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Author Topic: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes  (Read 2550 times)

Offline mccoy40

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Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« on: July 12, 2007, 12:38:10 PM »
All,
Recently purchased a whole bunch of wheels an landing gears, etc. in a big grab bag box.

Some of the wheels are held on by 5/32" (?) collars and the set screw holding the collar is larger than the Allens I have for my wheel collars. Normally I use 3/32 and 1/8 inch collars from dumas, goldberg, etc.

These set screws are too large for the ones I have - i tried a no.2  allen and it is too large.

Is there a standard allen in between the number 2 and the small one I get with the wheel collars ? Can I purchase it somewhere?

 #^   >:(   
Joseph Meyer
Philadelphia, PA

Offline Tom Perry

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2007, 01:08:36 PM »
You may be dealing with a metric size.  You should be able to find a set of metric wrenches or a mixed set in a roll up pouch at almost any halfway decent hardware store or even in a Sears tool department.  The cost should be no more than a few dollars.   AP^
Tight lines,

Tom Perry
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2007, 02:23:43 PM »
Or, you could bypass the whole thing. Pat Johnston showed me the slickest way to make your own wheel collars.

I'll have to post a pic when I get home, but the process is really easy. Take some piano wire (maybe .021 to .027). You are basically making a spring. I used a wire post mayber .002 smaller than the size I needed for the collar. I drilled a hole that size in a chunk of steal and knocked in a the post. Then drilled a second hole for another post. The second post is a lot shorter. Clip the .021 (the size I used) around the shorter post and start wrapping it around the taller one untill you get maybe 5 or 6 winds. The clip off the excess wire. You can sort of screw the retainer onto the axel to retail the wheel. The little piece that you clipped to the shorter post can have a little loop spun in to give you a sort of handle to spin it on and off an axel. Pretty easy to put on and take off that way and it stays put once it's on there. This is a lot harder to describe that to do.
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 Randy Powell

Offline mccoy40

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2007, 06:47:24 AM »
I'll check the metrics out - that is what i was thinking.

Randy that is cool. I'll have to try that - I personally have switched over to Washers and JBweld - it's cheaper and more permanent than wheel collars.

I've got a dozen or so wheels that are on an axle right now that I'm trying to get off. I was hoping to keep all of the stuff collars and landing gears but if I have to I'll just get the dremel out and cut the axle at the collar to get the wheels off.

 ~> 
Joseph Meyer
Philadelphia, PA

Offline Glen Wearden

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2007, 07:30:23 AM »
Randy, that is really a neat idea.  Do you put a washer between the wheel and the collar?  I've seen springs in various sizes in auto parts stores; maybe we could take the landing gear wire in and see if we could find the right size.  Then one spring, depending on length could be cut up to make quite a few collars.  Or, am I dreaming?  Glen
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2007, 08:36:19 AM »
I have found that, for some reason, it is easy to cause the allen wrench (especially cheap, soft wrenches) to slip inside the set screw, thereby deforming the socket just enough that the proper allen wrench just won't bite enough to loosen the really tight set screws.

In most of those cases, I have also found that if I have a Torx wrench of the right size, I can drive the Torx into the set screw socket and get the little thing right out.

Cheers,
Jim 
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Offline Glen Wearden

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2007, 08:56:24 AM »
I'm assembling a Tower Hobbies "Kaos", right now, and they use little phillips head (probably JIS) set screws for their wheel collars.  They're a lot easier to use (and keep track of) than the little allen head jobbies.  Of course, these are for the larger (4mm) landing gear wire.  With a little thread locker, they seem to be pretty secure.  I still like the idea of the spring type.   Glen
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2007, 10:10:01 AM »
Pat Johnston uses them on 60 sized planes. They have a sort of arm left on them that allows you to move the spring against the tension and they just spin off. It's really pretty cool. I suppose you could use a pre-made spring if it was heavy enough, but once you have the jig, they are very, very easy to make.
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2007, 05:18:11 PM »
Wheel collars typically use a 4/40 set screw.  I bought a quantity of 1/8" long 4/40 panhead screws and use them in place of the sockethead setscrews.  No worries about needing a special wrench, or stripping out the hex so you can't get them off.
Those who have bought my kits have seen them.

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Offline Keith Spriggs

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2007, 11:05:47 PM »
If you wind your own "springs" and you make a right hand and a left hand twist to them and install them on the proper side the rotation of the wheel will tend to tighten the spring as it rotates. Probably overkill, but no need to take a chance.With conventional retainers  I find that if I grind a notch in the end of the axle to receive the set screw they stay on better. Even if the setscrew loosens slightly the retainer will not come off.

Offline Rudy Taube

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2007, 04:27:49 PM »
The spring idea sounds good but I like the looks of the bullet style wheel collars from UHP. If you do use standard wheel collars, some are already 4-40, but if not; then you may want to drill and tap the holes for 4-40 x 1/4" allen bolts. I find the little tiny allens that come with the standard wheel collars a real PITA, and I throw them away. Ray's idea of using a common screw head has the benefit of not requiring a special tool (allen wrench) but I have always preferred the solid feel of a 4-40 allen. 

For this use, not all allen bolts are made alike. The ones with the concave shape on the end of the bolt are the best. They have a better bite on the LG rod. This, combined with a small amount of Blue Locktite, will insure a solid wheel attachment. I think Goldberg makes the concave allens?

But, hidden by wheel pants, the springs sure do sound cool, and KIS.  y1

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Offline Bill Heher

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2007, 12:08:52 AM »
This may be old news to some of you- but if the allen head socket in a screw gets rounded out or stripped put a dab of valve grinding compound or toothpaste in the hole, then try the wrench again.  The abrasive in the compound/ toothpaste will allow the wrench to grab with more bite and you can usually back the screw out. Then throw it away and get a new one. This also works on phillips ( reed and prince) and standard slot screws if needed.
Bill Heher
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2007, 06:21:52 AM »
Good tip, Bill, thanks, I hadn't heard that before.  Always learning something new here.

I find the cheap-o wrench itself rounds off rather than the screw socket.  I cut about 1/8" off the tip of the wrench and use it some more; discard it when finally too short. (I know, a "real" allen wrench won't do that.)

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Offline tom hampshire

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Re: Wheel collars and the set screw - ? are there two sizes
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2007, 07:37:05 AM »
      After nagging problems with any and all threaded collars, I finally asked some geezers how to hold wheels on... The old school method is to solder a washer on the axle, after sanding all surfaces bright and clean.  The twist is to grind a small notch with a Dremel cutoff wheel just outside the edge of the retainer washer, about halfway through the wire diameter.  Pull some fine wire through a folded piece of sandpaper to clean it, then wire wrap the axle  through the notch and around the other side of the axle.  Keep it small.  Solder the retainer washer, axle and wire wrap all together, and you have a wheel which will not come off.  Thanks to the late Augie Buffalano for this one.  Tom Hampshire


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