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Author Topic: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!  (Read 13602 times)

Offline Avaiojet

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Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« on: January 15, 2014, 11:51:35 AM »
Well, I went and did it. Designed and drawn an elliptical wing.  ;D

Maybe I should call it the non-elliptical wing because I used no airfoil software program. LL~ LL~ LL~

I didn't even use a CAD program by definition.  n1

Decided to do it myself, but "thank you" to those individuals that offered assistance.  H^^

Not a bad investment in time, under three hours got me my original wing plan and every rib, Complete!

All identical spar cut outs in place along with a constant TE height. LE height diminishes as ribs decrease in size towards the tip. Plus a different rib TE cut out for the few tip ribs. There are no two ribs alike.

TE and LE, plus wing tip parts drawn for plans, I'll print plans and build the wing on them.

I'll use Robert's advice on steaming the LE instead of layering. I'll set up nails as a guide to hold the steamed LE. See how that goes.

Flap is .375" thick and will be built up and sheeted with 1/16" balsa.

I'll "nest" those ribs and send the file to my laser cutter.

All I have to do is decide on the size of the model?

60" gets me 734 sq. inches. Thinner airfoil or not, a model that size in the wind?  n1

Yes, I know, the airfoil is a bit thinner.  ;D

Charles
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Offline John Stiles

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Re: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2014, 04:27:35 PM »
Cool! H^^
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2014, 03:09:30 PM »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline John Stiles

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Re: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2014, 04:41:55 PM »
That'll work!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline Trostle

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Re: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2014, 10:29:26 AM »
Well, I went and did it. Designed and drawn an elliptical wing.  ;D

Charles

Hey Charles,

Thought you would like to see an elliptical wing at the first and last Cape Coral Invitational in Florida around 1965.

By the way, there have been several elliptical wing stunt design published over the years with true elliptical planforms, not like many others with just curved trailing edges and straight leading edges similar to the Palmer Thunderbird.

Keith 

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2014, 10:58:52 AM »
Keith,

WOW! Thanks so much for that photo.

I just love models with true elliptical wings.

The builder carried the design over to the stab and elevator also.

Possibly someone has information on the model?

The model airplane that is.

Thanks again,

Charles

PS. Keith, something else I just noticed about that model. The elevator could have counter ballance, otherwise why would that tip design have been used? To add area?
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Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline John Stiles

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Re: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 05:52:58 AM »
That's a fine looking aircraft, Keith....I have yet to attempt anything even close to those wing shapes. That doesn't mean I don't aspire to....I just never have stumbled upon the opportunity. And Lord knows I don't have the design capability. I'll say it again....darn fine looking plane. H^^
John Stiles             Tulip, Ar.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2014, 08:23:03 AM »
Quote
Yes, this had aerodynamic horns on the elevators.  That was over 40 years ago and I did not know much about stunt at the time so I cannot say if they helped or not, but I am going to employ aerodynamic horns on my next ship which will be a semi-scale model for serious stunt.

Keith,

Hey! Hey! I hope all is well.

I remembered you mentioning the building of a new semi-scale stunt ship a while back. Took me some time to find it.

I'm curious, have you started the project? Do you have something in the works? Don't know if you'll read this Post but it would be interesting to see what you're up to with your new design?

I'm close to assembling parts to a semi-scale stunt ship also. My first effort with a real stunt model of my own design.

Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Trostle

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Re: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2014, 10:21:28 AM »
Keith,

I'm curious, have you started the project? Do you have something in the works? Don't know if you'll read this Post but it would be interesting to see what you're up to with your new design?


Plans are done.  Just received the custom "lost foam" package from Bob Hunt.  I have two airplanes to finish before that one gets started.  It will be around 680 sq in for an un-piped PA .75..  The trick will be to keep the weight to around 60 to 64 oz.  A sister ship, different semi-scale but the same basic wing is also being planned by a good friend/good builder/flier.

Thanks for asking

Keith
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 11:03:05 AM by Avaiojet »

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2015, 06:19:38 AM »
Here's the Chupim 60, designed by Marcelo Cremon.

Available as a kit from Cremon Hobby.

Find Cremon Hobby in the Vendor's Corner.

Be interesting to see how the model flies.

I really like the design. Way to go Marcelo!
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Elliptical Wing, design and layout!
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2015, 03:46:17 PM »
 Other than the desire to build an elliptical wing airplane, I would not recommend building one of these.  Yes, I still have plans that could be used to build this thing, but time would be better spent on something else.  Also  Also, that white airplane had a tricycle gear which in my opinion now is totally unnecessary on a stunt ship and adds unnecessary weight and does not help with the landings and takeoffs and is a detriment to the appearance of the airplane flying through the pattern.

Also, this combination of numbers, though giving me some success was based on a composite of a number of designs from the early 60's.  By the standards of today for what make a good stunt ship, the flaps are too small at 15%, the horizontal tail is too small at about 15% and the tail is too short.  Yes, I built a replica of my Focke Wulf several years ago and placed 2nd at the VSC when I flew it and later placed 1st at the Classic event at the Nats (all in 2008), but that winning flight was in ideal weather conditions., I have talked to another top builder/flier from that 60's/70's period who had a fairly successful elliptical wing design and he told me he was more satisfied with straight tapered wing versions of that airplane.  My opinion is that they look nice, but they are not suited for serious competition stunt.
Keith:  I also really like the looks of an elliptical wing and stab design, something I wanted to possibly build some day.  So I was disappointed to read your feelings about it not being as competitive as straight taper designs.  The Chupim60 in development and the Yatsenko brothers Shark series both seem to be competitive.   Can you comment on those ?   
Allan Perret
AMA 302406
Slidell, Louisiana


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