Speed,Combat,Scale,Racing > Carrier

AMA Carrier Rule Proposals

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bdt-m:
Proposal  CLNC24-01:
Current Rule:
11.2.1.2.
The longitudinal (forward and aft) axis of the fuselage as viewed from the center of the circle exceeds a
60-degree nose-high attitude except for momentary inadvertent deviations. When the 60- degree limit is
exceeded, the contestant shall be notified immediately and must correct model attitude immediately.
Failure to do so shall result in loss of low-speed score. A maximum of three notifications
shall be given. The longitudinal axis of the fuselage should be level during the high-speed flight. The
intent is to limit the model attitude to no more than 60 degrees above the level-flight attitude. Judging is best performed from the center of the circle using a viewing angle as near as possible (consistent with
the safety) to that of the contestant. The fourth notification shall result in loss of the low-speed point.

Change as follows 11.2.1.2.
The longitudinal (forward and aft) axis of the fuselage as viewed from the center of the circle exceeds a
30-degree nose-high attitude except for momentary inadvertent deviations. When the 30-degree limit is
exceeded, the contestant shall be notified immediately and must correct model attitude immediately.
Failure to do so shall result in loss of low-speed score. A maximum of three notifications
shall be given. The longitudinal axis of the fuselage should be level during the high-speed flight. The
intent is to limit the model attitude to no more than 30 degrees above the level-flight attitude. Judging is best performed from the center of the circle using a viewing angle as near as possible (consistent with
safety) to that of the contestant. The fourth notification shall result in loss of the low-speed points.

Basically, the same except a 30 degree max attitude vs the current 60 degree. My opinion is a horrible rules change..

Proposal  CLNC24-02:
Change Paragraph 11.2. as follows:
Present Rule Wording:
"Low-Speed Points. Low-Speed Points shall be scored as 10 times the ratio of High-Speed to Low Speed using the following formula, rounded to the nearest 0.01 point: Low-Speed Points = 10 x High Speed MPH / Low-Speed MPH. Low-Speed in Miles Per Hour (MPH) shall be calculated using the
following formula, rounded to the nearest 0.01 MPH: MPH = 1799.28 / time in seconds per paragraph
11.1. As an option, High-Speed MPH / Low-Speed MPH may be calculated as Low-Speed Time (sec) /
High-Speed Time (sec)."
Proposed Rule Wording:
"Low-Speed Points. Low-Speed Points shall be scored using the following formula, rounded to the
nearest 0.01 point: Low-Speed Points = 100 - Low-Speed MPH. Low-Speed in Miles Per Hour (MPH)
shall be calculated using the following formula, rounded to the nearest 0.01 MPH: MPH = 1799.28 /
time in seconds per paragraph 11.1"

The proposed new rule CLNC24-02 will diminish the low speed value and increase the high speed value. As an example, if your High Speed is 100 MPH and your low is 10 MPH, with a 100 point landing and a 100 point scale bonus your score would be: 100 + 90 + 100 + 100 = 390
This really emphasis High vs Low speed. My opinion is this would turn carrier into a speed event.

Thoughts-opinions?

Paul Smith:
You missed the point of the second proposal.

Under current rules, a slow high speed will also reduce your low speed points, thus making high speed twice as important.

The proposed new rule effectively assumes a 100 MPH high speed for every entry for the purpose of low speed points. 
Thus, under the proposed rule, a slower model only loses high speed points and not also part of its low speed points.

Doing the math for a 100/20 score and a 100/10 score, the faster model still wins, but by a smaller margin.

Paul Smith:
I don't favor the 30 degree rule either.  I see it as an enforcement nightmare.

The effective way to deal with the all-day low speed would be to ban left hand rotation of the engine and sliding leadouts.  Then stopping, hovering, and going vertical would not be enforcement issues.
This would offend only the three people who dominate the event but open the door many others.  Between them they have 91% of the Nats wins in the last 16 years.  Enough is enough.

Bob Heywood:
Concerning Proposal -01,

A majority of the currently active fliers like things just the way they are. It seems that the people who didn't like the rule change beginning in 1978 have long since walked away from Navy Carrier or just fly against themselves.

in general, the intent of limiting the attitude to 30 deg. is to open up some options on how to best approach Slow Flight. Plus, it would be a benefit to eliminate the Center Judge.

The rule change process is in its early stages. The first round of voting ends soon. We would like to keep the proposals active so there can be some meaningful discussion and perhaps some viable cross proposals. You really need to communicate your opinions to the Navy Carrier Contest Board member for your AMA District. Comments on Stunthangar are not gonna get the job done.

Bob Heywood:
Concerning Proposal -02.

Under the current scoring calculation, Low Speed has an overriding influence on the final score.

Right now the planes being flown run between 100 - 110 for High Speed and roughly 5 - 7 mph for Slow Speed, depending on the prevailing ground winds. The intent of the proposal is to open up the window for smaller, potentially faster planes that likely won't fly as slow as the larger planes to be competitive.

We are going to test this proposal against the current rule with the times from the NATS, along with some archival data, just to see how things work out.

We've been flying under the current rule for over 40 years. It's time for a change.

Same deal, contact your District Navy Carrier Contest Board member and offer your constructive opinion.

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