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Author Topic: Line tension  (Read 2151 times)

Offline John Watson

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Line tension
« on: July 17, 2018, 09:43:41 AM »
Do I move the lines more forward coming out of the wing for more line tension or move them aft?

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 11:46:57 AM »
Do I move the lines more forward coming out of the wing for more line tension or move them aft?

Yes, depending on whether they're too far back or too far forward.  It's complicated.  Read this, starting with the December 2015 column: http://flyinglines.org/walkerstunt.html
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 04:42:23 PM »
Hi John, You move the lead outs back for more line tension.

     Unless they are too far back already. It's not oen of those things where if a little is good then a lot must be better.  Not enough information in the original post to call it one way or the other..
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 05:54:03 PM »
Doubtful.

Unless he's only noticing the lack of line tension at 45 degrees and above, in which case it's pretty likely.  Dan's right -- John needs to tell us more, or go do some experimentation.
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2018, 07:08:08 AM »
Doubtful.


        Most people have no clue about this, and general human reaction is if a little is good a lot is better.  Look at all the plans and designs out there with lead outs too far back. That was something I didn't know getting started and neither did you. it's almost counter intuitive for most people to think that moving them forward is the right thing to do. I have a Jamison  OTS model that the original builder made the lead out guide adjustable with the spacing the same as the bell crank. The rear lead out was damn near at the trailing edge. Not very flyable at this position. Reworked the adjustable lead out guide with the spacing about 1" and moved the lead way the heck forward of the spar, I think and now it will pull like a .60 ship anywhere you point it. I don't know Mr. Watson but if he's like a lot of other guys on the forum he's a retread getting back into the hobby and remembers things like they were, so his first models will likely have lead outs too far back. trhe main thing I cautions people with moving lead outs is to mark the location so you can move them back in case you do not get the desired affect, and do so before making any other changes.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2018, 08:31:25 AM »
but if he's like a lot of other guys on the forum he's a retread getting back into the hobby and remembers things like they were, so his first models will likely have lead outs too far back.
Quite honestly I resemble that remark.  My first experience with adjustable leadouts came when I got back in in January.  I build my own so the first ship out of the jig had totally adjustable leadouts over a 4" range mounted where I used to put them.  I was OK using the forward most settings till I got some of the new brass lines which have far less rake.  You can't move the forward most setting forward!  Not so adjustable anymore.

My answer to the initial question - over 45 forward, under 45 back.  I am probably in the minority on this one but personally on a new ship I trim my tip weight and leadout position at 45+ then do the other stuff below 45.  Nothing screws up you day worse than not having enough tension to do the hourglass and OH8.

Ken

« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 02:44:26 PM by Ken Culbertson »
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2018, 10:04:13 AM »
Do I move the lines more forward coming out of the wing for more line tension or move them aft?

Not so simple.  Moving the leadouts back will point the nose out which should help, but also reduce airspeed which decreases line pull. 
There is a correct position somewhere in the middle.
Paul Smith

Offline John Watson

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2018, 06:28:50 PM »
I have a Sig Banshee and when I try any maneuver other than level flight the lines slack up. I have the recommended offset on the plans of the engine and rudder. I am building a Twister that I will incorporate the adjustable leadouts. I didn't fly much stunt many years back just mostly rat racing , combat and goodyear. Too old for all that now so just trying to fly some stunt and starting with these profiles and later to a full fuselage. Already have learned a lot reading here.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2018, 07:06:00 PM »
I have a Sig Banshee and when I try any maneuver other than level flight the lines slack up. I have the recommended offset on the plans of the engine and rudder. I am building a Twister that I will incorporate the adjustable leadouts. I didn't fly much stunt many years back just mostly rat racing , combat and goodyear. Too old for all that now so just trying to fly some stunt and starting with these profiles and later to a full fuselage. Already have learned a lot reading here.

Does it go slack when you:
  • Do an inside manuever only?  Then you have a wing warp or tilted stab
  • Do any maneuver at all?  Then you (probably) need tip weight
  • Do an outside maneuver only?  Then you have a wing warp or tilted stab
  • Fly high?  (Ease into this if it's really that squirrely)

Have you visually inspected it for warps?  My preferred method is to stand it up with the spinner on my toe, and sight down the back of the plane with the wings level -- it should be obvious if the stab is level with the wing.  If the wing is straight the trailing edge should -- visually -- be smack in the middle of the wing, not trending upward or downward.

This in not a leadout position problem, unless you mean that it goes slack once it gets up to 45 degrees, not that it goes slack as soon as you turn.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2018, 07:41:52 PM »
I have a Sig Banshee and when I try any maneuver other than level flight the lines slack up. I have the recommended offset on the plans of the engine and rudder. I am building a Twister that I will incorporate the adjustable leadouts. I didn't fly much stunt many years back just mostly rat racing , combat and goodyear. Too old for all that now so just trying to fly some stunt and starting with these profiles and later to a full fuselage. Already have learned a lot reading here.
Did you build it with flaps?  If you did did you use a flap horn or a horn on the flap?  Sometimes the horn on the flap will cause the outboard flap to move solid while the inboard is mushy.  You can check this by holding one and trying to move the other.  It should be difficult to move the other one at all.  Also check the stabs horozontal alignment (Are both ends of the hinge line equal distance from the flap hinge line).
A wing warp will show in level flight.

My guess is tip weight.  I had a Magician as a kid which is not too different from a Banshee and it needed a ton of tip weight, well almost.  Whatever the cause, it is not leadout position - that comes later.

Good Luck - Ken
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Offline John Watson

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2018, 11:48:22 AM »
Thanks for all the input...…...I will make some adjustments and keep trying. Lots of good input thanks a lot.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2018, 08:45:18 PM »
  Before you even get into lead out location, alignment of the model is pretty important. Everything square and straight, no warps. if built to plans specifications, it should fly right off the board. In thinking about it you must have a misalignment or warp some where.
  Type at you later,
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Line tension
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2018, 10:02:44 AM »
As Dan say,  if a plane is built straight, true and light there should be no problems.   I've had several that I did full patterns on second flight because they felt good.  But then again I have had a couple that I have not completely figured out yet. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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