Never, Never, say "never" Joe. I think I understand where your coming from by your above statement BUT, I entered this year and got first which I'm not real proud of but at least I beat the guy that came in 1st last year and who happens to be my biggest competion as I usually come in somewhere behind him in all of the carrier events. "We" really don't have any business competing with many of the other flier's that do compete in that event but then "we" do like to compete. I flew in the event last year and then withdrew thinking I was doing the right thing but I noticed that no one else withdrew so I guess the devil made me do it this time? I would be willing to sponsor the awards for a senior S40 event but I think there would have to be some rules witten in to cover that. As you know Mike set up the rules to be so simple that there wouldn't have to be any rules and I think he got it down to maybe 5 sentences covers the whole thing. Funny thing happened while I was talking to a new competitor in S40 as he said he wanted to build a purpose built plane just for S40 that would be able to hang?? Right away I thought here goes S40 down the same road that 15 carrier has gone down and also AMA profile carrier for that matter. Ron Duly would like S40 to catch on down in the LA area and invited "we" to fly our S40 planes in two contest last year and I think he will try again this year with the idea of the event catching on down there. IT IS A GREAT EVENT I think, and wish it would catch on all over the country so we will see?  Eric

John,

You have that right John. There is this rather small group of fliers that love to compete in carrier and if they see someone having fun flying carrier they want to rush right over and compete, and one of them is me. You know we do have events for the beginner carrier fliers called Sportsman class. This S40 event is a new event that is very simple and is open to anyone who wants a super simple and easy carrier event to fly. Maybe it is to simple and needs some more rules. Those rules for some would be rules of exclusion and that type of rule is generally harder to write than rules of inclusion. I think there are quite a few would be carrier flier's that don't practise, they only fly at a contest and then they wonder why they aren't taking home the hardware. If there plane doesn't fly or place well they go back home and build another carrier plane and go to the next contest and guess what it doesn't fly much better than the first one. What they are missing is some very necessary "PRACTICE". To listen to them, those 3 or 4 guys that win everything shouldn't be allowed to fly in the events and that way they could start placing. Those 3 or 4 guys that fly so well PRACTISE a lot to fly the way they do in AMA carrier. This S40 event is real simple and wont take very much practice to excel in, but will the fliers in S40 do just a little practice and become good at flying the event or do they wont to allow only the guys that don't practice to fly the event? I'm thinking 10 flights should be a big help in being an expert in 50% of S40 then it would be 10% plane, and then 40% luck and weather. Will anyone try to do it? How about Sportsman S40 or turn it completely around and have Senior S40 so it is divided into separate events. Keep it simple stupid comes to mind.  Eric

Maybe a rule like the NATS as far as Sportsman,  if you fly the official events you are not allowed to fly Sportsman.   But, then again I have been beaten by guys with line sliders and hanging in Sportsman.   As far as any event that gets people to flying, keep it local.   Also if you fly the regular carrier classes,  do not fly NW .40.   I never flew profile until the powers to be let it be opened up that a person could fly all three classes of carrier back in the day.   Even then I flew only Class II.

An aside,  the Wichita group started what was called Shoestring Racing.   Using only the Goldberg Shoestring and Fox Stunt .35's.  It was popular locally, but when us outsiders joined in with our planes the entry level started falling off.   They also had rules that filled one page of paper.   Very strict. 

Eric is most likely talking about me. I asked him questions about getting a NWS 40 plane to hang without sliders. And as you can tell by his posts, you know how he feels. I was just asking questions and trying to learn from everyone I came in contact with.  I would count myself as the Sportsman, as everyone can verify.  And for not letting someone fly NWS 40 if they fly another carrier event or a AMA carrier event, that would get rid of a bunch of the local flyers.  And I don't think that's what Mike was thinking.  NWS 40 is the only carrier we fly locally, except for the Portland Tune-up. I like the simple rules Mike put together. The only thing I would change would be to loosen up the fuel rule change, to include somthing easy to find.  I hear it hard to find the 10/20 up here.

I think they wanted to keep it at 10% nitro for the older engines we run. I'd say give the oil limit a range like 20-24% or something.  10/22 is very common where I buy and the next closest is 10/18.

One way to resolve this issue is to have two NW-40 classes: Competitor and Sportsman. That is what is done in profile stunt competition. I would leave it to the honor system and peer pressure as to where each flier belongs but I'm sure that someone can come up with more formal guidines.  

Well worth some consideration.
Joe

As far as 2.4 goes, I hope the NW version remains 3 lines and a bellcrank. It is clearly the most popular carrier event in the NW, if it's not broken, don't fix it.  

Another thought: If you want to prop hang and use 2.4 technology, enter the Sportsman or Profile class.

I think the informal Expert and Sportsman class breakdown would work just fine.  Everyone flies together and the score goes on the appropriate class.  On the other hand, I have no hope of winning and am flying for fun and that won't change no matter who beats me so I don't believe anyone at all should be excluded.  I'm happy if I complete a mission without breaking anything and so far I've been successful in that. 

As you can see there is quite a spread of different planes in Sport 40. Most of them appear to be sport planes built from assorted kits new and old, a very few purpose built for the event. Marc Winz's plane was purpose built just fore the event but don't let his score fool you, as his score is just for the HS and a couple of laps into the LS where one of the stronger gusts of the day took him out. He had the highest HS for the event. I'm sorry but I didn't get a picture of his plane as it looked very clean, light, and different.

Nice pictures Eric. But as you can see by the scores it's my boys teaching me.

Hi Joe I just sent you a PM , Walter Hicks