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Author Topic: Where did I mess up my mold?  (Read 1003 times)

Offline Will Hinton

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Where did I mess up my mold?
« on: June 09, 2010, 12:36:21 PM »
Hi all,
Well, for only the second time in over fifty years of molding fiberglass and carbon fiber goodies, I really screwed up a mold!  I've used PVA mold release for several years with no problems, but this one didn't make it even close to releasing.
I had no problem removing the buck from the plaster mold, popped right out.  I sanded the inside of the female mold smooth, fixed all the little imperfections, and then finished it with Z-poxy. Well coated with PVA, then waxed and I thought it was ready.  This is the same procedure I've used for a long time.
When I laid up the glass, I cut my laminates, then saturated them while they lay on waxed paper, peeled them off and put them in place.  I pressed them in place, rubbing out all the bubbles, then let the rascal cure overnight.
The part is the cowling for my scale Tri-Pcaer, is quite large, and with a very natural release angle on the whole surface.  It was permanent, or so I thought.
I ended up breaking the plaster mold off, with at least 1/8 inch of plaster left clinging for dear life to the glass cowling.
I soaked it in a bucket of water over two days, then was able to peel the crud off with a knife.  When I got the blade under the PVA, it came off in large membranes with the plaster still attached.  I've since applied carbon tow inside in strips to further stiffen the beast and then post-cured it.  The CF was applied using Resin Services HTR250.  I have a good cowl, but don't have my female mold any more.  (Well, that's not quite true, it's still in my junk barrel in pieces.)
Do any of you have any suggestions on what I may have screwed up?  I sure wish I could still get the old Elmer's Slide-All for a release, it was fool proof!
Thanks in advance for the help, guys amd gals.
Will
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline jim welch

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Re: Where did I mess up my mold?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2010, 05:34:10 PM »
Will...you stated you finished with z poxy all the imperfections, heavy coated with pva, waxed.....I think it should have been waxed many times, then PVA. Jim
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Offline Lee Thiel

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Re: Where did I mess up my mold?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2010, 06:40:19 PM »
Sounds right to me Jim.  I always waxed molds at least 5 times, then coated with PVA.  Still I wonder why the wax by its self didn't do the job.  Could be the PVA first left the mold porous?
Lee TGD
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Offline Randy Ryan

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Re: Where did I mess up my mold?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2010, 07:05:26 PM »
Hi all,
Well, for only the second time in over fifty years of molding fiberglass and carbon fiber goodies, I really screwed up a mold!  I've used PVA mold release for several years with no problems, but this one didn't make it even close to releasing.
I had no problem removing the buck from the plaster mold, popped right out.  I sanded the inside of the female mold smooth, fixed all the little imperfections, and then finished it with Z-poxy. Well coated with PVA, then waxed and I thought it was ready.  This is the same procedure I've used for a long time.
When I laid up the glass, I cut my laminates, then saturated them while they lay on waxed paper, peeled them off and put them in place.  I pressed them in place, rubbing out all the bubbles, then let the rascal cure overnight.
The part is the cowling for my scale Tri-Pcaer, is quite large, and with a very natural release angle on the whole surface.  It was permanent, or so I thought.
I ended up breaking the plaster mold off, with at least 1/8 inch of plaster left clinging for dear life to the glass cowling.
I soaked it in a bucket of water over two days, then was able to peel the crud off with a knife.  When I got the blade under the PVA, it came off in large membranes with the plaster still attached.  I've since applied carbon tow inside in strips to further stiffen the beast and then post-cured it.  The CF was applied using Resin Services HTR250.  I have a good cowl, but don't have my female mold any more.  (Well, that's not quite true, it's still in my junk barrel in pieces.)
Do any of you have any suggestions on what I may have screwed up?  I sure wish I could still get the old Elmer's Slide-All for a release, it was fool proof!
Thanks in advance for the help, guys amd gals.
Will

Will,

If its any consolation I had the same thing happen to me on a pair of wheel panys. I tried several times and the last time I actually warmed ther mold and saturated it with parafin, would you believe it!?? I could NOT remove my parts. I finally gave up and carved them.
Randy Ryan <><
AMA 8500
SAM 36 BO all my own M's

Offline TDM

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Re: Where did I mess up my mold?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2010, 08:04:26 PM »
You said that you PVA the mold then waxed it. I think you had it backwards and there is the mess coming from.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline jim welch

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Re: Where did I mess up my mold?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2010, 08:11:42 PM »
Lee is correct in the porosity of the pva letting the wax go away from the pores with the heat of curing.5 to 6 coats of wax polished to the mold followed by PVA,preferably sprayed is a sure fire winner 99 percent of the time.Part all wax is the best but good ole bowling alley wax from the grocery store (johnsons) has turned out thousands of parts for me with many resins. Jim
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Where did I mess up my mold?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2010, 02:35:02 PM »
Aha!  so I got it backwards.  That's a first for me on this particular task, but certainly not the first ever!!! 
Thanks so much, guys, when I do the next one I'll get it in the right sequence.  What amazes me is I'm pretty sure I've always used this sequence before!  Of course, these are by far the largest parts I've done, approxamately 9" deep and 18" around, so there would have been MUCH MORE heat generated during the cure.
Now I can't wait to do the next Tri-Pacer cowl!  (This one is for fun scale, just to prove out some of my design, the next will be for FAI or AMA precision scale.)
Randy R., I've started carving all my pants and then covering them with CF, then I hollow them out even more.  They're holding up well, with over a thousand flights on my #1 Crosswind, most of those in grass.)
Thanks again guys!
Blessings,
Will
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com


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