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Author Topic: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules  (Read 1891 times)

Offline Paul Smith

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Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« on: August 17, 2020, 07:19:51 AM »
Somebody in NCS is trying to promoting a rules change to allow 2.4 radio in the three nostalgia events.

I oppose this scheme and urge others to oppose it as well.

I use 2.4 in my modern stuff and it works well.  I believe it gives an advantage over 3-line because it still gives throttle control with slack lines.

But nostalgia and OT events are about doing it the OLD way, which often results is lower scores.  Sure new is better than old.  So fly BOTH classes and let old still be old.

I also suggested banning left hand rotation from Nos events.  You can use pushers in all six Rule Book events and Skyray.  We need to let normal people have something to fly or else accept a Carrier category with about three flyers nationwide.
Paul Smith

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2020, 10:08:27 AM »
I agree (for a change)with Paul .if u let 2.4 in .it will take over. so for one or 2 new 2.4 ships u will out date all the ships already built. leave 2.4 for the modern class's

i have a profile scale ship with 2.4 and there is no way a 3 line setup can compete with it
rad racer

Offline john vlna

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2020, 10:25:02 AM »
Carrier is almost dead. Many people say they like the old rules. Electrical throttles are easy to set up, easier in my opinion than mechanical systems.  Many scale and sport fliers already use them.  Maybe they would bring some folks back to carrier.

Dick Perry is the person who proposed the change. He is also the one who started the event and has supported it since its inception.

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2020, 12:25:11 PM »
there is already class's for 2.4 fly one of them and leave the oldy's alone
rad racer

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2020, 01:39:22 PM »
     I don't think there are any oldy's left with the exception maybe Paul Smith?
Eric

Tom Vieira

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2020, 06:29:38 AM »
I'm all for allowing 2.4 in nostalgia.  i mean, guys run nelsons in nostalgia... hardly a nostalgic engine....

Offline Bob Heywood

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2020, 08:41:30 AM »
The Nostalgia rules use the 1974 - 1975 AMA rules as the basis for the event. These rules already have provisions for 1, 2, & 3 line control systems. If someone chooses they could use a "down the wire" electronic throttle and have the benefit of throttle control even with slack lines. 2.4 just makes the task easier, maybe. The classic models are really cramped for space so packaging the radio system, while not necessarily difficult, isn't a given either.

To T. J.'s point, everyone at this year's NATS ran Schnuerle ported engines in Nostalgia and gave up the 20 point engine bonus. The Nelson and other highly tuned modern engines just drive home the point harder. A classic single bypass engine is simply outclassed, even with a 20 point handicap.

Once the line is crossed everything is fair game.

Nostalgia really comes down to the plane and the scoring calculation.

I see no harm with 2.4.
"Clockwise Forever..."

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2020, 07:06:01 AM »
Somebody in NCS is trying to promoting a rules change to allow 2.4 radio in the three nostalgia events.



I believe that "Somebody" is Dick Perry.  Dick is the originator and the current "administrator" of Nostalgia Carrier, in the same way that Sig was the 'administrator' of Skyray and the Denver club was the 'administrator' of .15.  Pretty sure he is just trying to breathe some life into and expand the flyer base of the event.  It's not like there are National Records that would have to be retired.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2020, 07:08:04 AM »
     I don't think there are any oldy's left with the exception maybe Paul Smith?

HEY, I resemble that remark!
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2020, 07:15:57 AM »
...
To T. J.'s point, everyone at this year's NATS ran Schnuerle ported engines in Nostalgia and gave up the 20 point engine bonus. The Nelson and other highly tuned modern engines just drive home the point harder. A classic single bypass engine is simply outclassed, even with a 20 point handicap.

Once the line is crossed everything is fair game.

Nostalgia really comes down to the plane and the scoring calculation.

I see no harm with 2.4.

Not to mention, those engines are practically non-existent. so if the goal is to entice newbies, makes it much more difficult.  The 20  point handicap/bonus amounts to 5 mph on high speed, using the Nostalgia scoring system so it really doesn't level the playing field much.  As for 'left handed props', that takes an even more difficult to find left-handed crankshaft and severely limits ones choice of props.  I don't think that is a needed limitation either.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2020, 07:41:54 AM »
True, the 20-point bonus is not enough to encourage non-schunral engines.   I have some older single bypass engines, but most are to too worn out to use.

But if we really wanted to have an honest Nostalgia Profile, we would offer a 60-point bonus for engines that met the actual pre-1975 rule:

Stock plain bearing 36 RC engines with the factory throttle. 

That rule slammed the door on retrofitted ball bearing 40's with left hand cranks.  The original intent was to have an event where you could buy (not build) the engine.   Under that rule, an OS FP 35 would get the 60 points, but not the extra 20 for non-schnurle. 
Paul Smith

Offline C.T. Schaefer

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2020, 05:15:47 AM »
Love it. I could pull out my 36x r/c motor! ;D

Offline john vlna

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2020, 08:31:35 PM »
Love it. I could pull out my 36x r/c motor! ;D

Just the thing for my OPS 61, I KNOW YOU LOVE THEM TOO.
JOHN

Online david smith

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2020, 10:14:42 PM »
I would be for allowing 2.4 in nostalgia. There is no performance advantage just a wallet and frustration benefit. Maybe I will actually finish the 2 nostalgia models I started 7 or 8 years ago.

Offline Ron Duly

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2020, 12:28:48 PM »
This was my reply to Dick Perry:
H-m-m-m-m-m!  You are asking someone who voted for the 60 degree rule believing no one could ever come close to the limit????  Now we are considering radio control in the Nostalgia classes?  I reflect on the free flight folks that had (have?) an old time FF class that requires “period correct” designs but allows modern schnuerle (sp?) engines.  Then there are Old Time/Classic/etc. stunt classes that allow modern engines AND electrics.  How nice. Phooey on heritage!  On the other hand, I spent three days trying to set up a three line system in a new AMA Profile Guardian and have not succeeded yet!  I hate line sliders!!!!  The thought has occurred to me that a servo would be nice.  My three Nostalgia planes, one for each class, have traditional three-line systems.  How much fun would it be to install an R/C system in a Netz Guardian?  Don’t know and won’t try.  Maybe in a Mauler for Cl. 2?  More room there.  Easier in a Profile.  All that said, I won’t oppose R/C systems in Nostalgia classes.  Anything to encourage more participation!  Shouldn’t there be more than what is implied in 5.2.3 regarding 2.4 R/C systems since they are the only R/C systems allowed by AMA.  An exception might be for the old down-the-line radio system that was tried years ago.  Good luck!  Ron

Offline john vlna

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2020, 08:25:41 PM »
I never considered using my down the line equipment in nostalgia, but I still have it and could use it for nostalgia. There is essentially no difference between it and 2.4Ghz, except 2.4 will add more weight to the plane
John

Offline Kris Millard

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Re: Suggested "update" Nostalia rules
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2020, 11:12:18 AM »
Gentlemen,

I am new to Carrier and have flow only NWS.40 in competition. (actually won my class at the NW Regionals in first year I flew!)

That said, I have built a MO-1 for Profile and am having a heck of a time getting a three line setup working (ARGH!!!)
I'm using a Brodak bellcrank and a Roberts handle.

On the issue of 2.4 systems, Is there a preferred TX of the pistol grip sort that is easiest to convert?

I am looking to remove the radio components and build a new case that can be clipped to a regular style 2-line handle so I can un-clip it to take to the plane during engine start up. I have a left handed Nelson .36 in it so I don't want to just let it run at full throttle while I get back to the handle.

I know this has nothing to do with Nostalgia, but it's not like there are a ton of carrier related post with 2020 on the posting date...so at least you are all current, and not from 2008 or something...

Thanks for your patience...and hopefully help

Kris


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