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Author Topic: New carrier  (Read 1526 times)

Offline john e. holliday

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New carrier
« on: March 03, 2010, 08:22:56 AM »
On the thread about The New Aussie Wildcat there is a link to their site.  D>K Looks like their rules are simple enough to attract people. #^  I like their carrier deck, but they give no deminsions other than it is 32 feet long.  Only eight sections to build.  As much as I like our deck, I wonder, do we really need more than four cables for arrested landing.  Also their scoring is super simple, like in the old days of carrier. #^   The thing that caught my eye was no sliders allowed.  But, thought every one should go take a look even tho the powers to be would probably put down any proposals to allow some of the Aussie rules. R%%%%

This also makes me wonder what happened to the World Class of Navy Carrier.  In my opinion such a class should match the other World events except stunt.  That is 2.5 cc power or .15 cu.  Also for world level, no reverse rotation engines.  Remember this is my opinion. S?P
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: New carrier
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 01:03:55 PM »
I like the narrower size.  Lighter and easier to store.  I think our width is based on an unsupported guess in 1950 and hasn't been reconsidered since.  

As far as the number of lines, they have it right.  I think that as the hook drags along the deck, a lot mores lines don't really help.  Just more bags for somebody to drag.  I was the BAG MAN in Wichita and it was a lot of bags and ropes to handle.

Maybe carrier should be like a golf course.  The host owns the deck and they aren't all the same.  Just like real carriers.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 07:22:19 AM by Paul Smith »
Paul Smith

Joe Just

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Re: New carrier
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 06:55:25 PM »
[  The thing that caught my eye was no sliders allowed.  But, thought every one should go take a look even tho the powers to be would probably put down any proposals to allow some of the Aussie rules.

Doc, you hit it right on the top of the nail!  Also, my research says the .40 rule proposal is D E A D !!! My PCC committee is muling changing the rules in 2011 to allow .40's in the .36 portion of the contest. .40's are allowed this year for offshore entries in the PCC with a slight reduction of high speed score.

While I'm at it, we already have nearly $600 in prizes to be given away. We may even hit much more.  We have kits,wire, gift certificates etc.  Some major manufacturers are asking questions as to what we may like for prizes. Last years contest has drawn some attention from unlikely sources.  Looks like we may have to raffle off something to help pay the postage on the prizes.

Joe Just

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: New carrier
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 07:31:52 PM »
Are you telling me I may have to actually fly this year? LL~ LL~
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Dave Rolley

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Re: New carrier
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 11:03:17 PM »
I was once told that the design of the Carrier Deck for the Navy Carrier event was based upon scaling the deck size of an Essex class ship and that the 44" max wing span came from the same scaling.

Here is a Popular Mechanics article from 1946:

http://books.google.com/books?id=vuEDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=essex+class+carriers+arresting+gear+cable&source=bl&ots=0A4pF2dSUX&sig=ltqP3w1WP7mIUCoY-I4XbzxjFtw&hl=en&ei=JUSPS6rhEpDgsQO_lK23CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CBoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=essex%20class%20carriers%20arresting%20gear%20cable&f=false

You'll notice she had 12 arresting cable assemblies on the deck, spaced 20 feet apart.  If you add the 5 barriers ahead of the cables, fully 1/2 of the deck is devoted to stopping the landing aircraft.

With a deck length of 862' our 44' length deck is roughly 1/20 the length.  The deck width was 151'.  At 1/20, the width would be about 7.5'.  The current AMA Navy Carrier deck size starts to make sense.

At 1/20, a Grumman Guardian comes in about 3 feet span.  A Hellcat would bet rather small at about 22".  But at 1/12, it is roughly 42" span.  A Wildcat would be smaller.

Of course we can use any dimensions we want.  But it does look like the current deck size might have been based on something more than a standard sheet of plywood.  However, since plywood sheet was standardized at 4' x 8' around 1928, it could all be a chicken and egg question.

Dave


Offline Paul Stein

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Re: New carrier
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 12:58:26 AM »
Chaps,

The Aussie Navy Carrier rules are exactly the same as they were in the 70's. They are weighted towards a successful arrested landing rather than all out top speed. Back then J Roberts kits and HP40 engines ruled, today more powerful engines exist to no real advantage.

HMAS Seaford uses 4 arrester cables with the option of 5 if required. The size of the deck (relatively small by US standards) together with the 4 arrester cables makes landing a real challenge. In dead calm conditions (rare) a flapped model has a slight advantage although there are bonus points for a non-flapped model. If we find that over time that flapped models have too much of an advantage we can simply raise the bonus for non-flapped models. This ensures we keep the friendly competition tight.

Melbourne (the windy city) has very few dead calm days. On any given Navy Carrier comp day we often find that the wind direction has changed by the time the deck is ready for action (always the wrong direction...). Every well trimmed model has an equal chance !

Paul

Offline Peter Roberts

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Re: New carrier
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 05:07:31 AM »
Guy's

To add to what Paul was saying about our Deck, here's a bit more information..

Dimensions of the deck are 32' x 5' and it consists of eight 4' x 5' sections 6" deep. The base of each section is 5.5" x .75" pine with a 1/2" Marine ply top, size was largely determined by the need to be able to transport and store the deck as well as keep the cost down, we managed to get the eight deck tops from six 8' x 4' sheets of ply. The oblong holes in the side of each section are to make lifting and carrying easier, not sure what each section weighs but it's light enough for one person to lift although size makes carrying a bit difficult for one person. Paint finish is two coats of primer/undercoat and two coats of polyurethane paving paint. The deck is stored and transported in a 4.5' x 7' trailer. There's a few photos of deck in the Navy Carrier section of our website  http://clamf.aerosports.net.au

Being only 5' wide hasn't really caused any problems as long as you check your position before takeoff.. we're using a rubber mat as a marker so you can return to that position for landing, but there's not a lot of room for error and it wouldn't want to be any narrower. Length at 32' is no problem, there's plenty of room and it doesn't really need to be any longer. We're using four arrestor wires at present which seems to work well. Setting the deck up takes about 1/2 an hour.

Peter.

Offline eric conley

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Re: New carrier
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 10:19:00 AM »
     I like Paul's idea on the carrier deck. Let the deck be any size as long as its at least 5 feet wide. I would love to see a deck that's only comprised of 3 sections that are 5' by 8'. The middle section would have 4 arresting cables (or more) and would be equipped with a method of lowering the cables for take off so the entire deck could be used for the take off run. And while I'm wishing, each section would only weigh 20 pounds and would be self loading onto the trailer when the contest is over. Having helped unload and set up and then tear down and reload carrier decks for the last 15 or so years I've come to think of the deck as a major drawback to carrier flying.
     It would be fun to land on different decks at contests and it wouldn't have to change the scoring and it wouldn't make the current decks obsolete. Eric

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