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Building Tips and technical articles. => Building techniques => Topic started by: Clint Ormosen on March 24, 2019, 11:54:44 AM
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I having trouble finding a good filler material. My “go to” filler was Sig Epoxilite. Yes I know know it dries like cement and difficult to sand, but it was easy to work with and I could shape it so that very minimal sanding was required. Now I’m using the blue stuff (aeropoxy light??) and I’m not digging it. I can’t seem to ever get it shaped right and it’s just as hard as expoxilite is to sand. Seems ok for wing fillets but around canopies or anything else I hate it. Isn’t there something out there more sandable than these 2 part epoxy fillers?
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I was delighted to read of your rekindled enthusiasm.
Welcome to the ranks of Those Who Hate the Blue Stuff. Now there are two of us. I may look into getting T-shirts.
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I was delighted to read of your rekindled enthusiasm.
Welcome to the ranks of Those Who Hate the Blue Stuff. Now there are two of us. I may look into getting T-shirts.
Size 3X please.
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"Welcome to the ranks of Those Who Hate the Blue Stuff. Now there are two of us. I may look into getting T-shirts. "
Make that THREE!
My first batch actually got VERY warm and even started to smoke!! %^@
Was afraid it would engulf the plane in flames, perhaps later that night!! HB~>
So I abandoned the process and returned to Micro Balloons and Finishing Resin.
XL shirt please...
"Tight Lines!" H^^
Wes
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I don't know if you are referring to Super-Fil and "the blue stuff" or not, as I have never used it. There have been plenty of posts praising it's virtues, so it must have some redeeming social value! Like Ty mentions, are you just wanting to fill dings and dents, or make fillets? I'll have to try the stuff he posted photos of to fill dents and dings. For fillets, I use finish cure epoxy mixed with micro balloons. finish cure epoxy, like the old Smooth-N-Easy, and the stuff Bob Smith Industries markets, is 20 minute stuff in normal use. But when you add the micro balloons, it slows down considerably, to more than an hour, so lots of time to work it. I apply as usual, with a pop cycle stick or similar, and carve it out to where it satisfies me. Then as it starts to kick off, you can dip your finger in alcohol and drag it smoother than a baby's butt. If you need to sand it, it sands just fine. It takes dope and any kind of paint I have used on it with no lifting in the fillets. I haven't been able to build much in the last ten years or so, so it never made economic sense to buy another product that may go bad sitting on the work bench. I sue the finish cure epoxy for coating engine and fuel tank compartments, laying up fiber glass, and other repair jobs where the thin viscosity come in handy, so I always have that around. It can be used to fill dents and dings also.I hope to get a lot of practice at this in the coming year or so!
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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I'm honestly curious about what it is (specifically) that a few dislike about the "blue stuff"?
For fillet work, I was instantly sold on Super Fil the first time I tried it. Personally, I can't imagine anything better. For whatever the task is I just scoop a desired amount out onto a piece of poster board, simply eyeballing a 2:1 ratio. Then mix it very thoroughly until it's a consistent light blue color all the way through. From there I apply it to the model and then form whatever the fillet may be all the way to it's final shape, the last step of that process being to smooth it nicely with a finger dipped in rubbing alcohol. From there, once it's cured, it requires no further sanding to shape, only a thorough scuffing with 400 or 600 as a final preparation for your finish. How can it get any easier than that?
As far as small nicks and dents in the bare wood go I just use white drywall spackling, it's super cheap and works great.
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I have only had one Super-fil kit. It was too stiff. I asked Aircraft Spruce, from whom I got it, if it was a fresh batch. They assured me that it was. I’ll get a new batch before I try it on an airplane again. Where are you blue-stuff enthusiasts getting yours?
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I got mine from Aircraft Spruce. Like Wayne I have had good results and it make for a strong joint on a rebuild. Doesn't run all over the place when applying. Yes it is stiff as making a batch of cement. I now reach up and rotate the jugs as it keeps separating. D>K
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Super Fill is the blue stuff I referred to in my OP (I mis quoted as aeropoxy)
Most specifically, I'm having trouble with canopy fillets. They never seem to come out smooth and the Blue stuff just doesn't sand/shape worth a damn, but fillers like spackle have no strength and sometimes react to dope over them.
The blue stuff is fine for wing fillets as those are usually very uniform all the way around the wing where it's easy to just use an exacto handle or something to get your radius.
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I get mine from Aircraft Spruce too.
The set that I just finally used up was on my shelf for at least 5-6 years. Over that time it did "stiffen" up some from new, but not much. Because of that from-the-jar stiffness I'll agree that it can be a small trick to get a batch started. Just keep mashing the two colors against each other though and it will eventually start to soften. I've learned to just keep mixing until you think you're done, then mix it a little more. This process doesn't take as long as it may sound. By the time it's a uniform blue color all the way through it will have a very nice working consistency without wanting to run all over the place on you like epoxy/micro balloons etc.
I'll only work on one side of the model at a time, usually all the way around a wing root or a stab/fin/rudder area per batch mixed. Don't bite off too much work per batch and you'll have plenty of working time. Once your work is fully cured then flip the model over and work on the other side. I don't recall the suggested wait time but I always give it at least 24 hours before I get near it with sandpaper. On average I probably end up mixing 6 to 8 separate batches to do all the fillet work on a typical model. IMO Super Fil is great stuff once you develop a "feel" for it.
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I like the Elmer's wood filler. not the "plastiwood" wtuff. you can get it in big 32oz tubs, or smaller ones as well. you can also dial in how thick you need it by adding a couple drops of water before application. sands like butter, and takes dope well as far as I can tell. I wouldn't use it to fill larger holes or gaps, but for small ones, seams between panels, etc, works great!
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/paint-and-supplies/patch-and-repair/wood-filler/1011998
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Clint,
Kind of strange you having problems with Super Fil. After the demise of Epoxolite I switched to Aeropoxy Lite. It was vastly superior to SIG. The only problen was size of containers ie: quart and a half minimum. Also shelf life. It was smoother
than SIG and easier to sand. Super Fil comes in smaller containers, shelf life is longer and sanding is even easier. One caution is that with Super Fil both the base and hardener need to be stirred completely before each use. Make sure and use different mixing sticks to stir. It is very easy to contaminate one of the components. Disgard each stick after stirring. Measure componrents by weight on an accurate gram scale for mixing. Shelf life after mixing is about 45 minutes at 70F.
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finishing resin and corn starch works great for me .sands great
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SuperFil. All day long. If you want brown filler, West Systems 105, 205 hardener and 410 filler.
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There’s a few interesting ideas here, but the consensus seems to be that I just need more practice with the Superfil.
Perhaps I should buy a new batch to practice with, though. What I have was bought 7-8 years ago but the jars aren’t dated.
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What I have was bought 7-8 years ago but the jars aren’t dated.
If it's been sealed well the whole time I wouldn't be afraid of trying it. Like someone mentioned above, give each jar a thorough stir before pulling some out to mix a batch. And yeah, USE SEPARATE STICKS. You could then test it by just mixing up a small batch on a piece of cardboard and letting it cure. If it cures up well, give it a test sanding to check it out and you should be good to go.
Oh, BTW, If anyone needs a small amount I still have this left over from our last club swap meet... ;D
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Epoxy of any kind used for filling dings and low spots is difficult. That's because epoxy is hard, and balsa is soft. Sanding will result in uneven surface. Your filler should be the same density as balsa. If you insist on epoxy, then mix lots of micro balloons to make it less dense. Where mechanical strength is not required, then a type of spackling putty is easier to blend into balsa.
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Super Fill is the blue stuff I referred to in my OP (I mis quoted as aeropoxy)
Most specifically, I'm having trouble with canopy fillets. They never seem to come out smooth and the Blue stuff just doesn't sand/shape worth a damn, but fillers like spackle have no strength and sometimes react to dope over them.
The blue stuff is fine for wing fillets as those are usually very uniform all the way around the wing where it's easy to just use an exacto handle or something to get your radius.
Use alcohol instead of water, then it smooths out just like epoxolite.
Brett
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Use alcohol instead of water, then it smooths out just like epoxolite.
Brett
Yep, and don't be afraid to use plenty, it'll evaporate off quickly and won't hurt a thing.
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Use alcohol instead of water, then it smooths out just like epoxolite.
Brett
Thanks! Cunha mentioned the same thing to me last night. I’ll try it next time I use it. Water had always worked well for Epoxolite but not so much for superfil.
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I have only had one Super-fil kit. It was too stiff. I asked Aircraft Spruce, from whom I got it, if it was a fresh batch. They assured me that it was. I’ll get a new batch before I try it on an airplane again. Where are you blue-stuff enthusiasts getting yours?
Spencer Aircraft, Thun field.
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Thanks! Cunha mentioned the same thing to me last night. I’ll try it next time I use it. Water had always worked well for Epoxolite but not so much for superfil.
Yes!!!
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Yep, I get mine from Spencer Aircraft.
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Yep, I get mine from Spencer Aircraft.
Where is Spencer located? I always used Aircraft Spruce because they were in CA, so I got things shipped here quickly.
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Hi gang,
I shot this photo some time ago, to remind myself just how nicely "Super-Fil" sanded. The sanding
dust was left on the sample, and the sanding rod was 'tapped off" to show that there was no
clogging of the sand paper.
It was purchase a long time ago, so I don't remember the source, but I do remember it was
the most "user friendly" filleting material I have ever used. If the mixture gets hot, or if it
is hard to sand after curing, I would suspect that it might not have had the proper ratio in
the mixture.
Cheers.
Warren Wagner
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Where is Spencer located? I always used Aircraft Spruce because they were in CA, so I got things shipped here quickly.
Did a search on Yahoo and came up with the following: Spencer Aircraft, Thun Field, Puyallup Wa, Phone 253 948 9349. Super Fil Epoxy Filler part A & B quart $22.90. And worth every penny. S?P