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Author Topic: Twister kit question  (Read 26324 times)

Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #100 on: December 12, 2017, 03:39:09 PM »
Thanks Dave. It is beginning to make some sense. I like your idea of the collars too! Tim
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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2017, 06:26:31 PM »
Ok so I have another question. When do you glue the wire joiner to the flaps? I am thinking you glue the joiner to the flaps, slip them through the wing cut out on the fuselage and then slide the wing in place and glue the hinges in place. Tim
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Offline Target

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2017, 07:44:45 PM »
Correct.
I like to leave the holes ever so slightly loose, and glue the wire in them after they are covered,  on a sheet of glass so i know they are the same angle.
Lay a straight edge against their leading edges.

R,
Target
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Chris
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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2017, 08:15:51 PM »
Thanks For the information Chris, Tim
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Offline Target

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #104 on: December 12, 2017, 09:58:15 PM »
Its not impossible, I did that on my banshee.
I even pre glued the hinges into both the wing and the flaps before gluing the wing in to the fuse, WITHOUT cutting any part of the fuse at all. ....

Who knows how?  They were dubro pinned hinges.
Anyone?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 11:39:22 PM by Target »
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #105 on: December 12, 2017, 10:04:16 PM »
   Cloth hinges. C/A hinges. Hinges with the pins removed. Lots of ways to do it.
  Type at you later,
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Offline Target

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #106 on: December 12, 2017, 10:05:17 PM »
By using a long piece of music wire, inserted through the hinge barrels from the wing tip.
With a 1/4" 90 degree bend that gets pushed into the wing TE when it's slid all the way in.
Simple, and removable if needed. And no weakening the fuse, that's the best part.
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Chris
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #107 on: December 12, 2017, 10:07:53 PM »
OK, that's one way to do it. Another is to glue the joiner into the TE. Cut the hinge slots on the flaps and wing TE (actually that could be done after the wing is in the fuselage, builder's choice). Glue wing in the fuselage, dry fit the flaps then remove,  cover the wing or use heat shrink covering (again, builder's choice) then attach the flaps and rig accordingly. That's the sequence that has worked for me.  FWIW: Some builders advocate covering the wing before installing it in the fuselage-that works too, it's just another one of those pesky builders choice conundrums.  8)

**this is a reply to response #110, you guys are too quick for me.   D>K
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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #108 on: December 13, 2017, 05:56:21 AM »
I epoxied the wire joiner to the flaps this morning.
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Offline James Holford

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #109 on: December 13, 2017, 05:58:14 AM »
I epoxied the wire joiner to the flaps this morning.
Lookin good Tim... i need to order a new wing kit so i can start over!

Tim... was it you that I gave the voodoo too at the contest to buy?

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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #110 on: December 13, 2017, 06:54:08 AM »
Morning James! Thanks for the build compliment. It wasn’t me that you gave the voodoo too. Tim
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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #111 on: December 14, 2017, 12:26:51 PM »
So offset the motor and install the rudder without any offset? Tim
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #112 on: December 14, 2017, 07:47:32 PM »
So offset the motor and install the rudder without any offset? Tim

   Offset the engine *a little bit* and put the fin on dead straight ahead (and measure to make sure). Hinge the rudder and make it adjustable with very fine adjustments (since it's very large and very powerful, any adjustment will have to be tiny). Start with just a breath, the smallest detectable, of rudder offset.

     Brett

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #113 on: December 14, 2017, 09:00:36 PM »
   The reason you want just a degree or so of engine offset, is the counter the effect of the engine torque, not necessarily for extra line tension. Engine off sets have been discussed a lot before and you can search that out. I use what Bob Whitelyspelled out in a Stunt News article titled, "Things That Always Work" and that is 1 degree down and 1 degree right thrust. There was much more to the article but that is all you really need to know for the Twister. I'll second what Mr. Buck recommends for the rudder also. If the rest of the model is straight and aligned properly, with the proper lead out position, you will be impressed by the line tension you will experience with these initial trim settings.
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #114 on: December 14, 2017, 09:57:19 PM »
   The reason you want just a degree or so of engine offset, is the counter the effect of the engine torque, not necessarily for extra line tension.

     Actually, it's to get the thrust line better aligned with the lateral CG, which is offset about 3/8" to the inboard side, and the engine is about 3/8" to the outboard side of the center of the fuselage.

     Brett

Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #115 on: December 16, 2017, 05:11:55 PM »
Sanding, sanding and sanding is in order now. So the thing about the finish, natural on the fuselage with red monokote on the wigs, rudder and stab. So what do you guys use to get the “natural” look finish? Tim
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #116 on: December 16, 2017, 06:00:32 PM »
So what do you guys use to get the “natural” look finish? Tim

Clear paint!

Personally, I'd go with silkspan and clear dope -- one layer of silkspan will add a lot of strength, and be nearly invisible.  If you're just not convinced about the need for silkspan, then just clear dope, or some urethane varnish.  The varnish will yellow in the sun, but that shouldn't detract from a natural wood-grain finish.
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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #117 on: December 17, 2017, 03:42:07 AM »
Thanks Tim. I am thinking about reinforcing the areas on the flaps and elevators with some 1/32” plywood on the top and bottom where the wire joiners and control horns attatch. Would this change my push rod placement, length and prevent from the kit, or am I just over thinking this? Tim
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #118 on: December 17, 2017, 09:13:21 AM »
Thanks Tim. I am thinking about reinforcing the areas on the flaps and elevators with some 1/32” plywood on the top and bottom where the wire joiners and control horns attatch. Would this change my push rod placement, length and prevent from the kit, or am I just over thinking this? Tim

You've already got the wire joiner epoxied in -- I'd just stick to the plan.  It may rip out in a crash, but it'll be an easy repair.
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Offline Target

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #119 on: December 17, 2017, 01:18:13 PM »
IMO, adding 1/64th ply or a patch of this CF plate where the wires go in and the horns bolt on is a good idea, because it helps during the inevitable tweaking of the flaps to get the wing level.
I used a triangle top and bottom on my Banshee AFTER covering. It seemed to work well, but I didn't have a bare non-reinforced plane to compare it to.
As for the push rod length, I don't think it will offset it enough to matter, and if you haven't made the holes for the flap horn yet, then your totally golden. Just assemble the plane, center the bellcrank, put the horn on the P/R, mark and drill the holes and bolt 'er up.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards,
Chris
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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #120 on: December 18, 2017, 03:16:19 AM »
Thanks for the input! I am in the covering process now. This will take a few days to do. Wings, stab and rudder will be true red and the fuselage will be yellow, all Monokote. I am really getting excited as I can see the end and looking forward to the first flight! Fuel tank should be the last thing to get, any suggestions? The engine is a Tower 40 with muffler with many thanks to Bootlegger for providing the power plant and inspiration to get this build going. Tim
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Offline Target

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #121 on: December 18, 2017, 05:55:30 AM »
On my Banshee, I did what a friend suggested, and it worked great.
Sand/scuff the inboard side of the metal tank, wipe it down with acetone.
Silicone the tank to a piece of 1/16" ply a little bigger than the tank is so there is a plywood edge around it.
Use two 4/40 bolts and blind nuts at the ends of the tank in the fuse. If you slot the holes in the plywood the tank height is adjustable.

IF I can find my Banshee thread, there is a picture of this. I used a piece of Carbon Fiber plate, but the concept works the same with plywood.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/new-cl-flyer-to-maiden-new-build!/msg399372/#msg399372

R,

Target
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #122 on: December 18, 2017, 09:08:46 AM »
On this primary force I stole from Fred, I did something similar to what Chris (target) is saying. I don't use tin tanks usually. I have bad luck with them. I use a lot of clunk tanks inboard. So to adjust height, I make a little adjustable table also.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #123 on: December 18, 2017, 11:32:43 AM »
I've been doing what Dane did, only using a metal plate (a thin metal plate, with honkin' big holes in it for lightness -- it's 3003 aluminum, whatever gauge works out to 1/32").  Note that Dane and I put the tanks on the inboard -- this is supposed to work better on a profile.  I couldn't say for absolutely sure, but it seems to make for a happy engine run.

A Tower 40 should be a great engine on that plane.  I'd start out with an APC 11.5 x 4 prop; if you can't slow the plane down go to an APC 12.25 x 3.75 prop.


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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #124 on: December 18, 2017, 02:52:18 PM »
Both those fuel setups look really good and functional too! Never thought about inboard mounting either. Thanks, Tim
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #125 on: December 18, 2017, 03:16:02 PM »
Both those fuel setups look really good and functional too! Never thought about inboard mounting either. Thanks, Tim

Functionally, the idea is that because the tank is inboard of the engine centrifugal force tends to pressurize the system -- and it does so more when you're going faster, and less so when you're going slower, lending a bit of speed regulation.  I dunno if that works.  On a more down-in-the-dirt practical level, it gives you lots more room for a fuel tank.
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #126 on: December 18, 2017, 03:27:34 PM »
On a more down-in-the-dirt practical level, it gives you lots more room for a fuel tank.

That's specifically why I do it. But from the speed guys who shim tanks vs adjusting needle valves, I can attest to the fuel feed changes. How much in our slower stunt application is this affect? I don't know either. But I like the consistency I get from these tank set up's.

Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #127 on: December 18, 2017, 08:17:43 PM »
I decided to give covering the wing a try after supper. Not too bad. The iron was a good purchase and the hot air gun is a must! Thanks to Gil for Perry’s number and many thanks to Perry for his expertise using Monokote. Tim
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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #128 on: December 23, 2017, 08:54:12 PM »
I have the landing gear, engine and fuel tank to install and this Twister will be ready for her Maiden flight! It was a learning experience for me. The last plane that I built was a lil jumpin bean with a Pet .09 and covered with tissue. That was 45 years ago. This has been challenging and exciting to build. It is not perfect by any means but will use what I have learned on my next build. Many thanks to Bootlegger and everyone who helped me get this plane built! Merry Christmas to everyone, Tim
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Offline James Holford

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #129 on: December 23, 2017, 09:04:06 PM »
I have the landing gear, engine and fuel tank to install and this Twister will be ready for her Maiden flight! It was a learning experience for me. The last plane that I built was a lil jumpin bean with a Pet .09 and covered with tissue. That was 45 years ago. This has been challenging and exciting to build. It is not perfect by any means but will use what I have learned on my next build. Many thanks to Bootlegger and everyone who helped me get this plane built! Merry Christmas to everyone, Tim
Thats what Im talkin about!!!!!!

Lookin good!!

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Offline jim ballard

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2017, 10:19:04 PM »
Great job Tim! Wish I could say that I'm that far along on mine, Lately life has kept me from doing some of the things I want to do, including my twister build, but I will get it done. Let us know how the maiden goes....

Jim
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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #131 on: December 24, 2017, 04:02:43 AM »
Thanks James and Jim. Will let y’all know how she flies. I am about to intall the landing gear now. Merry Christmas, Tim
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #132 on: December 24, 2017, 10:13:33 AM »
Merry Christmas Tim. The plane looks great!

Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #133 on: December 24, 2017, 03:14:14 PM »
Thanks Dane. Here it is! I have to install a clunk tank, thinking about converting it to uniflo, and it is finished!
Merry Christmas, Tim
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #134 on: December 24, 2017, 03:25:14 PM »
  Looking good Tim! One thing about the plastic clunk tanks, is that they can be very versatile. With a little planning and vision, you can set it up as a regular suction tank or uniflow, and be able to switch it from pressure to vent to atmosphere and anything in between. Make sure you have the engine well broken in just to eliminate any issues there. Set the tank up with the fuel pick up about even with the center of the bypass port on the engine as it sits in the profile configuration, or about 1/2" above the engine center line. That will put you close on how it will run upright and inverted, and you can fine tune by just twisting the stopper to raise and lower the pick up. Making sure everything is straight, even and in adjustment before first flights is called "bench trim."  As you gain experience and learn more, you can  bench trim a model to be close enough in flight trim to do the pattern or most of it on the first flight! That does come with time and experience, and is the direct result of paying attention to details on every model you build and fly.
    Good  luck and have fun!
  MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR!
  Dan McEntee

     PS to Add:  I was just looking at the photo of your airplane and noticed the needle valve sticking way up above the nose. If that is a Super Tiger type needle valve, cut the length down to where it is flush with the top of the nose. This does two things: 1) when the needle is that long and unsupported, it can act like a tuning fork and make for some weird runs. You can not tighten the collet enough to fix it. I cut them down and rebend them, or solder some sort of knob like a small nut onto the end of the needle. 2) The other thing cutting it down does is it keeps it from being broken off in the event of an inverted landing of any kind, and you WILL experience those, so might as well plan for it. If the needle doesn't get caught and broken on the inverted landing, most times you can just clean the airplane up of debris and fly again right away. It's no fun throwing a whole needle valve assembly away just because the needle broke and it's stuck in the spray bar! Been there and done that a LOT!
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #135 on: December 24, 2017, 09:24:12 PM »
By all means take that needle valve out of the engine, get a torch and heat it up red hot where you want the bend.  Then cut off the excess that was bent over.  I even do it my Fox needles on profile planes. H^^  Oh, and MERRY CHRISTMAS.  The plane still looks great.
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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #136 on: December 26, 2017, 08:25:12 PM »
I had a chance to fly my Twister and it was great! The plane was easily trimmed out and the Tower 40 was very powerful too. Thanks to all who gave their advise and to Bootlegger for his inspiration, advise and the engine! Happy New Year to all, Tim
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Offline jim ballard

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #137 on: December 26, 2017, 10:56:45 PM »
I had a chance to fly my Twister and it was great! The plane was easily trimmed out and the Tower 40 was very powerful too. Thanks to all who gave their advise and to Bootlegger for his inspiration, advise and the engine! Happy New Year to all, Tim

Awesome Tim! Happy New Year!
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Offline Target

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #138 on: December 26, 2017, 11:02:14 PM »
Happy it was a success. Happy new year,  Tim.
Regards,
Chris
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #139 on: December 27, 2017, 12:33:01 PM »
I had a chance to fly my Twister and it was great! The plane was easily trimmed out and the Tower 40 was very powerful too. Thanks to all who gave their advise and to Bootlegger for his inspiration, advise and the engine! Happy New Year to all, Tim

Good to hear!  That plane is a great stunt trainer.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Fredvon4

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #140 on: December 27, 2017, 01:48:10 PM »
You might be sorry for not building two or three.... perhaps not

What? November 11th to today is roughly 45 days ----and in the tread you had many non productive days for various reasons...we all do

NOT trying to be a butt head

The Twister Kit is one of the easier kits to copy
Of course a lot depends on the goal

if fun fly only... one only  and repair as needed is a good plan

if progressing in the PAMPA classes... two or three identical planes can make each flight trip MUCH more productive for NOT too much extra expense or work

BUT Tim... you did start a project.. got the stuff...asked the questions... took some of the advice and you have a flying model

That warm fuzzy you feel is REALLY what it is all about




"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline James Holford

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #141 on: December 27, 2017, 01:49:11 PM »
Dude is gona pass me up in no time!!!

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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #142 on: December 27, 2017, 02:21:29 PM »
Dude is gona pass me up in no time!!!

In productivity, or handsomeness?


Offline James Holford

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #143 on: December 27, 2017, 02:22:06 PM »
In productivity, or handsomeness?
Haha everything!

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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #144 on: December 27, 2017, 02:34:18 PM »
That's exactly why I had a thing for Margaret Thatcher. Power is sexy.

Offline James Holford

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #145 on: December 27, 2017, 02:36:17 PM »
Tim is gona go straight to advanced!

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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #146 on: December 27, 2017, 06:20:10 PM »
Well the plane flys way better than I do! Lol Tim
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Offline Tim Chenevert

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #147 on: December 28, 2017, 08:27:21 PM »
So I got curious and decided to weigh my Twister. It weighs 40 ounces without fuel in the tank. Is this within a good weight? Thanks, Tim
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #148 on: December 28, 2017, 08:49:34 PM »
Very nice sounding weight.

Offline Target

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Re: Twister kit question
« Reply #149 on: December 28, 2017, 09:07:49 PM »
Bueno, Tim.
My Banshee is a bit smaller than the Twister and it is 38oz.
Your Twister is fine weight, especially for the first build. /Fly the stew out of that thing!!

R,
Target
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 03:08:38 AM by Target »
Regards,
Chris
AMA 5956


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