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Author Topic: Super-Fil  (Read 3147 times)

Offline Perry Rose

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Super-Fil
« on: February 07, 2019, 03:58:30 PM »
I always used micro balloons and epoxy for fillets. I ran out of micro balloons and got some Super-Fil from Aircraft Spruce. It's my first time using the stuff. I didn't way to tape the fillet area up like I used to and came up with a better way. I had some 2 ounce syringes and after mixint the Super-Fil I put it into the syringe. On the needle end I put a short piece of large fuel tubing. using the syringe like a caulking gun I applied a bead of mix along the wing root followed closely with a radius tool and then a wet finger. Denatured alcohol. The bit of excess mix came right off with the alcohol and the syringe cleaned up quickly as well. I used a piece of medium tubing on the syringe and a popsicle stick for a radius tool to fillet around the canopy. I did use a strip of tape to protect the canopy.
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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2019, 04:11:47 PM »
Super-Fil is great, I just wish they would make it in balsa wood color.
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Offline Perry Rose

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2019, 10:54:39 AM »
I wonder if food coloring would change the color?
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Offline Jim Mynes

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2019, 03:44:45 PM »
I wonder if food coloring would change the color?

Try it and let us know!
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2019, 08:51:43 PM »
I wonder if food coloring would change the color?

 Probably. What color do you mix with light blue to get "balsa" color?  S?P
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2019, 09:24:45 PM »
Wayne and Perry,
I think you would have to add yellow, and a tad of red. But it will likely end up too dark to mimic balsa. If you had some white pigment, it would help. The food coloring from the grocery store is water-based and will not improve the qualities of the Super Fil--and may prevent it from curing correctly. But the pigments used for epoxy colorant would almost certainly work. Just not sure you can get all the way to a golden balsa color when starting with something that has a fair amount of blue in it already. At least, not in small quantities. If you have some epoxy pigments, it is worth a try. I may have some yellow, and the next time I have some leftover fillet material, I will try to remember to play with it.

Divot McSlow

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2019, 10:34:31 PM »

 I was joking actually, nothing will mix to make it "balsa" color. Once you get to priming and painting it doesn't really matter anyway, the light blue covers easily with most finish work.

 Thinking about it a little more the light blue works out well while doing the fillet work, it gives a contrast against the balsa so you can better see what your doing.

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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2019, 02:14:14 AM »
For building composite airplanes (full scale) I agree the blue color is fine. I miss the wood color of Epoxolite for clear finish airplanes. Blue on a naked finish is bad....

Have you tried mixing color into it?

Divot McSlow

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2019, 06:19:53 AM »
Perry,

Quote
I always used micro balloons and epoxy for fillets. I ran out of micro balloons and got some Super-Fil from Aircraft Spruce.

Why didn't you just order Micro-balloons?

You can control the mix with Micro-balloons, dry or wet AND in between.

I use mostly 5 minute epoxy when I do fillets. Two cups for each mix because it dries fast. I add a drop of yellow water base air brush paint, acrylic, so I can see when the mix is completed, not smart to over mix, that time can be used to apply the stuff.

Wearing surgical gloves works well for the spreading, no clean up on the fingers, a quick water or alcohol wipe to smooth things out and you're done, nothing else is needed. Paper towel is quick and inexpensive. Sometimes just a wet finger will do it.

I can get both top or bottom wing fillets done in minutes this way with virtually no sanding. Finger tips are round and pressure controls the fillet radius.

I like them small, less material and less weight.

There are photos of this at the GBR-3 build. The Build might be at CFC Graphic's vendor's corner?

I believe just about a half hour to get all of the model's fillets completed. No tools, no sticks needed, simple simple.

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Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2019, 07:55:54 AM »
For building composite airplanes (full scale) I agree the blue color is fine. I miss the wood color of Epoxolite for clear finish airplanes. Blue on a naked finish is bad....

Have you tried mixing color into it?

Divot McSlow

The Epoxolite I used in the past was dark brown in color.  Was there a time when it was wood color?

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2019, 09:06:37 AM »
Jim,
I used it for a number of years, and used two different batches. Both were a bit darker than the balsa, but looked ok on a "woody" clear finish if applied cleanly. I would not characterize it as dark brown after mixing. (One part was dark brown before mixing.) Maybe the color varied with different batches?

When Epoxolite became unobtainium here in SoCal, I tested a number of different methods, including epoxy and balsa dust, epoxy and microballoons and others. Super Fil was the standout among all these for the way I wanted to use the material. So Super Fil it is....

Dave

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2019, 10:44:45 AM »
Perry,

Why didn't you just order Micro-balloons?

You can control the mix with Micro-balloons, dry or wet AND in between.

I use mostly 5 minute epoxy when I do fillets. Two cups for each mix because it dries fast. I add a drop of yellow water base air brush paint, acrylic, so I can see when the mix is completed, not smart to over mix, that time can be used to apply the stuff.

Wearing surgical gloves works well for the spreading, no clean up on the fingers, a quick water or alcohol wipe to smooth things out and you're done, nothing else is needed. Paper towel is quick and inexpensive. Sometimes just a wet finger will do it.

I can get both top or bottom wing fillets done in minutes this way with virtually no sanding. Finger tips are round and pressure controls the fillet radius.

I like them small, less material and less weight.

There are photos of this at the GBR-3 build. The Build might be at CFC Graphic's vendor's corner?

I believe just about a half hour to get all of the model's fillets completed. No tools, no sticks needed, simple simple.



      Super-Fil and/or Aeropoxy light are far superior to micro-balloons and conventional epoxy. I have done them with all the normal materials and Super-fil is the best combination of ease of use, weight, and cost. I did the "10 minute fillets" using 5-minute epoxy and micro-balloon (which turns into 3-minute epoxy when its 105 degrees, which was the temperature of David's garage when we did it) and it was quick, and since it was an emergency repair with no time, it was acceptable. But it was not good, there is no time to adjust it even at normal temperatures. You don't want to use slower epoxy because while it gives much more working time, it has even more tendency to run and is still unnecessarily heavy.


    But there is no way to optimize the shape (it wants to just run off), it's hard to sand afterwards, and it's heavy. Even Epoxolite (which was the only good solution at the time - *thixotropic epoxy* (like Hobbypoxy Formula 3) and something like micro-balloons, so it wouldn't run but still give some working time) is better, and it is far and away worse than the other solutions. Super-fil is like Epoxolite with all the heinous flaws corrected (including the obscene cost).

     Brett

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2019, 11:40:45 AM »
Jim,
I used it for a number of years, and used two different batches. Both were a bit darker than the balsa, but looked ok on a "woody" clear finish if applied cleanly. I would not characterize it as dark brown after mixing. (One part was dark brown before mixing.) Maybe the color varied with different batches?

When Epoxolite became unobtainium here in SoCal, I tested a number of different methods, including epoxy and balsa dust, epoxy and microballoons and others. Super Fil was the standout among all these for the way I wanted to use the material. So Super Fil it is....

Dave

OK, thanks for that info.  The Epoxolite I used had one part dark brown, the other part was gray.  This resulted in a "not so dark brown" final mix, but still rather dark, much darker than balsa.    To cover it with dope, I usually had to put a blocker coat of gray dope over it first before applying any color.

Until Super Fil came along, I was stuck with Epoxolite because there was nothing else out there that I liked.   Epoxolite took forever to set up so that it could be sanded, and then it was like trying to sand a rock.  The only thing I really liked about it was being able to use water to thin and smooth it and and to clean up.

The Super Fil is far better and the light blue color is no issue with me.


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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2019, 01:32:27 PM »
      Super-Fil and/or Aeropoxy light are far superior to micro-balloons and conventional epoxy. I have done them with all the normal materials and Super-fil is the best combination of ease of use, weight, and cost. I did the "10 minute fillets" using 5-minute epoxy and micro-balloon (which turns into 3-minute epoxy when its 105 degrees, which was the temperature of David's garage when we did it) and it was quick, and since it was an emergency repair with no time, it was acceptable. But it was not good, there is no time to adjust it even at normal temperatures. You don't want to use slower epoxy because while it gives much more working time, it has even more tendency to run and is still unnecessarily heavy.


    But there is no way to optimize the shape (it wants to just run off), it's hard to sand afterwards, and it's heavy. Even Epoxolite (which was the only good solution at the time - *thixotropic epoxy* (like Hobbypoxy Formula 3) and something like micro-balloons, so it wouldn't run but still give some working time) is better, and it is far and away worse than the other solutions. Super-fil is like Epoxolite with all the heinous flaws corrected (including the obscene cost).

     Brett

Hard to believe you're having problems with the Micro-Balloon medium. Be interesting to see if others have the same issues?

It's never been a problem child for myself, but there again, I started using it over 40 years ago. I got the hang of it.  LL~

Takes a bit of getting used to, but certainly, I strongly believe it has advantages over the blue stuff.

Possibly it's time for someone to do a few tests with both products seeing there's such disagreements as to which is best. It may depend on who's using it?

One advantage with micro-balloons is the mix, you have control of it, wet or dry depending where it's used and for the reason. You can add it to Epoxy and still use it as glue but a lighter glue.

Isn't the other product just a 50% 50% mix? If true, that alone will limit it's uses.

Can't talk me out of using micro-balloons, I've used it on all my models in many places with a variety of mixes depending on the use.

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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2019, 02:05:52 PM »
Hard to believe you're having problems with the Micro-Balloon medium. Be interesting to see if others have the same issues?

It's never been a problem child for myself, but there again, I started using it over 40 years ago. I got the hang of it.  LL~
Can't talk me out of using micro-balloons, I've used it on all my models in many places with a variety of mixes depending on the use.


   Super-Fil was the topic, not your self-aggrandizment or delusions of competence.
 
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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2019, 02:45:58 PM »

   Super-Fil was the topic, not your self-aggrandizment or delusions of competence.
 
     Brett

Brett,

How many Threads are you going to "muddy" today?

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Offline James Holford

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2019, 07:03:10 PM »
Super-fil all day..

 2 to 1 mix.  Simple. Cleans up quik and easy. No mess. No worries about control mix. Just 2 to 1.  Dont have to worry about rushing to get fillet done before it dries.. Alcohol on the finger reacts the same when its wet or dry. Sanding optional :)

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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2019, 11:06:03 PM »
I donít like Super-fil, but it worked well to fill the gap under the sill of my new shop door. It hardened at 50 degrees or so.
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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2019, 12:12:18 AM »
Hard to believe you're having problems with the Micro-Balloon medium. Be interesting to see if others have the same issues?

It's never been a problem child for myself, but there again, I started using it over 40 years ago. I got the hang of it.  LL~

Takes a bit of getting used to, but certainly, I strongly believe it has advantages over the blue stuff.

Possibly it's time for someone to do a few tests with both products seeing there's such disagreements as to which is best. It may depend on who's using it?

One advantage with micro-balloons is the mix, you have control of it, wet or dry depending where it's used and for the reason. You can add it to Epoxy and still use it as glue but a lighter glue.

Isn't the other product just a 50% 50% mix? If true, that alone will limit it's uses.

Can't talk me out of using micro-balloons, I've used it on all my models in many places with a variety of mixes depending on the use.

the "Jet"


    There is so much wrong with this, I don't know where to start, so I won't! Let's just say that maybe it's a good thing that you don't fly your models, and if you do, all spectators should stand behind a tree or a port-a-potty.
 
     And I do use micro balloons and finish cure epoxy for my fillets and such. I am also sure that Super-Fil is a good product in the hands of someone that has read it's instructions and mixes it accordingly.

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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2019, 12:25:54 AM »
Howard,

If you have any left over from your door sill project, you still could use it on model airplanes. Trust me, it isn't that bad.

I continue to be leery of using alcohol and a bare finger that so many guys recommend. Alcohol apparently has a property of penetrating the skin fairly easily, and introducing any kind of epoxy resins into your system can lead to medical issues. Guys that work with epoxies a lot, like homebuilt airplane guys or boat builders find that a certain percentage of the population suddenly gets sensitized, and future work must be curtailed. And you don't know until you hit that wall. All the guys who seem immune will say it is not an issue. And maybe they will never be affected. But lots of others are, and you can't "undo it."

A few years ago, I was getting ready to put fillets on the latest model, but when I opened the Epoxolite, it had hardened and was no longer usable.The tests I ran on the different materials used techniques and tools that I had evolved for Epoxolite. So I modified as seemed necessary when I saw how the different materials I tried reacted.

1. EZ-Lam epoxy (30 minute) loaded with wood flour (balsa). Still pretty heavy. Hard to sand. Difficult to smooth out. Did not readily wet out and adhere to balsa substrate. Seemed like the wood flour absorbed all of the stickiness of the epoxy. Pinkish color. (I tried this first because it seemed possible this was similar to SIGís recipe. If so, it was not close enough to get the same good results.)

2. EZ-Lam epoxy (30-minute) heavily loaded with colloidal silica and microballoons (50/50). Stiff mixture that stays put, but cannot be smoothed out with wet wiping techniques. Pebbly finish. Very hard to sand. Medium gray.

3. Wetter mixture of (2), with less silica. Smoother, but still hard to sand. Medium gray.

4. Polyester filler (Bondo). Ran test just for comparison. Sands easily. Hard to smooth out wet but might be easy with better technique. Heavy. Uncertain compatibility with finishes. Future shrinkage issues? Pink.

5. 30-minute epoxy heavily loaded with cabosil. Cabosil makes it thixotropic. Hard to sand, Not flexible. Mediocre surface finish after wet-wipe. I lost this sample, so I do not know which kind of epoxy I used.

6. Super Fil. Easy mix. Light weight. Smoothness and spreading almost as good as Epoxolite. Not as ďstickyĒ as Epoxolite, so a bit more work to trowel into corners, and probably not as good for making structural joints. Not hard to shape or sand. Blue.

7. Minimalist fillets. For quick jobs, I now simply stand the plane on one wingtip and put a bead of regular 30-minute epoxy in the corner. Wet out the edges and let it do the meniscus thing. It actually works pretty good. Note that any epoxy that mixes 50/50 already has filler in it, according to the bonding experts I used to work with. Clear with yellow tint.

So after trying all the stuff I had on hand in tests 1 thru 5, I ordered some Super Fil. The project sat a couple of days but not a big deal. After trying the Super Fil, it was so much better than the others that I stopped any further tests. Other methods and other combinations might produce something with results equal to Super Fil, but I was a long way from it.

I think results are highly technique dependent, and one personís acceptable might be 10 rows back for an expert builder. And without seeing one anotherís ďacceptableĒ you can only guess whether it would meet your standards. These were my observations, for what they are worth. All my planes since these tests use methods 6 or 7, depending on what it is.

Dave

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2019, 08:15:53 PM »
In the eighty's and ninety's  I used Epoxolite. It's very heavy compared to modern fillers. I did the finishing resin and micro balloons as well. After the last 50 or so airplanes I have used Super-Fil and find that it is much easier to sand and weighs 1/2 as much.
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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2019, 08:53:22 PM »
 Over the years I've tried and/or used most of the products and methods described above. Out of all those I had the best luck with regular (Bob Smith) 30 minute epoxy mixed with a heavy helping of micro balloons, to the point where the mixture was essentially white. It actually worked pretty well but I always felt there had to be something better out there. Then, roughly 8-9 years ago I tried Super-Fil for the first time and was instantly sold on it, it's great stuff and all I ever use anymore. I don't care if Avaiojet agrees or not, he's completely lost in his own conversation here and is way off base, as usual.  D>K
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2019, 08:59:33 PM »
I donít like Super-fil, but it worked well to fill the gap under the sill of my new shop door. It hardened at 50 degrees or so.

 Howard, if you don't like Super-Fil what do you use?
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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2019, 10:43:29 AM »
On a transparent or tinted finish, I've used West Systems 105 epoxy with 410 filler. It's a light brown. They have 6 different filler materials.  404 works pretty well but 410 is easier to sand. Not as light as SuperFil and if you are using an opaque finish, definitely go with SuperFil. It's a superior product.
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2019, 01:45:33 PM »
Data sheet on the 410 filler:

     https://www.westsystem.com/wp-content/uploads/410-Microlight-Technical-Data-Sheet.pdf

It lists the density of the fully loaded epoxy at 27 lb/ft3. Notes that it is the easiest to sand filler. And other stuff.

They also have two really great diagrams: one is a tree that shows the different fillers; the other a matrix with ranked properties.


Dave

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2019, 03:40:03 PM »
Howard, if you don't like Super-Fil what do you use?

I use Super-Fil.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2019, 08:46:51 PM »
I use Super-Fil.

 Oh, you must have been jiving with the earlier comment.  ;D
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 08:27:44 PM by wwwarbird »
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2019, 11:38:12 PM »
Imagine my delight after being out to 30+ years to find Super-Fil.  Micro-balloons were fun but Super-Fil is heaven and you can sneeze while you are mixing it!
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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2019, 08:48:25 PM »
Well, I guess at my own peril, I will offer my experience.  I have used both Super-Fil and Micro Balloons for applying fillets.  I like both products but lean toward epoxy and balloons.  I have had best result with mixing the micro balloons with SLOW West Systems epoxy.  If you mix it to the consistency of toothpaste, you will have all the working time you need and it smooths really nice with a finger dipped in alcohol.   It takes a lot of time but I do tape off both the fuselage and wing to the width I want the fillet and smooth it as described above with a finger dipped in alcohol.  Then I immediately remove the tape and smooth again to get rid of the ridges. 

Super-Fil works equally as good and I use the exact same methods as I do with the micro balloons.  The only drawback is the price.  Very expensive for what it is but it does last me a long time due to the rate I build models.  Shelf life is excellent also. 

I only did one model with leather fillets but when Bill Sawyer died, I did not know where to find them.  I thought the results with the leather were good as well.

I also saw Al Rabe create balsa fillets but I only attempted it once and the results were horrible.  I aint Al Rabe.

Mike
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Offline Skip Chernoff

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2019, 10:14:42 PM »
I guess one day I'll have to try the Super Fil.Regarding the epoxy with the balloons I like being able to control the consistency of the mix by playing with the amount of balloons to the amount of epoxy. Yes the wet alcohol dipped finger makes for a very nice fillet.

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2019, 07:12:54 AM »

I also saw Al Rabe create balsa fillets but I only attempted it once and the results were horrible.  I aint Al Rabe.

I still use the lightest balsa I can find.  I like really big fillets around the wing.  I use 1" with a cutout matching the 1st rib and sand it to fit up to the high point then hollow it to about 1/16".  3/4" for a bit followed by 1/4" over the flaps.  Sand them to shape using a 1/2" and 1/4" sandpaper covered dowel.   Glue them back on, flare the edges, brush on a coat of thinned epoxy to stiffen and wetfinger a coat of superfill over the whole mess.  It is a bit of work but the results are good and it is about as light as you can get for a big fillet.  The only thing that I have seen that is lighter was a molded ABS set I saw a long time ago.  Too much trouble making the mold unless you fly the same wing all the time.  Maybe that is why everybody seems to have small ones now!

Ken
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2019, 10:29:26 PM »
Oh, you must have been jiving with the earlier comment.  ;D

I use it.  Doesn't mean I like it. 

I used some tonight to patch the ceiling of my shower.  It's more annoying to work with than wallboard mud, but it should be waterproof.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2019, 12:24:47 PM »
 
I used some tonight to patch the ceiling of my shower.  It's more annoying to work with than wallboard mud, but it should be waterproof.

 Ever the innovator!  ;D
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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2019, 08:42:42 PM »
For forming fillets pattern makers use some tools that look like ball bearings on the end of a stick.  I tried epoxying different sized marbles on the end of short dowel pieces and it worked like a charm - gave me the best looking fillets I've ever made when working with micro balloons and epoxy and I didn't have to clean the epoxy mess off of my hands.    Just enough sanding to break the glaze on the surface and they were ready to go.  Good luck, Guys.

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2019, 12:26:54 AM »
Pattern maker's fillet tools:

     https://www.freemansupply.com/products/specialty-waxes/wax-fillets-accessories/fillet-tools

That is also where the leather fillets modelers used to use came from--from wooden patterns for low rate production or limited quantity sand casting.

     https://www.freemansupply.com/products/foundry-tools-supplies/freeman-leather-fillets

Dave

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2019, 01:37:28 AM »
When I returned to this hobby a couple of year ago, I was only familiar with using polyester resin and micro balloons for fillets. What a mess and the smell would 'gag a maggot'. They weren't too easy to sand either.

I soon learned about using epoxy with micro balloons. This was an improvement over the resin and micro balloons. Don't use 5 minute epoxy with micro balloons. 5 minute epoxy will go off in 2 minutes. Don't ask me how I know.

On my latest plane I decided to try and use Super Fil for the first time. As a result, I am now Super Fil fan. I'll take Super Fil over any of these other methods!  #^

Just tape off the area around the fillet, Mix Super Fill 2 to 1 per the instructions. I used a Popsicle stick to place the Super Fil into the area and used a cake decorating tool to remove the excess and shape the fillet. Let the Super Fil start to setup, remove the tape and smooth it out with alcohol. Very smooth fillets with very little sanding.

I have used the stainless steel cake decorating stylus even when I used epoxy with micro balloons. These work great with Super Fil as well. I picked a set of them off of eBay for around $4.00 several years ago (see picture below).


Dennis

Here's a picture of my latest build using Super Fil




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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2019, 09:10:56 PM »

 Great looking build Dennis, what is it?
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Online Dennis Nunes

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2019, 09:45:05 PM »
Great looking build Dennis, what is it?

The plane is my own design called Circulas 61 with a wingspan of 61" with 670 square inches. The power plant is a RO-Jett .61 BSE "Brett Buck Special" with a tuned pipe.

Dennis

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2019, 12:36:39 PM »
I thought the price for the Super-fil was high, but I ordered it any way.  Sure glad I did.  Only draw back is getting the stuff mixed back together before mixing the two parts together. HB~>
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2019, 01:14:00 PM »
I thought the price for the Super-fil was high, but I ordered it any way.  Sure glad I did.  Only draw back is getting the stuff mixed back together before mixing the two parts together. HB~>
One more - DON'T Put the White Lid on the Blue Container.  If you doubt that it is Epoxy based you won't in the morning! ~^

Ken
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2019, 09:05:02 PM »
The plane is my own design called Circulas 61 with a wingspan of 61" with 670 square inches. The power plant is a RO-Jett .61 BSE "Brett Buck Special" with a tuned pipe.

Dennis

 Great looker Dennis, the profile outline looks a lot like a Force. Please keep us posted with your progress!
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2019, 04:27:24 AM »
Being an old builder has its advantages... I've tried all the fillet materials over the 60-plus years I've been building. Everything from plastic balsa to Super-Fil. I used to like Epoxolite; it was a good product. Super-Fil in my opinion is the very best fillet material to come along for our use. Having said that, please use whatever works best for you!

One thing I will mention here - and something that I've written about in articles and columns over the years - is the method of putting in fillets. Many advocate using a wetted finger to smooth the fillet to shape. I strongly disagree with that approach. Our hands contain lanolin. When a finger is used to shape a fillet that lanolin is transferred into the fillet. Also, the wetted finger method leaves a "sealed" surface on the fillet. What we really want is some "tooth" in the fillet's surface to allow the finish to sink in an adhere better. If you are sanding the fillet after it is installed, that will open the pores of the material and allow for good paint adhesion.

One thing I'm certain of, is that running your finger over and over across the installed fillet to "admire" the finished product is the very worst thing you can do if you don't want the paint to bubble or lift off the fillet later on. Again, the lanolin in your finger will transfer into the sanded fillet cause problems in finishing. 
I'm very careful to not let any portion of my hand touch any of the fillets on my ships throughout the building and finishing process. When friends come in to my shop when a new ship is on the board and they want to inspect it, I politely, but sternly, instruct them to not run their fingers across the surface of the fillets. And, I've not had a fillet "pop" or "bubble" in many years...

I'm attaching a few photos that depict how I install fillets.

Bob Hunt
 

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2019, 06:58:44 AM »
One more thing: I get my Super-Fil from Aircraft Spruce and Specialties. It costs a lot less from them than from the various hobby outlets that carry it.

Attached is a photo of the finished model that was the subject of my post about how to install fillets. The fillets came out great and have never bubbled.



 

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2019, 11:35:51 AM »
One more thing: I get my Super-Fil from Aircraft Spruce and Specialties. It costs a lot less from them than from the various hobby outlets that carry it.

Attached is a photo of the finished model that was the subject of my post about how to install fillets. The fillets came out great and have never bubbled.
Bit off the subject but where did you get the spinner?  I can't seem to find a reasonably price 2" pusher electric spinner.

Thanks - ken
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2019, 11:40:45 AM »
Hi Ken:

I'm pretty sure that was a Tru-Turn electric spinner. The holes really didn't do much for the cooling, however...

Later - Bob

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2019, 12:34:08 PM »
Hi Ken:

I'm pretty sure that was a Tru-Turn electric spinner. The holes really didn't do much for the cooling, however...

Later - Bob
Thanks - I have never had a motor overheat (yet) using a tractor version with holes but: I also leave a much larger gap between the spinner and fuselage (about 1/16") and have a huge "tunnel" with all the electric junk in it.  I have heard from a couple of others, mostly speed types that the cutouts don't help (which does not mean that they don't work).  Coming from you I now think that it is true.

How about the cutout in the back plate?  Is it possible with a Cobra type motor that the draw from the tunnel and the spinning case is enough to keep it cool?  If so, then I don't need those hard to find spinners.  They do look cool though.

It really sucks being a rookie after 60 years in the league but this electric stuff is a whole new language and set of common knowledge to learn!   Am I wrong in assuming that no amount of cooling is going to prevent a motor from overheating?  If it overheats then something else is wrong?  Shouldn't my first concern be the ESC then the battery and last the motor.

Sorry that I have gone off topic - Ken

 
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2019, 07:11:43 AM »
Hi Ken:

The spinner is the Tru-Turn Turbo-Flow variant. A very nicely made spinner, but costly and not that effective in my experience. What has proven to be very effective is using an annular inlet around the outside of the spinner. I'm attaching a photo that shows this type of arrangement. The air flows in around the perimeter of the backplate and into the plenum chamber in front of the Hardnose mount - which has holes in it that line up with the holes in the front of the motor. The air is forced through the mount and on through the motor and most certainly cools down the motor very well.

In my experience the critical components to keep cool in order are the ESC, then the motor, and then the battery. The new batteries don't seem to get too warm.

Later - Bob

« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 06:06:35 AM by Bob Hunt »

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2019, 08:41:24 AM »
Hi Ken:

The spinner is the Tru-Turn Turbo-Flow variant. A very nicely made spinner, but costly and not that effective in my experience. What has proven to be very effective is using aa annular inlet around the outside of the spinner. I'm attaching a photo that shows this type of arrangement. The air flows in around the perimeter of the backplate and into the plenum chamber in front of the Hardnose mount - which has holes in it that line up with the holes in the front of the motor. The air is forced through the mount and on through the motor and most certainly cools down the motor very well.

In my experience the critical components to keep cool in order are the ESC, then the motor, and then the battery. The new batteries don't seem to get too warm.

Later - Bob

I really like that and it is not too late.  Not only does it look good but I can see it really works.  Is about 1/16 around the spinner enough?  More and I will have a cowling issue.  If I do this do I need the spinner with holes in the backplate?  I can see where that might be counter productive.

Ken
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2019, 09:55:34 AM »
Hi Ken:

Yeah, 1/16 is plenty. Holes in the backplate neither help nor hurt in this case. The holes will give you a lighter backplate, however, and that could be good.

Later - Bob

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Super-Fil
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2019, 10:44:16 AM »
Hi Ken:

Yeah, 1/16 is plenty. Holes in the backplate neither help nor hurt in this case. The holes will give you a lighter backplate, however, and that could be good.

Later - Bob

Thanks - I just checked my ship and dropping from a 2" to a 1 3/4 spinner gives me the room to add the lip with very little effort!

Ken

Did the surgery and I think I like it. Now to blend it in with .....Super Fil! #^    Thanks Bob.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 12:37:04 AM by Ken Culbertson »
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