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Author Topic: Show me your stick!  (Read 2578 times)

Offline Avaiojet

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Show me your stick!
« on: November 13, 2017, 02:56:34 PM »
I've decided, with much reluctance, to use a stick at the tip of the inboard wing on my biplane design for my leadouts.

Yes, the wing is extremely swept back.

I've never done a "stick" before.

So please, if possible, Post a photo of your model's wing tip stick.

Material used? And I'm guessing there's a means for adjustment?

Be interesting to see what you have?

Thanks in advance.

CB
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Offline TDM

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Re: Show me your stick!
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 04:06:20 PM »
Well I prefer to keep my stick in my pants.  LL~ That came out the wrong way   HB~> LL~
OK most likely you will have piece of 1/8 plywood with a slot in it for lead out wires. For cosmetics reasons I would add apiece of balsa on the fuselage side top and bottom of the stick above and below the slide. After you get the lead-out position finalized you can go ahead and put a piece of decorative tape to cover the slot.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Show me your stick!
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 05:02:44 PM »
Quote from: Traian Dorin Morosanu on November 13, 2017, 04:06:20 PM
Well I prefer to keep my stick in my pants.  LL~ That came out the wrong way   HB~> LL~
OK most likely you will have piece of 1/8 plywood with a slot in it for lead out wires. For cosmetics reasons I would add apiece of balsa on the fuselage side top and bottom of the stick above and below the slide. After you get the lead-out position finalized you can go ahead and put a piece of decorative tape to cover the slot.

Traian,

Hey! Funny guy. But I gave you the line.  LL~

The bellcrank is in the wing.   

I'll take a really good look at the model and see if I can put it in the fuselage.

Thanks for the reply.

Charles
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: Show me your stick!
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 06:04:08 PM »
The black one is my son's plane, it's not adjustable. The white one is a baby bi-slob, also not adjustable. However, both designs would be extremely easy to integrate some adjustability in the "stick", much as Traian said.
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Show me your stick!
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 07:15:15 PM »
Quote from: Dane Martin on November 13, 2017, 06:04:08 PM
The black one is my son's plane, it's not adjustable. The white one is a baby bi-slob, also not adjustable. However, both designs would be extremely easy to integrate some adjustability in the "stick", much as Traian said.

"Great" Dane,

Wow! I didn't know the Bi-Slop had flaps on both wings? Did you do that or is this how the model was designed.

Nice clear shots, thank you for that.

My application is a bit different, my stick will be horizontal and sticking out of the tip at the leading edge.

Thanks for the reply.

Charles

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Online Howard Rush

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Re: Show me your stick!
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 09:47:40 PM »
How about a chevron shaped thing, rather than the vertical slab connecting your wings?  The point in the middle could be forward of the wings. 
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Offline Ara Dedekian

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Re: Show me your stick!
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 01:04:18 PM »


       Works well. It's adjustable and I can thread the leadouts out throught the large hole to remove the wing.

       Ara
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Offline Trostle

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Re: Show me your stick!
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2017, 05:21:31 PM »
Quote from: Avaiojet on November 13, 2017, 02:56:34 PM
I've decided, with much reluctance, to use a stick at the tip of the inboard wing on my biplane design for my leadouts.

Yes, the wing is extremely swept back.

I've never done a "stick" before.

So please, if possible, Post a photo of your model's wing tip stick.

Material used? And I'm guessing there's a means for adjustment?

Be interesting to see what you have?

Thanks in advance.

CB

Hi Charles,

I have two profile scale models.  One is the XB-47D and the other is the Russian Tu-95 Bear.  Both full size aircraft are powered by turboprops.  The CG on both models is slightly behind the wing center section TE and the leadout guide needs to well forward of the tip LE.  For static display, there is no leadout guide.  For flying, there is a 1/16" dia. wire ("stick" in your parlance) that plugs into the tip LE  is shaped and has loops bent in the wire to hold the leadouts in the proper position, both in terms of lateral and vertical CG position of the models as both models have anhedral.  The wire is soldered to a thin brass metal sheet "cuff" that fits over the wing LE at the tip and is bolted into place to hold the guide in place.  I was concerned that the wire would not be stiff enough to hold the leadouts in place, particularly with the Tu-95 where the wire is about 6" long.  Evidently, there is no noticeable vertical or side loads on that wire as this approach has worked satisfactorily on both models.

I have tried to post pictures to show the details on how these wire extensions work, but have not yet been successful.

Keith
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Show me your stick!
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2017, 05:41:57 PM »
Quote from: Trostle on November 18, 2017, 05:21:31 PM
Hi Charles,

I have two profile scale models.  One is the XB-47D and the other is the Russian Tu-95 Bear.  Both full size aircraft are powered by turboprops.  The CG on both models is slightly behind the wing center section TE and the leadout guide needs to well forward of the tip LE.  For static display, there is no leadout guide.  For flying, there is a 1/16" dia. wire ("stick" in your parlance) that plugs into the tip LE  is shaped and has loops bent in the wire to hold the leadouts in the proper position, both in terms of lateral and vertical CG position of the models as both models have anhedral.  The wire is soldered to a thin brass metal sheet "cuff" that fits over the wing LE at the tip and is bolted into place to hold the guide in place.  I was concerned that the wire would not be stiff enough to hold the leadouts in place, particularly with the Tu-95 where the wire is about 6" long.  Evidently, there is no noticeable vertical or side loads on that wire as this approach has worked satisfactorily on both models.

I have tried to post pictures to show the details on how these wire extensions work, but have not yet been successful.

Keith

Keith,

You have some really great models there. Are they still around today?

Those models have wings similar to mine.

Let's put that "stick" wire or whatever issue behind us, for a moment.

Here's my question:

Just run the leadouts through the wing and out at the tip. Will the model fly and be controllable if this is done?

Charles
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If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Trostle

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Re: Show me your stick!
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2017, 11:02:47 PM »
Quote from: Avaiojet on November 18, 2017, 05:41:57 PM
Keith,

You have some really great models there. Are they still around today?

Those models have wings similar to mine.

Let's put that "stick" wire or whatever issue behind us, for a moment.

Here's my question:

Just run the leadouts through the wing and out at the tip. Will the model fly and be controllable if this is done?

Charles

Charles,

Yes, those models are on the wall with the several other models built for the Tucson 1/2A multi-engine profile scale contests.  The B-47, 39" span,  was built earlier for a contest in Los Angeles (the Black Sheep Squadron), then it flew at the 2000 Nats in Profile Scale where it placed 3rd. It has two Norvel .049's.  The Tu 95 has four Norvel .061's, 56" span.  Both to 1/36 scale.

Now, to your question about just running your leadouts through the tips.  Go back several posts on this thread.  The CG of the airplane determines where the leadouts MUST be, even if it is inconvenient to NOT put them through the wing tip.  If the leadouts are behind the CG in an extreme way, the model may fly but it will yaw seriously to the outside of the circle, it will put the leadouts in a serious bind and the model may be uncontrollable, even if it gets off the ground.

For your model, the leadout position at the wing tip should be maybe 3 or 4 degrees behind the CG position.  You might be able to use slightly less, like 2 degrees, but 3 or 4 degrees will be safe.  For scale/sport flying, that would be adequate.  Only when you are looking for refined response/maneuverability for stunt flying would you want to experiment with less line rake.  If you are using a throttle and anticipate a lot of taxi maneuvers and slow flight, you might want to have slightly more line rake.

As I explained earlier, the Tu-95 has the CG slightly behind the wing TE at the center section and the leadout guide holds the leadouts about 6" in front of the tip LE edge.

Keith
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