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Author Topic: EFF Carrier  (Read 3703 times)

Offline john vlna

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EFF Carrier
« on: October 15, 2010, 01:40:40 PM »
EFF stands for Electric Fan Fold. EFF is a technique developed by the RC community to build lightweight electric models using fan fold foam board. I recently adapted this technology to build a 30” span Grumman TBF. Although not intended originally for carrier I realized its potential from the start. It flies beautifully, and will hang even though no attempt has been made to move the lead outs to an extreme aft position. The TBF is made from 3/16” Dollar Store foam board, with some minimal balsa re-enforcing. A carbon fiber arrow shaft runs the length of the fuselage and ties into the motor mount.

I liked it some much I have started a second, this time for carrier use. It is a model of a Boeing B-390, it was just a design study but was intended as a competitor to the Vought Flying Pancake.

Power for both is the same, Tower Pro(TP) 2408-21 for sport, and TP 2409-12 for performance.
B390 Specs
Span 20”
Area 200
Estimated 180w/lb sport, 300w/lb performance
All up weight expected to be about 14oz
Control; all electrical through the lines with U/Tronics, with a Universal handle.

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2010, 01:44:09 PM »
Some additional pictures, for some reason they didn't post.

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2010, 01:48:13 PM »
Here is the B-390 apparently I am exceeding the size limit

Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2010, 08:38:02 PM »
John
I always use PIXresizer when prepairing to post pictures.  I select a size that is 600 x something or something x 600 to get the pictures to fit on a standard monitor.

One nice thing about PIXresizer is that you can place the new picture with (600 x 450) added to the picture title in the same file folder so you can easily pick the re sized picture to post.

Here are your pictures after PIXresizer.
Clancy
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 08:59:24 PM by Clancy Arnold »
Clancy Arnold
Indianapolis, IN   AMA 12560 LM-S
U/Tronics Control
U/Control with electronics added.

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2010, 05:01:12 PM »
The B-390 flew today. I used the sport motor and although it was windy I could hang it a bit. With the lead outs forward about like a stunt plane, it gets up to about 40-45 degrees. Normal rotation was used, sorry Paul no reverse props.  It appears to have potential. Attached are some photos. Don’t you just hate electric carrier. It works so well. Future plans are to use it as a test bed. An early change will be to add a Kline-Folgerman (KFm2) airfoil. Oh and some paint too.

Joe Just

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2010, 07:04:04 PM »
Come on John!  Paint? Now you really are going to far!  Next thing I hear will be your wanting to add rubber power for the first  8 laps for acceleration!  What ever happened to this portion of the hobby?  I can see what will happen,  special rips to Brazil to set up extra tough raw rubber to make even more popular rubber bands.  Oh the humanity!

Joe

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2010, 07:57:09 PM »
Joe,
The rubber bands are to power the wing tip prop which maintains line tension. However I get my rubber from Malaysia.

Offline David Shad

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 06:34:15 AM »
How cool is that...Kline-Folgerman airfoils are supposed to be super stable...never thought of using this for C/L.

If the wing can hold up to the rigors of Carrier you may be onto something.  Well done John!   There are some

light sewing machine belts that could be used to drive a prop shaft on either side of your center mounted motor

and they even have cogs built in so they wouldn't slip...OMG!!!  What have you started...LOL.
Big Dave AMA 80235

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 09:20:48 AM »
The pink foam is much stronger than the white. The B-390 has been re-enforced with carbon fiber tubes and plywood it selected areas such as the hook strong point. It should hold up pretty well. On the building board are two pink foam Spitfires, in 15 and 35 profile size.

Deltas are fun but in my experience they don't like to pitch up beyond 45 degrees. Cutting a hole might help, and I am also going to try a KFm airfoil. Right now it is just a flate plate.

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2010, 09:26:03 AM »
For those interested I copied this from RC Groups. It compares KFm airfoils to symmetrical ones. The interesting point is that KFm's don't stall. It may explain why my TBF flies so well.

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2010, 02:35:16 PM »
Well Joe shamed me into some paint, but don't worry I only used about a oz of waterbase R/C Acrylic. And no, you aren't seeing things. The line on the TBF wing is the KFm joint. Both have been flown mostly with the 130 watt motor. I'll try to get some Hi/Lo times this weekend.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2010, 09:37:36 AM »
They look great to me.  I have yet to a shiny warbird in the old films of the planes in the Pacific theater of operations.   H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2010, 12:25:07 PM »
Thanks Doc it is amazing how these simple planes can be made to look good with a little work

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2010, 06:32:25 PM »
An Update
After quite a few flights and a couple of mishaps the conclusion is that  these planes are a lot of fun, but would never be usable as competitive carrier models. They are just too light. Anything over 42 ft , .012 lines are just to much line. In any wind over 35 ft is nearly impossible. I was flying the TBF today in a light to moderate wind, and up wind in came in about 1/3 of the circle ever time.

That said they are tough. The TBF has hit a chain link fence, and the side of a house trailer, I was testing it, trying to set the throttle range, and due to my error it Free flighted off into the blue. Other than broken props no damage. Luckily I had the lines connected and was able to throttle down fast. The moral here is that when testing always tie the model down.

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2011, 08:21:41 PM »
When I left this thread a few months ago my light weight concept didn’t look to good. After some thought this winter I came back and have had some success. I made a set of .015X.52’ lines. I use two, not three lines on my electric carrier models, following the AMA protocol for Profile and scale classes, I’ve gone up in line size over a standard 15 carrier.

Working with the B-390 I have been successful flying it on these lines. I haven’t gotten any times yet, and the plane itself does not want to hang very well, but I am getting complete flights and I judge them to be about what a sport 15 would do. More trimming is still needed.

One problem is the motor. The Tower Pro has a very soft shaft and bends easily. They are easy to replace, but it gets tiresome. I will replace it with a Suppo type (BP Hobbies, RC Timer, etc). My goal is to stay under 300 watts which should be reasonably comparable to a sport 15.

Offline john vlna

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Re: EFF Carrier
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2011, 08:11:29 AM »
I was able to get some flights in with the B-390. I haven't been able to get it to hang reliably, but that may because it is just a flat plate. I am very pleased otherwise. The plane only weighs 16 oz ready to fly. With a 200w motor it is about the same as a muffled sport 15 on high speed. ( we still haven't gotten any good times) Landing, even without hanging is good, and being electric I can shut the motor off as soon as it hooks.

I have a more conventional plane (Seafang) on the bench, again it will be all pink foam.

More to come.


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