Author Topic: 2.4 ghz flying experience (Read 10660 times)

bill bischoff · « **Reply #50 on:** October 02, 2012, 08:45:15 PM »

Joe, I can't find any .020 wire on ebay, only .021. Can you post a link to the item?
Eric, nice work. What's a finger head bolt? Can't see that side of the handle in the pictures.
John, I suspect that eventually somebody will either find a way, or make a circuit, that will allow us to have a "normal size" handle like yours. I don't know if there are enough of us for any manufacturer to get involved, but we modelers are a clever group!

Peter Mazur · « **Reply #51 on:** October 03, 2012, 09:17:07 AM »

"BTW Eric, how about a picture of your new handle? You can say it's Pete's if it makes you feel better, like they did in Model Aviation. "
I guess I miss the idea behind the devilish comment?

My handle actually works very well, although Dick didn't have space to give all the details in the column.
Pete

Joe Just · « **Reply #52 on:** October 03, 2012, 09:39:29 AM »

Quote from: bill bischoff on October 02, 2012, 08:45:15 PM

Joe, I can't find any .020 wire on ebay, only .021. Can you post a link to the item?

Well, here's another case of "Impending Senility"! I could have sworn the ire was .020, but I just went out and checked it and it is .021. Sorry! However I don't really think the difference will make any difference with the type and quality of Profile planes I fly. Experts will disagree with me on that one for sure,but 1 thousand of an inch wont keep me awake at night. As I read the rules on wire dia. it would appear that .021 is not illegal.
Joe

bill bischoff · « **Reply #53 on:** October 03, 2012, 09:42:52 AM »

The picture in the MA column shows a left hand, wearing a long sleeve shirt, holding a left handed handle. A right handed handle would most likely have the control box mounted to the other side of the handle. You can see how I came to the conclusion it was Eric's. Nothing against Pete or Eric, just perhaps a poke in the ribs at Dick Perry.

eric david conley · « **Reply #54 on:** October 03, 2012, 12:22:33 PM »

Bill, I was 4 fingers away from the real name of those "thumb screws" that I use to attach the lines at the handle. I've provider some more pictures with some explanations on how the handle is made.
Ist picture show the 8/32 thumb screw at the lower front of the handle. I tapped the aluminum handle and then screwed the thumb screw into and threw the aluminum part of the handle then added 1/4" maple behind the aluminum and put a nylon locking nut on the threaded end of the thumb screw. I'm thinking this might help keep the integrity of the handle during pull tests.
2nd picture shows the rubber bands that keep pressure forward on the throttle trigger, may look a little messy but works like a charm and my paper man gives me a new one every morning. Also you can see the trigger and middle finger stop on the handle. I first just put a throttle stop there but soon found that when flying my middle finger would interfear with my trigger finger when throttling back.
3rd picture shows the rubber band at the front of the handle that holds the trans down on top of the handle. The fourth picture shows a sort of locking tab at the rear of the handle that keeps things together at the rear of the handle and trans. See the 2 thumb screws at the front of the handle, they are 3.5" apart just like the J-Roberts control handle.
4th picture see #3.
5th picture shows the trigger slot I cut in the top of the aluminum handle for the throttle trigger. I did this before I had noticed that you didn't do this with your handle. Your way may be better than mine and MUCH simpler and would work just as well if not better. I had already made the slot and found it impossible to put things back the way they were.
6th picture shows the battery box above the bottom strap of the handle. I did it this way because I could and still get my hand in the handle. I don't find the weight of this handle/trans/battery box bothersome at all and besides having to replace the batteries once in a while I'll probably keep using it this way.
7th picture shows the 8/32 thumb screw and nylon locking nut. The steel seems to be a harder and stronger than I would expect for bolts these days. I drilled a hole in it and then took my Dremel tool and shaped the hole to accept the largest Brodak line connector so I could use all 3 sizes if I wanted to when mounting my lines.

Sorry I stuck the wrong picture in the #1 spot so this starts on the 2nd picture. Eric

Eric

Peter Mazur · « **Reply #55 on:** October 03, 2012, 02:01:06 PM »

Quote from: bill bischoff on October 03, 2012, 09:42:52 AM

The picture in the MA column shows a left hand, wearing a long sleeve shirt, holding a left handed handle. A right handed handle would most likely have the control box mounted to the other side of the handle. You can see how I came to the conclusion it was Eric's. Nothing against Pete or Eric, just perhaps a poke in the ribs at Dick Perry.

The hand is not mine but the handle is. The handle is actually a right handed handle. The reason that the control box is on the right side (the wrong side for a normal right hander) is that this way I can grab the front of the handle with the left hand and fly two handed. I find this pretty helpful and, for my Class 2, absolutely necessary.
Pete

bill bischoff · « **Reply #56 on:** October 03, 2012, 03:25:58 PM »

Eric, thanks for the additional pictures. Pete, thanks for the correction. My apologies to all parties involved.

bill bischoff · « **Reply #57 on:** October 17, 2012, 09:53:27 PM »

I couldn't leave well enough alone, and had to cut up my DX2E radio. I modified the plastic housing quite a bit to get rid of excess bulk. Lots of sheet styrene covered up the big holes, and a bit of spot putty and paint made it pretty. I removed the steering wheel assembly, and moved the pot to the other side of the handle to use as an auxiliary control should the need ever arise. I removed the stock throttle spring assembly, and made my own spring to hold the trigger fully forward. No more rubber bands! The handle frame is a slice of 4" square extruded aluminum tubing, which should be plenty strong.

This handle has a much better feel than my previous effort, but I won't know how I like it until I get to fly it. It was certainly more work than necessary, and I still think novices and beginners would do just as well to hold a stock transmitter in their free hand. We'll see how it goes.

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #58 on:** October 18, 2012, 09:16:48 AM »

Here is my conversion of a HobbyKing cheapo pistol grip mated to an old Fox handle. I wanted to use the Fox handle because it is a steel strap with all the necessary bends already made, plus the adjustable cable. It needed to be lengthened as the grip was too close to the front end to allow enough room to operate the trigger comfortably, so I cut the front end off, and added the 1/8 fiberglass PC board pieces (the green parts), which also saved the work of trying to cut a slot or clearance for the trigger. Then I made my own grip parts.

The radio mods included removing the centering mechanism from the throttle pot and mounting a spring internally to pull it to the full low speed position. Also removed the steering wheel, but not the steering pot. I made the wood fillers behind the trigger to give me a mounting surface. For power, the 8 AA alkalines were replaced with a 3S 1000 mah LiPo, in the box on the bottom. Did some testing to see how much transmitter time is available and it looks like about 10 hours on a fresh charge so would take about 75% of the capacity. So, plenty of time to fly as many events as needed with one transmitter.

Cost was pretty minimal - the transmitter/receiver was about $30 (including $9 shipping) from the HobbyKing USA warehouse. I have a couple of servos already but if bought with the radio, they would cost ~$5 each. The LiPo was about $9 if bought new, but by the calculations above, the 8 AA's would probably last all season. The Fox handle was still new in the bag, but I've had it for 25 years. The rest was just from various scrap bins.

john vlna · « **Reply #59 on:** October 18, 2012, 12:39:26 PM »

Mike,
Nice conversion. I plan to do the same thing with my HK radio. One thing you should add is a voltage monitor for the lipo since the TX doesnot have low voltage protection. There are all kinds, something like this would do http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6589__Battery_Monitor_2_6S.html
Lipo don't like to be discharged below 3v, (I never let mine get that low, ususally recharge at 3.2-3.4)
John

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #60 on:** October 18, 2012, 02:07:55 PM »

Transmitter has a battery monitor LED - don't know exactly what it monitors for, since the normal supply is 8 pencells. In any case, I've always got a charger with me and I usually have spare batteries in my e-flight box. Normal usage would be to charge all batteries (flight LiPo's, starter box, and now transmitter) the night before a flying session anyway.

I think I'll run the battery down on a motor just to see what the LED does. My guess is that it starts to flash at about 10 volts, since that would be 1.25 v. per (alkaline) cell, which is pretty dead. That would be 3.3-3.4 volts per LiPo cell which is about the 20% mark. It's very low drain anyway - ~75 ma - so even a pretty dead lipo ought to get me 60 or 70 feet of range. And even if the transmitter goes completely silent, you might have to fly out a tank (or a battery, if electric) without throttle control which would be annoying, but not a safety hazard.

john vlna · « **Reply #61 on:** October 18, 2012, 07:12:11 PM »

Mike,
I wasn't worried about safety, but aimed at protecting your battery. ESC's have programable cutoff features if voltage goes below the esc shuts off power to save the battery. Lipo's discharged below their minimum voltage are essentially ruined. I have the HK 2 and 6ch systems. On my 6ch the warning light goes red very quickly even with new batteries, but works fine. The 2 ch has yet to go red. I don't think I'll trust it with a lipo.
john

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #62 on:** October 18, 2012, 11:08:14 PM »

You guys are pioneers!
I was envisioning a detachable radio "box" attached on the left of the handle with throttle and other functions operated from the left hand. Detachable so you could fiddle with it at the deck during start, then clip it on the handle and attach your wrist lanyard and fly.
Man, I wish I had the time and $...

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #63 on:** October 19, 2012, 12:07:00 AM »

Quote from: john vlna on October 18, 2012, 07:12:11 PM

Mike,
I wasn't worried about safety, but aimed at protecting your battery. ESC's have programable cutoff features if voltage goes below the esc shuts off power to save the battery. Lipo's discharged below their minimum voltage are essentially ruined.
john

.
I do get your point, but I think that it's not really worth too much anxiety. It is a very inexpensive LiPo ( and HK even sells 'B-grade' or something like that LiPos even cheaper) that I made from a couple of 2-cell batteries, one of which had a bad cell. They cost me under $6 each, so that's where I got $9 figure in my other post. Heck modern LiPos are cheaper than the nicads we used to use in transmitters, receivers and motor drives. A comparable set of nicads (9.6 v. and only 500 mah) would have been twice that much back when I last flew RC.

In any case, the battery monitor LED starts to flash at about 9v, according to a real crude test I was able to perform, so that's about 3.0 v. per cell which is adequate protection.

Mike Anderson · « **Reply #64 on:** October 19, 2012, 12:12:50 AM »

Quote from: Douglas Ames on October 18, 2012, 11:08:14 PM

You guys are pioneers!
I was envisioning a detachable radio "box" attached on the left of the handle with throttle and other functions operated from the left hand. Detachable so you could fiddle with it at the deck during start, then clip it on the handle and attach your wrist lanyard and fly.
Man, I wish I had the time and $...

That part would be nice - to have the Tx available and still have it operate on the right hand. For that reason, Bill's suggestion to keep the Tx separate and moveable makes sense. I think for my own planning, if I need to move the throttle arm while starting, I'll just turn the receiver off and then move the servo arm as needed, then have the helper turn it back on once the engine is running.

As for the $ -- well, I've got less in this system than the cost of one 3-line handle (not even counting the cost of the bellcrank).

Mike Greb · « **Reply #65 on:** October 20, 2012, 07:43:27 PM »

Got in a couple of flights with my profile 2.4 model today, had a os46fx and performance specialties tuned muffler. Big difference between the sport muffler and the tuned muffler, was on song for high speed. Played with the throttle trim while flying low speed. Nice to be able to bump the idle speed up for hanging flight and then turn it down before landing. The first flight I held the transmitter in my left hand and flew with my right. With the model going a lot faster than in the past, I really needed two hands to be comfortable. Bill had given my his handle that he mounted a radio on, so I got that out. Had some setup problems and was running out of light, I was able to get a flight in with a suboptimal setup. His handle worked well, will be nice to use two hands on a heavy model.

eric david conley · « **Reply #66 on:** January 15, 2013, 03:01:37 PM »

This is a question for Bill Bischoff about the 4"extruded aluminum tubing he used on his last 2.4 flying handle. I got some 1/8"thick 4" aluminum tubing a couple of weeks ago and I'm still siting here staring at it wondering if I really have to take my very dull hack saw and cut a 7/8" wide section off of it or is there some other way to do it? It seems all of the local machine shops are now out of business around here so cant get one of them to do it, and naturally I would like to cut out 3 or 4 of them. If I have to use a hack saw do I cut each side by its self? I don't believe that I will have enough accuracy trying cut the whole thing in one cut. Please enlighten me. Eric

bill bischoff · « **Reply #67 on:** January 15, 2013, 03:37:44 PM »

They have a chop saw where I got mine, so we let power tools do all the work. The only minor inconvenience was that the saw wasn't big enough to cut all the way through in one pass, so we had to turn the stock 180 degrees and finish the cut from the other side. I certainly wouldn't want to cut it by hand. Perhaps if you had access to a metal cutting band saw... At least yours is only 1/8" wall thickness!

Avaiojet · « **Reply #68 on:** May 02, 2014, 02:31:52 PM »

Stumbled onto this thread.

Any changes, differences or improvements since the last Post. Been a while.

Charles

Joe Just · « **Reply #69 on:** May 02, 2014, 05:10:49 PM »

Here's my latest "store-bought" handle. A gentleman named Ralph Saxton is offering them on Ebey in the "Control Line Handle" section. He also offers a kit if you want to use your own radio. The handle comes with batteries, servo, and receiver for $139. Call him @ 209-551-1242 for particulars. He also offers numerous plans for Profile Carrier using the Ringmaster wing.

john vlna · « **Reply #70 on:** May 02, 2014, 06:53:20 PM »

One thing I have done on my handles is to take out the spring for the trigger. I originally modified the radio to have the trigger at low throttle normally. This is necessary for electrics to start, but it is hard to range set the esc's. I now take out the spring and friction tighten the trigger a bit. Easier to range set or use for glow to start at mid throttle.

I have a friend who built a neat handle without chopping up the unit. I'll try to get some pictures tis weekend and post them.

Avaiojet · « **Reply #71 on:** May 02, 2014, 07:05:27 PM »

Thanks Joe and John,

I'll be looking forward to more info.

IMHO, I don't think a unit with unneeded parts removed is that bad an idea. Looks like your efforts have paid off.

I would like to see the "panel" or workings away from the top. I would prefer side operation.

Could easily be accomplished?

I'll need a handle soon and I'm not sure how to approach this?

Thanks for paving the way.

Anyone else interested in a side operation?

Charles

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #72 on:** May 03, 2014, 08:16:12 AM »

Ralph Saxton has a website with his two handles that he has available

http://www.rsaxton.com/

The separate handle and 2.4 Ghz unit that attaches to the top of the handle is a great idea.

The June CL scale column that I sent Model Aviation will talk about the 2.4 Ghz handles and throttle control. Regardless if you are flying Scale or Carrier we are all going towards the same solution.

Fred Cronenwett

Author Topic: 2.4 ghz flying experience (Read 10660 times)

Joe Just

Joe Just