Author Topic: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3 (Read 4669 times)

Randy Snow · « **on:** April 03, 2015, 11:13:43 AM »

Here are some photos of my Navy Hawk F-6c-3... as the aircraft appeared aboard USS Lexington. Leader markings for " The Red Rippers" 2nd squadron. photos aren't that good but.. hey... The model:: 37" span. scale:1"=1.17'. powered by a Thunder Tiger Pro . 36. The Golden Age of Naval Aviation. These bips should be allowed to fly in nostalgia profile .... but it's ok. If you haven't flown throttled bips...you are missing out on a lot of fun. I have an all framed up F-11c2 for profile scale.. same size as my F-6c-3... but the detail will be as if it was straight up scale. What points I'll loose having no flying or landing wires will be made up for in flight. Has a full stunt wing and will be such a pleasure to fly.

john vlna · « **Reply #1 on:** April 03, 2015, 12:14:07 PM »

Very nice. Has it flown? I have a scale F6 that is very nose heavy even with a K&B 40 up front, typical bipe problem. Also thatlooks like the TT carb. If so it won't idle without some muffler pressure. I changed my TT 36 carbs to OS 4d's, works fine.

Randy Bush · « **Reply #2 on:** April 03, 2015, 12:34:49 PM »

That's a beautiful plane, well crafted.

Regarding your concern, " These bips should be allowed to fly in nostalgia profile ....":
My reading of the rules is that your plane meets the rules requirements of both AMA and Nostalgia Profile events -- if it has 300 sq.in. or more.
Personally, I think a great feature of both Profile events is that there are very few restrictions on design. That encourages experimentation and creativity.

Randy Snow · « **Reply #3 on:** April 03, 2015, 01:11:32 PM »

I have been given a lot of flak about wanting to fly this in nostalgia..... I built it believing I could .... don't care for sliders nor flying beyond 45%. If you want to "hang" do it for sport flying. REAL carrier type aircraft --( like what carrier modelers build)--don't fly beyond 45% while flying " slow" nor when they are landing.. if they do they are crashing. These models are suppose to be judged for realistic flying-- scale appearance while in flight as well as their general layout in dimensions-- in order to receive those 100 bonus points. And as stated.. the REAL actual carrier aircraft that we are modeling DO NOT fly beyond 45% let alone 60% unless they are crashing. So how can one receive those bonus points if they fly their models in a non-scale way? If you want to hang then forfeit the 100 bonus points. This will give those that fly " realistically" in an attitude that reflects " scale appearance while if flight" a chance to place.

john vlna · « **Reply #4 on:** April 03, 2015, 01:24:57 PM »

Randy
As long as it meets the profile rules you can fly it in Nostagia, just no bonus unless it is a published design before the cutoff date which is 1978 I think.

don Burke · « **Reply #5 on:** April 03, 2015, 11:20:42 PM »

Quote from: Randy Snow on April 03, 2015, 01:11:32 PM

I have been given a lot of flak about wanting to fly this in nostalgia..... I built it believing I could .... don't care for sliders nor flying beyond 45%. If you want to "hang" do it for sport flying. REAL carrier type aircraft --( like what carrier modelers build)--don't fly beyond 45% while flying " slow" nor when they are landing.. if they do they are crashing. These models are suppose to be judged for realistic flying-- scale appearance while in flight as well as their general layout in dimensions-- in order to receive those 100 bonus points. And as stated.. the REAL actual carrier aircraft that we are modeling DO NOT fly beyond 45% let alone 60% unless they are crashing. So how can one receive those bonus points if they fly their models in a non-scale way? If you want to hang then forfeit the 100 bonus points. This will give those that fly " realistically" in an attitude that reflects " scale appearance while if flight" a chance to place.

I learned from talking to one of the original writers of the rules that resulted in "hanging" the committee at the time decided that if they specified an angle that "no one could fly at" it would make judging easier. They chose 60º instead of the more normal 30º thinking that there would be fewer protests if the rule allowed angles totally outside a normal flight spectrum. Too bad most people will try to use the rules to the limit, thus "hanging" was the result. Not realistic flying IMO, but allowed by the rules.

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2015, 05:50:39 AM »

Hanging angle. The result of "unintended consequences". Nice bipes.
Wayne

john vlna · « **Reply #7 on:** April 04, 2015, 11:23:22 AM »

Yes but even nostalgia models can hang . It does have a slider but I was not using it. Can fly in AMA or Nostalgia

Randy Snow · « **Reply #8 on:** April 04, 2015, 11:25:44 AM »

When I started to get back into building and flying again, I was told about Nostalgia profile, cl.1, & cl.2. At that time was told that the bonus points for something that had been published was less then 50- something like 25- 30. I had no problem with this.((( the biggest problem with this point is that before the cut off date everything that could be modeled had been modeled for profile as well as cl.1 & cl.2---- maybe less than 1% ever got published-- just because these models weren't published doesn't mean that the aircraft chosen to be modeled weren't modeled. Case in point::: at the 63 nats my dad designed and scratch built & flew a 3/4" Wildcat with electric controlled throttle.{ at that nats I saw a 3/4" Hellcat-- really nice}. at those nats I remember seeing all sorts of aircraft modeled.. Japaneses, British and US Navy stuff that never ever got published. 64 nats dad had a 3/4" SBD with a fiberglass fuselage[ carved a mold so he could build multiples] again with electric throttle- and again lots of different models of aircraft and non of these never ever got published.{{{ Such a verity of aircraft modeled over the years and non never ever published.}}}With this SBD He went with the fiberglass mold and fuselage because he wanted to build one for scale as well which he did for the 64 nats- this one for scale had an electric throttle and electric retracts for the landing gear. In over all static in scale he received 10th. Then after an article in an early 65 Aeromodeler showing how to make a three line bell-crank out of using two... he with with this instead of an electric. Then in 66 he carved and molded a Boeing X-F8b-1 for carrier. I built one for carrier and flew it at the 67 nats and won 1st in Jr. cl.1. I'm in the process of building another Boeing- no longer have the mold nor plug he did but I know the size of it. And here I've been told by a couple of " carrier modelers/ rule stick stuck in mud types" that I can't enter this in Nostalgia because it wasn't published. I flew one at the 67 nats and won. In 69 dad designed and built a 1" scale Spit for scale again in fiberglass. In the early 90's he built Spits for cl.2 carrier. Burt has aquired one of these Spits and is flying it in Nostalgia cl.2 and is receiving those bonus points. This model was never published nor was is originally a carrier model..... so what the HELL is wrong with this picture??!! Why the HELL can't I reclaim some past with my Boeing and get those bonus points??!! And yet Burt can fly a model that was never published and get those bonus points.
My thanks though go out here to Don Burke and Wayne Buran for the history lesson in how this " unintended consequences" came about. From what has been published for profile -- I'ld rather design and build -- because I can build something others aren't building.... because there was so much built and flown that NEVER EVER got published.

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2015, 01:06:25 PM »

I find it helpful to read the rules for myself, rather than rely on the word of others. The applicable section of the Nostalgia rules (as published by the NCS) is:

5. Historic Model Bonus: A bonus of 100 points will be awarded for models which were designed, published, or kitted prior to January 1, 1978. The Contest Director may require proof of eligibility, which shall be the responsibility of the contestant. Proof may consist of dated, published plans; construction article, photograph or advertisement from dated magazines; dated photographs, and/or letter of confirmation of the date of design. Plans of unkitted, un-published designs must be made available to NCS membership. To qualify for this bonus, models must comply with the following requirements:

5.1. Modifications: No modifications to the original design are permitted, except as listed below. Any modifications other than those listed in section 5.2 which, in the opinion of the event director, significantly change the appearance or performance of the model as it was originally designed, shall not be permitted. This prohibition includes, but is not limited to, changes in airfoil, changes in dimensions, and use of moveable control surfaces not included on the original design.

5.2. Allowable Modifications:
5.2.1. Landing gear may be changed in length or material, but must exit the model at the original position. A tail wheel may be substituted for a skid and
vice versa. Wheels may be of any diameter.
5.2.2. Leadout position may be changed from that shown on the plan. Ground-adjustable leadouts are permitted.
5.2.3. Control travel, control mechanism location, and control mechanism may be changed.
5.2.4. Tip weight may be changed or may be adjustable.

So, the model does NOT have to have been published. You MAY have to have proof of eligibility. A simple statement that you have created a replica of a model you flew in 1967 would be acceptable to me as an ED/CD. Note that the model does not have to have been designed as a Navy Carrier plane - just has to be legal for the event as described in the 1974 rulebook and 'historic' as defined above.

All of this describes it's eligibility for Historic Model bonus points - NOT it's legality for entering it. You can still enter anything that fits the rules for the class you wish to fly - you just may have to give up bonus points of one sort or another. You can still get Scale bonus points and multi-engine bonus points if you otherwise earn them.

So the answer to this question: "Why the HELL can't I reclaim some past with my Boeing and get those bonus points??!!" is "You can."

Randy Snow · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2015, 01:21:17 PM »

Thank you Mike.

JoeJust · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2015, 03:07:57 PM »

How about this one. The picture taken in 1977. No negative left, my word only that 1977 was the year I first started building Carrier planes to fool around with. I never entered a contest with one until the mid 80"s or there-a-bouts. I did enter a "Claude" in Sportsman at the nats in Richland in 1989. Based on the one in the piucture with lg mounted on the side of the profile. My word and picture all the evidence I can offer. How liberal should we be?
Joe

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2015, 03:25:40 PM »

Quote from: Mike Anderson on April 04, 2015, 01:06:25 PM

........................
5. Historic Model Bonus: A bonus of 100 points will be awarded for models which were designed, published, or kitted prior to January 1, 1978. The Contest Director may require proof of eligibility, which shall be the responsibility of the contestant. Proof may consist of dated, published plans; construction article, photograph or advertisement from dated magazines; dated photographs, and/or letter of confirmation of the date of design. ..........

I don't think that going by the rules as written constitutes being "liberal" to any degree.

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #13 on:** April 04, 2015, 03:31:20 PM »

Oh, and remember that there are NO SCALE bonus points in Nostalgia Profile.

Randy Snow · « **Reply #14 on:** April 04, 2015, 04:12:27 PM »

does AMA profile have 'scale bonus points' if not they should.... that way there would be models that actually look like something. There once was a NW model c/l club that during the early/med 70's had a ' Golden Age of Naval Aviation' for bips ... I recall seeing a couple of photos in M.A. of some of the models- F-11c, and such ... nothing ever published.... but does anyone have a line on these models??
John Vina shared a couple photos of his nostalgia F-6c ... any line on where or how to get a set of plans??

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #15 on:** April 04, 2015, 04:45:58 PM »

Again, the best way to find out what the rules are is to read them. Here are the latest Navy Carrier rules. Note that Navy Carrier is also covered by the Control Line General and the General sections of the rulebook.

All the rules can be found here:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/compreg.aspx

Randy Snow · « **Reply #16 on:** April 04, 2015, 06:20:19 PM »

thanks again Mike ... I don't have a rule book.. if I did I wouldn't have asked... and again thanks

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2015, 06:53:08 PM »

Rulebooks are no longer sent out in paper form. The only way to get it anymore is to go to the AMA website and download it. That is why I posted the link to the AMA site -- it is available to anyone without logging in or anything special. You just download and save the appropriate sections. The non-rulebook events are available on the NCS website, which I will also link to as soon as I dig around a bit and find the URL.

Edit: Here is the rules page of the NCS site:

http://navycarriersociety.org/Rules.aspx

The one resource not there is that the 1974 rulebook pages for Navy Carrier (referenced in the Nostalgia rules) aren't included. I'll dig them up and add them to this post, and suggest to Bill C. that they be added to the website.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2015, 08:38:15 PM »

Another very well done model Randy, and you definitely pick some cool subjects. BTW, where are you located? Any chance of making the Polk City, IA contest in June?

Author Topic: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3 (Read 4669 times)

Randy Snow

Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3

john vlna

Re: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3

Randy Bush

Re: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3

Randy Snow

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john vlna

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don Burke

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Wayne J. Buran

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john vlna

Re: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3

Randy Snow

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Mike Anderson

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Randy Snow

Re: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3

JoeJust

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Mike Anderson

Re: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3

Mike Anderson

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Randy Snow

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Mike Anderson

Re: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3

Randy Snow

Re: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3

Mike Anderson

Re: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3

wwwarbird

Re: Curtiss Navy Hawk F-6c-3