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Author Topic: To what degree?  (Read 2465 times)

Offline Allan Leonard

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To what degree?
« on: January 22, 2018, 01:58:19 PM »
New here and back after a long hiatus from C/L. Wow, what happened to all the kits that were so readily available? Like I said, a long hiatus. Anyway, I picked up a FW-190 from Brodak and have a question. This kit has the flaps and elevator coupled but no mention of range of movement. Is there a rule of thumb on flight control movement that could at least give me a place to start in stunt?   

Thanks,
Allan Leonard

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: To what degree?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 10:59:22 AM »
If you build the kit per instructions, you should be fine on control movements.  Have several Brodak kits built box stock and they fly better than the pilot does. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: To what degree?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2018, 07:02:40 AM »
That would trigger a long discussion or maybe even a donnybrook.

In real airplanes that I flew, the elevator would go up 40-45 degrees, which was needed only for landing and slow flight.  At high speed, you only need a few degrees.

I think models are pretty much the same.  You only need a little at high speed, but you still need a lot in a few situations. 
Better to risk a slight stall in maneuvers than to need full up and not have it when you really need it.
Paul Smith

Online Brett Buck

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Re: To what degree?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2018, 08:31:30 AM »
New here and back after a long hiatus from C/L. Wow, what happened to all the kits that were so readily available? Like I said, a long hiatus. Anyway, I picked up a FW-190 from Brodak and have a question. This kit has the flaps and elevator coupled but no mention of range of movement. Is there a rule of thumb on flight control movement that could at least give me a place to start in stunt?   

     Without any other information to go on, there are two things you have to consider, and they aren't the same thing, exactly. One is the ratio of flap movement to elevator movement, i.e. how fast does the elevator move with respect to the flap. The ideal ratio depends in a lot of things, like the flying weight and the size of the flaps with respect to the elevator. *If it was me*, and not having seen the model, I would suggest starting at 1:1, that is, the angle of the flap and the elevator are the same (but in opposite directions, of course). Then adjust from there based on how it flies - if's it's too "swoopy" in the corners, reduce the flap travel with respect to the elevator, or speed up the elevator with respect to the flap. If it wants to stall in the corners, or seems like it wants to swing back and forth in pitch at the exit of corners, then increase the flap travel with respect to the elevator.

    In a practical sense, everybody makes the elevator horn adjustable to deal with this and be able to tweak it. It can be a very sensitive adjustment, but the traditional "3 holes" in the elevator horn are intended to give you the ability to adjust the elevator travel. Most full-house stunt planes have a sliding block that the pushrod goes through, so you can adjust it in very small increments. Also, many full-house stunt planes have removable flaps and elevators, made by replacing the individual pins in the hinges with a single wire you can pull out and take the whole flap off. That's convenient for several reasons, but it permits you do make different-sized flaps to do a different type of adjustment. I find that 1:1 and adjusting the flap size has worked better for me than leaving the flaps alone and adjusting the movement ratio, but for your application, I think being able to adjust the flap/elevator movement is sufficient. You can always build the next one differently if you want.

   The other factor is how much total travel the controls have. As noted, you probably only need maybe +-15 degrees total movement in flight. But, how fast it moves for a given handle motion is very important, and there isn't and shouldn't be anything specifically intended to limit the total travel inside the airplane (like stops on the bellcrank, or something like that). Typically, the controls end up being limited by something in the hinges or the bellcrank coming the end of travel or binding.

    The rate of movement for the amount of handle motion controls how sensitive the model is on the controls - lots of control movement for a small handle motion  = twitchy, little control movement for a large handle motion  = sluggish. This is controlled by the ratios of the controls with respect to the bellcrank (it's really fast if you use the outer hole in the bellcrank and really slow if you use the inner hole), the size of the bellcrank, and the size of the handle. If you get about +-30-40 degrees of elevator motion from one end of the bellcrank motion to the other, that will probably be about right, and you can adjust the handle spacing to make it feel right to you. If moving the leadouts an inch moves it from one end to the other, that's probably too fast.

    Brett

Offline Allan Leonard

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Re: To what degree?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 08:54:03 AM »
Thank you Brett, that is above and beyond what I was looking for but I'm grateful that you included it all. This has been a tremendous boost to my understanding. 

Allan Leonard


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