scale airplane model and the full size aircraft had fabric covering, the model should have the scale number of ribs and spacing.  Judges look for that kind of stuff.

Keith

Keith,

Thanks for the reply and info.

I kinda had a feeling about that.

Even in Sport or Fun Scale?

Charles
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Offline Trostle

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2018, 09:46:24 PM »
Keith,

Thanks for the reply and info.

I kinda had a feeling about that.

Even in Sport or Fun Scale?

Charles

For Fun Scale, ribs and rib spacing will not make much difference.  As long as you have a biplane with sort of a barrel fuselage, paint it some scale color and you can call it an F3F.  For Sport Scale, the judges will be a bit more exacting.  If you can see multiple wing ribs on the full scale airplane in the pictures, then the judges will be looking for multiple ribs on the scale model.

Keith

Offline Allen Goff

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2018, 11:59:18 AM »
Good information Keith, and Charlie you might look and see if the ribs are closer together at the "prop wash" locations. The Waco rib spacing are evenly spaced except where the prop wash comes across the wings. they are a little closer together their. Not sure if all fabric covered wings are that way.

Blessings
Allen

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Grumman F3F, Gulfhawk G-22
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2018, 09:13:20 AM »
Good information Keith, and Charlie you might look and see if the ribs are closer together at the "prop wash" locations. The Waco rib spacing are evenly spaced except where the prop wash comes across the wings. they are a little closer together their. Not sure if all fabric covered wings are that way.

Blessings
Allen

Allen,

Thank you, Blessings also.

I have the Pica Waco, built it many moons ago for R/C, it was my 'flag ship' at that time, for pitching graphics, now the covering, iron on, is literally deteriorating to the touch. Never seen fuel!  LL~

I'll redo it in silk and paint for CL. Eventually.

Seems there's always something not right keeping me from continuing with the G-22.

The one above was framed as per the plans and a Clark Y. Certainly incorrect ribs and rib spacing plus the center section is sheeted for strength for the cabanes.

My choices would be to correct these wings or build new ones from scratch.

I hate building wings.

I've been collecting drawings, photos and build articles on the G-22 for over 30 years.

I've had these Wawylam drawings for quite some time, and you are absolutely correct! Yes, the rib spacing is gathered at the wing center.

I have decisions I must make if I choose to continue with this model, or shelf it and dig out the one I have partially framed.

I hope I'll live long enough to get all this done.  ;D

Allen, thanks for the reply.

Charles




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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.


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