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Building Tips and technical articles. => Building techniques => Topic started by: John Miller on May 05, 2011, 09:34:45 PM
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It's great to finally be starting this project. It's been a long time coming. After a scare when I found that the box of laser cut parts was delivered yesterday while I was out flying with the boys, and no box was in sight.
After looking around the surrounding area relavant to my front porch, I found where the driver had stashed it.
First, I was pleased with the box and packing National Balsa shipped the parts in. Since I felt that this one was for me, I ordered their bargain grade light balsa. I felt the quality of the wood was not bad at all, and the savings was decent.
I cleaned off the work bench, and laid out the parts. Here they are as I recieved them, and as I sortd them out, and re-bagged them to sub- assemblies. I like to do this with every build so I can keep track of, and avoid damage to the parts.
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All right! Here we go. John, everybody is going to be watching this build with interest. Bi-planes are very cool and there are not a lot of good designs for them available. So, we're all hoping yours is a real winner so you can kit it and become rich beyond your wildest dreams and famous throught the world.
Let the story begin......
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Whoops
Didn't mean to quote the post again.
Thanks Clint, but I'm a follower of Larry Cuningham s devotion to stunt. I also am only in it for the women and the money. LL~ LL~ VD~
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Didn't mean to quote the post again.
Thanks Clint, but I'm a follower of Larry Cuningham s devotion to stunt. I also am only in it for the women and the money. LL~ LL~ VD~
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the women. You shall be adored by all.
Now get to work.
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John,
Maybe I missed it somewhere, did NB simply do all the cutting from files that you developed and sent to them or...?
If it all works out to be a nice performer maybe we could tweak the outlines into a P6E Hawk or a Super Stearman! VD~
Thanks for the post John, I'll be watching with interest.
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Yes, I sent them the cutfiles i developed from the CAD drawing. To be honest, I've used several cutters in the past, and recieved great service from them all. My main reason for using NB this time is the convenience of buying the balsa and the cutting at the same scource. Saved some time and at least one shipping charge.
A P6E would look great wouldn't it? I have to keep focus, and see how this project works out. If it's good, I'd be open to things like that. y1
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John,
Better get going. 3 weeks till the Regionals.
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I like what I am seeing already. :)
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After counting all the parts, and checking agianst my pattern sheet, it became clear that one entire plywood sheet was missed in the cutting. In addition, there's the case of two identical parts, and only one was there.
I contacted the cutter, and he replied immediatly, apologising for the oversight, and letting me know that the parts would be cut and shiped that very day. I can't really ask for much better service, and with the amount of parts for this design, can readily see how it could happen.
So, this after noon and eveniing I'll be making laminations. To save on weight, I'll laminate 3/32" balsa, with 1/64" ply on each side, rather than use 1/8" plywood. I've been doing this for years, and have yet to see a part fail. I believe the laminations are very close to the ply in stregnth, at about half the weight.
I'll take pictures of the processs, and post them later.
H^^
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And how many parts are there? LL~ LL~ Also forget the women, they just cost more money. VD~ Also don't forget the pictures as you go. H^^
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And how many parts are there? LL~ LL~ Also forget the women, they just cost more money. VD~ Also don't forget the pictures as you go. H^^
Doc, there are at least 100 parts, maybe more. As for women, at my age all I can hope for is a rich widow. LL~ LL~
I started some of the laminations today. Of course, I went flying first, then I went to lunch, came home to a nap. Ain't gettin' old a blast?
I managed to get the cabane strut laminated, but I've decided that I need to get some more glue. I sanded, and arranged all the parts so I shouldn't get mixed up when it comes to actually doing the laminations.
Here're a few pictures of the parts to be laminated. H^^
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After counting all the parts, and checking agianst my pattern sheet, it became clear that one entire plywood sheet was missed in the cutting. In addition, there's the case of two identical parts, and only one was there.
I contacted the cutter, and he replied immediatly, apologising for the oversight, and letting me know that the parts would be cut and shiped that very day. I can't really ask for much better service, and with the amount of parts for this design, can readily see how it could happen.
Talk about fast service. I recieved, in todays mail, the missing parts. it was friday that I let him know about the missing parts.
Today, I found a local company that manufactures CF tubing. Since they were located just a few miles away, I went to their plant to pick up the CF tubes needed for the take apart wings. They were very helpful, and I wound up with parts that fit together perfectly for what I believe was a reasonable cost.
I also picked up some glues from the LHS and can get going again now that I have all the parts and stuff. #^
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Now that I've managed to get all the parts together, and proper glue, I made some progress this afternoon. I'm attaching some photos of the Carbon Fiber tubes I'll be using to join the wings with. While I was there at the plant, they were able to better understand what my needs were. They cut the tubes exactly to the legnths I wanted. They also sanded the O.D. of the inner tube so it slips into the outer tube like silk.
I'm totally amazed at the stregnth. The outer tube alone, I found impossible to bend in any way. It's O.D. is .375". The weight of each tube assy is 1.4 oz.
Now, the laminated parts. I've attached a picture of them. If made out of 1/8" 3 ply. i suspect the weight would be over 6 oz's. Laminated, they come to 2.75 oz's. and are about the same stregnth.
Next, I'll build the stab and elevators.
HH%%
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John,
I must have missed it somewhere, are you doing removable wings with the carbon tubes? Same Idea I have been playing with. HOw do you plan on retaining the panels?
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Yeah Mark, the entire plane will be a take apart. Both wings come off, and then split into two pieces. The CF tubes will carry the load as the load on biplanes are right in the middle of the wing. The mount that connects the top wing to the cabane strut holds both halves of the wing from coming apart.
The bottom wing has a pair of long tabs. You can see them in the laminated parts. They have an area at the front that come together with a large circle cut out and bolt holes on each side. These long tabs are attached to the underside of the wing. When the two bottom halves are slide together on the CF tubes, they make the complete lower mount assy. At this point, the small end of the tabs fit into slots at the trailing edge of the wing, and the front slips up into the fuse area, and is captured with the landing gear mount.
I figure I could use the same method for a mono wing model, and it should be simpler to implement than some of the other systems out there.
I'll make sure that I take a lot of pictures of this system for those that are interested. H^^
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LOVE IT!!!!!!! ;D
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Thanks to all who have taken the time to make comments. You help me keep focused on the build, and you are appreciated.
Today I'm posting pictures I took while glueing the Stab and Elevators parts together.
It's a typical Warren Truss style construction, with one significant difference. Notice the center section. I had to use a spacer under it to bring it to the proper relationship to the rest of the stab. The Stab and Elevator are designed to remove completely from the fuselage, so there're holes for 2 bolts through the center section. I am using a few lightening cut outs in the center section to try and lesson the slight extra weight that making these parts removable may add.
Once the Stab and Elevator were framed up, I installed the top and bottom 1/16" plywood reinforcement center pieces. Then the 1/16" thick outer balsa pieces to bring the center section up to grade.
The parts have only been rough shaped at this point, I'll install the hinge slots next. It's extremely important that these be properly aligned, and it's easiest to do theis before final shaping. I'll also drill the holes for the horn now, for the same reasons. I've decided to not use horn clips, instead, I'll use 1/8" x 1/4" sq. brass tubing which will give me the same effect as Lucky boxes. A little allowance for possible flap horn side to side movement helps smooth out the controls.
Total weight for the Stab and Elevators, at this point, 1.4 oz's.
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Looks like fun, John. The multi-piece center section looks like it's difficult to align, but seems you have it.
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It just took a couple of short pieces of 1/8" music rod.. :!
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I'll be watching this.
The 2 Bits looks good as a plan, so it must look good built up too H^^
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John
You show all those ARF cats the error of their ways. y1
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I searched through the entire house and shop, and could not find the various sized rods I use to shape flaps and elevators. Soooooo, after flying with Gordy Norm, and Jimmy this morning, I managed to get to the hobby shop to pick up some new rods. The LHS didn't have anything over 1/4" dia., so it was over to Home depot to pick up a 3/8" dia. rod.
Since the Stab and elevators are made from 3/8" thick balsa, I knew I was going to need 3 rods to shape the trailing edge of the elevator. A 3/8" dia. rod to guage the hinge area, where I didn't want to remove any material. I placed it tight up agianst the elevator leading edge.
By placing the 1/4" dia. rod up tight to the trailing edge of the elevator, I am able to form a taper from 3/8" at the leading edge, by removing 1/8" of material from the trailing edge.
Now, by turning the elevators over, and substituting a 1/8" dia. rod at the trailing edge, I can now finish the taper on the other side of the elevators.
I know many reading this are familiar with this technique, but I've included the brief discription, and a few pictures to illustrate the idea, for those who may just be learning how to do this.
The sanded stab and elevators, now weigh 1.05 oz's.
I'll start the wings next. H^^
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Looking good. There are some of us that have to keep relearning things. Thanks, H^^
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Oh the joy, I dug the wing jig out of the storage shed, and found that a couple of the standoffs were damaged when something fell or got too close to them. Nothing serious, but it took a little time to reset them.
I quite like my wing jig. I have a dowel jig I used to use, but this newer one using the aluminum standards is much nicer to use. I built a base for it some years ago that allow easy adjustability so almost any type of wing can be built on it.
So first I scraped off the little glue dots left from the previous build. I cut out the wing plan from the plans so I could use it as a reference while installing the ribs.
A bit of tape on the paper keeps it lined up to the stanchions, and a bit of wax paper taped over the paper should help keep those glue dots from causing problems with the next build.
One of the most important considerations when using this style if wing jig, is to get the wing supports in level and squared up.
To accomplish this, I generally start from the center of the trailing edge, by setting the height first at that location. I next set the last, or furthest out board stanchion clamp height. It's most easily done by using a straight edge, and a level. Once the straight edge shows a level bubble, when stretched between the center stanchion clamp and the outer one, it's easy to slide the upper clamps up to sit tightly to the straight edge.
For the leading edge, you can use a level from the center stanchion clamp to the front center clamp. When it shows level, the rest of the setup is similar to what you've already done.
I stripped the 1/8" rib supports, and clamped them into the stanchion clamps
Eyeball it to assure it's all stright.
Using a right angle to keep the ribs properly aligned, you can no set them into place. I haven't glued them yet as I find I must do a little bit of work with the slots so they match up the ribs properly.
Enough for tonight. H^^
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Lookin' good, John! Keep on truckin'! #^
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Looks good John. Jigs are great even if they do take time to set up. Didn't get the jig right on the King Sweep and am now paying for it. H^^
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I managed to get some more work done on the wing yesterday.
The trailing edge was built up, and the sheeting installed. I put some shear webbing to help take any stress, around the CF tube. After looking at the large spans of unsupported leading edge, I added some half ribs. After all this, I removed the wing half from the jig, trimmed where needed, and sanded where needed.
I still need to form the leading edge sheeting, but I'm thinking of using Bob Hunts method using a small formed leading edge. The jury is still out, but I should have it figured out today.
Weight at this point is 1.75 oz's.
Here are the pictures.
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So, yesterdays tasks were to figure a way to form the leading edges, and build the other half of the wing so I can install the leading edges, tips and such, before starting on the lower wing.
I decided that since it was going to take some time for the formed leading edges to dry, that I should concentrate on them first, so I can build the other wing half while they are drying.
I mentioned yesterday that I was considering using Bob Hunts method of forming the leading edge caps vs building the bucks to form the entire leading edge in one step.
While looking through my stash of stuff for something that might be of use to accomplish the task, I came accross some of those preformed balsa leading edges. These were stashed away because they were very heavy, and hard. Unsuitable for use in anything other than a sport design.
I checked the shape agianst the root rib nose to see if they were even close. They were an almost perfect match. Problem solved.
I had to make a trip to the store for some Saran Wrap, and some Ace bandages. I wanted to wrap the heavy balsa pre-formed leading edge bucks so they would not suck in the moisture and swell up, altering the shape. I also found that the old style Ace Bandages are gone, having been replaced with something similar, but having the tendency to stick to its self. It turns out that this stuff works well for our purposes.
After cutting a 4" wide sheet of balsa to end up with 2, 2" wide pieces, I soaked them in the bathtub, in hot water, for about 5 miinutes, and then placed and wrapped them onto the forms.
While they were drying, I started building the other half of the wing. I was most concerned that the two halves line up properly with the tubing I was using.
It took less than an hour, and the wing was ready to try joining. Turns out it went perfectly.
the weight, at this time for the wing, is 3.8 oz's
Here are some pictures of what I did last night.
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Todays progress is interesting. I first made note of the changes onto the plans, so I can update them after the build is finished. I also spent the time to actually make the changes in many cases.
I installed to leading edge cap, sheeting, and basically finished one wing half. The weight of that half is 3.3 oz's, but I still need to hollow out the tip blocks.
The last picture shows the almost finished outboard wing, connected to the half finished inboard wing.
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You're in the zone! It's going together fast. BW@
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Like another person I know, you make it look too easy. LL~ LL~ Still looking great tho. D>K
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Update for May 19 2011. 2 days before the end of the world, some say.
I finished up the inboard wing, by installing the leading edge cap. I've found that it takes careful sanding of the reinforcing strip, at the nose of the airfoil, to get a good fit. I also found that centering the cap, and gluing it down the center to that reinforcment strip is good practise.
I've taken a bunch of pictures illustrating the processes leading to a finished panel. I expect to use many of these for a construction guide some time in the future.
The last picture shows the framed up top wing, joined. the legnth is 51.25 inches, and the current weight is 6.7 oz's without the tip blocks being hollowed yet.
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Thanks Ty, let me know if you want a set of plans for the Adjustable jig base. It does make seting up for different wings a lot eaier. H^^
Today, I hit a milestone in the build. I've finished both the wings with the exception of needing to shape the flaps. The bottom wing came out a little bit lighter at 5.8 oz's.
I've joined the wing panels to the cabane and tip struts using the bolts and screws that will be used for the final assembly. The weight of all these joined parts is 14.6 oz's.
Here are some pictures of where I'm at currently.
After the flaps are shaped, I'll be starting the fuselage.
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John, this is amazing so far I can only, no I know I will be in awe of the finished ship! ----LOUIE H^^ H^^
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Yes I do John, but the dimensions would do.
Here's a few PDf's that show the dims and such for the jig base.
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Great thread John.
Something not directly related but relevant none-the-less, can anyone tell us why some pics display directly in the discussion when we click on the thumbnail and others open a new window showing just the pic?
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Who now supplies the aluminium angles like the ones that used to be made by 95th Squadron?
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Geoff, I don't know who picked up the production of these fine standoffs that were produced by Aero 95th. Squadron in Colorado. Someone with some time, and a mill, can easily make them. I did draw up the parts, just so I'd have them.
Ty, de nada, Chief
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Of course, I'm out of hard wood motor mounts, so I tripped on over to Home Depot to see what they had I might be able to use. I was hoping for hard maple stock, but none in the house. I wound up with Red Oak stock. They cut down nicely into the proper sizes, but I'm left with a question. Has anyone a good reason why I should not use the Oak pieces for motor mounts? HIHI%%
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Has anyone a good reason why I should not use the Oak pieces for motor mounts? HIHI%%
None. Just pay extra attention to any potential extra oils or resins in the wood that could effect adhesion. Cut those babies up, and hit them with a denatured alcohol etc., just to make sure.
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Thanks for the note about using the Red Oak motor mounts. I'll wipe them off with denatured alcohol berfore gluing them into the motor crutch.
Sunday being my B'day, I kinda took the day off, but today, I hollowed out the wing tips. all four of them. I epoxied in 1/2 oz of tip weight in each out board tip, before gluing the tips back on. Managed to get 1 oz of tip weight total into the wings, and didn't gain any weight from before the tips were hollowed.
I tapered the flaps, and test installed them into the wing. I like the shape of the wing with the flaps on. Sort of a modern elyptical planform equivelent.
Here's a few pics from todays work. H^^
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With the wings framed up, flaps tapered, and stab and elevators framed and shaped, It's time to start the fuselage. finally.
I started today with constructing the motor crutch. I decided to use the Stalker .61RE.
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Todays tasks were to prep the fuselage sides, set up the fuselage jig, and begin construction of the fuselage proper.
Prep work on the fuselage sides consists of joining the pieces neede to fill out the fuse, since it's pretty deep, and 5" wide balsa wasn't available.
I then needed to add the tail doublers. Not every one uses them, but I like them for a number of reasons, not the least is the ease of making the access hatch for the elevator horn.
I have been using rare earth magnets to keep the hatch closed for several years, and no longer have to worry about losing that small screw in the grass when I need to make an adjustment at the field. I've taken a few pictures of the technique I use, for those3 who might find the idea appealing.
To prep the fuselage jig, I cut the top view of the fuselage from the plans, and tape them to the base of the jig. Cover with wax paper, and the jig is ready to use.
Since the 2 Bits Bipe is a wide body stunter, I use an inner nose assembly, that is spaced and the fuselage is built around the outside of theinner nose/ motor crutch assy.
I had the center lines for all fuselage bulkheads etched in, so I could have a good shot at getting the fuselage straight, front to back.
Notice the angled bulkheads aft of the wing. It really helps stiffen up the aft fuse without adding a lot of extra weight.
The last few pictures show the fuse in the jig. Tomorrow, I'll be removing it from those constraints, and start the exacting assembly of the parts that interlock, and hold all the parts together. It might take a few days to make sure all is properly aligned, but I'll take the time because it's the heart of the entire system.
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That is quite a project. H^^
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I made some more progress today. I removed the framed up fuselage from the jig, and spent some time working on the bottom wing saddle. I made up the bellcrank mounts, but did not install them as there are other items that need to be installed before they go in. Besides, I need to get hold of Jim Snelson and see if he has horns I can use.
I did install the gear/wing mounting pad. as well as the receiver for the trailing edge of the wing. The strap like objects will be mounted inside the lower wing skin, and the bottom boxed in to match the fuselage. In practise, the tabs will lock into the pockets at the trailing edge of the fuse cut out. The flap horns remain with the fuselage, but the arms will slip into the flap pockets when the tabs become seated. The front area strap will be sandwiched in between the mount, and the landing gear. That should hold the wing in securely.
I installed the base for the stab, but have not yet drilled the 1/8" dia. holes for the registering dowels.
I couldn't stand it any longer, so I test fit the wings to the fuselage in the last 3 pictures.
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It's been 3 weeks since I started gluing parts together. I'm pleased with the progress so far. The weight seems to be about where I want it so far at this point, all the parts assembled are less than 28 Oz's. I've yet to assemble the turtle deck, nose decking, cowl, landing gear, bottom of the fuse, and install the controls. I'm shooting at a final weight of about 60 Oz's.
I fitted the lower wing, permanently installing the mounting system, and building up the underside to match the bottom of the fuse, when finished. I first laid out the alignment lines so I could make sure the fuse and wing were aligned properly. I also made sure the wing was installed level.
The attached pics show the process. I needed to rework what you see in the last picture because the bottom under the wing wasn't quite straight enough.
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Continuing along, I've installed the mounting for the removable stab-elevator. The upper portion of the aft. turtle deck removes, and allows the stab and elevator to be removed. The pictures show the techniques used to accomplish this.
I test fit everything so far, weighed it, and took a picture.
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So, you stayed home to build instead of going to the Regionals? Smart move, it seems.
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As it worked out, it was far better than camping out at the field, in the rain. I've done that some years past. darn tent leaked too. Miserable time it was. The real reason was lack of funds. I love being retired, but it really has caused me to have to tighten up the belt at times.
Glad to see you got home OK. Probsbly just in time before the webs between your toes dried up. LL~
Hope to make the NW at a later contest this year. I look forward to seeing you guys again. H^^
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I've found I must slow down and wait for some control parts, but figured I could install the aft turtle deck, vertical stab, and rudder. It now becomes clearer how I plan to make the stab and elevator removable. The pictures show the process pretty well.
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I reinstalled the wings to get a total weight for where I'm at currently. Turns out it all weighs in at 29.10 Oz's as it sits in the pictures I've attached.
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You are not ready for paint yet? LL~ LL~ Hey it is looking great. Also you are further ahead than I am on my project. H^^
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It sure is nice being able to take the plane apart to work on specific areas. It's especially nice when working on the fuselage.
I'm still awaitung the control horns, so I cannot close it up, but I can work on the nose area. I installed the top nose blocks, and the cowl. After shaping, they look pretty good, and the plane is starting to look like the design on the plans.
As it sits assembled with the engine, tank, and muffler, the weight is 49 oz's, but no hollowing has been done on the nose blocks, and cowl. I still feel good shooting for the mid 60's with this plane.
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Still looking great. I also like the nice work area. I don't feel so bad about my area now. H^^
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Still looking great. I also like the nice work area. I don't feel so bad about my area now. H^^
I have a rule, I only clean the building board once during a build. That's after the plane is framed up, before I start the finish.
VD~ S?P %^@
OK. OK. I looked at the pictures, and it's hard to see the details amongst the mess. So, I cleaned the bench some, (Moved things so they're out of the shot.) and took 3 more pics. Hope this shows the plane better.
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Maybe it's just the photo, but it looks like there is a bit of positive AOA on the lower wing in that side shot. Could be the angle.
Looks good, John. I suspect it will be fun to fly.
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Thanks Randy, it does appear that way doesn't it? I haven't yet set the incidences yet, so it may be so.
I'm hoping that it will indeed be fun to fly. H^^
I just checked with the incidence meters. There is about 1.5 degrees of positive incidence currently. I will set the wings at 0-0 before I fly the plane, and then work from there. Interestingly enough, many of the published Biplane stunters had different incidences in the wings. I may have to go re-read those articals. H^^
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Maybe it's just the photo, but it looks like there is a bit of positive AOA on the lower wing in that side shot. Could be the angle.
Funny, I was going to mention the same thing.
This plane looks great, John! I love the wing shape and the fuse lines. Can't wait to see it at a contest. Maybe Golden State?
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Today was one of those days where it seemed the phone was either ringing, or I had to go somewhere with some one. So, I didn't get as much done as I hoped.
I did get the Applecheeks done, and mounted. I think they add character to the design.
Tomorrow, I plan on making a canopy plug so I can mold the one I need for this plane.
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Another day like yesterday, lot's of stuff going on, but, I did get the canopy plug made. I'll likely pull the canopy tomorrow.
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How did you prep the plug?
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A thorough sanding with 320, and cleaning it with a tack rag. Since I will only pull one canopy (?) I won't seal the wood. If I wind up pulling more, I'll seal the wood with epoxy, the kind that dries hard, and smooth.
I wound up spending most of the day visiting Gordan, so the canopy may not get finished until tomorrow. Z@@ZZZ
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I couldn't help myself. It took a few minutes, but here's my ex soda bottle canopy, sitting in place.
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We've got to get you some clear bottles John. :##
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Wayne,
I was thinking the same thing.
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John, how is Gordan's hearing? He said it went out while driving to Eugene. I saw a Viagra ad on TV that said if Gordan's hearing or vision is affected, he should stop taking that stuff! Tell him I said hi, and that it was nice to see his flying is better than his walking. My walking isn't so good either, but then neither is my flying. LL~ Steve
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What, they make clear bottles?
Since the trim scheme includes transparent green, I thought the green canopy would be appropriate. I've got to pull another one because I failed to notice where the fine printing on the bottle was, and wound up with them prominently displayed on top of the canopy. I'm sure no one else has done this though, another one of my many "firsts'.
Gordan did not mention anything about hearing loss. Probably couldn't equalize the air pressure as he descended to lower altitude.
His foot problem seems to plague him a lot. He made the observation yesterday, that he's "finally learning to fly good, and now everything is falling apart".
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Hi Steve,
I heard that. But didn`t see a thing.
Gordy
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I took the almost framed up model to Gordan's house over the past weekend, and during discussions, we discovered that the Stab and Elevator were rather small. A bit of quick figuring gave us a percentage of wing area equalling about 16%.
I decided that based on all the talk, I should build a new one of about 20-24%. Ye4sterday, I built the new tail feathers, and thought it might be interesting to see what the difference of 16% and 22% look like.
I've yet to build the landing gear, wheel pants, install the controls, and make a bunch of incidence changes, before I can close it up.
I did temporarily install the rest of the top block, so I could fit the canopy.
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I am glad you did that. That was my only question when looking at the plans "is that tail big enough?"
Are you going to finish them both for flight test?
I love this plane. Maybe I will get started on mine after the Nats. ;D
Derek
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Yeah, I'm also glad I did it. I nprobably will finish them both up. It'll be useful beinbg able to compare the two I think.
I'm really happy I designed in all the removable, and adjustable features. We've already figured how to build and fit more wing area to easily compare different wing loadings.
When you do decide to start yours, give me a shout, I've made several changes, with a few more coming based on what I've discovered with this build. Let me replace the set of plans you have, with a new set with the changes gleaned from building this one. H^^
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John,
Are you going to make the final plans available for sale? I'd sure order a set if you do.
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Yes indeed, I hope to have the finished plans, complete with pattern sheets, and possibly a laser cut short kit available in the future. Thank you for asking Will. H^^
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Yeah, I'm also glad I did it. I nprobably will finish them both up. It'll be useful beinbg able to compare the two I think.
I'm really happy I designed in all the removable, and adjustable features. We've already figured how to build and fit more wing area to easily compare different wing loadings.
When you do decide to start yours, give me a shout, I've made several changes, with a few more coming based on what I've discovered with this build. Let me replace the set of plans you have, with a new set with the changes gleaned from building this one. H^^
I certainly will. I cant wait for flight reports...... #^
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Looks like a big difference in the stab/elevator areas. Tell Gordon growing old sucks. I get one thing fixed and something else happens. I tell the doctor I think he is just moving the pains around to stay in business. The right knee was killing me while driving as you can not use cruise control pulling a trailer.
The 2 Bits Bipe is getting some character to it. I like the cheek cowls. H^^
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Thanks John. Yes, growing old does suck, but I believe it's better than the alternative.
I agree on the character, I wasn't sure about a few design items, until they were in place. I especially like the way the curves of the cheeks support and compliment the nose shape. I've added a pilot that somewhat resembles me, but I've got to change the beard to white since mine has lost all color in the last few years.
A few pics to illustrate.
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I see a slight resemblance. H^^
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Let's face it, guys, looking at green shoots of grass is a lot prettier than looking at the dirty roots! ~^
Looking forward to the short kit and plans, John!! y1 #^
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While I'm awaiting the arrival of the control system, I'm basically stopped on finishing the fuselage any further. So, I've been working on the finishing of the wings and tail feathers, using 'kote finishes. I've posted pics in the painting and finishing forum as I go.
I did just finished making a forming press so I can lay up my landing gear. I can now make up the gear, which will consist of carbon tow sandwiched between layers of 1/32 birch ply. This will be the first time I've done this for gear, but I did a lot, less the carbon fiber to make snow skis for my planes when I lived in Wisconsin.
I'll post pictures as I go along. H^^
Rather than a new post, I'll attach the first pics of the gear forming to this post.
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Is the gear very rigid? H^^
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The jury is still out on rigidity. It's plenty strong enough, but there's an initial amount of springiness, then it gets pretty rigid. It's at least as rigid as wire gear thopugh. If it doesn't work out, I can always go to Dural, or straight CF gear.
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The jury is still out on rigidity. It's plenty strong enough, but there's an initial amount of springiness, then it gets pretty rigid. It's at least as rigid as wire gear though. If it doesn't work out, I can always go to Dural, or straight CF gear.
I've trimmed gear to shape. The rigidity did not change, even though I took about 1/3 of the material off. It weighs in at 1.5 Oz's. I'm not sure how that compares to CF or Dural gear of the same size, and configuration, but it seems reasonable.
I'll post pictures later as I'm involved in another project at this time.
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I had Gordan and Jimmy take a look at the hybrid landing gear. We all came to the conclusion that it is plenty stiff enough. So, We made up the control horns so I can finally install the control system, after which, I'll close up the fuselage. I started the wheel pants and have included pics of the parts prior to construction.
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While I'm awaiting the arrival of the control system, I'm basically stopped on finishing the fuselage any further. So, I've been working on the finishing of the wings and tail feathers, using 'kote finishes. I've posted pics in the painting and finishing forum as I go.
I did just finished making a forming press so I can lay up my landing gear. I can now make up the gear, which will consist of carbon tow sandwiched between layers of 1/32 birch ply. This will be the first time I've done this for gear, but I did a lot, less the carbon fiber to make snow skis for my planes when I lived in Wisconsin.
I'll post pictures as I go along. H^^
John why not straight carbon? What is the advantage of the birch plys with the carbon? I assume using the birch plys would be easier to mold.
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That didn't take too long. The wheel pants are constructed, and shaped. Of course, it will need some additional sanding, and perhaps some hollowing to remove a little weight. As they are now, the pair, as pictured, with wheels and axles, weigh in at 1.75 Oz's. With the hybrid gear at 1.5Oz's, brings the unfinished complete gear package in at 3.25 Oz's. #^
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John why not straight carbon? What is the advantage of the birch plys with the carbon? I assume using the birch plys would be easier to mold.
You've got it. I needed a simple method of using easily obtainable materials to make a custom landing gear set. It may actually be possible to dispense with the CF completly, but I didn't have the nerve, and was able to get ahold of some CF from Gordan. Once the press is made, it's easy to make these type of assemblies, relativly inexpensivly. They should be durable, I know they took a lot of abuse when I made snow skis for my planes. 100's of flights with no sign of problems. y1
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They should be durable, I know they took a lot of abuse when I made snow skis for my planes. 100's of flights with no sign of problems. y1
Sounds like your absolutely right because, you've got yourself a dandy composite. And, we know just how strong they can be.
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Hey John:
What kind of glue did you use to laminate the gear ?
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Hey John:
What kind of glue did you use to laminate the gear ?
Hi Allen, I used 30 minute epoxy.
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John,
That looks like 3 layers of 1/32 ply and 2 layers of carbon tow. Is that correct?
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Almost right, only 1 layer of Carbon Tow. I like the idea, it frees me up to different looks as far as the gear goes. I'll likely do this again with slightly different shapes. H^^
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Last weekend, I went over to Gordan's, where we made the flap and elevator horns. I was busy with another project until Thursday this week, so it wasn't until then that I was able to install the controls.
The flap horn is permanently mounted in the fuselage, with the flaps plugging in as the bottom wing is attached. I was also able to set up the center cabane mount, so the center of the upper wing is now supported.
Soon, I'll have the pushrods complete, and I'll be able to close up[ the fuselage, and begin the finishing process on the fuse.
I'll take some pictures of what I've recently done, and post them later.
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Been workin' on the controls today. I took a few pictures. It shows the Cabane mounting.( it is removable.) and a few pics of the Bellcrank and pushrods mounting.
Tomorrow, I'll install the tail wheel, and close up the fuselage.
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Today's chores were to build the tail wheel mount, and install it, close up the fuselage, Set up the controls, and assemble the plane and check out weights.
I used a tail wheel mounting method I've seen Norm Whittle use, that makes the tail wheel removable slick as a whistle. It also makes mounting much easier as well.
The plane was assembled, and with all parts, weighs in at 64 Oz's. A little heavier than I wanted. With just the fuselage left to finish, my goal is to apply the lightest finish I can. I really do not want to go over 70 Oz's.
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Isn't it painted yet? LL~
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Isn't it painted yet? LL~
I know, I'm falling behind. I hope to have it ready for test flights before the 15th. of July. Bart is visiting Gordy and will be heading back to AZ. after that date. It would be great to have him and Gordy doing the test flying. They can tell things about the plane in flight, a lot easier than I can.
#^ H^^