Author Topic: Tanager looking for bird seed (Read 21832 times)

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #50 on:** December 27, 2016, 10:45:39 AM »

I tend to follow and read all posts by others who are neophytes like me

In this case #Liner has asked a bunch of questions, and I LEARNED a lot from without having to ask myself

That all said...
I still do not understand the Title of this thread...

jest curious

Leester · « **Reply #51 on:** December 27, 2016, 11:09:51 AM »

Tanager is a bird.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #52 on:** December 27, 2016, 11:33:54 AM »

Quote from: Fredvon4 on December 27, 2016, 10:45:39 AM

I tend to follow and read all posts by others who are neophytes like me

In this case #Liner has asked a bunch of questions, and I LEARNED a lot from without having to ask myself

That all said...
I still do not understand the Title of this thread...

jest curious

Tanager being a bird and looking for bird seed to grow or in my case build this airplane.

RknRusty · « **Reply #53 on:** December 27, 2016, 01:53:15 PM »

Quote from: #Liner on December 27, 2016, 09:56:58 AM

Where do you guys get spinners that aren't too crazy in price? I don't have any luck with pro spin spinners they vibrate too bad for me.

I get them from the Omnimodels eBay store.
http://stores.ebay.com/OmniModels/_i.html?_nkw=great+Planes+spinners&submit=Search&_sid=139091328
Use Omni's eBay store because their shipping is $1.99 on all small stuff. Their main store is sometimes more expensive.

Great Planes plastic are my favorite spinners with the aluminum backplate and rich colors. The Dubro spinners are cheaper too but don't look as cool as the GP spinners.

And they have low priced aluminum spinners too, but you have to buy a screw-on mounting adapter. Usually, I get the 2" size. I think they are made by Dave Brown for G'Planes. They can usually be straightened after a "bend."

This is my favorite aluminum spinner that I used on the Twister. Fits APC with a light touch from a file.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Great-Planes-Spinner-2-Aluminum-GPMQ4552-/291190643494?hash=item43cc509b26
and the adapter is this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290702161646
It's listed at the bottom of the same page

Rusty

Leester · « **Reply #54 on:** December 27, 2016, 02:35:20 PM »

Rusty is right, the G.P. spinners with metal or plastic back plate are good. When you want to paint your spinner to match I get the white and sand with 600-800 paper and paint with whatever you prefer and then clear coat with your favorite.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #55 on:** December 27, 2016, 02:49:09 PM »

Quote from: RknRusty on December 27, 2016, 01:53:15 PM

I get them from the Omnimodels eBay store.
http://stores.ebay.com/OmniModels/_i.html?_nkw=great+Planes+spinners&submit=Search&_sid=139091328
Use Omni's eBay store because their shipping is $1.99 on all small stuff. Their main store is sometimes more expensive.

Great Planes plastic are my favorite spinners with the aluminum backplate and rich colors. The Dubro spinners are cheaper too but don't look as cool as the GP spinners.

And they have low priced aluminum spinners too, but you have to buy a screw-on mounting adapter. Usually, I get the 2" size. I think they are made by Dave Brown for G'Planes. They can usually be straightened after a "bend."

This is my favorite aluminum spinner that I used on the Twister. Fits APC with a light touch from a file.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Great-Planes-Spinner-2-Aluminum-GPMQ4552-/291190643494?hash=item43cc509b26
and the adapter is this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290702161646
It's listed at the bottom of the same page

Rusty

Sweeeeeet now that's what I'm talking about! I like the aluminum one on your Twister! You don't have any balance problems with it?

RknRusty · « **Reply #56 on:** December 27, 2016, 08:01:21 PM »

No, it's not too heavy. In fact, on the Twister I use a heavier Dave Brown acorn nut(same page as spinners) most of the time because my C/G was always aft of the plan's spec. It's still tail heavy according to the plans, but I like it that way. I'm still experimenting with that. It's surprising considering the wide nose on that bird, almost 1-1/2" with the recessed engine and tank. Stiff as hell. It didn't phase the fuselage when I dove into the ground. I need some stickier tape for my handle. It hung on the lanyard and turned about 10 loops the size of a beachball and they didn't grow. But when I reached out and put the handle back in my hand, I put it in backwards. I still can't believe I couldn't adapt fast enough, I just went brain dead and pulled it the wrong way... about 5 times. And I had no idea that plane would turn that damned tight Lol. Guess I never pulled full control on either line before.

Whenever I get a little less achy I'll finish the new wing. I'm slowly piddling with it. But after watching Sparky make a whole wing panel in two hours last night, including making the ribs, I'm gonna get'r done. I love that plane and fly it better than any ship I've ever had. It was great of Walter and my forum buddy Fred, to send me a whole new wing kit for it.
Rusty

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #57 on:** December 28, 2016, 05:09:09 PM »

Quote from: RknRusty on December 27, 2016, 08:01:21 PM

Whenever I get a little less achy I'll finish the new wing. I'm slowly piddling with it. But after watching Sparky make a whole wing panel in two hours last night, including making the ribs, I'm gonna get'r done. I love that plane and fly it better than any ship I've ever had. It was great of Walter and my forum buddy Fred, to send me a whole new wing kit for it.
Rusty

I have been watching Sparky lately, he makes it look so easy. Ill have to watch the latest video on making that panel. When I watch his videos an he says something I find myself wanting to ask questions. Id be happy with the laser cut ribs from Brodaks, they would be far better than I could cut out lol.

I did order a scalpel with 100 blades for $9, Iam still testing it out though.

RknRusty · « **Reply #58 on:** December 28, 2016, 06:59:22 PM »

Quote from: #Liner on December 28, 2016, 05:09:09 PM

...Id be happy with the laser cut ribs from Brodaks, they would be far better than I could cut out lol. ...

You'll be pleasantly surprised if not amazed with yourself the day you do bite the bullet and cut your own ribs. The first set I ever cut were the balsa ribs to replace the light ply set in my Skyray kit(my Osprey), and I did it so fast and perfect you'd have thought I'd done it a hundred times. I even made them with the perforated jig tabs on them. It's amazing how easy it is. I used ply templates, hardened around the edge with CA, and a stack of five balsa blanks at a time.
Rusty

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #59 on:** January 01, 2017, 11:42:21 AM »

Cruising along here. All of this fancy crap on the front of this airplane sure is making the nose feel pretty heavy. I am starting to think its going to take a lot of tail weight when its done. I bet its pretty strong though.

Leester · « **Reply #60 on:** January 01, 2017, 05:07:25 PM »

Brodaks has taken all that famncy stuff into consideration, it'll be just fine !!!

Carl Cisneros · « **Reply #61 on:** January 01, 2017, 08:29:29 PM »

Chris;
That plane is really looking nice buddy.

What you going to do for covering?

Carl

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #62 on:** January 01, 2017, 08:58:09 PM »

Quote from: Carl Cisneros on January 01, 2017, 08:29:29 PM

Chris;
That plane is really looking nice buddy.

What you going to do for covering?

Carl

Thanks Carl. Going to give polyspan a try on the wings an silkspan a try on the solid wood surfaces.

Motorman · « **Reply #63 on:** January 01, 2017, 09:13:58 PM »

Excellent cheek cowl. Makes me want to break open my Tanager kit.

MM

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #64 on:** January 01, 2017, 10:42:28 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on January 01, 2017, 09:13:58 PM

Excellent cheek cowl. Makes me want to break open my Tanager kit.

MM

Thanks Motorman! I screwed around with that for about a day. It makes a cool 3D look on a profile, I like it.

Get that kit out.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #65 on:** January 02, 2017, 04:26:11 PM »

Trying out some silkspan, so far so good. I hope the flaps dont warp!

RknRusty · « **Reply #66 on:** January 02, 2017, 04:30:11 PM »

Quote from: #Liner on January 02, 2017, 04:26:11 PM

Trying out some silkspan, so far so good. I hope the flaps dont warp!

They might. That's what heat and steam are for.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #67 on:** January 02, 2017, 05:52:01 PM »

Quote from: RknRusty on January 02, 2017, 04:30:11 PM

They might. That's what heat and steam are for.

Hey Rusty! Did the top side of one of the flaps an it looked like a C! Then I did the bottom side and it straightened out. Got both sides done, it's dry and straight...Woohoo!

Motorman · « **Reply #68 on:** January 03, 2017, 08:53:04 AM »

Did you allow for a little positive incidence in your stab?

MM

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #69 on:** January 03, 2017, 10:03:50 AM »

Quote from: Motorman on January 03, 2017, 08:53:04 AM

Did you allow for a little positive incidence in your stab?

MM

Say what?

Motorman · « **Reply #70 on:** January 03, 2017, 12:22:07 PM »

It will fly much smoother if you jack up the LE of the stab 1/64" or 1 degree. When you bench trim you want the elevator flat with the stab and the flaps slightly down. It's been talked about on here, do a search.

Also, don't know why everyone leaves the tips off the elevator, I think it makes it turn better.

MM

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #71 on:** January 03, 2017, 01:03:48 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on January 03, 2017, 12:22:07 PM

It will fly much smoother if you jack up the LE of the stab 1/64" or 1 degree. When you bench trim you want the elevator flat with the stab and the flaps slightly down. It's been talked about on here, do a search.

Also, don't know why everyone leaves the tips off the elevator, I think it makes it turn better.

MM

Ha ha I forgot about the tips when I sanded the elevators so I just glued the tips on the stab. I always get ahead of myself and screw something up. I'll build the second Tanager correctly, or at least make it resemble the picture.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #72 on:** January 03, 2017, 01:24:49 PM »

Quote from: Motorman on January 03, 2017, 12:22:07 PM

It will fly much smoother if you jack up the LE of the stab 1/64" or 1 degree. When you bench trim you want the elevator flat with the stab and the flaps slightly down. It's been talked about on here, do search.

MM

Honestly I'll be lucky to get the incidence of the motor, wing an stab at zero let alone make the stab off by a degree. I don't fully understand how you can get a robart incidence meter to sit on a stab without warping it due to the weight of the meter itself. Or keep it pined in place to set one of those on an keep it from moving with the weight and awkwardness of it.

Just looking at a plastic molded Robart Incidence Meter I bet they have a +or- 5 degree inaccuracy.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #73 on:** January 04, 2017, 12:24:08 PM »

I my self have not bought into the theory that the stab should have incidence of any kind. I tried my best to get every thing lined up on the same line as the thrust line. Also when viewed from front or back the wing and stab should line up as close as possible. Guess that is why I don't post 500+ scores when I fly.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #74 on:** January 08, 2017, 05:51:32 PM »

Got the Polyspan on the wing! First time with this stuff and it went pretty good so far.

RknRusty · « **Reply #75 on:** January 08, 2017, 10:04:48 PM »

Very nice, Chris. Looks like a pro did it. I'll be calling you when I decide to try it the first time.
Rusty

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #76 on:** January 09, 2017, 04:48:07 AM »

Quote from: RknRusty on January 08, 2017, 10:04:48 PM

Very nice, Chris. Looks like a pro did it. I'll be calling you when I decide to try it the first time.
Rusty

Thanks Rusty! It's not as easy as Sparky makes it look. My biggest problem were the wing tips of course. For me pulling on the polyspan I found it eventually starting pulling apart the material. Luckily where it was pulling apart was the extra being cut off. Not perfect but not bad looking, better than my first try at monokote.
Chris

john e. holliday · « **Reply #77 on:** January 09, 2017, 11:12:49 AM »

Looks good in the pics. See what time and patience will do. I too have the problem of tearing the excess when doing wing tips. Also learned hard way not to use hot air gun on the open bays. But I defy anyone to see where I had to add a patch under the paint. If you do have to do a patch remember to kind of tear the piece for the patch in a circler shape. Also don't get too heavy handed with the sand paper.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #78 on:** January 09, 2017, 01:26:49 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on January 09, 2017, 11:12:49 AM

Looks good in the pics. See what time and patience will do. I too have the problem of tearing the excess when doing wing tips. Also learned hard way not to use hot air gun on the open bays. But I defy anyone to see where I had to add a patch under the paint. If you do have to do a patch remember to kind of tear the piece for the patch in a circler shape. Also don't get too heavy handed with the sand paper.

Will do thanks!

I used heat like in Sparkys video an to my surprise I didn't burn through, at least I don't think I did!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #79 on:** January 10, 2017, 09:40:04 AM »

You would know immediately if it did.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #80 on:** January 14, 2017, 05:20:08 PM »

Well so far I've found that it is very easy to sand through polyspan. Open bays are my problems, I think I sanded trough about 4 or 5 spots. Thankfully on the bottom only. Sure is a fine line in sanding that stuff, silkspan too.

Got the wing epoxied in and drying. I sure made some goofy jig but seems to be working. Better than just pinning it and hoping for the best I suppose.

Think my arms going to fall off from all the sanding!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #81 on:** January 14, 2017, 05:43:00 PM »

What grit paper are you using? Also I don't really sand all the area of the poly-span. I sand only the area of over lap that is usually rough to the feel. Also I may have as much as 8 coats of dope thinned to water consistency before I apply primer/filler coats. When doing the primer coats you don't want to sand down to the poly. On open bays I have very little primer/blocking coat and use the finest grit paper I can like 400. A someone said, sanding is an art unto it self. As I stated earlier lightly sand the rough areas.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #82 on:** January 14, 2017, 07:42:44 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on January 14, 2017, 05:43:00 PM

What grit paper are you using? Also I don't really sand all the area of the poly-span. I sand only the area of over lap that is usually rough to the feel. Also I may have as much as 8 coats of dope thinned to water consistency before I apply primer/filler coats. When doing the primer coats you don't want to sand down to the poly. On open bays I have very little primer/blocking coat and use the finest grit paper I can like 400. A someone said, sanding is an art unto it self. As I stated earlier lightly sand the rough areas.

320 grit with plenty of inexperience on polyspan or silkspan. I do remember you saying don't sand the open bays much. I asked Sparky if he sands after the first coat and he said after all coats. I found that kind of surprising considering one coat wouldn't be much. But anyway all was going good till the 3rd coat and sanding after that. I guess it will take some practice to it like anything.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #83 on:** January 27, 2017, 02:48:38 PM »

If it feels like some fuzzies on the polyspan of the wing and I do a white sprayed dope base coat will it fill the fuzzies? Or should I go over it again with another coat of thinned dope?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #84 on:** January 28, 2017, 10:05:20 AM »

Actually it is when I have all the rough stuff sanded to my satisfaction do I then spray a good coat of primer/filler on the dope or what ever clear I use on the Poly-Span. Then I sand until it looks like you can see a little of the covering. Even with silkspan, silk, nylon or any type of material you don't want to sand into the material. The clear dope I use is enough coats so that it starts to get a little sheen to it. Then I hit it with the filler/primer coats. Some times it may take several coats to get the grain filled and the last coat is sanded to give the color coats some thing to bind to.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #85 on:** January 29, 2017, 05:56:31 PM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on January 27, 2017, 09:55:04 PM

I've been following this build and admire your skills. Up to then, starting in 1972, I was strictly into free flight and HO model trains.

Thanks! I've stalled a bit on this airplane due to birthdays and such. And I've been messing around with a HO layout that is making me go nuts! Stupid Atlas turnouts (well all my turnouts) are derailing half my engines and cars!

. I must have rocks in my head for running 3 ovals all hooked together. Eveytime I mess with turnouts I wonder why I mess with trains. Older than dirt turnouts and even the 2 new Atlas turnouts are giving me problems, the new turnouts have a fancy recess in the rail that seems to be causing some cars to lift up and derail.
I should just go back to making this airplane heavier by the coat.

TigreST · « **Reply #86 on:** January 31, 2017, 09:47:01 AM »

Quote from: #Liner on January 29, 2017, 05:56:31 PM

Thanks! I've stalled a bit on this airplane due to birthdays and such. And I've been messing around with a HO layout that is making me go nuts! Stupid Atlas turnouts (well all my turnouts) are derailing half my engines and cars! . I must have rocks in my head for running 3 ovals all hooked together. Eveytime I mess with turnouts I wonder why I mess with trains. Older than dirt turnouts and even the 2 new Atlas turnouts are giving me problems, the new turnouts have a fancy recess in the rail that seems to be causing some cars to lift up and derail.
I should just go back to making this airplane heavier by the coat.

Liner,
It's been a very long time since I put rolling stock to rail but... NMRA standard at one point was the RP-25 wheel flange. If your running older rolling stock and engines it is possible that the wheel flanges are not NMRA RP-25 standard. If not, it is possible that the flange on the wheels actually bottoms in the switch frog causing the wheels to lift off the rails and thus a derail occurs. This becomes more important as you change the track code (height) from Code-100 to smaller track code like Code-83 rail and smaller. Track Code= The height of the rail from the top of the railroad tie/sleeper to the top of the rail head. The smaller code rail looks better in a "scale sense" but can be more finicky in a operational sense if wheel flanges and track work (rail joints etc) are not perfect. Rivarossi was one of the major offenders of the wheel flange issue. Their engines and cars were "mostly" fine on Code-100 rail, but not so much on finer scale rail code tracks. I'm going back to the 1980's here with my thinking mind you.

Also, unless you have extremely flexible turnout control linkages to turnout motor and relay switch gear it is not uncommon for derails to happen when you run a train backward through "points" that are not aligned to the actual track in use. If there is enough flex in the switch actuation linkage the "points" of the switch will in some cases, simply be deflected over to allow the wheels to track through the switch. When a stiff linkage is used, the "points" do not deflect and a derail takes place.

Most likely you know about the above but just thought I mention it.

FWIW

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #87 on:** February 01, 2017, 02:51:32 AM »

Quote from: TigreST on January 31, 2017, 09:47:01 AM

Liner,
It's been a very long time since I put rolling stock to rail but... NMRA standard at one point was the RP-25 wheel flange. If your running older rolling stock and engines it is possible that the wheel flanges are not NMRA RP-25 standard. If not, it is possible that the flange on the wheels actually bottoms in the switch frog causing the wheels to lift off the rails and thus a derail occurs. This becomes more important as you change the track code (height) from Code-100 to smaller track code like Code-83 rail and smaller. Track Code= The height of the rail from the top of the railroad tie/sleeper to the top of the rail head. The smaller code rail looks better in a "scale sense" but can be more finicky in a operational sense if wheel flanges and track work (rail joints etc) are not perfect. Rivarossi was one of the major offenders of the wheel flange issue. Their engines and cars were "mostly" fine on Code-100 rail, but not so much on finer scale rail code tracks. I'm going back to the 1980's here with my thinking mind you.

Also, unless you have extremely flexible turnout control linkages to turnout motor and relay switch gear it is not uncommon for derails to happen when you run a train backward through "points" that are not aligned to the actual track in use. If there is enough flex in the switch actuation linkage the "points" of the switch will in some cases, simply be deflected over to allow the wheels to track through the switch. When a stiff linkage is used, the "points" do not deflect and a derail takes place.

Most likely you know about the above but just thought I mention it.

FWIW

I did learn not to long ago what code-83 and code-100 ment lol. I have code-100. I sat there for hours trying to figure out the problems. Most of my stuff trains and cars are from the 80's or older. I heard there were different wheels. Looks to me like the cars that have no problem have a bevel on the vertical part of the wheel and the problem cars have a a very thin vertical part of the wheel causing it to slip in between the "point rails". If any of that makes sense.

TigreST · « **Reply #88 on:** February 01, 2017, 07:03:10 AM »

Yeah makes sense to me. One other thing to check: Ensure the wheel sets are actually "in gauge" ie: spaced correctly on the axles so they fit between/on the rails. If to wide or to narrow problems can present. Good luck.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #89 on:** February 01, 2017, 10:48:54 AM »

Do I get extra credit for playing with my original 1963 Lionel O gage train set recently

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #90 on:** February 28, 2017, 06:10:45 PM »

Do you ever just get sick of sanding and say screw it, just paint it and it is what it is?

David Hoover · « **Reply #91 on:** February 28, 2017, 07:09:03 PM »

Quote from: #Liner on February 28, 2017, 06:10:45 PM

Do you ever just get sick of sanding and say screw it, just paint it and it is what it is?

You bet!

Looking good though.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #92 on:** February 28, 2017, 10:30:17 PM »

You're asking us or me. If you could see my planes in person you would know the answer. In fact one of the guys I fly with once in a while said he wished I could put a decent finish on a plane.

Carl Cisneros · « **Reply #93 on:** February 28, 2017, 11:49:34 PM »

looking really nice Chris.

One question tho, is it the camera shot or is your landing gear angled towards the rear of the plane?

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #94 on:** March 01, 2017, 01:56:39 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on February 28, 2017, 10:30:17 PM

You're asking us or me. If you could see my planes in person you would know the answer. In fact one of the guys I fly with once in a while said he wished I could put a decent finish on a plane.

I was just throwing that out there for anyone. Ha ha but good to know Doc!

Quote from: Carl Cisneros on February 28, 2017, 11:49:34 PM

looking really nice Chris.

One question tho, is it the camera shot or is your landing gear angled towards the rear of the plane?

You are correct the landing gear is angled to the rear. That's what the plans called for, I thought it was strange myself!

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #95 on:** March 01, 2017, 02:53:02 AM »

Quote from: Carl Cisneros on February 28, 2017, 11:49:34 PM

looking really nice Chris.

One question tho, is it the camera shot or is your landing gear angled towards the rear of the plane?

Although I do remember watching a "hangout" once and Sparky said the wheels should be right below the leading edge. So maybe that's the reason they did this.

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #96 on:** March 19, 2017, 04:02:00 PM »

#2 is cruising along!

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #97 on:** April 18, 2017, 05:55:26 PM »

Almost done with the twins.

Carl Cisneros · « **Reply #98 on:** April 18, 2017, 09:55:14 PM »

Chris

those are great looking planes buddy!!!!

You going to fly one of those at Brodaks?

Carl

Chris Fretz · « **Reply #99 on:** April 19, 2017, 02:19:23 AM »

Quote from: Carl Cisneros on April 18, 2017, 09:55:14 PM

Chris

those are great looking planes buddy!!!!

You going to fly one of those at Brodaks?

Carl

If one of them will do a couple successful stunts I will. If they don't I'll hang them on a wall in the garage.

Boy that 2k spray urathane has taken 2 days to dry. I wouldn't of thought it would take that long. They felt pretty good and dry this morning. Maybe I can mount some of the heavy stuff on them today and see my disappointed final weights. Although I'm not sure what a good weight for a Tanager is. I saw some people say on here theirs were in the 32oz range. I have no idea how you can get them that light with a engine strapped on. Right now one is 29oz and the other is 31oz. I I'll be in the mid to high 40's