News:



  • March 28, 2024, 07:47:25 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: "Mig-3, Reconnaissance Aircraft and Warbird!"  (Read 254198 times)

Offline Mike Keville

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2320
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2012, 05:26:57 PM »
Don't even ask.

Charles

Okey-Dokey!   Z@@ZZZ
FORMER member, "Academy of Multi-rotors & ARFs".

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2012, 09:33:27 PM »
Well I was going to, but now I don't know! H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2012, 07:06:08 AM »
Okey-Dokey!   Z@@ZZZ
Quote
Well I was going to, but now I don't know!  H^^

Mike and Glenn,

The center line of the profile fuselage is on the right side of the fuselage thickness. This gives me .5" of fuselage width to the left of the center line. Fine with the formers, I could deduct that and place them on center.

But the tail end of the fuselage still has .5" of thickness to the left of center.

That ridiculous looking part is to balance the width of the fuselage with the same amount of material or measurement, left and right of the center line.

The piece will get cleaned up with sanding then thinned out. Finished with an external layer of 1/16" soft balsa.

I think I'll have to cut/remove the rudder and replace it on center ? Bummer. n~

I'll get a photo.

Looks like I'll have to relocate the tail wheel also.  n~  Double bummer.

Charles
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 07:37:41 AM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline MarcusCordeiro

  • 2013 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1872
  • "Never fly faster than your shoulder angel"
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2012, 09:36:48 AM »
Well, I'd say better now than later, when the ship is finished... LL~ LL~ LL~

Marcus
Live to fly, fly to live
Aces High!

"There's no try. Do or Do not." - Master Yoda

"Wealth and fame, he's ignorant
Action is his reward, look out
Here comes Marcus, man..."

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2012, 11:08:45 AM »
ok....now I see the problem.  Some people just know how to paint themselves into a corner better than others....and it appears to me Charles, that your an expert by now! LOL  Kind of like the time I built the asimetric wing upside down and made the inboard longer than the outboard....LOL
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2012, 12:36:23 PM »
ok....now I see the problem.  Some people just know how to paint themselves into a corner better than others....and it appears to me Charles, that your an expert by now! LOL  Kind of like the time I built the asimetric wing upside down and made the inboard longer than the outboard....LOL

Glenn,

Didn't you mention that error once before? Fly clockwise?

Mental illness expressed in many different ways.  :-[

Dennis,

They give me four days in and three days out.  n~

If you followed the Thread, I honestly didn't expect it to go in this direction.

Gotta be careful because each fix could add weight. Keep that in mind. ;D

Charles


Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2012, 01:09:50 PM »
Nope, that's not trick photography in Photoshop.

Oh my gosh! I went and did it!

Dedication or insanity?

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2012, 01:32:27 PM »
I believe thats dedicated insanity!  LOL

I used to be insane, but I'm Muuuuccchhhhhh better now! n~ hahaha

oh yeah....I absolutely love the look of this ship.  I can see a request for plans in the near future. H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Chris Wilson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1710
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2012, 02:28:25 PM »
I am not sure if its easier to follow this all of thread through in its entirety or simply wait for the hard cover book to be published in seven different languages.

Or perhaps a set of Al Rabe tutorial style disks so that I can go back and  ............... no, what am I thinking!

Charles, you are worth the price of admission just for the entertainment value alone and it would not surprise me one iota if this morphed into a twin engined biplane with floats. :)

If there was a Hasbro Transformer control line model, this would be it. Optimus Loser eat your heart out.
MAAA AUS 73427

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
 Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.  It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2012, 04:50:37 PM »
What Chris said! y1
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2012, 05:27:05 PM »
A little rub n buff with a coarse grit!

Looks better without the rudder.  n~

Nah!

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2012, 07:30:20 AM »
Stringers! I really don't need them now actually, but it's clean work.

I'll need plenty more eventually. Stringer making gismo.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline FLOYD CARTER

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4458
    • owner
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2012, 12:32:37 PM »
I doubt that any of you have put as much work into a simple model as Charles seems to have done.  And it's not yet finished!

F.C.
89 years, but still going (sort of)
AMA #796  SAM #188  LSF #020

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2012, 01:29:30 PM »
I doubt that any of you have put as much work into a simple model as Charles seems to have done.  And it's not yet finished!F.C.

Floyd,

That's a good observation. I may have mentioned, or someone may have mentioned, I could have built two models for the same effort.  n~

Thank for the post!

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2012, 01:42:00 PM »
Are you sure its just two models? <= H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2012, 07:03:16 PM »
OK, I'm now at that proverbial "Dear in the road with the headlight issue."  :o

I have no idea what I'm staring at, but I took a few photos.

This is where a decision has to be made, as to what I'm going to cut up, in order to get my "Tom Morris, custom made, double throw, asymmetrical, off center, steel, control horn," in place! TMCMDTAOCSCH  n~

This has got to be a cross road decision?

I gotta get that horn in there, get the flaps aligned to the wire and have the fuselage in place at the same time.  HB~>

And be able to remove it at will!

I shoulda just bolted horns to the flaps. ~^

Suggestions?

The bright side is, I did manage to do a bit more shaping of that rear end squid thing.  n~

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2012, 09:52:13 AM »
OK, I have my game plan, or have this mapped out, as some would say.  #^

Everything is marked/registered so the wing can be put back in the identical place when refitting it into the fuselage.

I'll remove the wing from the fuselage and put the fuselage aside.

I will then attach the "TMCMDTAOCSCH" but not permanently! It will be removable.

Attaching it only means removing a tad of the TE so the wire can sit recessed 50% into the TE and on center. Also, cutting a slice, four actually, for the brass "U" shaped pieces used to hold the wire in place. Nothing complicated at all. 

When everything is tight and snug, I'll drill one hole into the top of the TE through the brass and out the bottom of the TE. This will be for a pin that will go in place when all this is assembled for the last time. I'll drill both sides for these pins. I've seen guys tie these in place.

Once the "TMCMDTAOCSCH" is temporarily in place, I can mark my flaps, drill the .125" hole in them to accept the bent flap wire, and trim the excess flap ends to suit.

When these tasks are completed, I'll remove the "TMCMDTAOCSCH" from the wing. I'll slip the wing back into the fuselage with the "TMCMDTAOCSCH" loosely in place tucked nice nice at the TE of the wing opening in the fuselage. When the wing and fuselage are once again lined up, same marks, I can insert the brass "U" pieces and pin them.

Have I got it?

I think I've got it! Cheerio!!

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2012, 12:54:48 PM »
Yep, sounds perfectly ordinary to me. n~ H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline MarcusCordeiro

  • 2013 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1872
  • "Never fly faster than your shoulder angel"
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2012, 01:28:51 PM »
I liked the pics, you can see the lines of the model taking shape.
I'm gonna wait a little longer to guess about the weight....
Are you hollowing that fuselage? S?P

Marcus
Live to fly, fly to live
Aces High!

"There's no try. Do or Do not." - Master Yoda

"Wealth and fame, he's ignorant
Action is his reward, look out
Here comes Marcus, man..."

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #69 on: December 22, 2012, 06:07:42 PM »
Ya gotta love it when a plan comes together.  ;D

Spent a bit of time this evening, actually broke away from baking Christmas cookies for the Carolers that come around. Yeah right!

Hinges were already done early on with the build and the flaps were tapered then also. Easier to drill them for control horn wire before they are tapered.

Recessed the control horn and wire, heald on with masking tape. All this will be removed when I slip the wing into the fuselage for the final time.

Drilled holes, hinges align perfectly, a snug bug in a snug rug. Is that how it goes?  :##

If the flaps needed tweaking, they will be removed and the wire will be fine tuned.

I'll trim the .125" wire to allow for the flaps to slip in the required distance. I also have to relocate two inboard hinges.

NBD. No big deal.  n~

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #70 on: December 22, 2012, 08:59:26 PM »
The wing can now be put aside seeing the flaps have been fitted to the control horn wire. At least for the moment.

Nothing here worth opening a bottle of Champagne over, but another task to complete.

Scratch built elevator and stab, soon to be drilled for the custom Tom Morris control horn and wire.

Made to my supplied measurements and dead on! Thank you Tom Morris!

These control surfaces and parts will not get covered with silk or silkspan. I'm taking a fellow modeler's advice and will cover them with light 1/16" balsa.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #71 on: December 22, 2012, 10:21:55 PM »
I liked the pics, you can see the lines of the model taking shape.I'm gonna wait a little longer to guess about the weight....
Are you hollowing that fuselage? S?P Marcus

Marcus,

Clever to make that guess later on, as I said, I'll be giving up weight information later in the build. Actually at anytime.

The model's weight, for the contest, only includes what I've listed in the first post. Only what's on the list.

Hollowing the fuselage more? It's already hollow! But I believe I can find a few areas to trim a bit of material.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline MarcusCordeiro

  • 2013 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1872
  • "Never fly faster than your shoulder angel"
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2012, 12:07:20 PM »
Are you going to run one pushrod at each side of the "profile" fuselage?
Like,  the one from the bellcrank to the flap horn on the left and the one from the flap to the elevators on the right?
I'm assuming this based on your pics, and the right side has more "room", doesn't it?

Marcus
Live to fly, fly to live
Aces High!

"There's no try. Do or Do not." - Master Yoda

"Wealth and fame, he's ignorant
Action is his reward, look out
Here comes Marcus, man..."

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2012, 12:27:24 PM »
Are you going to run one pushrod at each side of the "profile" fuselage?
Like,  the one from the bellcrank to the flap horn on the left and the one from the flap to the elevators on the right?
I'm assuming this based on your pics, and the right side has more "room", doesn't it?Marcus

Marcus,

Exactly! Oh you are so clever! You win a cookie.   ;D

How are you making out with your Magnum? Did you get in touch with Tom for your hardware?

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline MarcusCordeiro

  • 2013 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1872
  • "Never fly faster than your shoulder angel"
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2012, 01:41:23 PM »
Make it chocolate chips...
Well, I haven't had an answer to my emails yet, and thought it would be a good idea to wait until after the holidays to call him.
It's really weird, after all it seems I'm the only one who can't get in touch with him.
About the Magnum...

Marcus
Live to fly, fly to live
Aces High!

"There's no try. Do or Do not." - Master Yoda

"Wealth and fame, he's ignorant
Action is his reward, look out
Here comes Marcus, man..."

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #75 on: December 23, 2012, 08:40:22 PM »
Temporary stringers set up on the thrust line. Purpose, at this point, is to see if the fuselage doublers are correct. A couple need shimming.

NBD. No big deal.

Charles

P.S.

Don't forget the $100.00, guess The LOSER weight contest. Check it out in the Vendor's corner at CFC Graphics, where it has been moved!

Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #76 on: December 24, 2012, 07:26:59 AM »
We don't have anything planned untill tonight, so I'll get a bit of time in today working on The LOSER.  #^

Next, I expect to set up the correct and permanent length of the bellcrank horn to the flap horn pushrod. This rod will NOT be adjustable.

The flaps will have to be dead center!

I'll do this, with success, WITHOUT using an incidence meter. I have NEVER used an incidence meter to set up any of my R/C pattern ships, or any model for that matter. I know guys that love these gismos, and guys that wouldn't even consider using them.

I'm from the school of the non-user.  n~

See how this goes?

Charles


Don't forget the $100.00, "guess The LOSER weight contest." Check it out in the Vendor's corner at CFC Graphics, where it has been moved!

« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 06:01:23 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #77 on: December 25, 2012, 10:25:40 AM »
I mentioned the non-adjustable bellcrank to flap pushrod.

It will be concealed in the fuselage, without a method of access, and that's just the way it's going to be.

In most typical cases, an airfoil center line drawn on the fuselage. Makes for easy flap alignment. I'm doing mine without the use of a drawn center line on the fuselage.

I said I would not use an incidence meter in the process of centering the flaps. I also said I would get the flaps centered "dead on!"

A difficult task? Not at all.

The wing is 1 7/8" thick. Half of that is 15/16". There's my drawing, simple as pie.

I made a balsa jig of the same measurements with the centerline at 15/16".

I installed the jig between the flaps, centered it at the flap wire and CA'd it in place at the spars. A drop on each.

I aligned the flap with the center line on the jig. I then placed a wedge between the flap and my jig so everything would be snug without any movement at all.

You can see the ball joint attached to the inboard flap control horn with the adjustable 4-40 end.

The pushrod gets marked, removed and cut. Nothing hard about that.

The pushrod is assembled to the 4-40 end and ball joint.  I'll attach the bellcrank end of the pushrod at this time.

The jig can be put back in place for fine tuning if necessary at any time.

Done!

Charles


Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #78 on: December 25, 2012, 11:11:52 AM »
Dead on!

Charles
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 05:55:14 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #79 on: December 25, 2012, 07:07:36 PM »
While I had the wing out I thought I'd get a mental picture of the landing gear wood mounts and their placement.

That's actually not true, I already did this but, at the time, I didn't have any gear rails/blocks.  n~

I'm using Tom Morris hard wood gear blocks. TMHWGB.

I just trimmed them a bit, for weight saving practice, for when I build a serious pattern ship. ;D

Anyway, the TMHWGB started out at 5/8" X 3/8", they are now 1/2" X 5/16". Lean, mean fighting machine!

Here's the before and after photo, looks like, "Honey, I shrunk the kids!"

An improvement?

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Randy Powell

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10484
  • TreeTop Flyer
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #80 on: December 26, 2012, 02:00:54 PM »
Well, it's an interesting approach anyway.
Member in good standing of P.I.S.T
(Politically Incorrect Stunt Team)
AMA 67711
 Randy Powell

Offline Mike Haverly

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 844
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #81 on: December 26, 2012, 02:19:42 PM »
"Anyway, the TMHWGB started out at 5/8" X 3/8", they are now 1/2" X 5/16". Lean, mean fighting machine"

I use 1/4 x 1/2 basswood for the same thing.
Mike

Offline Mark Scarborough

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 5918
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #82 on: December 26, 2012, 03:05:03 PM »
I build mine up out of 1/8" ply, one layer for base, and then two strips to make the "groove",, I believe its stronger,, and certainly no heavier
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #83 on: December 26, 2012, 03:26:39 PM »
I build mine up out of 1/8" ply, one layer for base, and then two strips to make the "groove",, I believe its stronger,, and certainly no heavier

Mark,

Merry Christmas and thanks for the reply!

I believe you may be correct with that ply substitute. I have plenty of it and could have saved some money and time. Thanks for that tip, it's a good one.

Dan,

Merry Christmas and thanks for the reply!

I never used an incidence meter for any model I've ever built. My pattern ships were straight.

Here's a few photos as to where I've progressed. As I said, the flaps are dead on at neutral and move the same distance in both directions. 45 degrees up travel and 45 degrees down travel. After the flap was extended to the max in one direction, I made a guage. Turned out to be exactly 45 degrees. Matched perfectly on both sides.

I don't believe I'll need or use the 45 degrees of travel in the flaps? The elevator horn will be adjustable. Just following advice given from others.

Thanks again for the replies.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #84 on: December 26, 2012, 04:52:46 PM »
Hey Charles.  Another excellent tip about centering the flaps.  Personally I can't afford a wing incident meter or such-like, so doing without has been my lot in life.  Your tip is going to save me a lot of building angst! H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #85 on: December 27, 2012, 05:26:47 PM »
Now that my flaps were fitted dead on the airfoil centerline and the bellcrank to flap pushrod is was determined, cut and test fitted, I can remove my flaps, place them aside and move on to covering the wing center section with 1/16" light balsa sheeting.

These pieces were fitted and cut quite a ways back. Top and bottom plus register marks for alignment makes their placement easy.

Radius corners drawn for cuteness.

Charles
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 05:56:52 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #86 on: December 27, 2012, 05:44:33 PM »
If anyone out there has that article (for the home-made incidence meter), would you please post it for us that don't?  That would be nice indeed. H^^

And again Charles....thanks for all the great tips and techniques you use, I find them invaluable. H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #87 on: December 27, 2012, 07:22:06 PM »
Hey Dan....how about sharing that article with those of us that don't have it?  Would be much appreciated. H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Mark Scarborough

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 5918
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #88 on: December 28, 2012, 12:11:04 AM »
Hey Dan....how about sharing that article with those of us that don't have it?  Would be much appreciated. H^^
Glenn
It was published,,,generally that means copyrighted,,, you can probably go back through your old model aviation magazines and find it,,,you are a member right ?
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
EXILED IN PULLMAN WA
AMA 842137

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #89 on: December 28, 2012, 01:03:50 AM »
No...I can't afford magazines and building, so building it is.  Cash is, and always has been, fairly tight.  And besides, why on earth would I be a member of the AMA? H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline dirty dan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 330
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #90 on: December 28, 2012, 12:41:36 PM »
No...I can't afford magazines and building, so building it is.  Cash is, and always has been, fairly tight.  And besides, why on earth would I be a member of the AMA? H^^

Yes, let me jump right on that. You can't be bothered to be in the AMA and yet you want me to furnish an article published in the AMA magazine.

Not a chance. And not just because I don't want to take the time. I don't actually have the magazine version of that article. I do have advance material from Derek, this including very nice plans and a bill of materials. Where this stuff is in my shop not known at this time.

Dan
 
Dan Rutherford

Offline Tim Wescott

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 12804
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2012, 01:00:36 PM »
Depending on the agreement made between the AMA and Derek, the advance material that Derek gave to Dan either belongs to Derek or to the AMA, and Dan has no more rights to it than he does a paper copy of a magazine (specifically, he certainly doesn't have rights to make a bazillion copies and send them hither and yon).

The article as published in Model Aviation certainly belongs to the AMA.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline dirty dan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 330
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #92 on: December 28, 2012, 01:23:38 PM »
Depending on the agreement made between the AMA and Derek, the advance material that Derek gave to Dan either belongs to Derek or to the AMA, and Dan has no more rights to it than he does a paper copy of a magazine (specifically, he certainly doesn't have rights to make a bazillion copies and send them hither and yon).

The article as published in Model Aviation certainly belongs to the AMA.

Agreed. Even if I could lay my hands on the material immediately it would not be copied and furnished to others. Not knowing where it is in my shop was merely a dodge and not a very clever one at that, even if it is the truth.

As to the how and the why I was furnished advance material, I played a minor role working with Derek in getting his design published. I remember tapping my connections to Bob Hunt, being sure to get Derek introduced to Bob, and I named the device. (Told you my role was minor!)

Other than that, all credit for what is very clearly the best incidence meter available--and I believe all commercially-produced units are in my shop, in some cases in multiples--belongs to Mr. Moran.

It is most certainly worth the time to tap into the Model Aviation database, go through the article and then to order plan and BOM package. No one will be disappointed!

Dan


 
Dan Rutherford

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2012, 05:08:59 PM »
I wouldn't join the AMA because I'm a Canadian.  We, up here, join MAAC.  Perhaps if you became a MAAC member I would consider joining your AMA.  and as usual Dan, your messages are full of kindness and understanding.  A true joy to read. H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #94 on: December 28, 2012, 06:06:38 PM »
Did a bit of work today on The LOSER wing center section.

Actually glued in place the wing 1/16" center sheeting. As I said, I did make them a while back. Look better with the radius corners and a bit of rub n buff with 150.

Not to shabby a wing seeing all I started out with was a bunch of Sig Twister ribs and salvaged wing tips from the original LOSER wing.  n~

Last photo is the sheeting protected with simple transfer paper. I've got tasks on the bottom side, , plywood doublers, gear blocks and more center sheeting. Don't want to beat up the balsa sheeting if it's not necessary.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach

  • Gravitywell
  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1391
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #95 on: December 29, 2012, 12:00:35 AM »
Good idea with the transfer paper. H^^
Glenn Reach
Westlock, Alberta
gravitywell2011 @ gmail . com

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #96 on: December 29, 2012, 07:53:59 AM »
Good idea with the transfer paper. H^^

Glenn,

You're just to kind!  n~

You can get that stuff for free. Just walk into a sign shop and ask for their short rolls. ;D

What have we here? OH MY GOSH! More parts and more weight!  ???

Can't do without these parts if you choose to have gear in the wings? Doublers are only 1/32" ply and the gear blocks will be cut down and trimmed. This should save some weight?  HH%%

About truthful weight.

The New American, I told the weight exactly "as it was!" That contest, remember?

The LOSER, I'll tell that weight "exactly" the way it is also.  ;D

I see no point in misleading the Forum Community by boasting about a light weight that doesn't exist. Besides being misleading, this would have absolutely no benefit to anyone at all.  n1

Also, don't forget!

The $100.00 Holiday Giveaway!! I'll post a link and a reminder on the 1st, to CFC Graphics's Vendor's Corner, where you can post your weight guess.

All can guess the weight of The LOSER and someone will win $100.00 in custom vinyl or masks.

Read about it at my Vendor's Corner.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #97 on: December 29, 2012, 10:34:09 AM »
I believe I'm doing more surgery than building or am I doing both?    ;D

Could have notched these ribs for the gear blocks and made these doublers "before" I built the wing. Would have been easier but who knew I'd opt for wing mounted landing gear.

Why do they call it "landing gear?" Why not "take off gear?"

Still playing with color combinations.

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #98 on: December 29, 2012, 11:22:20 AM »
Here's my first gear block in place. So snug I won't need glue. Just kidding!  ;D

Actually put it in place one minute ago, so the photo is almost like real time, almost.   n~

Now I have to tackle the other side plus the vertical blocks. Gotta have those vertical blocks.

Charles
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 12:59:36 PM by Avaiojet »
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Avaiojet

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7468
  • Just here for the fun of it also.
Re: "The Loser" revisited!
« Reply #99 on: December 29, 2012, 12:58:56 PM »
There's my trusty little verticals put in place before epoxying. I'll use 5 minute epoxy for the gear rails and vertical pieces.

I have alignment marks so I can get it right on assembly. No point in guessing.

Just one thing left to do before I glue these four pieces in place? Do you know what that is?    ;D

Cut a tiny bevel at the end of the gear rail block, the recess area, where the vertical piece comes in contact with the gear rail. Have to take a tad of material away to allow for the gear wire to seat properly at the gear wire's 90 degree bend.

Just got this done! Hard to do work on The LOSER between watching these NCIS shows. I love that show!   n~

Charles
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here