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Author Topic: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia  (Read 2275 times)

Offline Paul Smith

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Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« on: November 17, 2009, 08:08:33 AM »
I built one of these is 1975 as a Class I.  Howard designed it to be interchangable for Class I or II.  He won Class I at The Nats, but not Class II.  I should have read that closer.  I built my first one as a II and didn't win anything, either.

My first one looked OK, but was just too small for 60.

The plans, as published in the magazine, were simplified quite a bit so I modified the build to be closer to realistic.  Since this one in for Nostalgia, I'll be sticking closer to the author's design letting realism go by the wayside.

Paul Smith

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2009, 09:25:39 AM »
First the wing....

I went with outdoor leadouts this time.  The Brodak bellcrank is a lot bulkier than the old J.Roberts unit.  To get it inside would have been tough and also weakened the stucture.  This setup will let them be adjustable and maybe sliding  in the future.
Paul Smith

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2009, 10:57:28 AM »
Pretty cool, often thought about this bird. VA215 was aboard the Hancock flying A-1D's along with us on all our westpac and yankee station deployments. Was always impressed with the payload these things could carry.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2009, 11:52:43 AM »
Yep, 13 external bomb racks.  More payload that 4-engine bombers (pre B-29).   Rolled out in 1945, too late for WWII, but made it to Korea and Vietnam.  Still active in 1973.  Used by France and some of it's colonies unitl 1986.

In the 70's guys were getting sick of navy blue and going to the grey paint jobs.  Since this is retro, I've flipped back to the blue, with dyed silk.  I'll be covering and doping the parts before final assembly.

Paul Smith

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2009, 12:39:14 PM »
Making good progress, at this rate you will have it finished before my FJ.

Sadly we lost several Skyraiders over Vietnam, they were no match for the Mig, couldn't out run it and the fighters weren't always close enough to help..

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2009, 01:43:45 PM »
I hadn't heard that any Skyraiders were shot down by MiG's, but it's sure possible.  By the time I was over there, there were stories of Skyraiders scoring a few MiG kills.  In the later stages of the war, there were enough well-armed F4's orbiting to keep the MiG's home.

I read that the Skyraiders were so well-liked that there was cost study of having Douglas restart production, but it went by the wayside in favor of the LTV A-7D Corsair II.

I'm not that fast of a builder, this is the last of 10-day backlog of pictures.  Final assembly is a challenge.  I will have to cut off the top block (only lightly glued), then install and adjust the flight and engine controls, then install the fuel tank, then put the top back on and sand and paint it.  On yeah, a tailhook, too.

I started to make the balsa wood canopy, per the plan, but then fiddled around for half a shift vacuum forming one.  Carrier isn't supposed to be a beauty pageant, but I might have a cockpit if it goes well.  The long handle is for holding the frame over my Jen-Aire grill.
Paul Smith

Offline Wayne J. Buran

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2009, 02:34:51 PM »
Paul, one of my favorites. Quite a few upcountry in Thailand, mostly NKP. Although we had a couple visit DonMuang they mostly stayed upcountry. To hard to explain to the press in Bangkok. Attached is a picture of one at "The Royal Thai Air Force" museum that I took a picture of last year.
Keep up the good work on your "Spad". Hope to see it at Brodaks.
Wayne Buran
Medina, Ohio
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USAF Veteran 35 TAC GP/ 6236 CSG, DonMuang RTAFB, Bangkok, Thailand 65-66 North Coast Controliners   "A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well!

Offline Thomas Wilk

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2009, 05:00:02 PM »
Douglas AD-4 Skyraider paint schemes.   H^^   S?P

Tom Wilk

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2009, 10:59:45 PM »
Thanks.

There's one scheme that's mentioned in a book, but I haven't seen a photo yet.  Something to the effect that two Navy carrier squardons had their Skyraiders painted green with grey bottoms for flying missions over the jungle, sort of Army or USAF style.  Lacking a photo, I could still use the paragraph as documention.
Paul Smith

Offline Thomas Wilk

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2009, 05:17:28 PM »
Maybe one of these

Tom Wilk

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2009, 05:32:19 PM »
Your first picture of FR 072 looks like the one on display at NKP in 1972-73, only cleaned up and repainted. Maybe somebody brought it home.  I found some faded pictures of the faded airplane

These are all USAF and VNAF schemes. The one I'll curious about is a Navy camo job.  I found then black & white photo of the green and gray Navy A1. Not a beauty, but an unusual subject.

The other two B&W photos are the Alert SARCAP A1 Hobos at NKP. They were kept armed and ready to support the Jolly Greens.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 09:09:12 PM by Paul Smith »
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2009, 03:38:04 PM »
I'm about to go on a three-week non-modeling road trip, so I won't finish this job any time soon,

The plane is so small, there's no room for access panels, so the control system and fuel tank will be built it. Do it right the first time! The final assembly step will be gluing on the top block, after everything has been thoroughly tested.

The plane weighs 28 ounces now. I hope to keep the finished product under 33.  

The Brodak bellcrank has about 1.15" inches of throttle output, but the OS carb only wants 0.70". To reconcile this, I had to make a new, longer throttle arm for the engine. Otherwise the line pull will be transferred into the throttle.

Paul Smith

Offline Peter Roberts

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2009, 05:40:52 AM »
Here's one I made back in the mid 70's. Built exactly as per plan except for the cowl. Power is an ST G21/40 and weight is around 34ozs. I've still got the model.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2009, 07:19:32 AM »
That's a GREAT looking airplane. You put a lot more detail into it than I plan to.

I see you also went with the no-hatch, do-it-right-the-first-time approach.  

So you just slip the engine straight in from the top and dispense with the removable cowl, too?

One parting shot:
The measurement of TRUE NET tip weight.

The airplane is supported using the crankshaft as a trunnion. Glow plug removed, lubed with WD, and set so crankcase compression is not a factor.

The inboard wing is counter-weighted to the balance point.

The counter weight is run across the postal scale.

Result:
1.0 ounces of TRUE NET tip weight.  
This NOT the same as merely how much lead is in the tip.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 09:01:29 AM by Paul Smith »
Paul Smith

Offline Peter Roberts

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2009, 03:08:32 PM »
Paul, yep... engine just drops in. It does make keeping a 1/4" gap around the engine a bit more difficult though.

Offline Wayne J. Buran

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2009, 05:51:28 PM »
Here's one I made back in the mid 70's. Built exactly as per plan except for the cowl. Power is an ST G21/40 and weight is around 34ozs. I've still got the model.

Pete, I remember seeing that paint job in a Skyraider book. I really liked it so much I painted my Guardians the same for years. Nice looking airplane, you ought to resurect it for nostalgia.
Thanks for the memory.
Wayne
Wayne Buran
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USAF Veteran 35 TAC GP/ 6236 CSG, DonMuang RTAFB, Bangkok, Thailand 65-66 North Coast Controliners   "A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well!

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2009, 05:55:21 PM »
A  bit more progress.  I going with the old traditional boring Navy blue.  In this case done with dyed silk and clear dope.

It won't be the ultimate in beauty, but it will maximize fibre strength and minimize weight.
Paul Smith

Offline Douglas Ames

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 08:12:29 PM »

<snip> Oh, and never, ever, try to cross the flight deck to the island during Operation Cat Eye, the Marines get very perturbed. Guess how I learned this on fine evening off VN. H^^

I served in the USAF/ SAC in the mid 80's as a KC-135A/Q Crewchief. Pulled SAC Alert duty several times. There is a painted Red line that seperates the Bombers/ Nukes from the Tankers within the Alert facility, with a Guard tower in between...Don't ever get caught walking over it, or even near it alone. We were briefed in plain English- "Lethal Force would be used".

Here's my favorite Sea Blue Skyraider
AMA 656546

If you do a little bit every day it will get done, or you can do it tomorrow.

Offline catdaddy

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2009, 07:45:42 AM »
I served in the USAF/ SAC in the mid 80's as a KC-135A/Q Crewchief. Pulled SAC Alert duty several times. There is a painted Red line that seperates the Bombers/ Nukes from the Tankers within the Alert facility, with a Guard tower in between...Don't ever get caught walking over it, or even near it alone. We were briefed in plain English- "Lethal Force would be used".

Here's my favorite Sea Blue Skyraider

My first TDY when I was crewing an E3 Sentry was to "Why Not Minot". They parked my plane next to an alert hanger but failed to tell me there was a cocked bird inside. I went into the hanger to get a bucket of water to service the toilet and when I came back out through a personel door I was staring down the barrels of about eight M16s. They were very excited about having something to do and took full advantage of my transgression. Sky cops get very, very bored in Minot. Two of them later bought me a beer at the NCO club.
regards,
Rick"catdaddy"Blankenship

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2009, 08:17:34 AM »
My project is currently on hold due to a couple roadblocks of my own making.

First, I made a vacuum formed canopy, which came out OK, but triggered the need for a pilot.  Since the model is 1/20, the normal Williams Brothers 1/12 unit is way too big.  Based on advice from this forum, I was able to order what I need from Peter's Pilots in England.  The price is bit spendy, but they offer a lot of sizes other than the usual 1/12, 1/8, 1/6, 1/5, etc.

The other unexpected problem was the basic Navy/USAF stars and bars decals.  I was a bit disappointed that none of the three surviving hobby shop in the metro area have them.  Back in the day, they would have been a basic over-the-counter item.  Solution: the usual Brodak E-order.  

------------------

I did SAC alert for three years.  I never gave the SKY COPS a chance to demo their takedown maneuver.  

On one of my early orientation flights, I flew (as a passenger) from Orlando Florida to Goose Bay Labrador to pick up a couple of our alert crews.  They were a 7-day rotation.  While we there, we got re-tasked to take a detachment of SKY COPS back to Shreveport.  There were about 40 men and 5 attack dogs (who weren't all that well-trained and didn't like the engine noise). En route home we found that they had been deployed to Goose for a 30-day tour of duty, but had not been relieved for 60 days.  Their CO put up a stink to get them home without further delay.

Crew Duty Day is capital offense in the air force.  This business of picking up the passengers and dropping them off at Shreveport would have run the AC out of flying time, so he went in back and went to sleep along with the air police and let me fly the plane.  I thought, it just can't get any better!  I haven't even had Lesson 1 in this aircraft and I'm at FL 310 over Canada with 60 men and 5 dogs on board.





« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 02:39:00 PM by Paul Smith »
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Offline don Burke

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2009, 12:16:33 PM »
One of the test pilots at where I used to work flew A-1s in Vietnam.  He said one time he got to look a truck driver in the eye while making passes over the Ho Chi Minh trail.  That's getting up close and not-so friendly.  He also said, that they used to chase VC out of the grass at the ends of their runways by making low passes over the grass, sometimes getting grass stains on the prop, tall grass I guess!  Tall tale maybe.
don Burke AMA 843
Menifee, CA

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2009, 01:11:00 PM »
Probably not, one of our A4 pilots had to bingo to Da Nang after strafing a water buffalo with a Hughes gun pod, pulled up too late and bounced the A4's drop tanks and gun pod off a rice patty. I was flown it to clean out and recover the gun pod.

Offline skyshark58

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2009, 07:33:54 PM »
SIG has star and bar decals. Cheaper than Brodak and you don't have to fool around sticking the red stripe on the bar.
mike potter

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2009, 08:01:38 AM »
All done and out the door. 36 days in the chop, which included a 17-day vacation and nine days waiting for the pilots and decals.  I ended up using Brodak 1/2A decals which fir the 1/20 scale OK.  They nare valid for the first three years of the airplane's 40-year life.  The "Pete's Pilots" WWII product fits the era, along with the (boring) navy blue coloration.

Paul Smith

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Howard Mottin Skyraider project for Class I Nostalgia
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2009, 10:56:25 AM »
Looks great and I hope she flies as well as she looks.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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