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Author Topic: Control horn wire bender tool?  (Read 5813 times)

Offline Dennis Toth

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Control horn wire bender tool?
« on: December 31, 2015, 08:25:57 AM »
Guys,
Getting ready to install an adjustable tail horn and need to bend the insert portion of the wire. Since this has a bearing I was wondering what method others have used? I have a mini wire bender that works fine for landing gear but for the horn wire I wanted a smaller radius bend. Back in the day I only had a vise with a nick in one jaw that I would bend into and used a hammer, that resulted in many cracked bends (but it was what I had to work with). Any suggestions better tools?

Happy New Year,        DennisT
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2015, 10:50:55 AM »
Use the mini bender, and keep the bearing tubes to the inside of the start of the turn.  It's what I do, it works great.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2015, 11:05:03 AM »
Dennis,

I have one of those pliers type benders made just for pushrods, but it makes an "L".

I use adjustable horns on a few of my models also, but use ball links.

Heat on that wire will give you a tight bend.

Charles
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2015, 11:37:20 AM »
Quote from: Avaiojet on December 31, 2015, 11:05:03 AM
Dennis,

I have one of those pliers type benders made just for pushrods, but it makes an "L".

I use adjustable horns on a few of my models also, but use ball links.

Heat on that wire will give you a tight bend.

Charles
sorry Chalres, do NOT heat wire in the control system to bend it, use the proper tools, a radius is required at the bend to keep from fracturing the wire
the pliers,, "ZS" bend pliers will not work to make the bends in the ends of control horns, which I believe is what he is doing, bending 3/32 or 1/8 wire will require some force, Tim has it right, just use the  bender like he says,,

taking the temper out fo the control horn wire would be, ,how to say it tactfully,, stupid unwise ( is that less offensive?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 12:58:42 PM by Mark Scarborough »
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2015, 11:55:24 AM »
Just for clarity, these are the kinds of horns that we're talking about.  This is from my "Fancherized Twister Build" thread.

1st picture -- flap & elevator horns.  Where's the hinges?  Keep reading.

2nd picture -- my home-made bender.

3rd picture -- What I did when I realized I'd left off the hinges.  This worked VERY WELL -- I think I'll do it again.

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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 12:40:55 PM »
Quote from: Mark Scarborough on December 31, 2015, 11:37:20 AM
sorry Chalres, do NOT heat wire in the control system to bend it, use the proper tools, a radius is required at the bend to keep from fracturing the wire
the pliers,, "ZS" bend pliers will not work to make the bends in the ends of control horns, which I believe is what he is doing, bending 3/32 or 1/8 wire will require some force, Tim has it right, just use the  bender like he says,,

taking the temper out fo the control horn wire would be, ,how to say it tactfully,, stupid

"Stupid is as stupid does." Is that a line from a movie?  LL~ LL~

I guess it's stupid to braze a control horn to the wire also, taking the temper out of it in that area. But it's done all the time.
 
I didn't fully understand Den's request. I was thinking of the pushrod which is why I mentioned the ball links.

I bend my own gear wire all the time, but I order my custom horn HDWE from Tom Morris. He hasn't made a mistake on any of my drawings yet.

Possibly Tom tempers the wire again after placing the horn on. Heat is required and Tom isn't stupid.

"Pointless," instead of "stupid," would have been a gentlemen's word of choice.

I just found out Tom Morris builds custom wings. I might have him do a custom wing for me. They require no heat.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2015, 12:56:28 PM »
Quote from: Avaiojet on December 31, 2015, 12:40:55 PM
"Stupid is as stupid does." Is that a line from a movie?  LL~ LL~

I guess it's stupid to braze a control horn to the wire also, taking the temper out of it in that area. But it's done all the time.
 
I didn't fully understand Den's request. I was thinking of the pushrod which is why I mentioned the ball links.

I bend my own gear wire all the time, but I order my custom horn HDWE from Tom Morris. He hasn't made a mistake on any of my drawings yet.

Possibly Tom tempers the wire again after placing the horn on. Heat is required and Tom isn't stupid.

"Pointless," instead of "stupid," would have been a gentlemen's word of choice.

I just found out Tom Morris builds custom wings. I might have him do a custom wing for me. They require no heat.
Brazing does not remove the temper if done properly,,
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2015, 12:59:32 PM »
At least with the currently available K&S wire, it air-cools quickly enough from red heat to regain it's temper.  Actually annealing the stuff is what's hard.  The horns pictured were just brazed and allowed to cool, and have something like 500 flights on them without a problem.  Presumably I did something right.

Bending it on a radius works and you can make perfectly good bearings.  I don't see any reason to try any heroically sharp bends -- I suspect that making them without cracking them would be a PITA, and the sharp bend would be a stress riser even so.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2015, 01:14:15 PM »
Quote from: Tim Wescott on December 31, 2015, 12:59:32 PM
At least with the currently available K&S wire, it air-cools quickly enough from red heat to regain it's temper.  Actually annealing the stuff is what's hard.  The horns pictured were just brazed and allowed to cool, and have something like 500 flights on them without a problem.  Presumably I did something right.

Bending it on a radius works and you can make perfectly good bearings.  I don't see any reason to try any heroically sharp bends -- I suspect that making them without cracking them would be a PITA, and the sharp bend would be a stress riser even so.

as Tim states,, a tight radius bend is NOT desirable you need the radius to prevent stress fractures,,  I was looking for a table or chart, the only thing I could find easily was the AC 43.13 repair standards for full scale, but its mostly about aluminum
but the sections on wood repair are pretty good reading for us who build with wood, it at least helps you visualize some of the reasons for certain joints..

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2015, 05:37:15 PM »
OK I ordered the Higley wire bender set that has a 3/32" bender tool that gives a fairly tight smooth bend. I got it from Tower it is a three tool set for small, medium and larger wire. They look similar to the one in Tim's photo.

Best,    DennisT
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Offline Walter Hicks

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2015, 06:20:22 PM »
Charles, when you post things on the forum which are grossly incorrect, fortunately there are people here that will let the others who want to know
the correct way to do things.So when you post things on the forum be prepared! And if the shoe fits then wear it.
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Offline JIM Nordin

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2015, 08:33:47 PM »
I retired after 47 years  as a refinery maintenance welder from a major oil co. Welding alloy pipe with a ton of brazing and silver brazing there is a  Difference so I have a little knowledge  of what will work  . I been a modeler longer than that

Over the years I have flown 1/2 A control line . To 20 pound 3D planes and I've always made my own linkages and hardware  silver brace melts at  about 1100 degrees and shouldn't take the temper out of said music wire . Heating to make a bend won't hurt the strength either one way or another .

Yes it will  take some  temper out of it but not enough to effect a control line planes or a 10 pound 3D plane . I don't repeat what I read or told I'll test it first . If you heat  said music wire to a bright orange yeah that to much . But heating it a dull red it won't hurt squat  especially on a 60 oz stunt plane ?

Jim
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2015, 09:39:11 PM »
Quote from: JIM Nordin on December 31, 2015, 08:33:47 PM
I retired after 47 years  as a refinery maintenance welder from a major oil co. Welding alloy pipe with a ton of brazing and silver brazing there is a  Difference so I have a little knowledge  of what will work  . I been a modeler longer than that

Over the years I have flown 1/2 A control line . To 20 pound 3D planes and I've always made my own linkages and hardware  silver brace melts at  about 1100 degrees and shouldn't take the temper out of said music wire . Heating to make a bend won't hurt the strength either one way or another .

Yes it will  take some  temper out of it but not enough to effect a control line planes or a 10 pound 3D plane . I don't repeat what I read or told I'll test it first . If you heat  said music wire to a bright orange yeah that to much . But heating it a dull red it won't hurt squat  especially on a 60 oz stunt plane ?

Jim


Jim,

Thank you for this meaningful reply.

It's appreciated.

Charles
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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2016, 12:12:46 AM »
Quote from: Dennis Toth on December 31, 2015, 05:37:15 PM
OK I ordered the Higley wire bender set that has a 3/32" bender tool that gives a fairly tight smooth bend. I got it from Tower it is a three tool set for small, medium and larger wire. They look similar to the one in Tim's photo.

The Higley benders look like mine because mine is copied off of theirs!
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2016, 01:44:34 PM »
Ok, the Higley 3/32" bender worked pretty good, you do need to have some length of excess wire to bend around the pins. It would be great if we could get some smaller size pin blocks for the "mini wire bender" as the bend arm makes it easier to bend short end pieces of control horns (maybe Jim Lee can make up replacement blocks).

Interesting information on silver brazing the control horns on music wire. Thanks Charles for bringing this up and Tim and Jim for giving us some technical details.

Happy New Year,     DennisT
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Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2016, 12:13:02 PM »
Quote from: Tim Wescott on December 31, 2015, 11:55:24 AM
Just for clarity, these are the kinds of horns that we're talking about.  This is from my "Fancherized Twister Build" thread.

1st picture -- flap & elevator horns.  Where's the hinges?  Keep reading.

2nd picture -- my home-made bender.

3rd picture -- What I did when I realized I'd left off the hinges.  This worked VERY WELL -- I think I'll do it again.



Thanks for the post and pictures. I was about to start a new build but backed off when I saw recommended parts like these that were no longer available. After seeing your post, I now have some direction on how to now go about this situation.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2016, 08:17:58 AM »
Here are some pics of the wire bender I made in my kit making days and still use.  I can easily bend up to 5/32" wire for the heavy landing gear I use.  Find some scrap steel and cobble one up.

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2016, 08:18:32 AM »
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Control horn wire bender tool?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2016, 08:19:05 AM »
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