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Author Topic: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.  (Read 1003 times)

Offline Paul Smith

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Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« on: June 28, 2017, 01:35:19 PM »
I ran the 100 Mile LA-25 Race in 2015 & 2016.  This year we went with traditional 5 & 10 Mile Races.  The originating club of the event, The Toronto Balsa Beavers has phaseout the event and I will be doing likewise at The Brodak. 

I am considering a replacement event for 2018.  One candidate is NW40 Carrier.  If I go with this event it will in no way be involved with the usual Carrier schedule on Monday & Tuesday.  As with the previous racing events it would be a stand-alone demo event.  We might use the wood deck or sent up a flush deck on the paved circle.

I'm looking for feedback on potential entries.  The equipment would be any profile sport plane with an OS FP or LA 40 and fixed leadouts.  That's pretty-much all you need to qualify.  There is a maximum speed. 

As with Texas Goodyear & Toronto LA-25 racing, this is a outreach of a local event to The Brodak.
Paul Smith


Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2017, 02:00:38 PM »
I'm beginning to think Brodak has too many events.   S?P
I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2017, 07:14:08 PM »
OK.  I agree.  But this is a one-for-one swap, not another increase. 

I saw that they added Ringmaster/Firecat Stunt, bringing the stunt event count to seven, or twenty-one events if you consider the ability classes.

We stand at 4 Racing, 4 Carrier, 3 Speed, 4 Scale and 1 combat, for a total of 20 non-stunt events. 
Paul Smith

Online john vlna

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2017, 06:11:29 AM »
Paul
The carrier deck on circle 5 would likely be available. This year it was up all week. Nothing else was scheduled for the circle.
John

Offline JoeJust

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2017, 09:47:30 AM »
If Ginny and I make it to Brodak's again in 18 I will be there to fly Sportsman and NW .40.  I will now offer $50 as a prize for the lowest Sport .40 score.  That's right $40 for the lowest score for NW .40 (and I will not be eligible for that prize!) The "kicker"?...There must be at least 6 entries for the money to be given out.  If we can not make the contest again I will mail he money to the person with the lowest score!
Joe
I only enter contests so somebody else is not always in last place

Online Ken Burdick

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2017, 10:20:07 AM »
it's a fun event

Online Mike Anderson

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2017, 07:02:03 PM »
........  The equipment would be any profile sport plane with an OS FP or LA 40 and fixed leadouts.  That's pretty-much all you need to qualify.  There is a maximum speed. 



Are you proposing to expand the eligible engine list for Brodak?  As I read the current NW rules, only the FP .35, FP .40 and Tower .40 are allowed.

Or did you mean the Tower .40, rather than the LA?
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline skyshark58

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 10:40:33 PM »
For NWS-40 only the OS 35&40 FP and the Tower 40 (FP clone) are allowed. There is no fuel restriction and no speed limit. Any profile 300 sq in wing area or more airplane is OK as long as it has some country's military markings.

                                                                                        Mike Potter
mike potter

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 10:53:19 AM »
I'm thinking the current approved list PLUS any RC 25 (or less) with the factory carb.  40's & 35's seem to have dropped off the market.  But there are still plenty of good 25's that will do OK with a speed limit.  In reality, today's 25's are BETTER than the 35's and 40's back when the 50-year-old rules were established.  We are long overdue to make the move to 25 size.  This might be a good chance to give it a go.

Paul Smith

Online john vlna

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 02:36:07 PM »
Good idea Paul. I have some RC 25's, but I don't know if I have a working FP. That would save me getting an engine.

Offline JoeJust

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 05:19:27 PM »
I would hate to see the now current rules changed. The NW .40 is doing just fine as it was intended.  Why open the door to turn a very good event into a rush to find he perfect .25?  If you do, the best one will then be unavailable for the common everyday contestant, just like the changes in the original Profile class led to the problem that you have noted several times Paul. As it stands now, the FP .40 is probably the easiest engine to find. And more importantly, it is a MILD engine. I have 5  of them plus one FP .35 (One .40 NIB) and have never paid more than $50 for any of them. With a need to get more people into Carrier, I see no reason to change the easiest way to start a beginner going. I think having to use the engine(s) already limited to this event remain he best way to go.

MHO,
Joe
I only enter contests so somebody else is not always in last place

Online john vlna

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 07:43:00 PM »
Joe
I don't think Paul means to find the "perfect" .25. It is just that there are a lot of people with them, probably more than the older FP's. They are common in stunt and combat and that is where most of the Brodak contestants come from.

PS Maybe this will be NE carrier

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2017, 08:25:22 PM »
I've got enough FP 35's & 40's to cover myself.  But these engines (now the LA 40) are off the market.  In my opinion we need to use equipment that everybody can buy without hunting around.

I think requiring a standard off-the -shelf RC 35/40 plain bearing or ANY 25-or-less would be all the engine rules we need.
No sliders and normal engine rotation.  I don't even see any magic in 300 square inches.  AMA Profile requires 300 squares, but the competitive models are a lor bigger.

This 35-size Clown with an FS-25 works OK for me.  Nothing that can't be assembled from regular sources.
Paul Smith

Online eric david conley

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2017, 09:31:36 PM »
     So cutting to the chase you are not going to have NWS40 at the contest, your going to have a whole new event with next to no rules. I'm thinking that there are more new in box 40FPs sitting around on benches than all of the 25 engines in the hobby shops. But I do see your point as I was never one to look for engines other than at a hobby shop until I got interested in sport 40 and looked for them other places and found out there were many, many to be had for anywhere from $40.00 to $60.00.
Eric

Online john vlna

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2017, 10:32:58 PM »
I realize it would not be NW-40 exactly, but it does allow one to fly with motors they have. For example I am almost totally electric and have unloaded much of my glow stuff. I have engines and planes which could fly in the event Paul has outlined without buying anything. How about a Mitsubishi triplane  and plain bearing FOX. I have one.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2017, 11:43:34 AM »
I still see the engines on Ebay every so often, but the guys listing think they are made of gold because you can't get them from Tower.  If you go to swap meets and such they are there for a decent price  Why change an established event that is working in the area it was developed?  If Wichita's Shoestring Racing rules had been left alone it would still be an active event.    But, as with any event some one wants to win at no cost and will spend money to get to the number one position.  Now that I myself plan on trying NWS 40 some one wants to change it.  I now have two legal engines and they both seem to run the same.  Just need to get the planes built and fly.  This is supposed to be a fun event, isn't it?   
I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530

Offline JoeJust

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2017, 05:59:59 PM »
Right now, Sat @4:56 PM here re several .FP .40's on the Bey. Prices now standing from $12 to $70.  Tell you what, I have a FP .40 NIB with  a used muffler that I will ship within the U.S. free for $50.00.  PM me if you want it.
Joe
I only enter contests so somebody else is not always in last place

Offline JoeJust

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2017, 07:44:12 PM »
SOLD!  I MAY hAVE ANOTHER
I only enter contests so somebody else is not always in last place

Online Ken Burdick

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2017, 03:46:46 PM »
I agree with Joe. No need to make any changes to nw sport carrier.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2017, 06:34:02 AM »
Thanks for the advice.

I do not propose any changes to NW 40 Carrier.

If the event is approved I will use a new name. 

Would it be an offense to mention that NW 40 Carrier models are legal?
Paul Smith

Offline skyshark58

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2017, 07:05:13 PM »
ANY model with at least 300 sq in is OK. It just has to have some military markings.  WWW.flyinglines.org  has all the rules.

                                                                                             Mike
mike potter

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2017, 10:06:40 AM »
I'm not even planning to require 300 squares, therefore you will FINALLY have a chance to use the model of your name.

300 square inches was a failed attempt to slow down combat, racing, and profile carrier.  But in reality, the winning models have a lot MORE that 300, so the limit actually means nothing.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 06:50:23 AM by Paul Smith »
Paul Smith

Online Ken Burdick

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2017, 01:18:45 PM »
I suggest using the same name and to simplify the many questions regarding rules, ask F-L for the ok to use the rules and post:
http://flyinglines.org/rules.nwsport40.carrier.html

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2017, 06:55:52 AM »
No. I will certainly not run NW40 Carrier or a modified version thereof.

I would need to modify every paragraph (except paragraph 1) and get into a lot of hassle with them.  But the rules I publish will not exclude NW40 equipment or put it at disadvantage.

The great escape magician Harry Houdini encouraged challengers to use A LOT of rope to tie him up. A lot of rope has a lot of slack and it makes it easier to escape.  Likewise, lengthy rules have a lot of loopholes that our own escape artists love to exploit. 

This LA25 Sport Racer is now in the chop for a zero-cost repurposing to Fun Carrier.  The discarded throttle will be reinstalled.  The engine's loss of restart ability will be of no consequence.  In my experience, loose is good in carrier.  Thus a retirement home for no-pit engines.
Paul Smith

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2017, 12:47:47 PM »
are landing flaps legal in this new Brodak NW profile FP 40 carrier class
rad racer

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Possible Thursday morning event for 2018.
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2017, 07:31:02 AM »
If I get permission to run the event, along with a decent show of support, the only airframe rule will be stationary leadouts.
Therefore you could use a pan rat with flaps if you wanted to.

It has been my experience that flaps & such have gone by the wayside because winning models fly so slow that aerodynamic gizmos have no effect.  But you are free to try.

My Fun Carrier spearmint got put on the back burner because I was recalled to Combat duty.  I successfully served my state by preventing a Colombo Triple Crown.  There are forces at work that want AMA Fast Combat at The Brodak in lieu of racing or carrier.
Paul Smith


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