Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing > Carrier

electric carrier rules

(1/3) > >>

Melvin Schuette:
Okay I will open the conversation regarding how to determine the class of a plane used in all of the electric Navy Carrier events is determined by the weight of the airplane including the battery.  To me this rule is a joke.  If weight of the airplane is the only determining factor then why don't you all any internal combustion engine to be used in any class of carrier as long as it meets the weight requirement.  To me the limiting factor should be the weight of the battery.  This would limit the about of power you would have available.  You would have to choose between higher voltage, but lower mah or lower voltage and more mah.

Mark wood:

--- Quote from: Melvin Schuette on December 08, 2021, 02:30:29 PM ---Okay I will open the conversation regarding how to determine the class of a plane used in all of the electric Navy Carrier events is determined by the weight of the airplane including the battery.  To me this rule is a joke.  If weight of the airplane is the only determining factor then why don't you all any internal combustion engine to be used in any class of carrier as long as it meets the weight requirement.  To me the limiting factor should be the weight of the battery.  This would limit the about of power you would have available.  You would have to choose between higher voltage, but lower mah or lower voltage and more mah.

--- End quote ---

I'm not a carrier guy but 90 percent of the guys I grew up in control line with were so I spent a lot of time around them and I get it. It's just not my thing. So the IC rules state Class I max engine size .4028 max and weight 4 pounds and Class II max engine size .6500 and 4 pounds. The airplane could very well be the same exact airplane with two different power plants. Translate this to electric. Class I is maximum weight 3.5 pounds and Class II 4.5 pounds. With the same exact airplane that would allow an additional 1 pound for motor, battery and ESC. On the face of it, the appearance to me is this is within the same guise of IC except that the electric has more potential differential in power between the classes. The premise of the objection, as I interpret it, is that shouldn't the rules state specifically the battery limitations? My assessment is that how the current rules are written pretty much do exactly that.

The lighter weight of Class I is a defacto limit on the battery and power system when compared to Class II. Class II by this definition will always be able to have more powerful powerplant systems. It leaves the combinations open to the builder pilot. A specific really good Class II power plant could, for instance be put inside of a good performing Class I airplane that was made a pound lighter and kick booty. For a little while. Then someone would take that airplane and put a new bigger powerplant in that new littler Class I airplane and kick booty in Class II. Eventually this cycle would reach limits and the two classes would reach separate but distinct stasis.

The regulatory options lets say restart with the two E classes being the same as the IC classes. Each airplane can be 4 pounds. Then how does the CD confirm the power plant? How would the definition be done? In free flight it is done by governing the total energy expended. That technology doesn't exist for Carrier at this time to my knowledge. Do it by battery voltage and storage? Using the propeller as the constraint would be a very good way of limiting the power. That could be done but it is highly restrictive. Especially when compared to the traditional carrier events which basically say bring it with a forty or a sixty. In E class if it's under 3.5 run in Class I over Class II. As a CD I'd prefer to keep it simple.

Tim Wescott:
I mostly agree with you, except that the 'lectric thing is still new enough that we're absolutely guaranteed to need some fumbling around with the rules before we figure out the best way to get reasonably-priced competition machinery that doesn't need a PhD to make or operate (which is, in my mind, the whole point of a rule book in any motor sport).

It's a start, and after a couple of years folks can refine the rules.

(For 'lectric speed I suspect you _do_ want to limit the battery weight, or the weight of battery, ESC, and motor taken as a group -- but all the rules that I've pondered for 'lectric speed just point to it being an event where you use up one battery per flight, just like top fuel dragsters need an engine rebuild after one run).

Mark wood:

--- Quote from: Tim Wescott on December 08, 2021, 10:32:54 PM ---I mostly agree with you, except that the 'lectric thing is still new enough that we're absolutely guaranteed to need some fumbling around with the rules before we figure out the best way to get reasonably-priced competition machinery that doesn't need a PhD to make or operate (which is, in my mind, the whole point of a rule book in any motor sport).

It's a start, and after a couple of years folks can refine the rules.

(For 'lectric speed I suspect you _do_ want to limit the battery weight, or the weight of battery, ESC, and motor taken as a group -- but all the rules that I've pondered for 'lectric speed just point to it being an event where you use up one battery per flight, just like top fuel dragsters need an engine rebuild after one run).

--- End quote ---

Yeah_Lectric Speed_ almost as cool as jet speed. I don't wish to tread too deeply into the rule debates although I could likely be caught easily in the speed vortex. However a maximum weight limit is a defacto limitation on the batteries. Well, the reality is that the airframes will self limit in a spectacular way themselves. Given a overall limiting weight, the weight bias will reach a structural minimum while that bias pushes towards the powperplant and eventually reach a practical limit once exceeded catastrophic failure will occur. Both Carier and Speed are performance oriented events relying heavily on the powerplant, speed being  Top Fuel and Carrier being Funny car  or the Reno Unlimited class analogs. IMO both should be regulated with the minimal amount of rules as necessary and the primary focus of regulation be safety oriented.  Placing too many rules early in the development of the event would restrict the progress. Eventually a profile class and sport classes will evolve. Let those take on the limitations and restrictions.

Lectric is The Way...

bill bischoff:
 I think the point is this: In IC classes, you are limited by displacement: in electric classes, you are limited by weight. You can use as powerful a system as the weight will allow. This is not the case in IC. Following the logic in electric, if I can build 60 powered plane that's under 3.5 lbs ready to fly, I should be able to fly it in class I.

How you define classes in electric is somewhat arbitrary. I think the simplest way would be by battery voltage (cell count). It's really only an issue if you try to combine IC and electric in the same event, so don't! Use record-ratio scoring if you aren't going to provide separate awards.


Bill Bischoff

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page