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Author Topic: Tank for profile  (Read 1153 times)

Online kevin king

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Tank for profile
« on: January 20, 2023, 01:42:06 PM »
My friend requested me to get him a tank for his soon to be built Sig Twister. When i asked him what kind of tank he wanted, he said the same one i ordered for his Bi Slob. He said it worked last time. Is this true? I dont want to order one that wont work. One plane is a full fuse, the other a profile fuse, so i want to make sure the tank he wants will work. Its also a a standard vent. Should i get a uniflow instead? Pictured below is the one he  wants to instal on a profile.

Online Dennis Toth

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Re: Tank for profile
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2023, 02:18:02 PM »
Assuming he is using a glow 2 cycle I would say the uniflow tank is the way to go. Is his intent to fly in competition? If yes would likely need 4oz (35 - 40 engine) 3oz might be ok if FP 25. If a 4 stroke then that tank should work, they like standard venting.

Best,    DennisT
« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 06:16:51 PM by Dennis Toth »

Offline Dwayne Donnelly

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Re: Tank for profile
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2023, 05:13:45 PM »
Second everything Dennis said.  y1
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Online kevin king

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Re: Tank for profile
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2023, 06:54:06 PM »
Quote from: Dennis Toth link=topic=63022.msg650549#msg650549 date=1674249482 If a 4 cycle then that tank should work, they like standard venting.

Best,    DennisT
[/quote
He wont be flying any pattern just level, climbs and dives. The motor will be either a fox 35 or an La 40. I also dont quite know what you mean be 4 cycle. i am guessing 4 cycle engine and not firing every other revolution.

Thanks for the replies.
Kevin

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Tank for profile
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2023, 07:21:53 PM »
[quote author=Dennis Toth link=topic=63022.msg650549#msg650549 date=1674249482 If a 4 cycle then that tank should work, they like standard venting.

Best,    DennisT
 He wont be flying any pattern just level, climbs and dives. The motor will be either a fox 35 or an La 40. I also dont quite know what you mean be 4 cycle. i am guessing 4 cycle engine and not firing every other revolution.

Thanks for the replies.
Kevin

      I think he means that if the engine is a 4 stroke, than 3 ounces of fuel might be enough for the pattern.  That tank should work just fine. It may run a bit different because it's not right behind the engine, outboard position of centerline . Just have to account for that on the take off setting. If it is a standard tank, it will just lean out a bit towards the end of the flight, about an ounce or less left. Some guys actually like that extra power when flying the pattern.  Install two (2) copper tubes through the fuselage between the engine and the tank, up near the top of the fuselage, parallel to each other about 1.2" apart. Run a fuel line from the over flow to the back tube and cap it off for flight. The forward tube has a 90 degree bend in it so it is facing forward. This is left open to atmosphere, prop wash and wind. Run the fuel line from the fill tube to this tube. When running and in the air, this will slightly pressurize the tank as the fuel load runs down and offset the tendency to lean out a bit. You fill the tank at this tube also. This set up lets you fuel your model with less mess, and gets you tip top full and won't syphon if left sitting on the ground. A similar set up can be made for the Bi-Slob or other full fuselage models. Kick the back or the tank out just a bit also.
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Tank for profile
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2023, 12:30:44 AM »
That tank will work fine on a profile. For doing some mild flying it is a good choice, but you do have other good options, too. A few comments:

(Forgive me if you already have considered all of these....)

--Compare the position of the middle of the tank volume to the jet hole in the spraybar. The better these match up laterally, the easier it will be to get a steady engine run. With a profile plane, the engine is (almost always) side-mounted, so the tank position is not as bad as you might assume when comparing it to an upright engine in a full fuselage model. Most spraybars are 1/2" from the bottom of the engine mounting lugs.

--The tank you show is the "medium wedge" meaning it is only 1-3/4" wide, not the full 2".  This helps a lot to even out the run of the engine from the beginning of the tank to the end of the tank. The geometry (hydraulics) say that there is too much pressure head when the tank is full, and too little at the end. So the engine will continue to speed up as the amount of fuel in the tank is reduced. A wide tank makes this problem worse.

--The speedup can be mitigated to a certain extent by running pressure from the muffler (if installed) to one of the tank vents--yes, even on a standard vent tank like the one you show. But you must cap off the other vent.

--You can also mitigate using a tank plumbed for uniflow. In many (not all) applications this helps. And, you can combine muffler pressure with a uniflow setup. An awful lot of sport flyers consider this configuration first and never look back.

--You can fit a longer tank on the Twister--there's a lot of room up front unless the nose will be built non-standard. I would try for 4 or 4-1/2 oz capacity leaving you more options on tuning, fuel mixes, and engine changes. You don't have to fill the tank full but be sure it is somewhere over half full or you'll never get it started....

--I am currently using a Brodak "oval" tank with an OS .46LA on a Twister. I replumbed it for uniflow so that it is now very similar to their BH-594 5 oz tank. It works very well in this combination. That might not always be true for other combinations. The oval tanks have a larger height dimension, and this can make some engines run less steady.

--Different engines have different fuel draw capabilities. Some are known to be weaker. A larger venturi in a given engine will have less draw.

--The Fox .35 has pretty good draw, but you really help yourself out with the medium wedge geometry. The OS .40 should behave pretty much the same as the .46.

--With the Fox, I like to run a lot of castor lubricant. Real long tanks have long internal tubing that cause more resistance to flow. This only seems to be a problem when it gets real cold out. Keeping your fuel warm in the winter helps. Taking off the fuel filter between the tank and engine helps too. I haven't had any real issues at 50F using 29% castor with the Fox.

--As another reference, I have a profile plane with a McCoy .19 and a medium wedge standard vent tank. It has a very nice engine run. But the nose was too short (Jr. Flite Streak) to fit a long enough tank to make for satisfying flights. An oval tank would fit more fuel into the given length, but the engine did not like the deeper and wider tank. So I got a longer but annoying engine run....

There are a number of choices that are going to work. Good luck!

Dave


Offline Colin McRae

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Re: Tank for profile
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2023, 02:07:07 PM »
The tank in the thread pic has a forward-facing fuel pickup. On a profile model, this will require the tank to be mounted a little farther back from the engine. Not a problem, but not optimum. Always good to keep the fuel lines as short as possible.

One suggestion is to use a wide wedge uniflow, or oval profile uniflow w/ muffler pressure on the uniflow vent. Brodak sells both designs.

For the wide wedge uniflow design, the fuel pickup tube is on the bottom and will allow for the tank to be mounted closer to the engine. And the uniflow vent faces forward. All the tubing becomes more efficient.

On Brodak's oval profile uniflow, the fuel pickup is on the top which is not optimum. If you call Brodak, they will custom build the tank w/ the fuel pickup on the bottom. That is what I normally do on my profiles. The oval profile tank is also a bit shorter. The pic below is the oval profile tank that I had Brodak relocate the fuel pickup to the bottom.

 


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