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Author Topic: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination  (Read 2189 times)

Offline Peter Nevai

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Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« on: August 12, 2017, 03:36:13 PM »
Ya'all may have recollection of a certain RSM Pathfinder I was building a good ways back. Well it is still in the same state you last saw it. The stagnation can be traced back to three root causes. 1. Lack of a space to sand and effectively work on the model, 2. Could not figure out how to both taper and shape the stab according to the plan, 3. See #1.

Well now I have ditched the part time, second home, minuscule, studio apt in NY and I am back at HOME!!! in Relentlessly Sunny Florida, I have a garage and patio where I can create copious amounts of balsa dust without having to vacuum for 48 hours to get it out of everything including body cavities. Also I have my home office which has a nice flat, big, 1/2 thick glass desk top upon which to build. Oh the JOY, I have access to my air brushes, tools, toys,....... excuse me while I lovingly caress my Roybi laser level and SnapOn roll about tool chest.

So now that I have everything situated, I've been glancing at the Stab for this plane. Sometimes I even take it in my hands and ponder a while. I almost get the urge to do something with it but then I remember how much I hate sanding and since the plans show a taper and airfoil, soon I am breaking out in a cold sweat and the stab goes right back on the shelf. So I start looking at maybe buying a different kit to build, perhaps another Brodak Vector 40 or maybe the profile pathfinder. Of course at that point I have this whole internal dialog with my self..... I say SELF! You bought all the hardware, aluminum spinner, tank, OS46VF, Tuned Pipe header,Three blade Majik carbon prop, wheels, monokote, and have finished two thirds of all the construction. So Why are you even thinking about starting something else????  To which I answer "Because I am a sniveling coward and that stab is scaring the crap out of me!

Normally I would not obsess over such things but How the F...K am I going to shape the stab so it sits flat on the fuselage sides which are flat straight edges. The sides were not laser cut to follow any sort of airfoil shape. I have no incidence meter, and the plane is already tooo big for any work surface I have. Quoting one of my favorite line form My Cousin Vinney "What a F***n Nightmare!" Someone please tell me it is OK to leave the stab flat and just taper the leading edge a bit. Else explain to me how to deal with this as my sanity hangs in the balance..... :) No please excuse me while I go onto the patio and water the plants. YES!! I now have PLANTS! :)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 04:33:16 PM by Peter Nevai »
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Offline Kim Doherty

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 04:15:56 PM »
Peter

Here is your permission slip. As long as the full dimension of the stabilizer block will not cause an issue with the mounting area on the fuselage -yes- you could just shape the leading edge with a sharpish shape and you should be okay. If you want to do this properly send me your phone# and I will walk you completely through the process.

Kim

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 05:22:46 PM »
Leave it the full flat cross section where it glues to fuse side, sand, shape, airfoil the rest.
Allan Perret
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Offline Peter Nevai

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 12:25:43 AM »
Thanks Guys, but I was hoping for a little more thorough explanation. I mean I could have figured out that I should leave the center section flat. But how exactly would you do that and still have the transition from where the stab meets the fuse not looking totally wrong or weird. Remember the fuse is wider at the front of the stab and gets narrower towards the trailing edge of the stab. Then the top block which goes over the stab has to be accounted for as it is put in place after the stab shaped and installed. Below is a photo. The bane of my existance.
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Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 06:54:54 AM »
Thanks Guys, but I was hoping for a little more thorough explanation. I mean I could have figured out that I should leave the center section flat. But how exactly would you do that and still have the transition from where the stab meets the fuse not looking totally wrong or weird. Remember the fuse is wider at the front of the stab and gets narrower towards the trailing edge of the stab. Then the top block which goes over the stab has to be accounted for as it is put in place after the stab shaped and installed. Below is a photo. The bane of my existance.
Align stab in fuse, but don't glue. Mark the fuse taper on stab top and bottom.  Remove stab and protect that center area with masking tape, proceed with tapering. 
Allan Perret
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Slidell, Louisiana

Offline Peter Nevai

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2017, 07:06:12 PM »
All righty then, I got over the fear of sanding, but not the dislike of sanding. Even taking the Stab outside I still managed to get balsa dust inside, and found myself sneezing, runny nose and all. So the build shall progress. Now I will mount the Stab and finish installing the top block. Lastly I need to sand the rudder to shape. Now here is the question??? Ready? By default I have sanded an asymmetrical airfoil into the rudder with the flat facin towards the inside of the circle. I have not used any rudder offset since my profile kit days. Now the plans show a fixed symmetrical rudder. I am debating whether to go my usual route or leave it according to plans.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2017, 07:16:25 PM »
Peter,

Generally when the rudder has an airfoil, the flat side is on the outside of the circle, or the side you cannot see when the model is flying. You might have that backwards unless I read you wrong?

CB
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Offline Peter Nevai

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2017, 08:39:52 PM »
Peter,

Generally when the rudder has an airfoil, the flat side is on the outside of the circle, or the side you cannot see when the model is flying. You might have that backwards unless I read you wrong?

CB

You are absolutely correct, I got my port (inside) and starboard (outside) reversed. The flat goes on the outside.
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Offline Trostle

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2017, 10:17:19 PM »
The plans for Gordan Delaney's Pathfinder show NO rudder offset and NO airfoil in the rudder.  The Pathfinder is a really good flying airplane.  It would be best to build it like the plans show.

Keith

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2017, 11:49:22 PM »
All righty then, I got over the fear of sanding, but not the dislike of sanding. Even taking the Stab outside I still managed to get balsa dust inside, and found myself sneezing, runny nose and all. So the build shall progress. Now I will mount the Stab and finish installing the top block. Lastly I need to sand the rudder to shape. Now here is the question??? Ready? By default I have sanded an asymmetrical airfoil into the rudder with the flat facin towards the inside of the circle. I have not used any rudder offset since my profile kit days. Now the plans show a fixed symmetrical rudder. I am debating whether to go my usual route or leave it according to plans.

    I would fix that, and additionally, install a *small* adjustable rudder so that you can adjust it for *0* offset even after you have built it when trimming.  When you are close to the right trim, even tiny changes or misalignment in the rudder become critical.

   It is *vital* to align the fin and rudder accurately DEAD STRAIGHT AHEAD (and that the wing/stab are perpendicular to the fuselage) and DEAD PERPENDICULAR to the wing and tail. Even a slight misalignment in the wrong direction can cause all sorts of problems. Locally, I have seen the fin completely off an airplane that had already won the NATs to remove a slight misalignment, after which it won the NATs again (and was more consistent all the rest of the time). Another 2-time NATs winner has a series of Zona saw kerfs cut in the rudder to straighten it out, all done out in the middle of a field in Napa.


     Brett

Offline Peter Nevai

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2017, 02:05:35 PM »
Thanks guys, I know the vertical stab must be dead on forward, I already installed an adjustable trim tab on the outboard wing ala the vector, so given that the leadouts are adjustable, the elvevator throw is adjustable, the wing tip weight is adjustable, adding another adjustment point in my mind at least is another thing to fiddle with or go out of wack. Y'all either fly serious competition, or like a myriad of things you can tweak because you enjoy it. Me all I want is a model that goes where I point it and dos'nt do anything nasty. Brett if I add a adjustment to the rudder how large a section should it be as the Rudder section on the pathfinder is pretty big. Obviously if I put in a rudder adjustment then I will not airfoil the rudder / vertical stab.
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Tapered and Airfoil on Stab.... Reasons for procrastination
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2017, 11:18:04 AM »
Thanks guys, I know the vertical stab must be dead on forward, I already installed an adjustable trim tab on the outboard wing ala the vector, so given that the leadouts are adjustable, the elvevator throw is adjustable, the wing tip weight is adjustable, adding another adjustment point in my mind at least is another thing to fiddle with or go out of wack. Y'all either fly serious competition, or like a myriad of things you can tweak because you enjoy it. Me all I want is a model that goes where I point it and dos'nt do anything nasty. Brett if I add a adjustment to the rudder how large a section should it be as the Rudder section on the pathfinder is pretty big. Obviously if I put in a rudder adjustment then I will not airfoil the rudder / vertical stab.

      Don't airfoil it either way! There's no point to carefully aligning it if you are going to airfoil it anyway. Adding an airfoil and angling a symmetrical fin for outboard yaw are one and the same thing, they both cause exactly the same thing, nose-out yaw. Same with the rudder adjustment  - that exists primarily to permit the thing to be adjusted straight ahead to cover for the fact that something else might be misaligned. The rudder adjustment ISN'T there to permit you to add rudder offset on purpose.

      I would guess a 3/4"=1" chord for about the depth of the fuselage or a little longer would be what you want as far as size. If you make the rudder full-span, the chances of it being too sensitive are high, and you want it to be as close as possible to the centerline of the airplane so adjusting it doesn't also create roll adjustments.

     Brett

     


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