Author Topic: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier (Read 958 times)

bdt-m · « **on:** June 06, 2023, 08:01:44 AM »

The rules for Nostalgia should be changed not to allow modern engines. Period specific engines only should be allowed, I find it puzzling that anyone would expect +50-year-old engine to be even remotely competitive with a modern-day engine.... plenty of older engines for sale on forums, eBay, ect...

Possibly the entrants of carrier can have a good-open discussion on changing the rules, the 20-point bonus for period specific engines is not enough IMO.

david smith · « **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2023, 03:10:41 PM »

I believe the intent was to allow current engines to encourage participation, not for performance reasons. The result just ended up, as with any competition, people trying to perform the best. I don't agree with disallowing current engines, instead more of an incentive for the period correct engines. It needs to be enough so the old engines with bonus are as close as you can get to the current engines. I would be concerned that if you changed it the handful of people that fly would not fly anymore because they don't have or just don't want the older engines. I can tell you that I don't have any period correct engines and I am not going to buy anything just for nostalgia. I would love to one day finish my Berkley Savage and Randall Tigercat but they will have some sort of newer engines in them.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2023, 04:27:42 PM »

Profile Carrier is a whole different thing from US Navy Carrier event, Class I and Class II.
US Navy Carrier event allowed ANY engine at all.

Class I allowed up to .40, but was soon amended to .4028 to accommodate World Engines when the G21/40 was found to be oversize and illegal. When you buy monthly full page ads in Model Aviation, rules changes come right quick.

Class II was the new unlimited class, but was limited to .65 at some point.

Profile was a unique special case. Up until 1975, it was limited to STOCK plain bearing RC 36's with the factory throttle. This effectively limited the event to the OS Max III, K&B Greenhead, Veco, and ST 35 CRC, of which I had and still have all four. But the engine builders couldn't sleep at night knowing that peasants (like me) were winning contests. So they blew out the event with the current UNLIMITED 36 engines

I would WELCOME a true Nostalgia Prolife event, but that won't happen unless I outlive The Committee.

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2023, 04:32:21 PM »

I agree that the engine issue in Nostalgia is out of control. But...Floating a possible solution on Stunthangar is a simple way to collect some thought but nothing else will come of it. You need to build something and join the activity. Being an active participant will provide the legitimacy needed to promote the desired change. I can't emphasize that enough.

bdt-m · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2023, 04:53:10 PM »

"It needs to be enough so the old engines with bonus are as close as you can get to the current engines"... I would ask the bonus to be redone to just make the use of the period specific engines competitive with modern day engines. I can't see a Nostalgic event using $500 or more engines.

I know of more than 8 period specific PC engines in good shape on sale on eBay alone, most for $50-$75. As far as legitimacy, it's hard to become an "active participant" to events that have erroneous rules. IMO part of the reason (there are many) for a lack of participation are rules that make little sense, I can see most contestants not willing to compete in a Nostalgia event that does not truly award period specific equipment.

Bob Heywood · « **Reply #5 on:** June 06, 2023, 05:40:48 PM »

Quote from: bdt-m on June 06, 2023, 04:53:10 PM

"It needs to be enough so the old engines with bonus are as close as you can get to the current engines"... I would ask the bonus to be redone to just make the use of the period specific engines competitive with modern day engines. I can't see a Nostalgic event using $500 or more engines.

I know of more than 8 period specific PC engines in good shape on sale on eBay alone, most for $50-$75. As far as legitimacy, it's hard to become an "active participant" to events that have erroneous rules. IMO part of the reason (there are many) for a lack of participation are rules that make little sense, I can see most contestants not willing to compete in a Nostalgia event that does not truly award period specific equipment.

I think we're done here. Enjoy your life...

bdt-m · « **Reply #6 on:** June 06, 2023, 06:01:27 PM »

Quote from: Bob Heywood on June 06, 2023, 05:40:48 PM

I think we're done here. Enjoy your life...

Really never done Bob, sharing opinions, experience and trying to make something good even better, is a job that is never done. I plan (God willing) to be at the Nat's, if you you're done, I won't twist your ear....

john e. holliday · « **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2023, 06:17:06 PM »

I know I'm breaking one of mt rules on posting. People will fly carrier if they like to go fast and slow. I have more fun trying to go slow like the ral planes do even if you watch vudeos of carrier flying they are not that slow on landing. At an Olathe Naval Air Show many years ago there was a navy pilot flying a jet down the show central runway with the nose up at a 60 degree angle. Soundedlike he was almost at full power because when he got to the end of the runway he went vertical out of sight. I would not have beleived it if I hadn't seen it. I also don't like it while trying to go degrees without the plane flopping over on its back. Watch out guys I may get my old Tiger powered Bearcat flying again. I will enter a contest now only to support who ever is having it.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #8 on:** June 07, 2023, 06:40:51 AM »

Per the "old" scoring system, if you go one MPH faster you get 4 points more.
So the 20-point bonus for an historic engine would cover a 5 MPH loss of speed.
I have some operational Greenheads, CRC's and G21's in hand.
I have a feeling that a modern engine can cover the 5 MPH bonus without too much effort.

bdt-m · « **Reply #9 on:** June 07, 2023, 10:03:30 AM »

Nostalgia PC using period specific model & engine (Fox PC .36, Testor/McCoy .35, ST C.35, ect...) a very good High Speed is 20 seconds/90 mph. The same period specific airplane model using a modern-day engine (Aloise X-.36, Nelson, Wiley, K&B, ect...) is 17 seconds/106 mph. The difference using the same period specific airplane model is 16 mph or (16 x 4) 64 points.

When the advantage gained becomes 44 points (64-20 bonus points), the reason why some are using modern day engines makes a lot of sense, however; doesn't solve the issue Nostalgia Carrier is not truly Nostalgia and needs a rules change leveling the playing field.

A bonus point structure of +70 points instead of the current 20, would favor period specific engines, limit the use of modern engines, lower engine cost, and truly make it Nostalgia carrier.

Kelly Hite · « **Reply #10 on:** June 07, 2023, 05:02:41 PM »

bdt-m, you make good points and present seemingly logical proposals.
For... events that you don't participate in because the rules don't suit you.
Witch is perfectly fine...here where it's all just discussion and opinion, such is the the reason for forums.
Rules don't get changed on forums.
Your obviously interested in participating in various carrier events.
Please, DO IT, the hobby needs your participation, become proficient with practice, make friends, and most importantly...have fun.
Nothing in the rules against that.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #11 on:** June 08, 2023, 07:41:20 AM »

The BEST case solution is to replace the AMA Rules with a set of rules that will attract more people to the main events.
Then we won't have to create lounge acts outside "the rule book".

My club is mostly free flighters. They abandoned The AMA Rule Book decades ago. They create events every year. When somebody figures out to win 100% of the time, they abandon the event and make a new one.

bdt-m · « **Reply #12 on:** June 08, 2023, 11:34:56 AM »

Quote from: Kelly Hite on June 07, 2023, 05:02:41 PM

bdt-m, you make good points and present seemingly logical proposals.
For... events that you don't participate in because the rules don't suit you.
Witch is perfectly fine...here where it's all just discussion and opinion, such is the the reason for forums.
Rules don't get changed on forums.
Your obviously interested in participating in various carrier events.
Please, DO IT, the hobby needs your participation, become proficient with practice, make friends, and most importantly...have fun.
Nothing in the rules against that.

Point taken, goes both ways... your participation is needed as well. From my end, just trying to stir debate, interest and eventual participation. I have participated in every carrier event that I have written about, very familiar with each one, therefore to a degree I know what I am posting, even if it's just an opinion, and that's all it is.

Obviously I will be contacting my District representative on how I feel about current rules as well as future changes.

bdt-m · « **Reply #13 on:** June 08, 2023, 11:40:38 AM »

Quote from: Paul Smith on June 08, 2023, 07:41:20 AM

The BEST case solution is to replace the AMA Rules with a set of rules that will attract more people to the main events.
Then we won't have to create lounge acts outside "the rule book".

My club is mostly free flighters. They abandoned The AMA Rule Book decades ago. They create events every year. When somebody figures out to win 100% of the time, they abandon the event and make a new one.

"mostly free flighters"... that explains it clearly

. Now, we cant go and 'Dumm' up all events by changing all the rules, I for one don't care for the 'first-place ribbon' for everyone philosophy. The events have to be challenging, otherwise they become boring. The beginer or learning events are great, leave those in place, however; also leave alone (level the field like in Nostalgia engine bonus for period specific engines) the AMA events that provide a need for a higher degree of skill, this way you have a 'steppingstone' to a higher skill and a little for everyone to participate in and enjoy navy carrier.

Author Topic: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier (Read 958 times)

bdt-m

Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

david smith

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

Paul Smith

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

Bob Heywood

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

bdt-m

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

Bob Heywood

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

bdt-m

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

john e. holliday

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

Paul Smith

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

bdt-m

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

Kelly Hite

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

Paul Smith

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

bdt-m

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier

bdt-m

Re: Time for a Change: Nostalgia Carrier