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Author Topic: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.  (Read 7951 times)

Offline RknRusty

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The outboard wing is broken off, leaving the #1 rib partially broken and bellcrank platform and controls intact.
Outboard 1

Outboard 2



The inboard wing is only broken and somewhat displaced at the TE root along with some sheeting and the first rib. Its fillet is almost completely intact along most of the root.
Inboard


Would you cut the inboard wing out and rebuild the two parts on the glass, rejoining them with all new center sheeting? Then clean out the fuselage's cutout and slide it back in? Or would you try to repair and rejoin the outboard wing back into the fuse, joining the spars, LE and TE with the inboard wing still in place?

My first inclination is to rebuild the two halves on the glass, clean the fuselage out and re-install it. I've had advice supporting both ideas. What's y'all's take on it? This is the best flying plane I've ever had. Too good to trash.

It was a gusty day and I lost the handle. Doing loops on the lanyard when I recovered the handle. Backwards. And didn't adapt to the reversed controls in time to save it.

Thanks for any tips.  
Rusty
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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OUCH
if it were me, I would likely take it out of the fuse and build it jigged up again then reinstall it in the fuse. Its a fair bit of work and lots of risk of misalignment. I think I would be tempted to strip the whole wing back down to bare balsa for inspection too. Might consider it more efficient to build a new one?
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline RknRusty

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OUCH
if it were me, I would likely take it out of the fuse and build it jigged up again then reinstall it in the fuse. Its a fair bit of work and lots of risk of misalignment. I think I would be tempted to strip the whole wing back down to bare balsa for inspection too. Might consider it more efficient to build a new one?
Yeah I thought of a new one too. It's a Walter kit, so I hate to bother him right now. But I could do it from scratch. Some of the parts are pre-built too, like the wingtips' weight box and Leadout guide.
Thanks
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Rusty I'd surely pull the wing out of the fuse.  But I doubt I'd try to piece it back together.  There's too much damage in the worst area.  The repair will take about as long as just tracing the parts and building a new wing altogether.  A new wing will be lighter too.  It looks to be a simple wing you could build in two or three days.

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Offline Don Jenkins

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The best thing to do is to buy the Fancherized Twister I have hanging on my garage wall!

Don

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Install a foam Twister wing from Phil Cartier. 
Cheap and easy and durable.
You can get a box of 4 and make a fleet.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline RknRusty

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Hey, thanks, guys. Good ideas coming from several directions. Building a whole new wing sounds like the best idea, but I didn't know Phil made a foam one. Don, I got your email, and another one from a friend in Texas who's apparently already spoken with Walter about it this morning. I was hesitant to bother Walter with this, my broken wing being petty, compared to what he's been going through lately.
I appreciate your replies, and I'll sort it out this evening and decide what I'm going to do. Will keep y'all posted.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Online Brent Williams

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Hey, thanks, guys. Good ideas coming from several directions. Building a whole new wing sounds like the best idea, but I didn't know Phil made a foam one. ..

Yep, Phil offers foam Twister wing cores.  You just have to call him and ask for them, as I don't think they are on his order form. 
Uses an external 1/8" x 3/8" spar, no sheeting needed.
I ordered a box of them earlier this year.  Very nice option for a quick build.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline RknRusty

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Brent, that's tempting. Especially the "no sheeting needed," because I've never worked with foam before. It would be back in the air quick too.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Offline Tim Wescott

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I second what Mark says, including the part about stripping the covering back and taking a look - possibly before deciding to take the plane apart.

Most of Phil's wings make for a quick build, but they're designed for an external bellcrank.  If you want the plane to hang correctly from the leadouts, you need to move the wing up or down.  They're super-nice wings for their purpose -- but you need to design the plane around the wing.

I think the wing for his Giles stunter is designed for an internal bellcrank, but I dunno prices or sizes or anything.
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Online Brent Williams

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2016, 11:30:22 AM »
You would just mount the bellcrank to either a center rib on a tab, or suspended.  Or, you can mount the bellcrank to the spar web.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/how-do-you-mount-belcrank-in-a-foam-wing-core/

Bob Hunt examples:



Igor Burger example:


Sorry if this is a thread hijack.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2016, 11:49:17 AM »
You would just mount the bellcrank to either a center rib on a tab, or suspended.  Or, you can mount the bellcrank to the spar web.

Are Phil's Twister wing cores built that way?  That certainly doesn't match the Psycho cores that I have.
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Online Brent Williams

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2016, 12:12:32 PM »
Hi Tim, yes they come un-cored like the Psycho.  It is a pretty simple process to make the internal accommodation for the leadouts.
Phil can also add the holes for the leadouts if asked, or you can push a hot piece of round stock (steel, copper, aluminum, ect) through the wing for leadouts to pass through.

I would look at the method used on the "test-bed twin" that Bob Hunt built.  It used solid foam core wings with no sheeting other than .02oz/yd Carbon Fiber applied with water thinned Tite-Bond.  He refers to it as the "lost sheeting" method.  Add a layer of SLC film on top to fuel proof it, and it should be good to go.

I would venture a guess that a foam wing would require fewer flap tweaks than the built up version of the twister wing over time and as weather changes.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/new-electric-twin-project-back-on-track/550/



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Online Brett Buck

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2016, 02:07:15 PM »
I would look at the method used on the "test-bed twin" that Bob Hunt built.  It used solid foam core wings with no sheeting other than .02oz/yd Carbon Fiber applied with water thinned Tite-Bond.  He refers to it as the "lost sheeting" method.

   Which is in turn very very close to what Ron St. Jean described as the "Structureless Foam Composite" technique back in the 70's. I built several airplanes this way, and they were completely functional, although there's really no good way to finish them. Of course it used silkspan, not carbon fiber mat.

  St. Jean added some Knox gelatin to the glue/water mix to seal it up better.

    Brett

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2016, 06:49:06 PM »
With a box of those wings , you could do it as a Twister BIPLANE , to solve the lead out problem ,  and have a spare pair for another .  S?P

If thers lolts of splits & cracks in the break , it makes repair a bit awkward , & weighty .

But if one was a 10 year old financed by a paper run , youd probly go that way . economics  :-\ .
Giving things a good lever around , youll see if to much has turned to mush .

IF you did , chopping a few pine blocks / strips , to support the spar & the root & tips , and the t e ,
while holding the fuse clear of the bench, preglueing BOTH sides of the join ( pva ? )
and have a person on Ea End to pursude the alignment/ joint tightness - in plan , correct . %^@

A concrette block against ea end would hold them in , while it goes off .
Important to leave for a few days while it cures/ gasses off or whatever you call it .

Biggest pain would be C/S sheeting . A clean up of the edge it butts to / fits against , BEFORE
joining the halves would help . A bit of prcision rec onstructive surgery .Most of the time would be in waiting .

BUT , as is said . A new wing might be a better idea , unless youre intending to do the same thing again  LL~ S?P

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A wing thats ' lost ' the center six or eight inches , is often best used a a six or eight in shorter wing , with a .25 or whatever in it .

Building a NEW Centersection and grafting the existing outers into that , if your an ecconomist or Scotish , looks simpler there
if you must . It looks pretty mushy and awkward reclaiming the center . Just loosing a inch or two of span might do it /
minimise T E joins , looks like the TE & bellcrank areas the biggest pain . Just Stright   BARH !

Cutting ONE ply wing rib template - 80 thou clear plastic sheet from the building supplies ( lexan ) and you can cut a trhousand ribs in a day .
Tracing round the template with a SHARP pencil , and dialing it in rubbed edgewise on a sheet of sandpaper , or use a Fine File ,
untill it does  a exact trace BOTH ways up , will give you even ribs .

Layout use a square , Long Lines way through it for parralelity & sqquareness . So use a foot x six inches , to start .

You could have a stack of framed out twister wings up to the cieling in a week , with a WING RIB TEMPLATE .  ;D

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2016, 07:19:51 PM »
Putting one of your stockpile of wings  ;D in , Pre Glue both sides of the join , if useing PVA opr Epoxy .

Knife Off & clear the beads , in the fuse , before slideing the wing in , carefully & square . Even Tho theres now not really any gle on that side , its NOT DRY , therefore Dry Spots in the joint should be avoided .
Obviously its gotta go in from the side the pushrods on .

Theyll go in squeeky tight if you ease Ea rib in and support it with a few thumbs , though you may crack a few . You could slip the template behind ea as support as you went if you were particular .
You generally only do it right in ONCE , as this is testig providance , to a degree . As needs must . B ut once is enough . You can even do a longer wing, extra bay a side , with nice stiff spars , & LE
and TE .
 S?P
Using blotting paper wood theres inadviseable . Wood you can wave around like a fencing sword without it giving way , Id think would be worth the ounce or two , and stay on in rough air .

The Controls are the most time consuming part - and THEYRE ALREADY DONE . Though checkem good , the treads & horns and such .

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/information_source/how_to_articles_for_model_builders/construction/make_constant_chord_wing_ribs/

. Youd think Wing rib Templates would be a Hot Line for our laser cutter friends , particularly for the Tapered Wings . Post'd be tuppance overseas . Unlike some things .  >:(

Offline RknRusty

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2016, 07:58:10 PM »
Thanks, Matt. Airfield Models is my all time favorite web-based reference guide. And, nah, I'll continue to fly in the wind. I feel that if you can't handle the wind, you shouldn't be competing. The blame is on me... usually is... I should be skilled enough to have adapted to the assbackwards handle before plowing the field. I'm very disappointed in myself for that. When it was turning loops on the lanyard, before I recovered the handle, I was astounded at how tight it could turn. I've obviously never pulled it to full deflection before.

This is my main contest ship, so no half-baked repairs will be considered. I'll probably remove and repair this wing, but it will get a brand new one to bring the airframe back to top form and keep its weight down. During my trimming, it had been as high as 44.1 oz., but this day it was down to 41 and change where it seems most happy. I had the CG pretty far back, trying to get sharp corners without feeling like I was lugging it through corners. Somewhere in between is about right.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Online Brent Williams

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2016, 08:58:29 AM »
For those who are curious, here's a side view of the Corehouse Twister foam wing cores.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2016, 11:56:17 AM »
Poking holes in that thick wing would be snap.  Set the cores, bucks and all on a board vertical span wise.   A couple of eyelet screws line up  above the cores with a clip to hold an 1/8 music wire.  Needs to be lined up with the core.   Heat the end of the wire red hot and release the clip.   Make sure you have clearance between the core and the floor.  If done right you will hear the hot wire hit the floor.  Don't grab the wire when it hits the floor, if you do you won't do it again.  Once I have the hole punched the core then I can feed my foam cutter wire through and finish coring using the template I made.  Much easier to show in person than write about it.  Also don't try feeding the wire horizontally through the core to make the starting holes.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2016, 04:19:09 PM »
Build a new wing from fresh scratch. Put in a 4" bellcrank while you're at it.  y1 Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

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Offline RknRusty

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2016, 07:49:41 PM »
Build a new wing from fresh scratch. Put in a 4" bellcrank while you're at it.  y1 Steve
That's my plan, including the 4" crank. I could get a wing kit from Walter if he was up to it. I don't want to bother him, but I know someone already told him about. It's hard recovering from what he's been through.

All I need is a couple of sheets of wood, LE stick, and spars. I guess they're spruce. I have a 4" crank left over from my Oriental ARF. I just need to get off my ass and get to work. I'm still in utter disbelief that I couldn't muster the skill to save it from a surprise backwards handle after I got it back in hand.

You guys, thanks for the foam tips, but I'm not going that route. I'm staying with the wood and hoping it'll be the same plane as before the incident.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2016, 09:47:46 PM »
A wing wib template , Oriental / twin & 7 in chord ditto .

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2016, 09:52:33 PM »
You can see this guys cheating , you could get twice as many in a stack .  ;)



Justin Case. another view. These are 2 mm PVC sheet. quite resitant to new blade nicking, unless your completely ham fisted .

Offline RknRusty

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2016, 11:15:43 PM »
Quote from: Matt Spencer
You can see this guys cheating , you could get twice as many in a stack .  ;)

Justin Case. another view.
Hey, yeah, I know that Justin Case dude, he's always prepared for anything. Musta been an Eagle Scout... or whatever your equiv is down there in Zee Land.

Okay, guys, I got this. Thanks for everything, including the foam stuff I'll try in the future. I'll show y'all what I did when I do it. It'll work great.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Offline RknRusty

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2016, 04:37:19 PM »
The cleanup begins. Just cutting out the broken parts, and will graft it all back together.



DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: What's the best way to repair this broken wing? Fuselage is still intact.
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2016, 01:38:51 AM »
Thanks Ty. Bought my wood today, so I'm ready to get down to it.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com


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