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Building Tips and technical articles. => Building techniques => Topic started by: Chris Fretz on December 20, 2016, 05:43:44 PM
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Hi Fellas! So I finally got around to building a kit. Ive never built a Brodak kit. Ive built plenty of Sterling, Sig, Top Flite, Control Line Classics, Carl Goldberg and Dumas kits but never a Brodak kit.
Anyway Ive been pondering what kind of controls to put in. I like the ball link controls I put in the Nobler from Tom Morris (I hope he gets well soon). I was thinking of going that route. What benefits do you get from those kind of controls as opposed to just the music wire sloppy control?? I Suppose a 4in bellcrank, although I put a 4 in the Nobler an felt it took a lot of wrist movement doing the stunts. On the fence with that too.
What does Tom use for his controls, is that Carbon rod? What does he use to wrap the ends with that he epoxies?
I'm giving a pool table slate with a sheet of drywall on top a try.
Thanks for your thoughts guy!
Chris
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Tom Morris uses carbon tubes. He wraps the ends with Kevlar thread. When I don't have his handy, I make my own, but install short pieces of aluminum tubing over each end, each piece being about 1/4 inch long. H^^
Thanks for the reply! I had Tom make me a set of controls for a Score. After examining, it seems like he used 4-40 all thread from the bellcrank to flap horn. But the whole length of it feels like all threads inside the carbon tube. Does that sound about right? The flap horn to elevator feels hollow in the middle, how far inside the carbon tube would you epoxy the 4-40 ends?
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In the photos above, the top tube is mine. The lower tube is from Tom Morris. The three ends are Titanium, so I'm told. As you can see. one end has grooves for the epoxy. The bottom one is designed to go in the middle of a tube or tubes and can be turned either way for fine adjustment. Same for the middle one, except it fits in one end only. The top one is a typical end.
The short piece of aluminum tubing and the Kevlar thread serve to keep the tube from shredding. D>K
Very interesting! I was just going to epoxy a piece of all thread on the ends. Where do you get those ends at, specifically the top one??
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Hi Chris. I assume you are referring to the ball links? I get those from Tom Morris. If you are referring to the aluminum end caps, I make them with a #7 xacto blade from aluminum tubing, the K&S stuff. I take a section of the carbon tube with me to my local hobby shop and find a tube that just fits over the tube. D>K
Oh no I mean where can I get that titanium end 4-40 end with the epoxy groves? I got the ball links already from the hobby shop they are dubro an quite expensive for 12 they were $32
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I found some carbon tube at a hobby shop today, I wasn't sure what size to buy so I found one that 4-40 fits inside easily. But I also got one a little smaller that it didn't fit right in. Got them home an saw Tom uses the smaller one I got.
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Chris,
For push rod materials go to Central Hobbies.
https://www.centralhobbies.com/cat3.php?cat=27&subcat=124
Click on whichever button you're interested in; carbon fibre rods, carbon fibre pushrod sets or titanium ends. Tom Morris gets his threaded ends from Central Hobbies.
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Chris,
For push rod materials go to Central Hobbies.
https://www.centralhobbies.com/cat3.php?cat=27&subcat=124
Click on whichever button you're interested in; carbon fibre rods, carbon fibre pushrod sets or titanium ends. Tom Morris gets his threaded ends from Central Hobbies.
Thanks for the heads up on that!
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Looks like I can squeeze this extra bellcrank in that I got from Tom. I think I'll try another floating bellcrank again. Not sure just yet how to hid it on a profile though. Could you double the sides of the 1/4in spar with plywood an drill the 1/8 hole through it? Or does the 1/8 rod need a hardwood as opposed to balsa to go through?
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Post needs to go thru hardwood or ply plates.
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Hi Chris. It's really good to see you back at the building table.
Here's how I secured it on my Twister. I carved the end of a square poplar dowel to fit a brass tube that sleeves the top of the screw. The brace is epoxied to the top spar and rib. Also in the photo, is a balsa brace against the rib at the bottom plate, also epoxied to the bottom spar. So those spars take all the forces in that direction from the bellcrank. I think it's pretty tough. I would not bore a hole through a spar.
Arrows point to the two braces and the brass tube sleeving the pivot screw.
(https://i37.servimg.com/u/f37/16/76/00/59/bellcr11.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/16760059/1110)
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Post needs to go thru hardwood or ply plates.
Thanks, I figured it probably did. Hi Chris. It's really good to see you back at the building table.
Here's how I secured it on my Twister. I carved the end of a square poplar dowel to fit a brass tube that sleeves the top of the screw. The brace is epoxied to the top spar and rib. Also in the photo, is a balsa brace against the rib at the bottom plate, also epoxied to the bottom spar. So those spars take all the forces in that direction from the bellcrank. I think it's pretty tough. I would not bore a hole through a spar.
Arrows point to the two braces and the brass tube sleeving the pivot screw.
(https://i37.servimg.com/u/f37/16/76/00/59/bellcr11.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/16760059/1110)
Hi Rusty! I'm slow going but at least I started building something. Are you building anything right now?
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I'm building a new wing for my Twister. I busted it in late October. I have been a little down lately, so only a bit of light shop work every week. Winter is always tough on me. Even the South Carolina winter, which you Pennsylvanians might not even notice. But now that the Winter Solstice is behind us, I am counting the weeks till Spring.
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But now that the Winter Solstice is behind us, I am counting the weeks till Spring.
Boy when you put it that way I better get moving on this airplane. I don't even know what to cover it in. All I've ever used was monokote. I bought some covering from Tom Morris but I've never used that stuff.
Get moving on that wing Rusty!
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I bought two kits this past summer an both kits have something pretty warped. One has a warped fuselage the other has warped spars an leading edge. I've been cherry picking each kit. What do you guys do about warped items in kits?
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As far as warps I some times make the piece work depending on the use. The leading edge should be no problem. If you got the Poly-Span covering from Tom Morris, check out the finishing procedure by Larry Renger . I have just covered a wing using the procedure and it sure goes fast. Two days of piddling in the shop and I have a covered wing that has a shine like I could never get with clear dope. See the post My Secret Weapon. It's in the paint and finish section.
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As far as warps I some times make the piece work depending on the use. The leading edge should be no problem. If you got the Poly-Span covering from Tom Morris, check out the finishing procedure by Larry Renger . I have just covered a wing using the procedure and it sure goes fast. Two days of piddling in the shop and I have a covered wing that has a shine like I could never get with clear dope. See the post My Secret Weapon. It's in the paint and finish section.
Thanks Doc I'll check em out!
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Had a bit of a setback today. Some fur ball danced on the wing ''
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Hows that look fellas? I just plan to cut the 1/8in rod flush and put the sheeting over top it. How long do you think the rubber fuel line will last before deteriorating? Probably longer than the first crash I'll guess.
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Hope you cut a notch for that set screw. I lost my Sheeks Spitfire because the set screw came loose. I put a ply plate top and bottom over the rod so it can't move vertically now. I also don't like fuel tubing for spacers. I use flat washers or make play spacers.
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Hope you cut a notch for that set screw. I lost my Sheeks Spitfire because the set screw came loose. I put a ply plate top and bottom over the rod so it can't move vertically now. I also don't like fuel tubing for spacers. I use flat washers or make play spacers.
Ohhhh thanks for reminding me to notch it for the set screw, I almost forgot!
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Hope you cut a notch for that set screw. I lost my Sheeks Spitfire because the set screw came loose. I put a ply plate top and bottom over the rod so it can't move vertically now. I also don't like fuel tubing for spacers. I use flat washers or make play spacers.
Ok Doc I got the flats and used aluminum tubing instead of the fuel line.
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Chris
Or you could have used a couple wheel collars as well.
Carl
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Chris
Or you could have used a couple wheel collars as well.
Carl
Does anybody like the fuel tubing :P. What are you building this winter Carl?
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Can't really say yet, but the wing is built in 2 halves.
will be powered either by one of the following motors:
OS 60H gold head
OS LA65
K&B 61
ASP 61
haven't decided as yet.
still have to get the wood for the fuz and tail
Carl
had to go under the knife again last month. had a dang hernia I did not even know I had.
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Does anybody like the fuel tubing :P. What are you building this winter Carl?
No, not fuel line for that purpose. I think the aluminum will work fine. As I posted in the other thread, I used brass tube for a similar setup.
Rusty
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No, not fuel line for that purpose. I think the aluminum will work fine. As I posted in the other thread, I used brass tube for a similar setup.
Rusty
I guess only Tom Morris likes it. Rusty are you building your new wing from scratch?
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I didn't know Tom liked it, and I wouldn't dis anything he endorses.
I started to graft the two halves back together under the tutelage of Bob Zambelli, when a new box showed up at my front door with a Walter Umland label on it. It was a brand new laser cut wing kit! What a guy! Walter is alright. And that was only days after his return from the hospital.
So it's on the glass now. But I have developed such a fiery case of tendonitis in my left arm, it's only partially started while I drag around the house moaning. What a pathetic mess I am.
Merry Christmas, Buddy.
Rusty
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Can anyone recommend a fuel tank for this airplane with a LA 46?
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I didn't know Tom liked it, and I wouldn't dis anything he endorses.
I started to graft the two halves back together under the tutelage of Bob Zambelli, when a new box showed up at my front door with a Walter Umland label on it. It was a brand new laser cut wing kit! What a guy! Walter is alright. And that was only days after his return from the hospital.
So it's on the glass now. But I have developed such a fiery case of tendonitis in my left arm, it's only partially started while I drag around the house moaning. What a pathetic mess I am.
Merry Christmas, Buddy.
Rusty
That's pretty awesome Rusty! I hope you can get it together an your tendinitis calms down. Nothing worse than feeling to bad to do things.
Merry Christmas to you guys too!
Chris
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Thanks Chris. Tell B Merry Christmas and happy New Year too.
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I've never had a problem with the fuel tube, and it's been on planes of mine for almost 10 years. I would imagine a 5oz tank would work just fine, I like the ATF (All Tubes Forward) style of metal tank.
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I've never had a problem with the fuel tube, and it's been on planes of mine for almost 10 years. I would imagine a 5oz tank would work just fine, I like the ATF (All Tubes Forward) style of metal tank.
Do you use the wheel collars with the fuel line? What is a all tubes forward tank? I guess I should ask if I should go with a uniflow or not as well. Ha ha I should probably add that I have yet to be able to get a airplane to run the same right side up an upside down.
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I don't like the fuel tubing but I like it better than the aluminum tubing. Get some extra wheel collars and glue some flat washers to them if you have to and leave the set screws out except for the collars next to the bellcrank. I have a piece of 1/2" phenolic rod that I cut spacers out of. After the 1/8" music wire is in place hit the ends with a drop of CA glue.
That rib that's right there where the lead outs meet the bellcrank needs more clearance or you're brass tubing will catch.
I think you could do the pattern with a 4.5oz wide wedge uniflow tank.
http://brodak.com/wide-wedge-uniflow-fuel-tank-4.html
Check the length and see if you have room for mounting tabs back and front or if you have to go top and bottom. Set the tank 1/8" above the thrust line to start.
http://brodak.com/fuel/fuel-tank-brackets.html
MM
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Yes I use wheel collars, everyone has there preference but the fuel tube holds everything nice and tight.
Here's a link to the ATF Tanks http://brodak.com/a-t-f-medium-wedge-uniflow-fuel-tank-4.html I use tank mounts like RSM has for profile's.
I didn't see them on RSM's web site but here's a picture, you put in threaded inserts in the fuse were the cut outs are and bolt in 4-40 bolts, use silicone adhesive to attach the tank to the plywood mount and now you can adjust the entire mount. Might be more than you want to do but I like it.
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I don't like the fuel tubing but I like it better than the aluminum tubing. Get some extra wheel collars and glue some flat washers to them if you have to and leave the set screws out except for the collars next to the bellcrank. I have a piece of 1/2" phenolic rod that I cut spacers out of. After the 1/8" music wire is in place hit the ends with a drop of CA glue.
That rib that's right there where the lead outs meet the bellcrank needs more clearance or you're brass tubing will catch.
I think you could do the pattern with a 4.5oz wide wedge uniflow tank.
http://brodak.com/wide-wedge-uniflow-fuel-tank-4.html
Check the length and see if you have room for mounting tabs back and front or if you have to go top and bottom. Set the tank 1/8" above the thrust line to start.
http://brodak.com/fuel/fuel-tank-brackets.html
MM
Why don't you like the aluminum tubing idea? Why would you have move the adjustable leadouts further out than the last full wing rib?
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Yes I use wheel collars, everyone has there preference but the fuel tube holds everything nice and tight.
Here's a link to the ATF Tanks http://brodak.com/a-t-f-medium-wedge-uniflow-fuel-tank-4.html I use tank mounts like RSM has for profile's.
I didn't see them on RSM's web site but here's a picture, you put in threaded inserts in the fuse were the cut outs are and bolt in 4-40 bolts, use silicone adhesive to attach the tank to the plywood mount and now you can adjust the entire mount. Might be more than you want to do but I like it.
Thanks for sharing your way, the silicone will hold good enough on its own?
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Just make sure it's Silicone Adhesive !! I sand the back of the tank to give it some tooth to hold onto, also the plywood . Like I said it has worked for me, Your mileage may vary !!
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Would you install a dual line adjustable leadout or a independently adjustable leadout? Of the two kits I have one kit has dual an the other kit has independently.
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Chris
All my planes with adjustable lead outs use the dual line adjusters.
The new plane will have seperate line adjusters. (that is what I had in my parts box)
The tank mount that Leester had is a good one. (make sure to fuel proof the wood) Or you can solder the end ones on from Bordak. http://brodak.com/fuel/fuel-tank-brackets/adjustable-tank-brackets-end.html
A 4 1/2 oz tank will work fine. The choice is up to you as for the type of tubing location. I like these on profiles: http://brodak.com/fuel/fuel-tank-brackets/adjustable-tank-brackets-end.html
Make sure to lengthen the opening on the outer wing rib for the adjustable lead outs.
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Just make sure it's Silicone Adhesive !! I sand the back of the tank to give it some tooth to hold onto, also the plywood . Like I said it has worked for me, Your mileage may vary !!
Do you have a picture of how you plum your tank?
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Chris
All my planes with adjustable lead outs use the dual line adjusters.
The new plane will have seperate line adjusters. (that is what I had in my parts box)
The tank mount that Leester had is a good one. (make sure to fuel proof the wood) Or you can solder the end ones on from Bordak. http://brodak.com/fuel/fuel-tank-brackets/adjustable-tank-brackets-end.html
A 4 1/2 oz tank will work fine. The choice is up to you as for the type of tubing location. I like these on profiles: http://brodak.com/fuel/fuel-tank-brackets/adjustable-tank-brackets-end.html
Make sure to lengthen the opening on the outer wing rib for the adjustable lead outs.
The dual line looks easier to screw with so I'll try that one.
Do you guys solidly mount the tank once you solder the ends on? Or do you put something to cut down the vibration?
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Chris let's do a search on "cloning hawker typhoon" and scroll down and you will see pictures of the mounted tank mount.
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I think the aluminum tubing is thin and could cut into the plywood.
Bolt your tank hard to the plane just make sure you're not stressing the solder joints of the brass brackets. If you want to glue your tank with caulk to plywood with thin wood around the slots good luck with that, not on my plane.
You want the lead out guide to be as close to the tip as possible so the cables don't work the slot.
MM
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Chris let's do a search on "cloning hawker typhoon" and scroll down and you will see pictures of the mounted tank mount.
That's a cool looking airplane, do you still have it? I didn't see any pictures on how you ran the vent line though.
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I think the aluminum tubing is thin and could cut into the plywood. I mean the center section, rib #2 next to the bellcrank needs more clearance on the brass loops. Bolt your tank hard to the plane just make sure you're not stressing the solder joints of the brass brackets. If you want to glue your tank with caulk to plywood with thin wood around the slots good luck with that, not on my plane.
MM
I'm my Thoughts on a Tanager thread you had mentioned moving the adjustable leadouts out further than the plans mentioned, I was just wondering why.
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You want the lead out guide to be as close to the tip as possible so the cables don't work the slot.
MM
Oh I didn't see this the first time I read the reply.
The wing tip is pretty long an I was thinking it could jam up in the small long slot it says to make.
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For the landing gear is a two pice that comes in the kit ok or would I be better off bending a one piece landing gear?
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Adhesive Silicone is NOT caulk, do a search and you'll find lots of people use it and the biggest problem is trying to get it apart !! The tank mount is 1/8" ply which I trust more than a solder joint. You don't do anything with the vent after you fill your tank , that tank is an RSM Profile uniflow tank www.rsmdistribution.com
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The two piece landing gear is fine.
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Where do you guys get spinners that aren't too crazy in price? I don't have any luck with pro spin spinners they vibrate too bad for me.
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I tend to follow and read all posts by others who are neophytes like me
In this case #Liner has asked a bunch of questions, and I LEARNED a lot from without having to ask myself
That all said...
I still do not understand the Title of this thread...
jest curious
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Tanager is a bird.
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I tend to follow and read all posts by others who are neophytes like me
In this case #Liner has asked a bunch of questions, and I LEARNED a lot from without having to ask myself
That all said...
I still do not understand the Title of this thread...
jest curious
Tanager being a bird and looking for bird seed to grow or in my case build this airplane.
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Where do you guys get spinners that aren't too crazy in price? I don't have any luck with pro spin spinners they vibrate too bad for me.
I get them from the Omnimodels eBay store.
http://stores.ebay.com/OmniModels/_i.html?_nkw=great+Planes+spinners&submit=Search&_sid=139091328
Use Omni's eBay store because their shipping is $1.99 on all small stuff. Their main store is sometimes more expensive.
Great Planes plastic are my favorite spinners with the aluminum backplate and rich colors. The Dubro spinners are cheaper too but don't look as cool as the GP spinners.
And they have low priced aluminum spinners too, but you have to buy a screw-on mounting adapter. Usually, I get the 2" size. I think they are made by Dave Brown for G'Planes. They can usually be straightened after a "bend."
This is my favorite aluminum spinner that I used on the Twister. Fits APC with a light touch from a file.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Great-Planes-Spinner-2-Aluminum-GPMQ4552-/291190643494?hash=item43cc509b26
and the adapter is this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290702161646
It's listed at the bottom of the same page
Rusty
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Rusty is right, the G.P. spinners with metal or plastic back plate are good. When you want to paint your spinner to match I get the white and sand with 600-800 paper and paint with whatever you prefer and then clear coat with your favorite.
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I get them from the Omnimodels eBay store.
http://stores.ebay.com/OmniModels/_i.html?_nkw=great+Planes+spinners&submit=Search&_sid=139091328
Use Omni's eBay store because their shipping is $1.99 on all small stuff. Their main store is sometimes more expensive.
Great Planes plastic are my favorite spinners with the aluminum backplate and rich colors. The Dubro spinners are cheaper too but don't look as cool as the GP spinners.
And they have low priced aluminum spinners too, but you have to buy a screw-on mounting adapter. Usually, I get the 2" size. I think they are made by Dave Brown for G'Planes. They can usually be straightened after a "bend."
This is my favorite aluminum spinner that I used on the Twister. Fits APC with a light touch from a file.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Great-Planes-Spinner-2-Aluminum-GPMQ4552-/291190643494?hash=item43cc509b26
and the adapter is this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290702161646
It's listed at the bottom of the same page
Rusty
Sweeeeeet now that's what I'm talking about! I like the aluminum one on your Twister! You don't have any balance problems with it?
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No, it's not too heavy. In fact, on the Twister I use a heavier Dave Brown acorn nut(same page as spinners) most of the time because my C/G was always aft of the plan's spec. It's still tail heavy according to the plans, but I like it that way. I'm still experimenting with that. It's surprising considering the wide nose on that bird, almost 1-1/2" with the recessed engine and tank. Stiff as hell. It didn't phase the fuselage when I dove into the ground. I need some stickier tape for my handle. It hung on the lanyard and turned about 10 loops the size of a beachball and they didn't grow. But when I reached out and put the handle back in my hand, I put it in backwards. I still can't believe I couldn't adapt fast enough, I just went brain dead and pulled it the wrong way... about 5 times. And I had no idea that plane would turn that damned tight Lol. Guess I never pulled full control on either line before.
Whenever I get a little less achy I'll finish the new wing. I'm slowly piddling with it. But after watching Sparky make a whole wing panel in two hours last night, including making the ribs, I'm gonna get'r done. I love that plane and fly it better than any ship I've ever had. It was great of Walter and my forum buddy Fred, to send me a whole new wing kit for it.
Rusty
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Whenever I get a little less achy I'll finish the new wing. I'm slowly piddling with it. But after watching Sparky make a whole wing panel in two hours last night, including making the ribs, I'm gonna get'r done. I love that plane and fly it better than any ship I've ever had. It was great of Walter and my forum buddy Fred, to send me a whole new wing kit for it.
Rusty
I have been watching Sparky lately, he makes it look so easy. Ill have to watch the latest video on making that panel. When I watch his videos an he says something I find myself wanting to ask questions. Id be happy with the laser cut ribs from Brodaks, they would be far better than I could cut out lol. n~
I did order a scalpel with 100 blades for $9, Iam still testing it out though.
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...Id be happy with the laser cut ribs from Brodaks, they would be far better than I could cut out lol. n~...
You'll be pleasantly surprised if not amazed with yourself the day you do bite the bullet and cut your own ribs. The first set I ever cut were the balsa ribs to replace the light ply set in my Skyray kit(my Osprey), and I did it so fast and perfect you'd have thought I'd done it a hundred times. I even made them with the perforated jig tabs on them. It's amazing how easy it is. I used ply templates, hardened around the edge with CA, and a stack of five balsa blanks at a time.
Rusty
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Cruising along here. All of this fancy crap on the front of this airplane sure is making the nose feel pretty heavy. I am starting to think its going to take a lot of tail weight when its done. I bet its pretty strong though.
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Brodaks has taken all that famncy stuff into consideration, it'll be just fine !!!
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Chris;
That plane is really looking nice buddy.
What you going to do for covering?
Carl
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Chris;
That plane is really looking nice buddy.
What you going to do for covering?
Carl
Thanks Carl. Going to give polyspan a try on the wings an silkspan a try on the solid wood surfaces.
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Excellent cheek cowl. Makes me want to break open my Tanager kit.
MM
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Excellent cheek cowl. Makes me want to break open my Tanager kit.
MM
Thanks Motorman! I screwed around with that for about a day. It makes a cool 3D look on a profile, I like it.
Get that kit out.
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Trying out some silkspan, so far so good. I hope the flaps dont warp!
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Trying out some silkspan, so far so good. I hope the flaps dont warp!
They might. That's what heat and steam are for.
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They might. That's what heat and steam are for.
Hey Rusty! Did the top side of one of the flaps an it looked like a C! Then I did the bottom side and it straightened out. Got both sides done, it's dry and straight...Woohoo!
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Did you allow for a little positive incidence in your stab?
MM
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Did you allow for a little positive incidence in your stab?
MM
Say what?
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It will fly much smoother if you jack up the LE of the stab 1/64" or 1 degree. When you bench trim you want the elevator flat with the stab and the flaps slightly down. It's been talked about on here, do a search.
Also, don't know why everyone leaves the tips off the elevator, I think it makes it turn better.
MM
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It will fly much smoother if you jack up the LE of the stab 1/64" or 1 degree. When you bench trim you want the elevator flat with the stab and the flaps slightly down. It's been talked about on here, do a search.
Also, don't know why everyone leaves the tips off the elevator, I think it makes it turn better.
MM
Ha ha I forgot about the tips when I sanded the elevators so I just glued the tips on the stab. I always get ahead of myself and screw something up. I'll build the second Tanager correctly, or at least make it resemble the picture.
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It will fly much smoother if you jack up the LE of the stab 1/64" or 1 degree. When you bench trim you want the elevator flat with the stab and the flaps slightly down. It's been talked about on here, do search.
MM
Honestly I'll be lucky to get the incidence of the motor, wing an stab at zero let alone make the stab off by a degree. I don't fully understand how you can get a robart incidence meter to sit on a stab without warping it due to the weight of the meter itself. Or keep it pined in place to set one of those on an keep it from moving with the weight and awkwardness of it.
Just looking at a plastic molded Robart Incidence Meter I bet they have a +or- 5 degree inaccuracy. LL~
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I my self have not bought into the theory that the stab should have incidence of any kind. I tried my best to get every thing lined up on the same line as the thrust line. Also when viewed from front or back the wing and stab should line up as close as possible. Guess that is why I don't post 500+ scores when I fly. LL~ LL~ H^^
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Got the Polyspan on the wing! First time with this stuff and it went pretty good so far.
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Very nice, Chris. Looks like a pro did it. I'll be calling you when I decide to try it the first time.
Rusty
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Very nice, Chris. Looks like a pro did it. I'll be calling you when I decide to try it the first time.
Rusty
Thanks Rusty! It's not as easy as Sparky makes it look. My biggest problem were the wing tips of course. For me pulling on the polyspan I found it eventually starting pulling apart the material. Luckily where it was pulling apart was the extra being cut off. Not perfect but not bad looking, better than my first try at monokote.
Chris
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Looks good in the pics. See what time and patience will do. I too have the problem of tearing the excess when doing wing tips. Also learned hard way not to use hot air gun on the open bays. But I defy anyone to see where I had to add a patch under the paint. If you do have to do a patch remember to kind of tear the piece for the patch in a circler shape. Also don't get too heavy handed with the sand paper.
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Looks good in the pics. See what time and patience will do. I too have the problem of tearing the excess when doing wing tips. Also learned hard way not to use hot air gun on the open bays. But I defy anyone to see where I had to add a patch under the paint. If you do have to do a patch remember to kind of tear the piece for the patch in a circler shape. Also don't get too heavy handed with the sand paper.
Will do thanks!
I used heat like in Sparkys video an to my surprise I didn't burn through, at least I don't think I did!
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You would know immediately if it did.
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Well so far I've found that it is very easy to sand through polyspan. Open bays are my problems, I think I sanded trough about 4 or 5 spots. Thankfully on the bottom only. Sure is a fine line in sanding that stuff, silkspan too.
Got the wing epoxied in and drying. I sure made some goofy jig but seems to be working. Better than just pinning it and hoping for the best I suppose.
Think my arms going to fall off from all the sanding!
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What grit paper are you using? Also I don't really sand all the area of the poly-span. I sand only the area of over lap that is usually rough to the feel. Also I may have as much as 8 coats of dope thinned to water consistency before I apply primer/filler coats. When doing the primer coats you don't want to sand down to the poly. On open bays I have very little primer/blocking coat and use the finest grit paper I can like 400. A someone said, sanding is an art unto it self. As I stated earlier lightly sand the rough areas.
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What grit paper are you using? Also I don't really sand all the area of the poly-span. I sand only the area of over lap that is usually rough to the feel. Also I may have as much as 8 coats of dope thinned to water consistency before I apply primer/filler coats. When doing the primer coats you don't want to sand down to the poly. On open bays I have very little primer/blocking coat and use the finest grit paper I can like 400. A someone said, sanding is an art unto it self. As I stated earlier lightly sand the rough areas.
320 grit with plenty of inexperience on polyspan or silkspan. I do remember you saying don't sand the open bays much. I asked Sparky if he sands after the first coat and he said after all coats. I found that kind of surprising considering one coat wouldn't be much. But anyway all was going good till the 3rd coat and sanding after that. I guess it will take some practice to it like anything.
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If it feels like some fuzzies on the polyspan of the wing and I do a white sprayed dope base coat will it fill the fuzzies? Or should I go over it again with another coat of thinned dope?
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Actually it is when I have all the rough stuff sanded to my satisfaction do I then spray a good coat of primer/filler on the dope or what ever clear I use on the Poly-Span. Then I sand until it looks like you can see a little of the covering. Even with silkspan, silk, nylon or any type of material you don't want to sand into the material. The clear dope I use is enough coats so that it starts to get a little sheen to it. Then I hit it with the filler/primer coats. Some times it may take several coats to get the grain filled and the last coat is sanded to give the color coats some thing to bind to.
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I've been following this build and admire your skills. Up to then, starting in 1972, I was strictly into free flight and HO model trains.
Thanks! I've stalled a bit on this airplane due to birthdays and such. And I've been messing around with a HO layout that is making me go nuts! Stupid Atlas turnouts (well all my turnouts) are derailing half my engines and cars! HB~> HB~> '' R%%%%. I must have rocks in my head for running 3 ovals all hooked together. Eveytime I mess with turnouts I wonder why I mess with trains. Older than dirt turnouts and even the 2 new Atlas turnouts are giving me problems, the new turnouts have a fancy recess in the rail that seems to be causing some cars to lift up and derail.
I should just go back to making this airplane heavier by the coat.
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Thanks! I've stalled a bit on this airplane due to birthdays and such. And I've been messing around with a HO layout that is making me go nuts! Stupid Atlas turnouts (well all my turnouts) are derailing half my engines and cars! HB~> HB~> '' R%%%%. I must have rocks in my head for running 3 ovals all hooked together. Eveytime I mess with turnouts I wonder why I mess with trains. Older than dirt turnouts and even the 2 new Atlas turnouts are giving me problems, the new turnouts have a fancy recess in the rail that seems to be causing some cars to lift up and derail.
I should just go back to making this airplane heavier by the coat.
Liner,
It's been a very long time since I put rolling stock to rail but... NMRA standard at one point was the RP-25 wheel flange. If your running older rolling stock and engines it is possible that the wheel flanges are not NMRA RP-25 standard. If not, it is possible that the flange on the wheels actually bottoms in the switch frog causing the wheels to lift off the rails and thus a derail occurs. This becomes more important as you change the track code (height) from Code-100 to smaller track code like Code-83 rail and smaller. Track Code= The height of the rail from the top of the railroad tie/sleeper to the top of the rail head. The smaller code rail looks better in a "scale sense" but can be more finicky in a operational sense if wheel flanges and track work (rail joints etc) are not perfect. Rivarossi was one of the major offenders of the wheel flange issue. Their engines and cars were "mostly" fine on Code-100 rail, but not so much on finer scale rail code tracks. I'm going back to the 1980's here with my thinking mind you.
Also, unless you have extremely flexible turnout control linkages to turnout motor and relay switch gear it is not uncommon for derails to happen when you run a train backward through "points" that are not aligned to the actual track in use. If there is enough flex in the switch actuation linkage the "points" of the switch will in some cases, simply be deflected over to allow the wheels to track through the switch. When a stiff linkage is used, the "points" do not deflect and a derail takes place.
Most likely you know about the above but just thought I mention it.
FWIW
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Liner,
It's been a very long time since I put rolling stock to rail but... NMRA standard at one point was the RP-25 wheel flange. If your running older rolling stock and engines it is possible that the wheel flanges are not NMRA RP-25 standard. If not, it is possible that the flange on the wheels actually bottoms in the switch frog causing the wheels to lift off the rails and thus a derail occurs. This becomes more important as you change the track code (height) from Code-100 to smaller track code like Code-83 rail and smaller. Track Code= The height of the rail from the top of the railroad tie/sleeper to the top of the rail head. The smaller code rail looks better in a "scale sense" but can be more finicky in a operational sense if wheel flanges and track work (rail joints etc) are not perfect. Rivarossi was one of the major offenders of the wheel flange issue. Their engines and cars were "mostly" fine on Code-100 rail, but not so much on finer scale rail code tracks. I'm going back to the 1980's here with my thinking mind you.
Also, unless you have extremely flexible turnout control linkages to turnout motor and relay switch gear it is not uncommon for derails to happen when you run a train backward through "points" that are not aligned to the actual track in use. If there is enough flex in the switch actuation linkage the "points" of the switch will in some cases, simply be deflected over to allow the wheels to track through the switch. When a stiff linkage is used, the "points" do not deflect and a derail takes place.
Most likely you know about the above but just thought I mention it.
FWIW
I did learn not to long ago what code-83 and code-100 ment lol. I have code-100. I sat there for hours trying to figure out the problems. Most of my stuff trains and cars are from the 80's or older. I heard there were different wheels. Looks to me like the cars that have no problem have a bevel on the vertical part of the wheel and the problem cars have a a very thin vertical part of the wheel causing it to slip in between the "point rails". If any of that makes sense.
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Yeah makes sense to me. One other thing to check: Ensure the wheel sets are actually "in gauge" ie: spaced correctly on the axles so they fit between/on the rails. If to wide or to narrow problems can present. Good luck.
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Do I get extra credit for playing with my original 1963 Lionel O gage train set recently
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170301/66d1aa4bbb07b784ac53cd9cc81da7a8.jpg)
Do you ever just get sick of sanding and say screw it, just paint it and it is what it is?
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170301/66d1aa4bbb07b784ac53cd9cc81da7a8.jpg)
Do you ever just get sick of sanding and say screw it, just paint it and it is what it is?
You bet!
Looking good though.
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You're asking us or me. If you could see my planes in person you would know the answer. In fact one of the guys I fly with once in a while said he wished I could put a decent finish on a plane. D>K
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looking really nice Chris.
One question tho, is it the camera shot or is your landing gear angled towards the rear of the plane?
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You're asking us or me. If you could see my planes in person you would know the answer. In fact one of the guys I fly with once in a while said he wished I could put a decent finish on a plane. D>K
I was just throwing that out there for anyone. Ha ha but good to know Doc!looking really nice Chris.
One question tho, is it the camera shot or is your landing gear angled towards the rear of the plane?
You are correct the landing gear is angled to the rear. That's what the plans called for, I thought it was strange myself!
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looking really nice Chris.
One question tho, is it the camera shot or is your landing gear angled towards the rear of the plane?
Although I do remember watching a "hangout" once and Sparky said the wheels should be right below the leading edge. So maybe that's the reason they did this.
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#2 is cruising along! (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170319/3c9f19f0594de580d4614463e0df9c41.jpg)
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Almost done with the twins.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/3d47844f05747fa7954aa45616b92435.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/3703106f83340405dbc2efb303c56751.jpg)
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Chris
those are great looking planes buddy!!!! H^^ H^^
You going to fly one of those at Brodaks?
Carl
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Chris
those are great looking planes buddy!!!! H^^ H^^
You going to fly one of those at Brodaks?
Carl
If one of them will do a couple successful stunts I will. If they don't I'll hang them on a wall in the garage.
Boy that 2k spray urathane has taken 2 days to dry. I wouldn't of thought it would take that long. They felt pretty good and dry this morning. Maybe I can mount some of the heavy stuff on them today and see my disappointed final weights. Although I'm not sure what a good weight for a Tanager is. I saw some people say on here theirs were in the 32oz range. I have no idea how you can get them that light with a engine strapped on. Right now one is 29oz and the other is 31oz. I I'll be in the mid to high 40's ''
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Chris;
My Excalibur109 weighs in at 43oz. with battery installed.
But flying it, it seems lighter to me.
The 2k does take time to set up properly, especially in COOLER weather.
But once it cures, you can pour 60% nitro fuel on it and it laughs at it.
Carl
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Well the Roadrunner/Tanager seems to have finished at 47oz. Good bad? Any thoughts? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/45e3861ae72b67d48ff07fc6ad412597.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/8ce8f6be4a2b8684fa497630c2c18ab8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/9f760e5840edaf4da55ab77d390e1050.jpg)
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That looks really good. I guess you'll reach around with your left hand to adjust the needle. My Shoestring was set up like that. It protects the needle if you can get to it easily enough.
Get a camera on it at the field so we can see your first flights.
What prop are you starting with? My old blue(and black) LA 46 likes an APC 12x4. I think my Cardinal was in the same weight range, that should be fine.
Rusty
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That looks really good. I guess you'll reach around with your left hand to adjust the needle. My Shoestring was set up like that. It protects the needle if you can get to it easily enough.
Get a camera on it at the field so we can see your first flights.
What prop are you starting with? My old blue(and black) LA 46 likes an APC 12x4. I think my Cardinal was in the same weight range, that should be fine.
Rusty
Thanks Rusty! The needle sucks but the fuel line is a straight shot. I'll get the mobius on it, I need to get out and shake the dust off. I am giving the Zoar 12x4 a shot.
Chris
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Chris
I like the Xoar props. I use the 12-4 on my LA. If I use a different brand I use the APC 12-4
Question,,,,,,,,,,,, Is the landing gear set right. Looks like a bit back set is all. maybe the pictures tho.
Carl
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Chris
...Question,,,,,,,,,,,, Is the landing gear set right. Looks like a bit back set is all. maybe the pictures tho.
Carl
Good catch. My Twister built like that and I worried about nosing over in the grass, so I bent it forward. I like to be able to stand behind the wing where I can look straight over the LE and see at least most of the wheels. I was doing my best landings ever with them set rearward, but moving them forward didn't affect it badly.
Rusty
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Second one ready to go. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/1a8b47710029bbaa22105d07e092a9c6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/b6cb6cf4a144f969a35c972dd4f73c00.jpg)
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Chris
I like the Xoar props. I use the 12-4 on my LA. If I use a different brand I use the APC 12-4
Question,,,,,,,,,,,, Is the landing gear set right. Looks like a bit back set is all. maybe the pictures tho.
Carl
They both are set back. The plans called for them to angle back like that so I just built it how the plans were. Don't know what it will be like. I've never had a airplane with the gear set back like that.
Chris
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I hate to pick on little stuff, and I can't see from the pics, but make sure none of the spinner cutouts are touching the prop anywhere.
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I hate to pick on little stuff, and I can't see from the pics, but make sure none of the spinner cutouts are touching the prop anywhere.
What does it do if it does touch?
Chris
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Your plane will spontaneously explode into a fireball.
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Your plane will spontaneously explode into a fireball.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! f~ j1 SH^
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;D
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;D
Ha ha I'm not sure if you are poking fun or what. (Meanwhile cussing out the spinner R%%%% cause it keeps touching when I tighten it. **))
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Who, me, poke fun? Of course I am.
Looks like you have plenty of clearance on one side. Turn it so it touches that side so it'll move when you tighten it and clear both sides.
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http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/finally-tanagers/ (http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/finally-tanagers/)