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Author Topic: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?  (Read 4834 times)

Offline JoeJust

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Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« on: April 13, 2016, 10:41:24 AM »
CL Speed has had no problem using a "rent-a-pilot" for years.  How about using a "rent -a-pilot for the high speed section of Navy Carrier?  Some of us younger guys, some with only one working leg, some with a balance problems, or whatever comes on in modern maturity, might be more likely to enter and compete if they didn't have to fly the high speed portion of NC.  Sure logistics might be a problem, but what the heck. Most of these guys are not going to win anyway, so why not give it some thought.  Forget the Nats as there will never be this method instituted anyway.
Joe
I only enter contests so somebody else is not always in last place

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2016, 10:44:52 AM »
You'd have to change the rules (or make an event) to allow for high-speed flight, land, trade pilots, and then low-speed flight.  I don't see a problem with it, but then, I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool Carrier guy.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline JoeJust

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2016, 10:51:06 AM »
Thanks Tim!  A positive answer well received.
Joe
I only enter contests so somebody else is not always in last place

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 11:03:24 AM »
Two other things popped into my head --

  • Team Carrier, sort of like Team Scale only allow the pilot to be in multiple teams.  I know that this leaves both the high- and low-speed portion in the hands of one guy, but it would simplify the operation, and it would allow for proxy flying for those among us who can't run around in circles any more
  • Office Chair Carrier -- require EVERYONE to sit in a swivel-chair while piloting, with someone behind them keeping the chair pointed straight.  This wouldn't help someone with vertigo (well, except that you could chase the dizzies down into the "just short of vomiting" stage instead of just the "just short of falling down" stage), but it would help the guys with mobility problems
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 11:31:09 AM »
Some thing to try Joe.   Might have one young energetic guy fly high speed on all the entries and then have entrant do low speed and landing.   The low speed and landing is where the talent comes in.   Now if you have both pilots in the circle at the same time,  how would you handle the safty thong? H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 11:33:07 AM »
Or just set your plane up so that it doesn't go very fast -- if you aren't concerned with the score anyway, take-off and fly at whatever speed you are comfortable with then slow a little more and fly the low speed portion and the landing.

I certainly wouldn't want to see people trying to hand off the handle while the plane is in flight. 
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 12:21:37 PM »
The Builder-of-the-Model Rule went by the wayside.  

Now the flyer too?  What's left?

I visualize a cutthroat competitor with a fleet of models and a list of proxy entry names.  Thus, the ability to win all three places. 
Paul Smith

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 01:10:21 PM »
The Builder-of-the-Model Rule went by the wayside.  

Now the flyer too?  What's left?

I visualize a cutthroat competitor with a fleet of models and a list of proxy entry names.  Thus, the ability to win all three places. 

Good point -- if you wanted to have a 100% proxy-fly event, just reinstate the builder of the model rule.  One builder, one pilot makes a team.  Since Joe's purpose is to allow for people who are crippled up to still compete, this should "fly".

Another alternative that I can think of (I'm full of ideas -- or at least full of something) is tethered RC.  I know -- gasp, RC.  But this isn't to find the bestest Carrier champion -- this is to get people flying who simply can't right now.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 01:36:10 PM »
I have no problem at all with Joe's idea.  None of us seem to be getting younger and anything to keep people flying is good for me. If we give this idea some more thought there should be some way to make it work.  Maybe we can call it Geezer Carrier. 
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 01:47:34 PM »
So, here I was trying to be all sensitive and specifically avoiding the word "geezer".  Then you just belt it out.

Fine.  Geezer Carrier it is (well, if that works with Joe).

I kind of like the notion of doing it with RC equipment, or at least with a pole with a handle-holder on it.  I'm not sure how you'd make a good, portable pole-carrier that wouldn't weigh a ton and would stand up to a 100 lb pull test -- only being able to do the event where there's a speed pole would put a crimp on things.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2016, 04:39:54 PM »
Hey, Tim, I'm planning to fly Geezer Speed on Friday, so why not Geezer Carrier too.
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Ken Burdick

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2016, 08:32:27 PM »
hey Joe.
I'll fly for you any day.

Ken

ps

just picked up a Guardian to build for my Mac 60.....gonna make it old school

Offline john vlna

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2016, 07:01:42 PM »
Joe
I see your point, but I'll fly my own until I can't and then I won't. changing handles mid flight, with safety thongs and people a bit unstable on their feet just does not seem like a good idea to me.
john

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2016, 09:11:24 PM »
As long as everyone at a given contest agrees,  how about short tanking for the high speed,  landing,  and then the owner flys the low speed.  The low is the hard part after all.  For the high it probably doesn't matter much whether Eric Conley or me flies.  The low is a whole different matter of course.
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2016, 09:26:30 AM »
Hey, Tim, I'm planning to fly Geezer Speed on Friday, so why not Geezer Carrier too.

The difference is the element of pilot finesse in carrier, scale, stunt, combat, etc.

Maybe when you get old it's somebody else's turn to win,  as is the case in virtually every sport.

Maybe a tennis or hockey player could turn is equipment over to a proxy and compete from the grave.
Paul Smith

Jim Roselle

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2016, 11:13:40 AM »
How about something like this:

 Low speed limit, say 50mph. Or eliminate high speed altogether, just two or three high speed "demo laps" with no scoring.

Normal low speed.

Arresting lines have different values. Hook the first line, 100 points. Second line, 85 points etc.....

Sounds like fun to me,

Jim

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2016, 11:48:15 AM »
Hey guys,  Geezer sounds better than  Old Fart. LL~ LL~
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Jim Roselle

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2016, 11:53:41 AM »
Hey guys,  Geezer sounds better than  Old Fart. LL~ LL~

Almost anything sounds better than an old fart.... LL~ LL~ LL~  LL~

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2016, 06:07:59 AM »
In the good old days the best planes in the one-and-only class of US Navy Carrier event topped out at 120 MPH. 
Now all the events have slowed down and some have speed limits of 70 and 75 MPH. 
How much more do you need to slow it down?
In the absence of meaningful high speed points you can use a Bi-Slob type of plane and hover all day with even using a throttle. 
Where is the challenge in that?
Isn't a electric Skyray easy enough?
Paul Smith

Offline Phil Krankowski

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2016, 06:39:47 AM »
I read the rules so I sorta get scoring. 

(high speed/low speed)+landing = score

Sandbagging the high speed is a choice.  It allows more focus on low speed.  However the videos of carrier show REALLY SLOW low speed already...

Speed limit was mentioned.  How about bracket racing, with a target speed/time being met?  (sorta like drag racing) People who are less stable can fly slower.  closest without going over...

For the local scene having fun is more important than being nationally competitive, although the local scene is where people learn to fly competitive.

Phil

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2016, 07:10:50 AM »
I think the job of holding on for 17 to 30 seconds at high speed is less demanding than the body English needed to fly 1.5 to 6 minutes of low speed.
If high speed proxy flying is legalized, low speed won't be far behind.
New carrier classes are being created all the time.
If electric 15 and Skyray as still to hard, somebody can dream up a still-softer event.
Then the usual few will take that over too.
I thought NW 40 was 'posed to be the new easy event.  I have Cosmic Wind with the required stock engine. 
A far cry from a Guardian with a Dooling 61 or a Rossi 65.
Paul Smith

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2016, 11:15:19 AM »
     Comparing speed to navy carrier to me doesn't add up. In speed which I don't fly for several reasons one of which is the strength and finesse of controlling the plane that it takes is judged on one thing, "top speed". Carrier is  judged for take off (just touch the water after take), high speed, low speed, and landing. No comparison.
     Maybe if the CD or ED could figure a way to do it and announce this information in their description of events to be flown it mite be OK? I would think that the NWS40 event would be flyable for any person. That was one of the reasons it was developed. Take off in still air questionable (lack of power), high speed 60 mph in your wildest dreams (usually mid to high 50s), low speed can be done without a hang (you must practice), landing is as easy as it will ever get in carrier. So if you can do the pull test OK then I would hope that you could fly the event OK. With just a little practice you can get pretty good at this event and there are many time that the high score will go the guy that just had some good air while he was flying, the scores can be very close. Of course if Burt and Eric show up and there competition is made up of fliers that "maybe" are flying the event once a year (at most) then what were they expecting. Sorry if I offend, but if you put next to nothing into an endeavor why would you expect to get anything out of that endeavor.
     If you would like to help keep older fliers in carrier there is a key thing we all can do and that is call your CL carrier reps and ask their support for Rule proposal CLNC 17-01. This change would help all carrier people and their planes/equipment to stay in the game a little longer and would not make our sport any more dangerous than it is now. Eric
     
Eric

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2016, 11:22:36 AM »
Take a look at the ages on the posts here and all over Stunthanger.  You would have to say, CL has done a great job of keeping older people in flying.  The average age is high and getting a year higher every year.

Maybe if we quit making rules changes designed to let the same people win forever we might attract some younger people.
Paul Smith

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2016, 12:26:05 PM »
     Gee, thanks Paul. Am I now to think that we need to make rules to get rid of the people that have the nerve to work hard at the event they love and turn the events over to the people that don't show up anyway? Mystified in Nevada, Eric.
Eric

Offline john vlna

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Re: Proxie flying in Navy Carier?
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2016, 08:48:50 PM »
Eric
While I don't like the high pull tests anymore, I am a bit concerned about lower them because of what I will call the snap factor. If a plane comes in on the lines and snaps out the stain on the lines can exceed the normal pull in flight. As an example, I had a handle break last year at the top of the pull test( ~80#). Technically probably a 60 # test would have be ok given the actual in air pull, but an out of the norm stress might have caused an in flight problem. The pull test kept it safe.
The fact is as we age certain things get harder or impossible to do. I probably am done with 80# pull tests, but I also don' t climb cliffs anymore either
John


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