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Building Tips and technical articles. => Building techniques => Topic started by: Tim Chenevert on November 11, 2017, 02:57:13 PM

Title: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 11, 2017, 02:57:13 PM
I am about to start building a Sig Twister from a kit and would like to know if the wood is acceptable in the new kits? Also, are the ribs laser cut? I would also appreciate any advice as this will be my first build in 40+ years! The first one I am going to build stock but do plan on making Templet’s and building a Francher version. Thanks, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on November 11, 2017, 03:31:28 PM
    Hi Tim;
    On your first build and model after a long lay off, I wouldn't worry too much about extras and details that you may not be concerned with at this point. There has been volumes written on the Twister and possible modifications so do a search on SIG Twister and be prepared to read for a couple of hours!. It is also an very capable airplane when built stock out of the box. I don't know if current SIG kits are laser cut or not, but I have built Twisters with wood that resembled barn siding and they flew fine. The biggest thing to concentrate on is building it straight and solid. There are a few things that help with longevity and aid in trimming. A fuselage tripler for the nose of some kind can be added to add shape and rigidity to the nose to help the engine run is acceptable. The landing gear plugs into a tube in the fuselage, and I double up on the tube with a piece of 3/16" tube to help it take the extra punishment of landings. An adjustable lead out system helps with trimming but the locations on the plan will make for a good flying model if balanced correctly. Also adjustable tip weight can be achieved by providing a way to attach weights to the outside of the outboard wing tip with a long bolt, and about 1 1/4 ounces will do to start. After getting the flaps and elevators hinged and working properly and final finish applied, seal the hinge gap with tape. You are probably going to beat this airplane up quite a bit while you get your chops back, so consider it expendable and keep work to a minimum and you can build a hot rod Fancher version with the templates that you said you will be making later on. The SIG Skyray .35 is anothe kit of theirs that flies well, is durable and easily repaired and makes a good plane to learn or relearn the basics at a minimum of expense and can also be scratch built and powered with numerous available power plants. Good luck and have fun with it!
   Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 11, 2017, 04:30:45 PM
I appreciate the advice! I have heard that you do not need a wing jig, just a flat surface? I have built numerous 1/2A planes but never used a jig. I am just curios about the setup. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on November 11, 2017, 04:35:49 PM
The Sig kits don't have laser cut parts, they are die cut old school style to the best of my knowledge.
I'm pretty certain that someone here DOES or WILL laser cut you ribs and the half ribs that you want for the second one, but, you could just make metal templates and stack your own rib set, since the wing is constant chord.
Laser cutting comes more into play with tapered wings, IMO, although you could stack cut those as well.

You don't have to have a wing jig, but since the ribs are not flat bottom, they will either have tabs, or you will need to prop up the lower spar and LE with the TE on the bench.
A flat surface is important, either way.

Have fun. Don't worry about the first build too much. Concentrate on making the bellcrank to leadouts correct, and as Dan said, add the tip box and adjustable leadout guides and fly the stew out of it! ;D
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 11, 2017, 04:46:28 PM
I appreciate the advice! Thanks, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on November 11, 2017, 05:22:12 PM
I've been practicing the pattern with my completely box stock, built as per the plan SIG Twister. The only difference I made was the landing gear on mine is a little bulkier. It's awesome as is. I only used the kit wood, and it's actually a light build.
After building it this way, I would say the two things I wish I did different would be adding adjustable lead out's and a weight box. That's it. The plane flys awesome. I flew the pattern today for like 4 hours with it.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 11, 2017, 05:48:11 PM
Thanks, Dane. How did you build your wing? I do plan on using the adjustable leads like my Ringmaster (ARF) and also the wingtip weight box. I hope to have my man cave back by next weekend and start my build. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on November 11, 2017, 06:12:58 PM
There might be some wing pics in this old thread

https://stunthanger.com/smf/paint-and-finishing/twister-monokote-job/

I'm wierd, I built the wing on a sheet of glass with weights and clamps. It came out straight as can be. I didn't build over the plans either. I just make balsa measuring sticks with the plans to use to get the rib spacing. They're not left in, just to set the spacing. But it's an easy wing being a straight LE and TE. I'll take any specific pics if you need, but I'm thinking you'll be totally good with this build!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on November 11, 2017, 07:12:46 PM
I appreciate the advice! I have heard that you do not need a wing jig, just a flat surface? I have built numerous 1/2A planes but never used a jig. I am just curios about the setup. Tim

   The plans show how to build it on a board, and it works out OK that way. The trailing edge is pinned on the plan and the bottom spar is spaced up on square balsa sticks, about 3/8" square I think scrap balsa. You start gluing and pinning ribs to the trailing edge over the plan, then add the top spar, then leading edge. It is explained very well on the plan. It works well as long as you have a good, flat building board. Even a jig isn't worth spit if it is set up correctly. Jigs are nice but not 100% necessary to build a good wing. This is just one of the many small details you watch as you build. If you are a "retread" and have built balsa models before, it will come back to you.
   I'm doing like Dane, and building one box stock as per plan just to illustrate live and in person to people how good it is as per plan. I will paint it as Gretz's original, which was orange and trimmed like the current box art. The original was orange, and the current box art photo is the original, it just got "changed" some how over the years. The original is with some one in Iowa, I think.  It's like Dane suggests and I mentioned, just add adjustable tip weight, adjustable lead outs, beef up the gear a little bit, and go have fun!
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

    PS to add: The plan shows a rather sharp leading edge. While not super critical, the plane will turn a bit better and track a bit better with a nice, round and sorta blunt leading edge. It has a 1/2" square balsa leading edge so there is plenty of wood there to sand it to shape.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on November 11, 2017, 07:50:20 PM
   
    PS to add: The plan shows a rather sharp leading edge. While not super critical, the plane will turn a bit better and track a bit better with a nice, round and sorta blunt leading edge. It has a 1/2" square balsa leading edge so there is plenty of wood there to sand it to shape.

Agreed. I'm actually going to build myself another and use what I've learned building and flying this one to make it more trimming friendly. Basically just changing the things we've said here, and keep practicing!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 11, 2017, 08:07:31 PM
Thanks for the excellent advice and inspiration! I am really looking forward to this build and flying it! Bootlegger has given me a Tower 40 all set up and broken in for this plane so I think it will definitely have the power. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Russell Shaffer on November 11, 2017, 08:09:32 PM
Be sure to follow the advice about beefing up the landing gear mount.  That little brass tube through the fuselage will break very easily.  I use a piece of 3/8 aluminum round bar with a 1/8 hole drilled through it, but a piece of hardwood drilled for the kit's brass tube would work fine.  I just gave away my first kit Twister - still had the original wing but the fuselage had been broken numerous times and replaced.  Twisters are great pattern trainers.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 12, 2017, 07:57:23 AM
I appreciate all the excellent advice given here! I plan on picking up the kit today from my LHS and start making my templets for future use. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Brett Buck on November 12, 2017, 09:55:13 AM
Be sure to follow the advice about beefing up the landing gear mount.  That little brass tube through the fuselage will break very easily.  I use a piece of 3/8 aluminum round bar with a 1/8 hole drilled through it, but a piece of hardwood drilled for the kit's brass tube would work fine.

     You will do even better if you use *two* holes side-by-side, and run the stub ends of the gear all the way through the fuselage, rather than going only halfway across. This will greatly reduce the load on the ends of the gear (cut it to less than half). You have to bend the right and left slightly differently, but it's still only about 1/8" different. Do that, and even the brass tube(s) will work OK. For sure, make sure it goes all the way through both doublers, so you are not counting on the strength of the tube alone.

      Having said that, I would highly recommend flat aluminum gear (either from SIG or aftermarket like Randy). Much more durable, less prone to these sorts of mounting issues, and only a few dollars.

     Brett
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Fredvon4 on November 12, 2017, 01:29:09 PM
To follow up on Brett's advice

RSM sells a set of Long Duralloy Gear - fits Twister and similar models for $14 =/-   he also has a shorter set

And Sig Mfg had the aluminum gear for the Ultimate Bi-plane but just looked and they don't have the aluminum gear any more

Most all my profile planes are set up with Aluminum vs wire LG

There are CF options also

Sig Twister built as instructions is just fine

Easy search here on SH as noted above will have you quickly thinking you might want to build two or three at a time

If the plan is just fun fly...not needed the twister is pretty durable
If the Plan is to learn pattern, get better, and advance in capability... multiples of the same plane and engine are a bonus...fly crash, pull out second, glue up crashed, go fly learn more in one trip
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Steve Helmick on November 12, 2017, 05:09:00 PM
One thing about building the wing...the die-cut ribs are fine, but they likely will NOT be perfectly symmetrical. So, stack 'em up and look for the ones that aren't quite lined up. Spend a few minutes getting them flipped and flopped to line them up correctly. Take the stack and make a mark in the bottom of the top spar's notch. This will help a lot to help keep the wing straight.  y1 Steve

PS: It's Fancher or Fancherized, with one "r".
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on November 12, 2017, 06:21:19 PM
     You will do even better if you use *two* holes side-by-side, and run the stub ends of the gear all the way through the fuselage, rather than going only halfway across. This will greatly reduce the load on the ends of the gear (cut it to less than half). You have to bend the right and left slightly differently, but it's still only about 1/8" different. Do that, and even the brass tube(s) will work OK. For sure, make sure it goes all the way through both doublers, so you are not counting on the strength of the tube alone.

This is my preferred method for mounting profile landing gear.  If the gear is otherwise flat (like a Twister gear) then when you're done the gear will have identical bends moving the mounting ends 1/16" off the plane.  When they're mounted on the plane, one will be 1/16" forward, and the other 1/16" back.

The Twister gear is probably already bent to just go half-way through the fuselage, though -- so you'll need to decide on whether you want to go with the bent wire as is and a stronger tube, or make new gear.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on November 12, 2017, 08:24:59 PM
This is my preferred method for mounting profile landing gear.  If the gear is otherwise flat (like a Twister gear) then when you're done the gear will have identical bends moving the mounting ends 1/16" off the plane.  When they're mounted on the plane, one will be 1/16" forward, and the other 1/16" back.

The Twister gear is probably already bent to just go half-way through the fuselage, though -- so you'll need to decide on whether you want to go with the bent wire as is and a stronger tube, or make new gear.

    Like I mentioned in my first response;
  I just use what comes with the kit ( a length of 5/32" brass tube) and cut an equal length of 3/16" brass tube to slide over it. That doubles the wall thickness for almost nothing if you have scraps of brass tube laying around. Then all that needs to be done is drill a 3/16" hole in the fuselage. VIOLA! That's it. Since this will probably be a disposable airplane, keep work and expense to a minimum.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 16, 2017, 08:04:45 PM
This is a timely thread for me. I'm a re-tread as well (35 years) and just received my Twister via FedEx and will heed the excellent advice given in this thread. Adjustable lead outs, and weight box are on the list. I may even do an adjustable rudder as well. Thanks for all the advice to the OP, I'm just riding the wave..... ;D
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on November 16, 2017, 08:54:33 PM
Make sure to do a little research on proper installation of the lead outs to the bellcrank. That's important. Take a little extra care there.
I'm a fan of reversing the bellcrank also so that the pushrod going to the flaps is in front of the pivot, closer to the inner wing tip, not outer, but that's a minor detail.
Enjoy!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Brett Buck on November 17, 2017, 10:43:37 PM
This is a timely thread for me. I'm a re-tread as well (35 years) and just received my Twister via FedEx and will heed the excellent advice given in this thread. Adjustable lead outs, and weight box are on the list. I may even do an adjustable rudder as well. Thanks for all the advice to the OP, I'm just riding the wave..... ;D

   The adjustable rudder is very important, and you need to align it very carefully, as carefully as anything else.

    Brett
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 17, 2017, 11:10:04 PM
Brett, thank you for the advice. Will do.....
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 18, 2017, 04:34:09 PM
I do appreciate all the advice here. Jim, I think it is great that we are building Twisters at the same time. With all the knowledge here, we should have a couple nice planes! I also have a friend, Bootlegger, that will be helping me and will pass on all advice I get. I bought the kit today and I am in the process of making templates so I can repair and make a Fancher Twister to follow. I hope to start the build over Thanksgiving....and do some flying too! Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 18, 2017, 04:51:17 PM
Another question;
What is the Benefit of adding half ribs? I have also been told to add thin balsa bracing between the spars to held with wing flex. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on November 18, 2017, 05:40:39 PM
  I just use what comes with the kit ( a length of 5/32" brass tube) and cut an equal length of 3/16" brass tube to slide over it. That doubles the wall thickness for almost nothing if you have scraps of brass tube laying around. Then all that needs to be done is drill a 3/16" hole in the fuselage. VIOLA! That's it. Since this will probably be a disposable airplane, keep work and expense to a minimum.

That should do.

My "disposable" Twister carried me from the middle of Intermediate to just a bit above the bottom of Expert, in four-five years of flying and probably over 500 flights.  It's a good thing I didn't build it as a throw-away, even though I thought it'd only last six months!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on November 18, 2017, 05:43:42 PM
Another question;
What is the Benefit of adding half ribs? I have also been told to add thin balsa bracing between the spars to held with wing flex. Tim

The half ribs help to hold the airfoil shape.  The reason for half ribs is because the curvature of the airfoil is more severe in front.

The thin (1/16 works well) balsa with the grain going vertically between the spars keeps the spars from being able to squeeze together, which keeps the wing from even consider buckling.  It also helps to form a "D" tube along with the covering in front -- although without LE sheeting, that effect is probably minimal.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 18, 2017, 06:22:53 PM
It looks like those two options are good then. Do they add a lot of weight? I am trying to build this kit as light as possible. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 18, 2017, 09:18:22 PM
I do appreciate all the advice here. Jim, I think it is great that we are building Twisters at the same time. With all the knowledge here, we should have a couple nice planes! I also have a friend, Bootlegger, that will be helping me and will pass on all advice I get. I bought the kit today and I am in the process of making templates so I can repair and make a Fancher Twister to follow. I hope to start the build over Thanksgiving....and do some flying too! Tim

Hi Tim, glad you started the thread when you did because I'm getting the same benefit with no intention of hijacking your thread. I'm so impressed with the knowledge and expertise of the folks on this forum, and the willingness to help and share that knowledge. Good luck with your build and be sure to share pics along the way, I will do the same.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Brett Buck on November 18, 2017, 10:06:50 PM
It looks like those two options are good then. Do they add a lot of weight? I am trying to build this kit as light as possible. Tim

   I wouldn't worry about things like this. Where you get in trouble with weight is in the finish, hardware, and the excess use of plywood. A few small bits of ribs will not make a consequential difference in the weight, but will slightly improve the aerodynamics (and appearance). Don't make them with the grain vertical, put it fore/aft as per normal. Use light-medium balsa (6-7 lb) B or C grain.

     It's much more important to make sure you radius the leading edge as blunt as you can make it, basically, carve/sand a smooth arc from the ribs on the top to the ribs at the bottom, and symmetrical. A razor plane will speed this up dramatically.

      Brett
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on November 18, 2017, 11:03:50 PM
It looks like those two options are good then. Do they add a lot of weight? I am trying to build this kit as light as possible. Tim

   As it has been mentioned, no need to get hung up on weight just yet at this stage. That is one reason I usually advise keeping modifications to a minimum until you get some time in the air and get some experience to learn what the modifications are for and that in itself helps keep weight in check. It's more important to built a straight, accurate air frame. The half ribs and shear webs (which I think aren't necessary but if installed only need to go out about half way on each wing)  won't add but a few grams of weight. The Twister air foil is capable of carrying a fair amount of extra weight. I have seen Twisters bastardized  up to 50 ounces or more and still fly a pattern. One legendary example is a dimensionally stock Twister that was built entirely out of pine but the late ( and I think great) Jason Pearson and his Dad. I think it weighed around 55 to 60 ounces and was powered with a .35 or .40 FP the last time I saw it fly, and Jason flew that in contests! And did well with it! They did it just to prove a point I think. You can search on the forums here for more information on it. Something like that takes some careful flying when it gets too heavy, and that is something we all have done and you will to eventually in the process of learning.. You just can't build a light airplane at first, you have to learn HOW to build a light airplane and what it takes to do that. As Brett mentioned, there are several elements involved in building up weight in a model and no one thing will make an airplane lighter. It starts at the beginning and has to be monitored through the construction right up to the final finish, and learning what to do and watch for takes time and experience, but you will get there. Jason Pearson was quite a guy and great modeler who was tragically killed in an ultralight airplane accident. We are holding our now annual Turkey Shoot contest tomorrow that he instigated here, and I believe his wife is supposed to come up and attend tomorrow. We miss him a lot.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on November 19, 2017, 01:48:20 PM
   As it has been mentioned, no need to get hung up on weight just yet at this stage. ... The Twister air foil is capable of carrying a fair amount of extra weight. I have seen Twisters bastardized  up to 50 ounces or more and still fly a pattern.

My Fancherized Twister weighs 54 ounces dry, and has done better than 500 points and better than last place in Expert in local contests.  So -- yes.  Build the kit with the wood that's in it, and don't lard on the paint, and you should be fine.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 19, 2017, 01:49:34 PM
Okay guys my man cave is back in business! My reloading bench has been modified with a covering of ceiling tile and ready to build the Twister on. Today I made a set of templets out of 1/4” plywood including a Templet for the 1/2 wing rib. I should start this week on building the Twister! Jim, where are you at with your build? Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 19, 2017, 02:30:49 PM
Hi Tim, got the wing framed up today and off the board. Adjustable lead-out, weight box, bellcrank mount, and center sheeting still left to do. I think I'm going to do shear webs as well about halfway to each wingtip as well. I cut the canopy down about 1/2" and did a little reshaping to the vertical stab and rudder.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 19, 2017, 02:38:26 PM
Here is the detail on minor mods on the fuse.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 19, 2017, 06:21:27 PM
Nice job on the wing Jim! I see your mark for the weight box and that is where I was thinking about putting mine.I am also going to install the shear webs and also the half ribs. What are you going to use for the adjustable line guide? I see Brodak has like 4 different ones. Also Bootlegger suggested to use aluminum landing gear. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on November 19, 2017, 06:55:34 PM
This is my fave from RSM. It's my fave for simplicity.
https://www.rsmdistribution.com/index-2.htm
The one that says LOG-01

If you like ordering from Brodak (which is also great) then my suggestion would be this one
http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/leadout-line-guide-kits/dual-2-line-adjustable-leadout.html
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on November 19, 2017, 07:36:34 PM
Nice job on the wing Jim! I see your mark for the weight box and that is where I was thinking about putting mine.I am also going to install the shear webs and also the half ribs. What are you going to use for the adjustable line guide? I see Brodak has like 4 different ones. Also Bootlegger suggested to use aluminum landing gear. Tim

   On a Twister, you don't need to build an actual box. There is no leading edge sheeting in which to blend in any sort of cover. The outside of the wing tips are lite ply, I believe, and that's pretty tough. I glued a small piece of 1/16" ply in the center of the outboard tip rib just ahead of the spars, and installed a 4-40 blind nut on the plywood and glued it thoroughly. For tip weight, I use pinewood derby weights that are sort of flat squares and drill a hole in the middle for the 4-40 bolt. I did one piece at 1 ounce for a starting place and will add or subtract as trimming proceeds. I put a piece of paper chip board the same size as the weights underneath it before tightening down to aid in getting a good grip, and the paper will crush a bit and between that and a good lock washer and flat washer, the bolt doesn't vibrate loose. The amount of tip weight will vary depending on several factors, and as trimming progresses, it's nice to be able to easily add or subtract weight. You can guess at a basic amount or use what it says on the plan (1 ounce) and just glue it in and it will be pretty close for a stock built model. Mike Gretz came to that amount through practice and experience. But when you start making additions to the construction of the air frame and different amounts of finish and types of finish, this can change what you need for tip weight to make the model track correctly, which is what the tip weight is for. As you get more flight time and experience you will be able to see and feel the difference and the need for more or less weight. There has been tons of stuff on tip weight posted to the forums on tip weight and there is posted some where the trimming article that Paul Walker had in his construction article for his impact stunt model that explains a whole lot. I think it's pinned on the site here some where, but you can cross that bridge when you get to it.
   Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Charles Meeks on November 19, 2017, 08:07:51 PM
Tim,
I was nice to meet you at Hobby Towne on Saturday.
I am working to finish my Twister and trying to fly the whole beginner pattern.
Our local club (Baton Rouge Bi-Liners) are some of the best folks I have met and I am
glad I have them to help with advise for building and flying.
Best Regards,
Charles Meeks
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 19, 2017, 08:20:40 PM
This is my fave from RSM. It's my fave for simplicity.
https://www.rsmdistribution.com/index-2.htm
The one that says LOG-01

If you like ordering from Brodak (which is also great) then my suggestion would be this one
http://brodak.com/control-line-parts/leadout-line-guide-kits/dual-2-line-adjustable-leadout.html

Dane, that's the one I'm using from Brodak.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 19, 2017, 08:33:07 PM
Tim, I am going to use the aluminum gear as well. What are you going to use for power? I have 3 pristine fox 35's so I'm going to use one for this project.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 20, 2017, 02:20:12 AM
Charles, I enjoyed meeting you too at Hobby Towne. The Bi-Liners is an exceptional group of people who love flying and very willing to help a fellow out with this hobby. I didn’t realize you were finishing a Twister! Did you go completely stock or did you modify yours some? I do remember you mentioned the Fancher mods.

Jim, thanks to a fellow Bi-Liner, Bootlegger (Gil), I have a very nice Tower 40 engine for a power plant. Gil set up the engine and told me it would go nicely in a Twister and that is what started me with this project. He has also offered any help and advice that I need. I will try to place an order for the landing gear at Brodak today. Did the Brodak adjustable wire guide install easily? Happy landings, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 21, 2017, 06:06:35 AM
Tim, the adjustable lead out should be easy to install. I cut a slot in the inboard end rib to allow the guide to slide fore and aft without binding. The inboard plywood tip will also need to be slotted as well. Hoping to get the wing finished up today so I can get started on the fuselage. Have a happy Thanksgiving!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 21, 2017, 11:33:53 AM
Tim. a few pics of how I installed the adjustable lead-out guide, super easy!

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 21, 2017, 05:47:45 PM
Nice work Jim! Where did you get the adjustable leads? I should start on mine Thanksgiving Day. I have another question, how did you make the splice between the wing spars? Happy Thanksgiving, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: big ron on November 21, 2017, 06:13:25 PM
Tim some of us are flying in Zachary at about 10:00 on Friday if you or anyone else can make it. I can bring my Twister for you to look at it ain’t much but flies good
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 21, 2017, 06:26:26 PM
Well thanks a lot Big Ron! I am busy until around 11 but will definitely head that way after. Looks like a nice Friday afternoon! Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 21, 2017, 08:13:38 PM
Nice work Jim! Where did you get the adjustable leads? I should start on mine Thanksgiving Day. I have another question, how did you make the splice between the wing spars? Happy Thanksgiving, Tim

Hi Tim,

The adjustable lead-out guide is from Brodak. Dane posted a link in a previous post, that is the one. I joined the spars, leading edge, and trailing edge sheeting as per the plans. The leading edge stock, and spars are a butt joint. The trailing edge sheeting is joined on a 45 degree angle.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 23, 2017, 05:29:43 AM
I ordered the adjustable lead outs and a weight box from Brodak’s yesterday. Thanks Jim for the heads up on the correct parts. The spar is down and all the ribs are glued in place except the two outside ribs. I tried to post a pic last night but was unable to.
Happy Thanksgiving to all, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 23, 2017, 03:52:10 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to all the members of the forum! Tim, get those pics working man.....we gotta have pics!   #^
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 23, 2017, 05:30:30 PM
I need to make them smaller to post and trying to figure out how to. I forgot to ask my daughters when everyone was here today. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on November 23, 2017, 05:41:47 PM
Most computers have editing software for pictures. Try right clicking the picture on your computer. Then "resize" 
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 23, 2017, 07:59:15 PM
I am on my iPhone. We do have a lap top but for whatever reason it does not recognize my log in here, so I just use my phone. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on November 24, 2017, 12:51:57 AM
On my Android, there is a setting in the camera app that allows you to take smaller picture files. Default is the largest files with the most details. On your IPhone, I will bet it is very similar, there is a setting that you could adjust.
Another way I can do it after the pic is taken, is by emailing the picture to myself.
When I attach the picture attachment to the email, it will ask me if I want it full sized, 70%, 30% or 10% size.
If the original file is large, like 4-5MB, I go with the 10%. If it's 2MB or less, the 30% usually makes it small enough to post here.

Another factor that many people don't realize is the background has a huge effect on the files size. If you are doing a build log, check out the difference between placing the subject of the photo on a piece of white poster board, vs. putting it on a textured background, such as a piece of fabric.... The difference in file size at the exact same range is very noticeable.
Don't even get me started on pics of planes on grass. That's the worst.

I also avoid quoting other people's posts and adding their pictures a second time. Uses up Sparky's bandwidth needlessly....

Hope this helps you post the pics, Tim. I love seeing pics and it can be very helpful for allowing others to chime in if they see something that could land you in trouble later, helping you out.
Looking forward to your Twister maiden flight!

R,
Target
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 24, 2017, 03:32:51 AM
Thanks. Chris for the info and I will try to post some pics as I go along. I have viewed others posts on builds which have helped me greatly and hope I can do the same. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 24, 2017, 04:45:26 AM
Test
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on November 24, 2017, 08:21:18 AM
Bravo, Tim  !
Now we're talking.
Good luck with the rest of the build!
Kind Regards,
Target
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: James Holford on November 24, 2017, 03:57:33 PM
Lookin good man.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 24, 2017, 04:06:23 PM
Thanks guys! I am glad I can now post pics. I am waiting for the weight box and adjustable lead guide to come in to continue the build. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on November 25, 2017, 10:33:08 PM
Looking good Tim!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 26, 2017, 05:27:30 AM
Question
The instructions are vague about installation of the Bellcrank assembly. It looks like the bellcrank is bolted to a piece of balsa? And is glued to two strips of wood on each side of the ribs. Can anyone elaborate on this? Thanks, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: James Holford on November 26, 2017, 05:31:00 AM
Suspendin bellcrank is the way to go!

Mike griffin had a video on youtube that gives a rundown on how to make it

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 26, 2017, 06:19:02 AM
Thanks, James, looking for the video now. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on November 26, 2017, 07:28:07 AM
Question
The instructions are vague about installation of the Bellcrank assembly. It looks like the bellcrank is bolted to a piece of balsa? And is glued to two strips of wood on each side of the ribs. Can anyone elaborate on this? Thanks, Tim

      Study the plan closely again. The bell crank is bolted to a piece of plywood, and is then glued to two square strips of balsa that are glued to the two center ribs. It is quite strong enough if done correctly. The balsa strips run from front to back. I think there is a sketch of their position on each rib. With C/A glue you can just tack them in place, bolt the bell crank to the plywood base and test fit. Get lead outs made up and installed also.  Search on here on how to use the copper tube method of bushing the lead outs. And don't forget to do the flap push rod. That can all get installed right before the center section sheeting is put on.  Read the instruction through, and do the steps in your mind so it makes sense.
    Off to the flying field!
    Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 27, 2017, 08:51:22 PM
Wing is starting to take shape! The plans call for a no 39 or 40 drill bit to enlarge some of the holes on the bellcrank, is there a standard size drill bit that will work or do I need to purchase a no 39? Thanks, Tim

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: bill bischoff on November 27, 2017, 09:55:32 PM
A #39 drill is.0995". The closest common size is 3/32", which is a fuzz smaller at .0938". The difference is less than 6 thousandths of an inch. Try 3/32, and if the pushrod is not snug in the hole, you're OK. You DO NOT want any excess slop, however, so don't be tempted to go to 7/64, the next biggest common fractional size.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 28, 2017, 06:24:36 AM
Thanks. I may do a test drill in wood to check fit. If not, will check hobby store. I just don’t want to buy a set for one bit to drill one hole in the bellcrank if you know what I mean. Lol. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Bootlegger on November 28, 2017, 07:57:22 AM

  Tim, I have  set of those drills, just come by when you are ready to use them..
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 28, 2017, 09:45:24 AM
Awesome Gill! I was going to call you later to see if you had one. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 28, 2017, 10:39:25 AM
Gill, what was the measurement for the bellcrank? Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Fredvon4 on November 28, 2017, 02:31:08 PM
Tim.... no way do I recommend this for precision hole drilling ----but for most "wood" projects the $59 HF drill set is not too bad...It covers a full spectrum of alpha, numbered, and Inch drill sizes.....but they ARE low quality and IMO NOT for precision hole boring

I also highly recommend you study to normal drilling needs and find a ACE hardware that carries a LARGE variety...specifically the Brad Point drills and IF they have the 6" or 8" long ones even better... usually Irvin brand... usually pretty strait and not very expensive

Also just a a hint... taking the Bell Crank Pivot music wire... lets say 1/8h as an example... and chucking it up in the drill....will bore/burnish...the correct size hole

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on November 29, 2017, 02:45:25 AM
Thanks Fredvon4 for the info. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Bootlegger on November 29, 2017, 09:44:23 AM
 Tim, if you are referring  to the  flap push rod location, it is 7/16" out from the B/C post
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 03, 2017, 10:04:30 AM
How do you install the flap push rod into the bellcrank? Does it push in from the top or from underneath the bellcrank? I have searched and can not find any pics and the plans do not say. Also one end of the flap push rod is slightly bent out. I want to make sure before I center sheet it. Thanks, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 03, 2017, 12:28:04 PM
Normal old school flap pushrods have a "Z bend" and yes it goes in from the top then.
If it has an "L bend" then it goes in from the bottom. and is trapped by the platform it is on.

New school is a ball link, with the ball bolted into the top of the bellcrank, and a washer above the yoke that rides the ball (so that there is now way it can come off ever.)

Make sure there is no binding, whatever you do, and account for the up angle to the flap horn.

Kind Regards,
Target
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Fredvon4 on December 03, 2017, 01:42:37 PM
Tim please re-look the twister plans...this is tough for a first time ever build but when looking at the assemblies and the plans some things just become obvious...in this case the lower side view has the wing, bell crank, flap horn (on top) and connections to the elevator

If using a Zee Bend...not easy for 3/23 push rod IMO....Going in on the BC from the top gives a better straight shot to the flap horn... installing from the bottom up will also work but needs a slightly different bend to the push rod and the need to put the rod on before bolting but the BC

Then there is the option of wheel collars or soldered washers...on only one 90 degree bend.....each with a plus or minus and new skill set

Nothing wrong with the stock controls ---and I recommend you do one or more by the PLAN method ---if for no other reason to understand the complexity of adjusting

That said a flapped plane needs some good method to adjustment for trimming reasons...  fixed 90 and Zee bend music wire is not too easy to adjust once set.... There are ways...all a royal PITA IMO....Please read a re-read about setting the controls and THEN final gluing the stab to determine the neutral of the Flaps and the elevator

SO I recommend AS you learn and build this one... search and read the hundreds of builds with all the various adjustable controls and ways to cobble your own preference or pay some one like Tom Morris a small amount to send you a custom system

This all was dumb to me when I did first twister from KIT...but I had done at least one ARF with flaps so had some small clue

I decided to do Bell crank, push wire to flaps, perfectly neutral..... 3/32 wire is hard for me to get perfectly made bends... fortunately I had NOT glued in the BC platform... too easy ....take any of my wire bend attempts... connect to flaps, lock them to neutral---- move BC ply fore or aft to center BC...mark, glue.....there is a hint here but I am old and forget what it is...


Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 03, 2017, 04:42:11 PM
Thanks for the replies! BC platform was glued into place like the plans showed as I am trying to build pretty much a stock Twister for my first build. I am planning on using the stock pushrods also. Right now, Bootlegger and I have the flap push rod with the 90 degree bend on top of the BC secured with a collar underneath. The part that goes into the flap control horn looks like the bend is slightly less than 90 degrees. Does this sound about right? Thanks, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: john e. holliday on December 04, 2017, 09:36:17 AM
I too use the L bend for pushrods.  But I also put ply plates top and bottom so pushrod will not leave the bell crank.  I've lost one plane using the wheel collar method.  Even had a notch for the set screw.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on December 04, 2017, 09:35:14 PM
   I solder a washer on the push rod with a single L bend. When I am doing final set up on the controls, I use a set collar on the other side so I can get as real  condition as I can, but still be able to take it apart. When I am finally satisfied with the installation, I put the wheel collar back one for one final check out, then just solder the wheel color to the music wire. On some I have done, I didn't solder it but replaced the grub screw with a regular bolt for extra torque and used lock tight or super glue to secure the set screw. Never had a problem with either method and both allow you to get the best fit while installing and allow to dis-assemble if need be along the way,or even later on after a crash and repairs are needed.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dave Moritz on December 05, 2017, 11:22:33 AM
Tim (or any of the other brethren at hand):

I inherited a kit-built Twister, but it needs some work. Externally, the leadouts were finished via a questionable solder job. Not sure about their internal attachment to the bell crank, but likely soldered as well. When operated, the leadouts drag and bind up a bit. So, it looks like I'll have to tear into the plane and see what's going on. Not something to look forwards to.

My question: Can you tell me the location of the BC? Basically, I'd prefer to remove the sheeting on only one side of the wing, so the question is whether it'd the inboard or the outboard section.

Not related comment: Good discussion above on the adjustable leadouts. I'll likely modify this bird accordingly.

Thanks!

Dave Mo...
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 05, 2017, 05:56:32 PM
Jim, how is your Twister coming along? Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 05, 2017, 06:38:56 PM
The BC is accessed from the top center panel portside. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 05, 2017, 10:43:02 PM
Dave-
If the back line pulls for up, the bellcrank is installed normally. If the front line pulls for up, the pushrod is inboard of the pivot.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dave Moritz on December 06, 2017, 10:26:25 AM
Three quick responses - Motorman, Tim and Chris - you're all the best!  I've got a normal installation, so will commence with the task at hand.

Thanks.

Dave...
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on December 06, 2017, 08:02:17 PM
Jim, how is your Twister coming along? Tim

Tim, I'm still about where I was on the build. Haven't had much time to work on it since before Thanksgiving. Hoping to get more done in the next week.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 06, 2017, 09:08:00 PM
Good to hear from you Jim. I am thinking about using Titebond, instead of epoxy, to glue the doublers and hardwood engine beams together. Also, anyone have any suggestions on how to drill the holes into the elevator and flaps for the wire spanner?  Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 06, 2017, 10:45:32 PM
You can strap it to a squared up 2x4 and use a drill press....
It doesn't hurt to add a triangle of 1/64" ply over the balsa where the wire is under it also.
Putting some thin CA in the (loose) hole to make the balsa more solid and letting it cure before the wire goes in isn't a bad idea either.

Most of the above applies more to the flaps, because you may have to "tweak them" to adjust for the wings to be level upright and inverted....
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: john e. holliday on December 07, 2017, 10:04:44 AM
Take it from experience, don't use Tite Bond or white glue for motor mount beams or ply doublers. 
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Bootlegger on December 07, 2017, 10:37:31 AM

  Tim, I have to agree with Doc about using titebond on motor mounts and doublers, use 30 minuet or longer for these parts, it will be much better..
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 07, 2017, 06:48:47 PM
Thanks Gil and Doc. Gil, How doni mount the alum engine mounts that you gave me? Do I recess them into the wooden beams or just bolt them on? I am on call all weekend but want to start on the fuselage. Thanks for your help last weekend. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: john e. holliday on December 07, 2017, 09:41:04 PM
Don't want to step on Gil's toes, but if you look close you will see how I use my metal plates.   

If you open the link below the picture you can enlarge it to see what I am talking about.   This also sets the engine out board a little more. D>K
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dave Moritz on December 08, 2017, 07:45:21 PM
My rehab of the inherited Twister continues. I got the bell crank out after some major surgery (not pretty).  Question regarding the lead-out wires: the wire used is .054", and this seems like overkill.  What do the brethren here think? Am considering .027".

Tim: my apologies for hijacking your thread!

Dave Mo...
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 08, 2017, 09:17:50 PM
Yes, way overkill. .027" is the correct stuff.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 10, 2017, 02:42:54 AM
No problem Dave. We are all trying to get our Twisters built or rebuilt so we can fly them. I am glad this thread is helping you. I should be able to start back on mine today after I finish with call. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 10, 2017, 06:15:59 PM
I worked on the bellcrank and flap push rod today. I think I had the bends reversed. One bend was not quite 90 degrees and I think that one went to the bellcrank and the 90 degree bend went to the control horn. I feel this is correct but if anyone knows for sure, I am all ears. The wing and flaps are slotted for the hinges and the control horn location verified. I am thinking about adding 1/32” plywood at the flap/ elevator control horn locations to beef it up. Opinions would be appreciated on that. Actually opinions and advice would be appreciated on any part of this build! Anyway, I have started the fuselage assembly. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on December 10, 2017, 06:35:55 PM
I feel this is correct but if anyone knows for sure, I am all ears. The wing and flaps are slotted for the hinges and the control horn location verified.

As long as the control system is freely moving and won't break, it is correct.  The rest is just details.

Your method of gluing up the fuselage is just fine, but if you want to be super picky, use my favorite relativistic clamping system, which uses the very curvature of space-time itself to hold the parts together (there really is a fuselage under all that junk, and it's even sorta-kinda a Fancherized Twister).  Make sure that the bottom side of the clamp is the flattest board you can find (using something flat for the top won't hurt, either):

(https://stunthanger.com/smf/building-techniques/fancherized-twister-build/?action=dlattach;attach=112107;image)

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 10, 2017, 06:46:06 PM
I like your style of clamping! ;) Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dave Moritz on December 11, 2017, 10:01:47 AM
Tim:

The Twister's pushrod I'm working on has the same "feature" ( a bend greater than 90-degrees).  Because my goal is to reduce control system friction, I'll bend it to a 90. Probably won't make much difference either way, though.

Dave...
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Serge_Krauss on December 11, 2017, 03:04:25 PM
I recess my aluminum engine mount pads into the plywood nose doubler so that it is against the hard-wood engine bearer. Mine are tapered to give some out-thrust. I coat the recess with 30-minute epoxy and then bot the engine on while the epoxy sets. The pads are then attached, but if they come out, the area is fuel proofed. this makes for a tight fit. I'll attach two pictures that I hope will show the appearance. Note that I used 1/16" plywood, rather than thicker material, allowing the aluminum to protrude.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 11, 2017, 03:47:55 PM
Thanks for the replies! Question for Dave; on my flap push rod one end of the 90 is longer than the other, which end did you go through the bellcrank with short or long?  Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dave Moritz on December 12, 2017, 02:40:51 PM
Tim:

It looks to me like the differences in length (and that large angle) are there for no special design purposes (such can happen in manufactured kits, by the way). As long as the extra length doesn't interfere with anything, I'd place it on either end.

By the way, I plan to cap the ends of these control rods with wheel collars. Will probably grind a small flat spot on the each rod where the setscrew contacts and then use epoxy glue on the threads of the setscrew. I prefer solder, but the control horns are made of nylon. Also it looked like this plane's builder had to drill out the control horn holes a tad to fit the larger control rods included in the kit.

Dave...

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 12, 2017, 03:39:09 PM
Thanks Dave. It is beginning to make some sense. I like your idea of the collars too! Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 12, 2017, 06:26:31 PM
Ok so I have another question. When do you glue the wire joiner to the flaps? I am thinking you glue the joiner to the flaps, slip them through the wing cut out on the fuselage and then slide the wing in place and glue the hinges in place. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 12, 2017, 07:44:45 PM
Correct.
I like to leave the holes ever so slightly loose, and glue the wire in them after they are covered,  on a sheet of glass so i know they are the same angle.
Lay a straight edge against their leading edges.

R,
Target
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 12, 2017, 08:15:51 PM
Thanks For the information Chris, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 12, 2017, 09:58:15 PM
Its not impossible, I did that on my banshee.
I even pre glued the hinges into both the wing and the flaps before gluing the wing in to the fuse, WITHOUT cutting any part of the fuse at all. ....

Who knows how?  They were dubro pinned hinges.
Anyone?
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on December 12, 2017, 10:04:16 PM
   Cloth hinges. C/A hinges. Hinges with the pins removed. Lots of ways to do it.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 12, 2017, 10:05:17 PM
By using a long piece of music wire, inserted through the hinge barrels from the wing tip.
With a 1/4" 90 degree bend that gets pushed into the wing TE when it's slid all the way in.
Simple, and removable if needed. And no weakening the fuse, that's the best part.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Balsa Butcher on December 12, 2017, 10:07:53 PM
OK, that's one way to do it. Another is to glue the joiner into the TE. Cut the hinge slots on the flaps and wing TE (actually that could be done after the wing is in the fuselage, builder's choice). Glue wing in the fuselage, dry fit the flaps then remove,  cover the wing or use heat shrink covering (again, builder's choice) then attach the flaps and rig accordingly. That's the sequence that has worked for me.  FWIW: Some builders advocate covering the wing before installing it in the fuselage-that works too, it's just another one of those pesky builders choice conundrums.  8)

**this is a reply to response #110, you guys are too quick for me.   D>K
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 13, 2017, 05:56:21 AM
I epoxied the wire joiner to the flaps this morning.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: James Holford on December 13, 2017, 05:58:14 AM
I epoxied the wire joiner to the flaps this morning.
Lookin good Tim... i need to order a new wing kit so i can start over!

Tim... was it you that I gave the voodoo too at the contest to buy?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 13, 2017, 06:54:08 AM
Morning James! Thanks for the build compliment. It wasn’t me that you gave the voodoo too. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 14, 2017, 12:26:51 PM
So offset the motor and install the rudder without any offset? Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Brett Buck on December 14, 2017, 07:47:32 PM
So offset the motor and install the rudder without any offset? Tim

   Offset the engine *a little bit* and put the fin on dead straight ahead (and measure to make sure). Hinge the rudder and make it adjustable with very fine adjustments (since it's very large and very powerful, any adjustment will have to be tiny). Start with just a breath, the smallest detectable, of rudder offset.

     Brett
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on December 14, 2017, 09:00:36 PM
   The reason you want just a degree or so of engine offset, is the counter the effect of the engine torque, not necessarily for extra line tension. Engine off sets have been discussed a lot before and you can search that out. I use what Bob Whitelyspelled out in a Stunt News article titled, "Things That Always Work" and that is 1 degree down and 1 degree right thrust. There was much more to the article but that is all you really need to know for the Twister. I'll second what Mr. Buck recommends for the rudder also. If the rest of the model is straight and aligned properly, with the proper lead out position, you will be impressed by the line tension you will experience with these initial trim settings.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Brett Buck on December 14, 2017, 09:57:19 PM
   The reason you want just a degree or so of engine offset, is the counter the effect of the engine torque, not necessarily for extra line tension.

     Actually, it's to get the thrust line better aligned with the lateral CG, which is offset about 3/8" to the inboard side, and the engine is about 3/8" to the outboard side of the center of the fuselage.

     Brett
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 16, 2017, 05:11:55 PM
Sanding, sanding and sanding is in order now. So the thing about the finish, natural on the fuselage with red monokote on the wigs, rudder and stab. So what do you guys use to get the “natural” look finish? Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on December 16, 2017, 06:00:32 PM
So what do you guys use to get the “natural” look finish? Tim

Clear paint!

Personally, I'd go with silkspan and clear dope -- one layer of silkspan will add a lot of strength, and be nearly invisible.  If you're just not convinced about the need for silkspan, then just clear dope, or some urethane varnish.  The varnish will yellow in the sun, but that shouldn't detract from a natural wood-grain finish.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 17, 2017, 03:42:07 AM
Thanks Tim. I am thinking about reinforcing the areas on the flaps and elevators with some 1/32” plywood on the top and bottom where the wire joiners and control horns attatch. Would this change my push rod placement, length and prevent from the kit, or am I just over thinking this? Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on December 17, 2017, 09:13:21 AM
Thanks Tim. I am thinking about reinforcing the areas on the flaps and elevators with some 1/32” plywood on the top and bottom where the wire joiners and control horns attatch. Would this change my push rod placement, length and prevent from the kit, or am I just over thinking this? Tim

You've already got the wire joiner epoxied in -- I'd just stick to the plan.  It may rip out in a crash, but it'll be an easy repair.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 17, 2017, 01:18:13 PM
IMO, adding 1/64th ply or a patch of this CF plate where the wires go in and the horns bolt on is a good idea, because it helps during the inevitable tweaking of the flaps to get the wing level.
I used a triangle top and bottom on my Banshee AFTER covering. It seemed to work well, but I didn't have a bare non-reinforced plane to compare it to.
As for the push rod length, I don't think it will offset it enough to matter, and if you haven't made the holes for the flap horn yet, then your totally golden. Just assemble the plane, center the bellcrank, put the horn on the P/R, mark and drill the holes and bolt 'er up.
Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 18, 2017, 03:16:19 AM
Thanks for the input! I am in the covering process now. This will take a few days to do. Wings, stab and rudder will be true red and the fuselage will be yellow, all Monokote. I am really getting excited as I can see the end and looking forward to the first flight! Fuel tank should be the last thing to get, any suggestions? The engine is a Tower 40 with muffler with many thanks to Bootlegger for providing the power plant and inspiration to get this build going. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 18, 2017, 05:55:30 AM
On my Banshee, I did what a friend suggested, and it worked great.
Sand/scuff the inboard side of the metal tank, wipe it down with acetone.
Silicone the tank to a piece of 1/16" ply a little bigger than the tank is so there is a plywood edge around it.
Use two 4/40 bolts and blind nuts at the ends of the tank in the fuse. If you slot the holes in the plywood the tank height is adjustable.

IF I can find my Banshee thread, there is a picture of this. I used a piece of Carbon Fiber plate, but the concept works the same with plywood.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/new-cl-flyer-to-maiden-new-build!/msg399372/#msg399372

R,

Target
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on December 18, 2017, 09:08:46 AM
On this primary force I stole from Fred, I did something similar to what Chris (target) is saying. I don't use tin tanks usually. I have bad luck with them. I use a lot of clunk tanks inboard. So to adjust height, I make a little adjustable table also.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on December 18, 2017, 11:32:43 AM
I've been doing what Dane did, only using a metal plate (a thin metal plate, with honkin' big holes in it for lightness -- it's 3003 aluminum, whatever gauge works out to 1/32").  Note that Dane and I put the tanks on the inboard -- this is supposed to work better on a profile.  I couldn't say for absolutely sure, but it seems to make for a happy engine run.

A Tower 40 should be a great engine on that plane.  I'd start out with an APC 11.5 x 4 prop; if you can't slow the plane down go to an APC 12.25 x 3.75 prop.

(https://stunthanger.com/smf/building-techniques/build-cartoon-scale-mooney-mite/?action=dlattach;attach=245116;image)
(https://stunthanger.com/smf/building-techniques/build-cartoon-scale-mooney-mite/?action=dlattach;attach=245118;image)
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 18, 2017, 02:52:18 PM
Both those fuel setups look really good and functional too! Never thought about inboard mounting either. Thanks, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on December 18, 2017, 03:16:02 PM
Both those fuel setups look really good and functional too! Never thought about inboard mounting either. Thanks, Tim

Functionally, the idea is that because the tank is inboard of the engine centrifugal force tends to pressurize the system -- and it does so more when you're going faster, and less so when you're going slower, lending a bit of speed regulation.  I dunno if that works.  On a more down-in-the-dirt practical level, it gives you lots more room for a fuel tank.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on December 18, 2017, 03:27:34 PM
On a more down-in-the-dirt practical level, it gives you lots more room for a fuel tank.

That's specifically why I do it. But from the speed guys who shim tanks vs adjusting needle valves, I can attest to the fuel feed changes. How much in our slower stunt application is this affect? I don't know either. But I like the consistency I get from these tank set up's.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 18, 2017, 08:17:43 PM
I decided to give covering the wing a try after supper. Not too bad. The iron was a good purchase and the hot air gun is a must! Thanks to Gil for Perry’s number and many thanks to Perry for his expertise using Monokote. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 23, 2017, 08:54:12 PM
I have the landing gear, engine and fuel tank to install and this Twister will be ready for her Maiden flight! It was a learning experience for me. The last plane that I built was a lil jumpin bean with a Pet .09 and covered with tissue. That was 45 years ago. This has been challenging and exciting to build. It is not perfect by any means but will use what I have learned on my next build. Many thanks to Bootlegger and everyone who helped me get this plane built! Merry Christmas to everyone, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: James Holford on December 23, 2017, 09:04:06 PM
I have the landing gear, engine and fuel tank to install and this Twister will be ready for her Maiden flight! It was a learning experience for me. The last plane that I built was a lil jumpin bean with a Pet .09 and covered with tissue. That was 45 years ago. This has been challenging and exciting to build. It is not perfect by any means but will use what I have learned on my next build. Many thanks to Bootlegger and everyone who helped me get this plane built! Merry Christmas to everyone, Tim
Thats what Im talkin about!!!!!!

Lookin good!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on December 23, 2017, 10:19:04 PM
Great job Tim! Wish I could say that I'm that far along on mine, Lately life has kept me from doing some of the things I want to do, including my twister build, but I will get it done. Let us know how the maiden goes....

Jim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 24, 2017, 04:02:43 AM
Thanks James and Jim. Will let y’all know how she flies. I am about to intall the landing gear now. Merry Christmas, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on December 24, 2017, 10:13:33 AM
Merry Christmas Tim. The plane looks great!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 24, 2017, 03:14:14 PM
Thanks Dane. Here it is! I have to install a clunk tank, thinking about converting it to uniflo, and it is finished!
Merry Christmas, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on December 24, 2017, 03:25:14 PM
  Looking good Tim! One thing about the plastic clunk tanks, is that they can be very versatile. With a little planning and vision, you can set it up as a regular suction tank or uniflow, and be able to switch it from pressure to vent to atmosphere and anything in between. Make sure you have the engine well broken in just to eliminate any issues there. Set the tank up with the fuel pick up about even with the center of the bypass port on the engine as it sits in the profile configuration, or about 1/2" above the engine center line. That will put you close on how it will run upright and inverted, and you can fine tune by just twisting the stopper to raise and lower the pick up. Making sure everything is straight, even and in adjustment before first flights is called "bench trim."  As you gain experience and learn more, you can  bench trim a model to be close enough in flight trim to do the pattern or most of it on the first flight! That does come with time and experience, and is the direct result of paying attention to details on every model you build and fly.
    Good  luck and have fun!
  MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR!
  Dan McEntee

     PS to Add:  I was just looking at the photo of your airplane and noticed the needle valve sticking way up above the nose. If that is a Super Tiger type needle valve, cut the length down to where it is flush with the top of the nose. This does two things: 1) when the needle is that long and unsupported, it can act like a tuning fork and make for some weird runs. You can not tighten the collet enough to fix it. I cut them down and rebend them, or solder some sort of knob like a small nut onto the end of the needle. 2) The other thing cutting it down does is it keeps it from being broken off in the event of an inverted landing of any kind, and you WILL experience those, so might as well plan for it. If the needle doesn't get caught and broken on the inverted landing, most times you can just clean the airplane up of debris and fly again right away. It's no fun throwing a whole needle valve assembly away just because the needle broke and it's stuck in the spray bar! Been there and done that a LOT!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: john e. holliday on December 24, 2017, 09:24:12 PM
By all means take that needle valve out of the engine, get a torch and heat it up red hot where you want the bend.  Then cut off the excess that was bent over.  I even do it my Fox needles on profile planes. H^^  Oh, and MERRY CHRISTMAS.  The plane still looks great.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 26, 2017, 08:25:12 PM
I had a chance to fly my Twister and it was great! The plane was easily trimmed out and the Tower 40 was very powerful too. Thanks to all who gave their advise and to Bootlegger for his inspiration, advise and the engine! Happy New Year to all, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on December 26, 2017, 10:56:45 PM
I had a chance to fly my Twister and it was great! The plane was easily trimmed out and the Tower 40 was very powerful too. Thanks to all who gave their advise and to Bootlegger for his inspiration, advise and the engine! Happy New Year to all, Tim

Awesome Tim! Happy New Year!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 26, 2017, 11:02:14 PM
Happy it was a success. Happy new year,  Tim.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on December 27, 2017, 12:33:01 PM
I had a chance to fly my Twister and it was great! The plane was easily trimmed out and the Tower 40 was very powerful too. Thanks to all who gave their advise and to Bootlegger for his inspiration, advise and the engine! Happy New Year to all, Tim

Good to hear!  That plane is a great stunt trainer.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Fredvon4 on December 27, 2017, 01:48:10 PM
You might be sorry for not building two or three.... perhaps not

What? November 11th to today is roughly 45 days ----and in the tread you had many non productive days for various reasons...we all do

NOT trying to be a butt head

The Twister Kit is one of the easier kits to copy
Of course a lot depends on the goal

if fun fly only... one only  and repair as needed is a good plan

if progressing in the PAMPA classes... two or three identical planes can make each flight trip MUCH more productive for NOT too much extra expense or work

BUT Tim... you did start a project.. got the stuff...asked the questions... took some of the advice and you have a flying model

That warm fuzzy you feel is REALLY what it is all about




Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: James Holford on December 27, 2017, 01:49:11 PM
Dude is gona pass me up in no time!!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on December 27, 2017, 02:21:29 PM
Dude is gona pass me up in no time!!!

In productivity, or handsomeness?

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: James Holford on December 27, 2017, 02:22:06 PM
In productivity, or handsomeness?
Haha everything!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on December 27, 2017, 02:34:18 PM
That's exactly why I had a thing for Margaret Thatcher. Power is sexy.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: James Holford on December 27, 2017, 02:36:17 PM
Tim is gona go straight to advanced!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 27, 2017, 06:20:10 PM
Well the plane flys way better than I do! Lol Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on December 28, 2017, 08:27:21 PM
So I got curious and decided to weigh my Twister. It weighs 40 ounces without fuel in the tank. Is this within a good weight? Thanks, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on December 28, 2017, 08:49:34 PM
Very nice sounding weight.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on December 28, 2017, 09:07:49 PM
Bueno, Tim.
My Banshee is a bit smaller than the Twister and it is 38oz.
Your Twister is fine weight, especially for the first build. /Fly the stew out of that thing!!

R,
Target
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on December 29, 2017, 03:39:06 PM
So I got curious and decided to weigh my Twister. It weighs 40 ounces without fuel in the tank. Is this within a good weight? Thanks, Tim

My Fancherized Twister weighs a quite-excessive 54 ounces, and puts be above the absolute bottom in Expert around here.  You should be fine at 40 ounces.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: MikeyPratt on January 03, 2018, 09:39:18 AM
Thanks Dane. Here it is! I have to install a clunk tank, thinking about converting it to uniflo, and it is finished!
Merry Christmas, Tim

Hi Tim,
You have done a great job on this Twister!  I don't know how many Twisters and Banshee's I've built over the years, but at least a dozen of each and many more fixing crash damage at Sig.  Many times I've helped repair the models at my work bench at Sig with help from some of the same Guy's you chatting with, Dan, Doc, and many more.  Heck one night I helped build a complete new model even helped the guy get it covered just so he could fly it in the next round.  I guess it was all part of having fun at a great contest at Sig with all the people and friends.

SN is a great place to get help and learn from experienced people so never hesitate to ask for help and advise.

Later,
Mikey
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 04, 2018, 09:33:56 AM
Thanks Mikey! I had a blast building this Twister and I learned a lot about building from the fine folks on this forum. It amazes me at the knowledge and level of expertise on here.  I also am learning a lot from my friends that I fly with. What a great hobby! Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dan McEntee on January 04, 2018, 09:12:04 PM
Thanks Mikey! I had a blast building this Twister and I learned a lot about building from the fine folks on this forum. It amazes me at the knowledge and level of expertise on here.  I also am learning a lot from my friends that I fly with. What a great hobby! Tim

   Hi Tim;
    We all have been where you are at. No one comes into this world with the ability to build 20 point models and fly 600 point pattern right off the bat! And most of us have been through the wars and learning curves without the benefit of the internet! But the journey was a fun and educational one that I would not change at all. I made the journey from beginner to the expert level over a period of about 17 years. I was still learning the full pattern when I attended my first SIG contest as a beginner. I was out of work at the time, and some friends helped me with the costs of the trip, but still I figured it would be the only time I could attend. Well, that first contest was in 1987, and I never missed a year up until the last one in 2012! Met many great people, made many fast friends, had so much fun I just cant tell you! Mikey Pratt was one of the reasons for that along with his and I hope my good friend, the late Mike Gretz, the designer of the Twister. The SIG family of employees, Hazel and Maxey Hester, and the towns people all made for an insured great time. Mikey used to announce at the pilots meeting on Saturday morning, " Anyone found NOT having a good time will be escorted from the field!" And it would have been impossible to find someone not having a good time. I need to get out the big box of photos and albums from those years and go through them. The stories would fill a large volume! And as Mikey said, a lot of the people responding to your thread were some of the usual suspects that gathered in Montezuma, Iowa on the fourth weekend in June every year! Enjoy the Twister. I have one framed up and covered with the initial coats of dope on it. It is a box stock Twister that will duplicate Mike Gretz's original, which, I understand is still around somewhere. As soon as I get a little more room in the garage, I plan to get it ready for paint and have it airborne this spring.
   Good luck and have fun,
    Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 05, 2018, 04:46:04 AM
Thanks Dan! You can bet that I am having the time of my life with C/L flying. It is a step back into a youthful time. It would be nice to read about and to see some of the photos of the people and planes that made this such a fun and family oriented sport. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on January 08, 2018, 02:35:05 PM
Tim, finally got some time to work on the Twister. Just a test fit, nothing glued yet but getting close. Yours looks great....have fun!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 08, 2018, 09:43:22 PM
Glad to see you are progressing with your Twister! It is looking really good! Send some pics as you build. My workbench is empty and it’s bothering me! Lol Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: john e. holliday on January 09, 2018, 10:38:53 AM
That Twister is looking good.  Click on the link below the picture and it shows up upright.   By the way your work area is to neat and clean. LL~ LL~ LL~
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on January 09, 2018, 03:17:54 PM
That Twister is looking good.  Click on the link below the picture and it shows up upright.   By the way your work area is to neat and clean. LL~ LL~ LL~

Thanks Doc! Well......I straightened up my bench before I took the picture, it was pretty cluttered. ;D
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on January 11, 2018, 01:48:44 PM
A little more work today on the twister. I did a mock-up on my down and dirty adjustable rudder using a Dubro ez-connecter. If I want to change rudder offset I'll just loosen the set screw, move the rudder, and tighten the set screw...done.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 11, 2018, 06:15:07 PM
Jim, I really like the adjustable rudder that you made! I also like the neat joint between the rudder and fuselage. Keep going with your build and keep the pictures coming too! Your Twister is looking really good. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on January 11, 2018, 10:14:20 PM
Thanks Tim, just wanted a simple way to change rudder offset. I need to get this thing done, get it trimmed, and get some practice in! Have you had a chance to fly yours anymore?
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 12, 2018, 07:03:13 PM
No Jim, just that first day. Might try tomorrow but is suppose to be very cold and windy. I am really getting the itch for some flight time! Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 13, 2018, 05:18:25 AM
Jim, with all this freezing weather down here do I smell hot cocoa and glue coming from your “hangar” this weekend? Lol  Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on January 13, 2018, 10:02:13 AM
Jim, with all this freezing weather down here do I smell hot cocoa and glue coming from your “hangar” this weekend? Lol  Tim

That's pretty amazing Tim, you have a good sniffer! The only thing I could add might be all this balsa dust floating around. ;D

Just got the hardwood mount for the tail wheel installed in the fuse and rough sanded.

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 13, 2018, 08:06:08 PM
Very nice work Jim! Your Twister is really coming along! Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 19, 2018, 04:40:23 PM
Hey Jim, how is the Twister coming? Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on January 20, 2018, 10:01:33 PM
Hi Tim,

It's coming along! Hope to have it together with the wing covered this week. Fuselage is in primer (painting the fuse and covering the wing in ultracote).
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 22, 2018, 04:25:59 PM
That is great! When you get a chance, post some pics. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on January 26, 2018, 02:18:38 PM
Ok Tim, got the fuse and wing glued. The fuse is primed and sanded. will cover the wing, flaps, horizontal stab and elevators with ultracote (yellow). Will then mask off the wing and stab and paint the fuse Banner Red followed by a clear coat of spray max 2k clear. I will end up with a Twister with adj leadouts and outboard tip weight, adj rudder, and adj tank height. Did away with the wire gear and replaced that with aluminum gear. It might be hard to see in the picture but I also added a cheek cowl made from 1/2" very light balsa.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 26, 2018, 02:58:25 PM
Jim, your Twister is really looking nice now! I like the cowl that you added! What make and model landing gear did you choose? I went with the stock and it leaves a lot to be desired. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on January 26, 2018, 04:06:24 PM
Tim, Brodak has aluminum gear for profile planes. The gear I used came off my 35 year old buster and will work great. There are a couple of gear on the Brodak site that I think will work for you. Look under: control line parts/ landing gear.
The two I think will work are BG-1776 and BG-1764. Give it a look, it should be easy to change over.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on January 27, 2018, 01:49:04 AM
Thanks Jim for the info on the LG. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: mike londke on January 27, 2018, 10:56:01 AM
I've been using these on my last few models. There is a larger/taller size available too. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/carbon-fiber-landing-gear-for-profile-model-40-60-class.html
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on January 27, 2018, 03:58:57 PM
Mike, that's even better! Thanks for sharing that link! I'm going to have to try those...
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Fredvon4 on January 28, 2018, 10:33:10 AM
I like the CF linked to above need to get a set or two

One of my profiles have duralum gear from Sig.. none in stock right now (probably never again)  from their ultimate Bipe as a replacement part

Most of my other profiles sport RSM distribution versions

Eric at RSM has two sizes that are slightly cheaper than the CF hobby king ones

http://www.rsmdistribution.com/index-2.htm

Look inside "Building supplies" "Landing gear"
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on February 01, 2018, 09:54:54 AM
Ok, got the wing covered this morning. Still need to do the wing tips, horizontal stab, and elevators. I'll get that done today. Then on to filleting the wing/fuse joint and final prep on the fuse for paint. Getting closer Tim....
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 02, 2018, 05:36:02 AM
Looking very good, Jim! Not sure about Texas but here in Louisiana, this weekend is a good one to work on things indoors! What motor are you going to use? Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on February 02, 2018, 06:50:34 AM
Hi Tim, going to use one of my many Fox .35's as I have  several that are in almost new condition with very little running time. (just break-in)
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 03, 2018, 07:02:52 AM
I’m just thinking but does anyone know if the mounting holes are the same for the Tower 40 and a OS 46 LA? Not really a big deal but wondering how the 46 would do on a Twister? Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on February 03, 2018, 08:00:20 AM
I’m just thinking but does anyone know if the mounting holes are the same for the Tower 40 and a OS 46 LA? Not really a big deal but wondering how the 46 would do on a Twister? Tim

My opinion, for what it's worth.... I like the 46LA, but I think it's a little excessive on a twister. It'll work just fine, I just don't feel it's necessary. I had a four stroke 30 on a twister. Currently I fly my twister with a magnum .28. It's more capable than I am at this point. It doesn't loose any power even with my hard corners (too hard in fact, but I'm still learning that).
If it were me, I would save the 46 for something a little bigger.  I got the imitation kit from Mike Griffin for my .46.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Dane Martin on February 03, 2018, 08:07:06 AM
PS, I'm not at all saying is a bad idea. The guys who use a 46 on their twister seem to love it. Shug has videos of flying his primary force (similar size and weight to a twister) with a 46. I fly my primary force with an os 25 LA. So both can work very well.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on February 03, 2018, 08:24:32 AM
Tim I believe the mount holes will interchange. I just measured the hole spacing between my Tower 40 and my 40 LA and they are very close. ( the difference being the Tower 40 has been drilled out for larger mounting bolts) I'm told that the 46 LA and 40 LA are the same case.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Bootlegger on February 03, 2018, 09:20:07 AM

  Tim, the tower, os fp35 & 40 and os la 40 & 46  all will innerchange. Hope that this helps..
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on February 03, 2018, 03:03:47 PM
Got the some paint on the fuselage today. Finally figured out how to get pics to display upright..... #^
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: RknRusty on February 03, 2018, 05:35:42 PM
Looking good, Jim.
My Twister began life with an FP.35. Now it has an FP.40 and I can barely fit enough fuel on board for a stunt run, and it may not be enough for cold weather. I haven't flown it at colder than 65F weather.
Btw, the LA.40 is heavier than the .46.
Rusty

Here's my Walter Umland version:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/oa4kle7kwsvwbft/Tazz-small.jpg?raw=1)
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: john e. holliday on February 03, 2018, 07:15:50 PM
Got the some paint on the fuselage today. Finally figured out how to get pics to display upright..... #^

Ah, must have turned your camera over. LL~ LL~ LL~ H^^
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 03, 2018, 07:23:15 PM
Your Twister is looking great! Nice Twister Rusty! Maybe the 46 is too much. I saw a good deal on a 46 and was thinking about the Twister but maybe for another plane. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: RknRusty on February 03, 2018, 09:00:45 PM
Tim, I'd say unless you can't justify spending the money, don't pass up a good deal on an LA.25 LA.46. They're too good to pass up. You'll use it on some plane sometime.
EDIT: Oops, I had LA.25 on the brain. But the same holds true of both engines.

Thanks for the compliment on my Twister. I'm pretty proud of that build. I fly it better than any other plane. I have a Cardinal on the table now.
Rusty
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on February 03, 2018, 09:13:04 PM
Ah, must have turned your camera over. LL~ LL~ LL~ H^^

Yep I did....
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Brett Buck on February 03, 2018, 09:50:58 PM
Your Twister is looking great! Nice Twister Rusty! Maybe the 46 is too much. I saw a good deal on a 46 and was thinking about the Twister but maybe for another plane. Tim

      It's more a matter of how well it runs than what size it is. All the likely candidates have far more than sufficient power capability, what matters is how well you can get them to run in this installation. The only issue with the larger engines is that you have to figure out how to get it to run well at 50% or less of capacity. These engines tend to like to run near full blast (since that is what they are designed to do) so getting it to run reliably at 85% is usually easier than 40%. With no pipe, you don't have full control over the power - I could make this airplane work with a PA75 and I know of people flying airplanes only slightly larger with PA65/75 or Jett 61s. It would be entirely pointless but you could certainly control the power well enough to make it work. It's much harder with only a muffler.

     For me, my Twister would end up in the mid-upper 30's, and I would use a 20/25FP or the "new" 25LA. That would require about "85%" of the capability of the engine, and put the in-flight setting at a medium 2-stroke. I know because I have seen that combination several times.

   If you use larger engines, you might have to experiment with venturi - *smaller* venturis - to adjust the power range and handle the relatively low RPM you will need to run.

     Brett
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on February 03, 2018, 11:27:25 PM
My Twister flies on a 46LA.  Granted, at 54 ounces it's a pig, but the 46LA does work well.  I just kept adjusting the venturi down until it was just small enough so that the engine would not away on a 11x4.5 ThunderTiger prop at my desired lap times.  I think you could take it down much further in power than that.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 04, 2018, 08:32:29 AM
Rusty, Brett and Tim( Tim is a nice name isn't it) I really appreciate all the information on these engines! There is so much to learn as my background is from my youth and 99% with a Cox .049. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on February 10, 2018, 11:13:23 PM
Tim, it's getting close. Got quite a bit done the last few days and expect to have it ready to go by tomorrow evening. I hope to get a chance to fly it this week if the weather goes my way.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: David Ruff on February 11, 2018, 04:57:09 AM

http://builtrightflyright.com/2017/kits/Glo/FTwister2017.htm
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Perry Rose on February 11, 2018, 05:49:09 AM
I have two Twisters, one scratch built from plans and one from a kit. Neither with the extended fuselage. I did lower the stabilizer closer to the thrust line on both. After flying both I extended the stab/elev span by 2.5 inches. Now both are more stable and turn better. The scratch built has a Fox .35 and the kit has an O.S. .32F. The scratch built has 1/4 inch stab/elev the kit has kit parts.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 11, 2018, 06:11:24 AM
That is one nice looking Twister Jim! I hope the weather holds out so you can fly today. Let us know how it flies. Happy landings, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on February 11, 2018, 08:06:24 AM
Tim, thank you for the well wishes! It's been over 35 years since I've built a control line kit, and I spent a lot of time making sure I got this one as close to perfectly straight as I could make it. It will probably have a short life as I get re-acquainted with the pattern.

David, thanks for the link. I love the looks of the Fancherized Twister.

Perry, Mine will use a Fox .35 as well because I have several that are in very good shape. I have a Tower .40 and a OS .40 LA with Jim Lee venturie's / NVA's. One of these will go in the next project. (Smoothie)
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on February 11, 2018, 08:18:56 PM
Almost done! Setting up the control system with carbon rod and ball links, and then all that's left is terminating the lead-outs. Weight at present is 36oz. I'm confident that it will be close to 38oz dry RTF.

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 12, 2018, 03:58:42 AM
Jim, that Twister is awesome and the low weight is excellent too! I hope the weather does hold out, I’m anxious to fly too! I am waiting on my next project, a Reilly Wooten Sneeker. Good luck on your Smoothie. It should turn out just as fine as your Twister. Let us know how it flies. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 16, 2018, 10:23:11 AM
Food luck this weekend Jim. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Bootlegger on February 16, 2018, 12:02:41 PM
  Food luck, I'm for that.. LOL LOL   y1 y1 #^ #^ n~ n~
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on February 16, 2018, 04:20:32 PM
Sounds yummy!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 16, 2018, 09:07:44 PM
Lol! I meant good luck! Well, down here in Louisiana we do mix our good times with good food! Hey Gil, that might be an idea, we could cook a jambalaya or something on our weekend flying! Just a thought, Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on February 16, 2018, 09:26:59 PM
Fly n Grind.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 17, 2018, 03:53:33 AM
Fly n Grind.

Or Fly n Fry! Lol Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on February 17, 2018, 09:24:12 PM
I'm in for that Tim! I love Cajun food!  #^
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on February 26, 2018, 04:38:45 PM
Hey Tim, first flight on the Twister today. It flew good, but needs more trim flights to get it better. Thanks for letting me participate in your thread!
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on February 26, 2018, 04:56:41 PM
Glad you got a chance to fly your Twister! No problem with the thread at all, I actually enjoyed watching you build your plane and many thanks to everyone who helped both of us with our builds! Let us know how she trims and congrats to you. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on March 09, 2018, 11:20:51 AM
Hi Tim, sad news to report on the Twister. I went out on Wednesday to get some more trim flights and crashed the plane. Oh well, I guess I get to build another one! I'm sure this was my fault due to something I did wrong in trying to trim.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: RknRusty on March 09, 2018, 07:24:29 PM
Ouch, Jim! Sorry to hear, that's surely frustrating.
I hope you'll tell us the story and allow us to inspect the carnage on tonight's show.
You have our condolences,
Rusty
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on March 09, 2018, 07:46:06 PM
Very sorry to hear about your Twister! I know how much effort you put into it. Can it be repaired? Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 09, 2018, 08:38:48 PM
Hi Tim, sad news to report on the Twister. I went out on Wednesday to get some more trim flights and crashed the plane. Oh well, I guess I get to build another one! I'm sure this was my fault due to something I did wrong in trying to trim.

Just how unrepairable is it?  Twisters are built simply enough that it takes a lot before you just can't bring one back from the dead.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on March 10, 2018, 08:01:32 AM
I believe I could repair it, would need a wing kit though and I certainly may do that when I get the urge. Right now I have already turned my attention to a (new in the box) ARF Smoothie that I had on the self. I got it at a swap meet I went to a few weeks ago and made a very good deal. Should be a quick build. When that's done I'll probably get on the Twister repair.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: James Holford on March 10, 2018, 02:39:09 PM
I believe I could repair it, would need a wing kit though and I certainly may do that when I get the urge. Right now I have already turned my attention to a (new in the box) ARF Smoothie that I had on the self. I got it at a swap meet I went to a few weeks ago and made a very good deal. Should be a quick build. When that's done I'll probably get on the Twister repair.
And if not. Great thing is this kit is easy to wcratch from the looks.

Jim I also sent you a friend request on FB.


Tim, only your twister kit.... was the leading edge stock the exact length on the plans out of the box? The other kit I had the LE was longer so you can add extra ribs on each end. This new one I have matches exactly. So I reckon I will build stock .



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Target on March 10, 2018, 09:15:06 PM
Scarf an extension onto the outboard tip of the LE....
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Chenevert on March 11, 2018, 04:21:11 AM
And if not. Great thing is this kit is easy to wcratch from the looks.

Jim I also sent you a friend request on FB.


Tim, only your twister kit.... was the leading edge stock the exact length on the plans out of the box? The other kit I had the LE was longer so you can add extra ribs on each end. This new one I have matches exactly. So I reckon I will build stock .


My LE was exactly like the plans. Tim
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Brett Buck on March 11, 2018, 02:41:33 PM
I believe I could repair it, would need a wing kit though and I certainly may do that when I get the urge. Right now I have already turned my attention to a (new in the box) ARF Smoothie that I had on the self. I got it at a swap meet I went to a few weeks ago and made a very good deal. Should be a quick build. When that's done I'll probably get on the Twister repair.

   It's too bad you crashed, but it is an intrinsic part of the process. The important thing is that you don't get held up by it for any significant length of time. I would strongly encourage you to repair it first, so you have it to fly, rather than hold up for another month or two building something else.

     Brett
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: jim ballard on March 12, 2018, 01:25:50 PM
Thanks Brett, and yes sir, crashing is intrinsic to the process. I don't plan to be out of the circle for long. In fact I'm heading to my practice circle this afternoon to do some flying. I learned some things too, which is also intrinsic to the process (if we let it) and I think makes this hobby enjoyable even when we crash. Motivation to learn, apply what we learn so we can gain experience. As a good friend of mine always says " There's a direct correlation between scar tissue and experience".  ;D
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 12, 2018, 01:40:39 PM
Tim, only your twister kit.... was the leading edge stock the exact length on the plans out of the box? The other kit I had the LE was longer so you can add extra ribs on each end. This new one I have matches exactly. So I reckon I will build stock .

I think the Twister has a pretty good aspect ratio and wing area as-is.  I wouldn't change that part of it.  Fancherize one, now, that's a different story.
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: James Holford on March 12, 2018, 01:41:25 PM
I think the Twister has a pretty good aspect ratio and wing area as-is.  I wouldn't change that part of it.  Fancherize one, now, that's a different story.
Youre right I was totally thinking of the Akromaster!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Brett Buck on March 12, 2018, 09:47:14 PM
Thanks Brett, and yes sir, crashing is intrinsic to the process. I don't plan to be out of the circle for long. In fact I'm heading to my practice circle this afternoon to do some flying. I learned some things too, which is also intrinsic to the process (if we let it) and I think makes this hobby enjoyable even when we crash. Motivation to learn, apply what we learn so we can gain experience. As a good friend of mine always says " There's a direct correlation between scar tissue and experience".  ;D
   
     The nice thing about a Twister is that as long as Hot Stuff and packing tape exist, there's almost nothing you can't fix at the field.

    Brett
Title: Re: Twister kit question
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 13, 2018, 11:00:56 AM
     The nice thing about a Twister is that as long as Hot Stuff and packing tape exist, there's almost nothing you can't fix at the field.

 (PE**)

That's why I built my Twister.  Because I was crashing all the time.  During construction, I stopped crashing -- it hasn't undergone unauthorized contact with the ground since it was built five years ago, aside from falling off of my car once or twice.